Deke Shaw

[Cranberry]

Any Deke discussion encompassing multiple episodes goes here rather than in the episode threads. Thread subtitle suggestions welcome, but they must be neutral -- this is neither a fan thread nor a hate thread.

[Raja]

58 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

 

What did Deke "sacrifice" though? Are you watching a different version than the one being aired?

At the end of season 5 episode 10 Past Life Enoch has the mission to get to the controls of Fitz's time machine. Only it had been damaged and to work Enoch had to sacrifice his life as well as all life around him would be incinerated at some extremely high temperature. However Enoch needed cover from the Kree mercenaries trying to stop him to have the time before his sacrifice. In the end Deke made the ultimate sacrifice staying with Enoch to give him the time to repair the machine and  hit the on switch. In any national army if someone survived to write that after action report Enoch and Deke would be awarded posthumously a Medal of Honor, Victorian Cross a Légion d'honneur etc.

That he survived due to the plot armor of the story doesn't take away the ultimate sacrificial act he took in the story anymore than you can take away Tony Stark's heroic ultimate sacrifice  role in The Avengers when he ride a nuke into space. In Stark's case   there must have been plot gravitonium around Iron-Man because somehow gravity worked on him to bring him back to earth  so he survived his ultimate sacrifice just as Deke survived the ultimate sacrifice with the plot armor of a small shard of monolith to send him back to his grandparents time.

In neither case did the hero expect a supernatural force to break their know scientific laws  for them to survive but they stood and fought anyway. Tony Stark could have flown away from the nuke and continue the playboy life from somewhere other than New York City and Deke could have sneaked down to another level and continued to visit his Framework will the small community was allowed to live to raise potential Inhumans. Even if the viewers, but not the protagonist knew that there was no hiding from the ultimate fate, of slavery under Loki and Thanos coming in Stark's case or Kassius liquidating his Inhuman farm in Deke's case

[TVSpectator]

But Deke never died and instead was transported to the past, he sacrificed nothing. Instead, his quality of life probably doubled because he was living not in the Lighthouse anymore. Instead, we are stuck with a slaver from the future living in the present that has very little knowledge on what is going to cause the Earth to explode. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by TVSpectator

[Raja]

37 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

But Deke never died and instead was transported to the past, he sacrificed nothing. Instead, his quality of life probably doubled because he was living not in the Lighthouse anymore. Instead, we are stuck with a slaver from the future living in the present that has very little knowledge on what is going to cause the Earth to explode. 

That wasn't the plan, thus he stepped forward to make the sacrifice just like Stark in New York and Rogers at the SSR training and assessment camp. In all three cases they each made the sacrifice, in two cases they were supernaturally saved and the third it was just a test.

[TVSpectator]

20 minutes ago, Raja said:

That wasn't the plan, thus he stepped forward to make the sacrifice just like Stark in New York and Rogers at the SSR training and assessment camp. In all three cases they each made the sacrifice, in two cases they were supernaturally saved and the third it was just a test.

Stark and Rogers never sold people into bondage for money. Deke is a scam bag that never scarifice anything.

[Raja]

1 minute ago, TVSpectator said:

Stark and Rogers never sold people into bondage for money. Deke is a scam bag that never scarifice anything.

But see one of the heroes of Thor,Valkyrie did and she was not protecting the innocent people of her level either. It was just money for her feeding victims to be killed by the Hulk.. Off screen so  Black Widow was an assassin, on screen so was The Winter Soldier Bucky Barnes under Leviatian and Hydra control. Tony Stark sold weapons to all comers before finding his path, Scott Lang was a thief along with Luke Cage before turning to good.  Deathlok went along with centipede Hydra before turning to good .....

