S03.E21: Anything Pierce Can Do I Can Do Better

[CheshireCat]

2 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

It's not Tom, it's the writers. Cain's storyline could have been interesting, but they made it into a love triangle. The same thing can be said about Lucifer's wings and Devil face. They made it in to a 5 min. quest and then constant wining from Lucifer, oh, woah is me. Some say it's because it is being aired on 9PM instead of 10PM, so they can't go dark, but, um, I really doubt that in this day and age channels care about friendly content when they have ESRB-esque ratings for the show (i.e., this show is suitable for x age group).

I don't think it's the air time. Do they even know when a show airs when they start outlining the new seasons in May/June?

I think it's because they needed to involve Chloe and the rest of the "uncelestials". Lucifer, wings, devil face and Cain would have been plenty enough to carry the season and they could have been really interesting stories and there is so much potential for all of it. But since Chloe and Co don't know the truth what role would they have played? None, really. They wouldn't have been needed. So, they came up with this twisted thing about Cain/Pierce and Chloe and now Chloe is "needed" (even if she's not).

This show doesn't need mortals to work and have stories to tell. They decided to have mortals in there which is fine but the mistake is to keep them in the dark and to give Chloe an important role but not exploring it. For some reason it seems that they're going against the show's nature. The natural center of the show is Lucifer and it seems like they're trying to make it Chloe but it does not work because it's not the show's nature.

[Damselfly]

On 24.4.2018 at 7:49 PM, tennisgurl said:

Dr. Linda being awesome is always a win, and I loved when she called Lucifer out on his tendency to use his daddy issues as an excuse for everything.

I'd be happy to have her calling him out if it wasn't so glaringly obvious that this was done only to further the Deckerstar relationship.

That is also one of the big pet peeves I have with Linda: a psychologist should not be pushing their patient towards a relationship. Especially a patient with such deep-seated relationship and abandonment issues. And especially when there are a lot of factors that make this relationship even more potentially difficult than a normal human relationship.

[thuganomics85]

A week later and I finally get around to this.  This isn't good, folks!  I hate to say it, but this could very well mean I will end up being done this season.  And I was someone who loved last season to death.

Seriously, I'm used to bad seasons or shows even going to shit, but the biggest offense here is that this show is so dull about it.  Sure, shows like, say, Arrow, The Flash, and Once Upon a Time have disappointed me hard this year, but I at least felt something, even it was rage.  This?  I feel nothing.  Lucifer and Pierce devolving into squabbling, lovesick children over Chloe (who I honestly enjoyed until this season) is ridiculous, but it is also just dull.  I don't care about it.  Nor do I care about Maze's pissy attitude.  Or Charlotte freaking out after knowing the truth.  I just don't care, anymore.  It's really sad.

At this point, I vote for Lucifer to just let Chloe/Pierce be, and he goes off on a night in the town with Linda and Dan, since they're the only two I don't hate.  Well, there is Trixie too (when they use her), so maybe somewhere family friendly?  But I really feel bad for Tom Ellis, because his talents have just been squandered this year.

[Mabinogia]

36 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

But I really feel bad for Tom Ellis, because his talents have just been squandered this year.

Me too, And Rachael Harris (Linda) is much better than this. I haven't seen the others in other things, other than Tom Welling years ago in Smallville and Lauren German in Hostile, neither of which impressed me much. But really, at this point all of them deserve better. 

I often wonder, when a show goes this far off the rails, what the cast thing. I mean, I don't expect them to publically say anything against the show, they all seem classier than that, but do they see what we are seeing? Or are they too close to the material? Does Tom Ellis like that Lucy has become an adolescent boy over Chloe, does Lauren German love that two immortals are fighting over her dull as dirt character? Do the others like being pushed aside for this stupid triangle? Do they all still think this show is the gem it was in season one? 

Obviously the writers/producers think what they are doing is great or they wouldn't be doing it, but I can't help but wonder about the actors, because this Castle with angels crap isn't what they signed on for. 

[Miles]

On 29.4.2018 at 7:53 PM, CheshireCat said:

But since Chloe and Co don't know the truth what role would they have played? None, really.

The easy fix would have been to let her know the truth. You can only keep the status quo for so long without turning the show to shit. That was even a problem on Castle, without all the supernatural baggage, where they contrived ever new stuff to keep him and Becket apart.

 

On 25.4.2018 at 8:39 PM, Mabinogia said:

I would much rather Cain proposed to Lucy to be honest.

At least that would be hot.

[Peace 47]

I’ve binged the entire show over a year after the fact (and really love it so much that this truly is my favorite show that I’ve seen in at least the past 2 years, maybe more).  Reading through this thread, I understand the frustration at the time with the dinking around / stalling with the whole Pierce situation (and his story, motivations and reactions never gelled for me beginning to end of season), but the beauty of Netflix is being able to skip to (or rewatch) the best scenes of the episode.

So that said, I thought that Lucifer’s romantic dinner for Chloe was a great scene, in that it was pretty emotionally devastating.  I thought Lauren German did a pretty great job of conveying with her eyes (even before the confrontation) what Chloe obviously wanted to hear:  that Lucifer wanted to be in a relationship with her.  Chloe was so flattered by the atmosphere and seemed to be almost excited in anticipating what Lucifer was going to say after he mentioned that he wanted to discuss their future.  And because Lucifer was still too reluctant (because of Dad’s plan, but also just because he is afraid of Chloe’s rejection), he hid behind the bravado of saying that he is just showing her that Pierce is sub-par.  But Chloe still pushes, trying to get Lucifer to say that he wants her.  And all he can muster is that she should be with “someone better.”  It was pretty heartbreaking. 

And then when Linda comes over to support Lucifer, I thought that was a great line when she asked him what he truly desired, and he looked so broken and vulnerable and said that he just wanted Chloe to choose him.  They put a lot of heavy lifting on Tom Ellis in this show, and he can really do it all.  His watery eyes as he admits what he really wants were very touching.  So I thought that those were two great scenes in this episode.

I think that the disastrous dinner was meant to help explain why Chloe said yes to Pierce—that she felt pretty sure after that dinner that there was just