Besides what he did in the past has does not take away the fact that he was willing to sacrifice his life for everybody else. He was willing to go all the way. As his grandmother said he was moving in the right direction 

[Lobsel Vith]

7 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

But Deke never died and instead was transported to the past, he sacrificed nothing. Instead, his quality of life probably doubled because he was living not in the Lighthouse anymore. Instead, we are stuck with a slaver from the future living in the present that has very little knowledge on what is going to cause the Earth to explode. 

Absolutely. Unlike Trip and Andrew, who actually gave their lives, Deke gave up nothing. We've also heard him denigrate Daisy for being upset about being enslaved (his words) and he told Fitz he was impressed by being held hostage while Fitz brutally tortured a woman in front of him. He's still coming across as rather repugnant.

[blueray]

Deke planned on sacrificing himself when he stayed with Enoch. He (and everyone else) had no idea that it would blast him to the past. I think that it would have been a better fitting ending for the character. Instead he is still there. While I'm not in the group that completely hates him, he is serving no purpose right now other that taking up screen time. I wish that they made him one of the likeable characters, instead of how they wrote him. Anyhow, hopefully he'll get a moment to sacrifice himself, and not become another love interest of Daisy. I still want her to end up with Robbie.

[Affogato]

57 minutes ago, blueray said:

Deke planned on sacrificing himself when he stayed with Enoch. He (and everyone else) had no idea that it would blast him to the past. I think that it would have been a better fitting ending for the character. Instead he is still there. While I'm not in the group that completely hates him, he is serving no purpose right now other that taking up screen time. I wish that they made him one of the likeable characters, instead of how they wrote him. Anyhow, hopefully he'll get a moment to sacrifice himself, and not become another love interest of Daisy. I still want her to end up with Robbie.

It is possible he is a marker so we will know whether or not the future is changed.

If not, assuming it isn't changed, he is going to be useful.

[TVSpectator]

4 hours ago, blueray said:

Deke planned on sacrificing himself when he stayed with Enoch. He (and everyone else) had no idea that it would blast him to the past. I think that it would have been a better fitting ending for the character. Instead he is still there. While I'm not in the group that completely hates him, he is serving no purpose right now other that taking up screen time. I wish that they made him one of the likeable characters, instead of how they wrote him. Anyhow, hopefully he'll get a moment to sacrifice himself, and not become another love interest of Daisy. I still want her to end up with Robbie.

 

3 hours ago, Affogato said:

It is possible he is a marker so we will know whether or not the future is changed.

If not, assuming it isn't changed, he is going to be useful.

Deke is pointless and not useful even now. He claims he doesn't really know how the world ends, only that he believes that Daisy was involved. So, he really doesn't know a lot of things (and it seemed that he really didn't know who his grandparents were until he spent a while in the present time. Because when he was living in the Lighthouse hanging out with Daisy, Simmons, Fitz, Coulson, May, Mack, etc... he never once bothered to notice that Simmons and Fitz were his grandparents. It wasn't until the hint was dropped that he mentioned that his mother having the same ring as Simmons that lead Hale to even do a DNA test and she found out that he was related to both Fitz and Simmons).  Maybe he is a marker/bellwether to see if the future is changed but honestly I just don't see the writers killing him off because he is Fitz and Simmons grandson (which does upset me that they won't do it) but I can also see the writers saying that the future was changed but somehow Deke gets to stick around. Which would, IMO, having it both ways, again but I won't be surprised at all if it does happen.  

[Ceindreadh]

On 20/4/2018 at 4:55 AM, TVSpectator said:

Stark and Rogers never sold people into bondage for money. Deke is a scam bag that never scarifice anything.

Question. When Deke sold Daisy, wasn’t he still under the impression that she was the person responsible for destroying the world and killing millions if not billions of people?  And now she was there and going to cause trouble in the present day.  

 

As for sacrifice, Deke did not have the advantage of watching the next episode and knowing that he was going to survive.  When he stayed with Enoch he thought he was going to die.  The fact that he didn’t die doesn’t negate the fact that he did put his life on the line.

How many other times have members of the team put their lives at risk for others? Does it not count because they didn’t get killed or injured?

[Lobsel Vith]

10 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

Question. When Deke sold Daisy, wasn’t he still under the impression that she was the person responsible for destroying the world and killing millions if not billions of people?  And now she was there and going to cause trouble in the present day.  

Deke, at first, blames Daisy, and then says it was likely a parallel universe version of her due to the Many Worlds Theory of quantum mechanics. He didn't sell Daisy into slavery thinking she was responsible for destroying the world, and given his flip-flop justifications for doing so (that change depending on who he's speaking with), he clearly did it for the money.

10 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

As for sacrifice, Deke did not have the advantage of watching the next episode and knowing that he was going to survive.  When he stayed with Enoch he thought he was going to die.  The fact that he didn’t die doesn’t negate the fact that he did put his life on the line.

Doesn't make the move any less hollow on the part of the writers when MoC like Trip and Andrew had actual deaths and this was done simply to try and handwave Deke selling a person into slavery. One single action also doesn't absolve him of being a slaver.

10 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

How many other times have members of the team put their lives at risk for others? Does it not count because they didn’t get killed or injured?

They didn't sell people into slavery for money, so it's never going to be the same. Deke isn't Trip, he isn't Mack, he isn't Joey, he's a guy who sold Daisy and emphasized how he expected some serious compensation from Kasius, and then sided with Coulson when he realized he might be able to speak with his father. Deke being a slaver is always going to be an issue for some people, which is why he never should have been brought over to the cast in the first place.

Honestly, we could have had another character who was morally grey, perhaps someone who helped Daisy when she's enslaved as opposed to selling her into slavery (which would make the future "comedic scenes" less awkward since they would not involve a slaver), perhaps even having this character oppose or kill Deke. A man of color would've been interesting given how little Trip, Andrew, Joey, and even Robbie received in comparison to their white counterparts (Deke, as a recent example), and it would've made the character having feelings for Daisy much less awkward without the slaver issue, not to mention it's currently coming across like this show has an inability to try and pair her with someone who isn't a white male (which is a bit ridiculous when you consider that she was involved with Miles, Ward, and Lincoln in less than two years of the show being on the air). Romance aside, someone who actually helped the team would've made sense as someone they would take with him, as opposed to the person who betrayed them by selling one of their own to Kasius (which basically makes the crew bringing him along in the first pod completely nonsensical).

A lot of things simply don't work with Deke because his involvement in selling someone into slavery is always going to be the primary issue with the character, and not everyone is willing to handwave that.

[CTrent29]

I really have no problems with Deke.  Considering how Daisy was acting like a bull in a china shop on that space station, I would have betrayed her myself.  I can't believe that Coulson views her as the right person to succeed him as the next SHIELD director.  Good grief!

[Lobsel Vith]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 7:03 PM, CTrent29 said:

I really have no problems with Deke.  Considering how Daisy was acting like a bull in a china shop on that space station, I would have betrayed her myself.

And yet no one comments on Fitz trying to speak to Simmons when he could have easily been overheard, how he suggests at one point to Enoch that they simply "shoot [their] way out", that he again tries to speak with Simmons despite the risk of being overheard, and that he had no real plan. It's odd how only Daisy is criticized, and not Fitz. And it becomes a huge issue for me when the reason for criticizing Daisy is to justify slavery.

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 7:03 PM, CTrent29 said:

I can't believe that Coulson views her as the right person to succeed him as the next SHIELD director.  Good grief!

While I can't believe anyone would ever support a man selling a woman into slavery.

[Ceindreadh]

Deke turned in a potential rebel/deemed criminal to the authorities of an invading force and received a financial reward for it. He should be condemned as a collaborator rather than a slaver (as there’s no evidence that he was in the business of selling people on a regular basis). 

[kitlee625]

My big problem with Deke’s character is just how damn inconsistent he is. In 5a he was this morally dark, only out for himself, cynic; however, by 5b he’s this silly, socially awkward goofball who just wants to hang with his Nana and Bobo, tag along with the SHIELD agents like he’s Scrappy Doo, and gush about how pretty Daisy’s hair is. It’s like - what show is he in? Why are the writers treating his awkward high-schooler crush on Daisy with the same gravitas as The End Of The World?

[Raja]

26 minutes ago, kitlee625 said:

My big problem with Deke’s character is just how damn inconsistent he is. In 5a he was this morally dark, only out for himself, cynic; however, by 5b he’s this silly, socially awkward goofball who just wants to hang with his Nana and Bobo, tag along with the SHIELD agents like he’s Scrappy Doo, and gush about how pretty Daisy’s hair is. It’s like - what show is he in? Why are the writers treating his awkward high-schooler crush on Daisy with the same gravitas as The End Of The World?

Well they had a crushed skull bleeding on the floor and a decapitation, at the end of the latest Hydra emergence arc, hence comic relief to break the tension would have to be provided by someone 

[TVSpectator]

13 hours ago, Raja said:

Well they had a crushed skull bleeding on the floor and a decapitation, at the end of the latest Hydra emergence arc, hence comic relief to break the tension would have to be provided by someone 

Making the only character ever seen on the entire show's run that sold someone into slavery into the comic relief isn't a great idea, in my opinion. If they made Deke into some kind of scruffy but actually likable character (that didn't work with his alien overlords, sold people into slavery, and almost got the population of the Lighthouse killed/wiped out by his Kree bosses) would've been different and much better. Also, trying to form some kind of romance story with Deke and Daisy (the woman he literally sold into slavery) is so wrong on many levels. And it's not an edgy wrong like watching and enjoying Rick going about killing the entire Council of Ricks or  Walt poisoning a kid and Jess freaking out about it or even watching Evil Morty returning to take over the Citadel, but like a deep down, "what were they thinking and this is wrong in many ways" type of wrong. 

On 4/25/2018 at 4:53 PM, Ceindreadh said:

Deke turned in a potential rebel/deemed criminal to the authorities of an invading force and received a financial reward for it. He should be condemned as a collaborator rather than a slaver (as there’s no evidence that he was in the business of selling people on a regular basis). 

He wasn't a rebel/criminal but instead actually worked with them in the past. He even admitted to it as well that he did other jobs for Kaisus  (the Kree that literally controls the Lighthouse and also runs the Kree Watch) before he met Daisy from time to time. 

 

13 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

My big problem with Deke’s character is just how damn inconsistent he is. In 5a he was this morally dark, only out for himself, cynic; however, by 5b he’s this silly, socially awkward goofball who just wants to hang with his Nana and Bobo, tag along with the SHIELD agents like he’s Scrappy Doo, and gush about how pretty Daisy’s hair is. It’s like - what show is he in? Why are the writers treating his awkward high-schooler crush on Daisy with the same gravitas as The End Of The World?

In my opinion, it's the writing and all of the characters have been written in an inconsistent manner, in my opinion. I don't know if they have an idea of who Deke is other than he is the future grandson of Fitz and Simmons. At times I wonder if he was supposed to be the "lovable rogue" character (like Han Solo was in the first Star Wars Trilogy) or is he the comic relief character?

On 4/24/2018 at 8:12 PM, Lobsel Vith said:

And yet no one comments on Fitz trying to speak to Simmons when he could have easily been overheard, how he suggests at one point to Enoch that they simply "shoot [their] way out", that he again tries to speak with Simmons despite the risk of being overheard, and that he had no real plan. It's odd how only Daisy is criticized, and not Fitz. And it becomes a huge issue for me when the reason for criticizing Daisy is to justify slavery.

While I can't believe anyone would ever support a man selling a woman into slavery.

Yeah, Fitz has a history of just making things worse for himself and for others as well. What I find baffling is that not only people are forgiving Deke but they are shipping them together and are actually not only fine with it but rooting for it to happen. In many ways, this is how many people are just willing to forgive Fitz for all of the shit he did/helped to caused and still think he is some kind of "kind and gentle" person when he was never that either. 

On 4/22/2018 at 11:55 PM, Lobsel Vith said:

Doesn't make the move any less hollow on the part of the writers when MoC like Trip and Andrew had actual deaths and this was done simply to try and handwave Deke selling a person into slavery. One single action also doesn't absolve him of being a slaver.

They didn't sell people into slavery for money, so it's never going to be the same. Deke isn't Trip, he isn't Mack, he isn't Joey, he's a guy who sold Daisy and emphasized how he expected some serious compensation from Kasius, and then sided with Coulson when he realized he might be able to speak with his father. Deke being a slaver is always going to be an issue for some people, which is why he never should have been brought over to the cast in the first place.

3

 I say that it would've been better if someone like Flint or Tess came back into the past. I really don't need to have a DNA connection to any of the main characters to even start to like those characters better than Deke. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by TVSpectator

[kitlee625]

22 hours ago, Raja said:

Well they had a crushed skull bleeding on the floor and a decapitation, at the end of the latest Hydra emergence arc, hence comic relief to break the tension would have to be provided by someone 

That’s kind of my point. The majority of the show is so dark, so grim, so gruesome, and then there’s Deke over in his B plot (or maybe it’s more like C or D plot) acting like he’s a character in a high school rom-com where the geeky homeschooled nerd just wants the popular cool girl to like him. I’d rather the writers even everything out rather than have the show jump between totally different stories/tones.

[Proteus]

I loved Dekes scenes with Coulson & Mack and them telling him they know he's in love with Daisy.

I hope they show him put the lemon in her bunk.

The show has done a good job developing his character.

[Miles]

8 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Selling someone into slavery for money is never "the right thing". And this is why I find the incorporation of Deke into this show so infuriating. We've literally come to the point where some in this fandom are defending slavery.

If my life depended on it I would sell your behind faster into slavery than you could look. Hell I would sell my behind into slavery before being killed.

 

8 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Deke has veered between blaming Daisy for his actions (in dialogue with Daisy) and alternatively using his childhood and upbringing as an excuse (in dialogue with Coulson and May). I'm not inclined to do what the SWW fandom did and handwave Deke's actions for the same reason those folks handwaved Ward's atrocities - which was using his past to whitewash everything he did in the present. Characters like Tess, Ben, and Flint grew up in the Lighthouse the same as Deke, and none of them decided to sell people into slavery or work for Kasius.

Selling out one person you don't know very well to safe yourself and the rest of the humans in the lighthouse (remember out heros were getting a looooooot of people killed) is a hell of a lot different than all the murders Ward commited.

[Lobsel Vith]

5 hours ago, Miles said:

If my life depended on it I would sell your behind faster into slavery than you could look. Hell I would sell my behind into slavery before being killed.

I continue to find the pro-slavery defense reprehensible and disgusting.

5 hours ago, Miles said:

Selling out one person you don't know very well to safe yourself and the rest of the humans in the lighthouse (remember out heros were getting a looooooot of people killed) is a hell of a lot different than all the murders Ward commited.

It wasn't about saving anyone - Deke used that justification to vilify Daisy when she called him out on selling her into slavery, but he also used another justification in his conversation with May and Coulson. Let's not pretend that Deke's excuses are even consistent; what we do know for sure is that, in conversation with Kasius, he emphasized that he expected to be paid quite a bit for selling Daisy to him.

We also know, from Deke's recent conversation with Fitz, that he has no guilt about selling Daisy into slavery, as he held it against her that she was still upset about it.

[TVSpectator]

7 hours ago, Miles said:

Selling out one person you don't know very well to safe yourself and the rest of the humans in the lighthouse (remember out heros were getting a looooooot of people killed) is a hell of a lot different than all the murders Ward commited.

4

Deke said it was because of the money. Not saving anyone nor his people. Just him (literally) selling out to his alien overlords (like he mentions he did in the past on other occasions) and also wanting more money. 

2 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

We also know, from Deke's recent conversation with Fitz, that he has no guilt about selling Daisy into slavery, as he held it against her that she was still upset about it.

 

All I am asking is why are they even bothering with Deke and his supposed "romance" story with Daisy? 

[Ceindreadh]

4 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

Deke said it was because of the money. Not saving anyone nor his people. Just him (literally) selling out to his alien overlords (like he mentions he did in the past on other occasions) and also wanting more money. 

All I am asking is why are they even bothering with Deke and his supposed "romance" story with Daisy? 

Isn’t it a thing that most of the guys have to fall for Daisy at some point?  Has there been any season where she didn’t have somebody mooning over her? 

Guess Dekedrew the short straw. 

[Lobsel Vith]

3 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

Isn’t it a thing that most of the guys have to fall for Daisy at some point?  Has there been any season where she didn’t have somebody mooning over her? 

Guess Dekedrew the short straw. 

Not really. Mack didn't. Trip didn't. I do notice a similar trend with the men who do show a romantic interest in her, though (Miles, Ward, Lincoln, S1 Fitz, and now Deke).

[Froippi]

3 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Not really. Mack didn't. Trip didn't. I do notice a similar trend with the men who do show a romantic interest in her, though (Miles, Ward, Lincoln, S1 Fitz, and now Deke).

I have watch season 1 quite a bit and I have never got that feeling Fitz had this thing for Daisy as many people claim not sure where you all our getting this from 

[Lobsel Vith]

10 hours ago, Froippi said:

I have watch season 1 quite a bit and I have never got that feeling Fitz had this thing for Daisy as many people claim not sure where you all our getting this from 

The fact that Fitz is clearly attracted to Daisy in the premiere episode of the series? That he tries hitting on her in the episode after her betrayal is revealed, where he tries to suggest that the two of them have a lot in common? His irritation that she only kisses him on the cheek in T.R.A.C.K.S. when they're pretending to be a couple? Look, I get that the show paired Iain and Elizabeth together (and I know some fans hate admitting that either character had feelings for anyone but Fitz and Simmons for some reason), but both actors made it clear that they were playing their roles as brother and sister for almost the entirety of season one, and the episodes were written as such until the writers responded to the FitzSimmons fan base, so let's not veer into this weird place where we pretend that Fitz and Simmons never had feelings for anyone but each other when the show has repeatedly contradicted this claim.

[Froippi]

25 minutes ago, Lobsel Vith said:

The fact that Fitz is clearly attracted to Daisy in the premiere episode of the series? That he tries hitting on her in the episode after her betrayal is revealed, where he tries to suggest that the two of them have a lot in common? His irritation that she only kisses him on the cheek in T.R.A.C.K.S. when they're pretending to be a couple? Look, I get that the show paired Iain and Elizabeth together (and I know some fans hate admitting that either character had feelings for anyone but Fitz and Simmons for some reason), but both actors made it clear that they were playing their roles as brother and sister for almost the entirety of season one, and the episodes were written as such until the writers responded to the FitzSimmons fan base, so let's not veer into this weird place where we pretend that Fitz and Simmons never had feelings for anyone but each other when the show has repeatedly contradicted this claim.

Honestly idc either way was just saying I never saw if I got my way their would be no ships at all

[Lady Calypso]

On 09/05/2018 at 6:49 AM, Lobsel Vith said:

Not really. Mack didn't. Trip didn't. I do notice a similar trend with the men who do show a romantic interest in her, though (Miles, Ward, Lincoln, S1 Fitz, and now Deke).

I thought that, last season, they were going to pair Daisy and Robbie together, so most of the guys (not all, but definitely most) have at least been hinted that they could explore romance there, and it has happened every single season. I do think these shows tend to follow a similar trend, where their young attractive single female must have some romantic moments with a guy every season, as if it's vital to the character or something. So, with the whole Deke/Daisy stuff, it's super dumb, but it also feels thrown in for some reason. If Deke does disappear at the end of this season, as he probably should, there was no point to this romantic arc except to get Deke stuck in a shitty role when they could have made steps to redeem him as a character, to show his growth as he learned about this new world and realize that his actions in his time isn't accepted in ours. If there wasn't heavy budget cuts, we could have seen Deke explore the outside world and get a taste of that before he hopefully disappears. Deke could have been an actually interesting character, if not for them half assing things for most of the season, but especially once they got back from the future space timeline. 

And I do like Jeff Ward and think he's a good actor, so I want to like Deke more than I do right now. 

[Lobsel Vith]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I thought that, last season, they were going to pair Daisy and Robbie together, so most of the guys (not all, but definitely most) have at least been hinted that they could explore romance there, and it has happened every single season.

The showrunners have said they were originally going to pair them up, but that they changed their minds. While I do like the idea of them (I thought CB & GL had chemistry), I think that it was too soon after Lincoln’s death to pair her with anyone.

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I do think these shows tend to follow a similar trend, where their young attractive single female must have some romantic moments with a guy every season, as if it's vital to the character or something. So, with the whole Deke/Daisy stuff, it's super dumb, but it also feels thrown in for some reason. 

Aside from this being the fourth white guy (after Miles, Ward, and Lincoln, all of whom were in a relationship with her, albeit the one with Ward was short-lived), I’d have preferred to see Daisy paired with a woman or man of color for some variation (I mean, if we simply count attraction and include Fitz, Deke is the sixth white guy to want to get together with Daisy).

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

If Deke does disappear at the end of this season, as he probably should, there was no point to this romantic arc except to get Deke stuck in a shitty role when they could have made steps to redeem him as a character, to show his growth as he learned about this new world and realize that his actions in his time isn't accepted in ours.

I mean, this show isn’t always the best with that. Fitz and Simmons didn’t address their newfound differences in season two, the show simply sidestepped it with the Real S.H.I.E.L.D. crisis. In season three, they agreed to reboot their entire relationship, making everything that came before (including the Will dilemma) redundant since they wouldn’t address it. Fitz became the Doctor, but he was instantly forgiven after they left the Framework, so crossing those moral lines was pointless (making him a part of the resistance could’ve easily had him become proficient with firearms and make some tough choices without turning him into a Nazi).

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

If there wasn't heavy budget cuts, we could have seen Deke explore the outside world and get a taste of that before he hopefully disappears. Deke could have been an actually interesting character, if not for them half assing things for most of the season, but especially once they got back from the future space timeline. 

And I do like Jeff Ward and think he's a good actor, so I want to like Deke more than I do right now. 

Budget cuts don’t really explain some of the questionable writing choices, though. Had the whole slavery angle been relegated to another character, the entire problem with Deke would’ve been better resolved. Viewers could enjoy Deke’s moments in the present without wondering why he’s even with the team when there was no reason to bring him along.

While I have no issue with Jeff Ward, I honestly would’ve preferred seeing another MoC (after five years, Mack is the only one who has gotten long-term storytime and screentime). After Trip, Andrew, Joey, and even Robbie’s single pod appearance, it would’ve been nice.

Even the crush on Daisy would’ve come across less redundant.

[TVSpectator]

On 5/10/2018 at 8:15 AM, Lady Calypso said:

I thought that, last season, they were going to pair Daisy and Robbie together, so most of the guys (not all, but definitely most) have at least been hinted that they could explore romance there, and it has happened every single season. I do think these shows tend to follow a similar trend, where their young attractive single female must have some romantic moments with a guy every season, as if it's vital to the character or something.

 

 

I thought pairing Daisy and Robbie together would be a terrible idea. I mean why does Daisy need another forced romance? Especially since the entire reason why she even found out about Robbie/Ghost Rider was her going rogue over Lincoln's death. That, IMO, would've felt too weird and forced. I mean it would be like her having a mental break, leaving SHIELD because of it, and then hooking up with someone else. They kind of did it back in Season 3 with Simmons which I wasn't a fan of because it felt so disjointed and forced (not only that but it made Simmons look like she never really cared about Will but the show now has, IMO, disowned that relationship and/or forgotten about it and moved on/retconned it away). And I really didn't care that the writers were being told to hook them up, everyone was talking about how they hated seeing Fitz's pine over Simmons (and I was one of them), we're trying to set this up since at least late Season 1/Season 2. It just felt like something that didn't belong in that storyline and it suffered from it.  Not only that but Daisy and Robbie really didn't have anything to bond over with. They were basically two people who found each other and ended up fighting each other (sort of like a cheaper/weaker Daredevil and The Punisher rooftop scene or even the Graveyard scene) and this show doesn't need any more couples. God, there are so many couples/pairings on this show alone. Not only that but this show seems to be full of them (more so than those generic procedurals about cops, nurses, doctors, EMTs, fireman, etc...) and they all kind of feel forced and inorganic including Fitz and Simmons' relationship. 

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So, with the whole Deke/Daisy stuff, it's super dumb, but it also feels thrown in for some reason. If Deke does disappear at the end of this season, as he probably should, there was no point to this romantic arc except to get Deke stuck in a shitty role when they could have made steps to redeem him as a character, to show his growth as he learned about this new world and realize that his actions in his time isn't accepted in ours. If there wasn't heavy budget cuts, we could have seen Deke explore the outside world and get a taste of that before he hopefully disappears. Deke could have been an actually interesting character, if not for them half assing things for most of the season, but especially once they got back from the future space timeline. 

And I do like Jeff Ward and think he's a good actor, so I want to like Deke more than I do right now. 

 

 

On 5/10/2018 at 1:05 PM, Lobsel Vith said:

Budget cuts don’t really explain some of the questionable writing choices, though. Had the whole slavery angle been relegated to another character, the entire problem with Deke would’ve been better resolved. Viewers could enjoy Deke’s moments in the present without wondering why he’s even with the team when there was no reason to bring him along.

While I have no issue with Jeff Ward, I honestly would’ve preferred seeing another MoC (after five years, Mack is the only one who has gotten long-term storytime and screentime). After Trip, Andrew, Joey, and even Robbie’s single pod appearance, it would’ve been nice.

Even the crush on Daisy would’ve come across less redundant.

 

The writing is just terrible on this show. I don't understand why they decided to make Deke a slaver and also one who likes to work with the same people that had his mother dragged and killed because she was supposedly one of the smarter humans in the Lifehouse. I mean if they were going with some kind of "nuanced" it totally failed, IMO, with this character. Not to mention that they have also ruined a bunch of other characters but Deke is like a culmination of like why this show sucks, IMO. If his purpose on this show is to act sort of like a canary in the coal mine 

Spoiler

(or the one and probably the only one that Thanos' Snap will dust)

then please just get rid of him now. He is useless 99% of the time that could've been better devoted to more interesting stuff/actual character development.  If they had better writers they could've shown that working with the Kree isn't great but necessary but the whole selling people into slavery was a big mistake, IMO. Pretty much how do you go back from that and how do you "fix" that character? Even if he thinks nothing is wrong with it he would shortly find out that his viewpoints are wrong, or at least not held by many people during this time period. Also, I fee like his suddent attractionness to Daisy probably has more to do with shippers/fanbase than anything else, IMO. 

Edited May 11, 2018 by TVSpectator

[swanpride]

I don't get why the other characters are always so mean to Deke. Yeah, he can be a pain in the butt, but how often has he helped them by now?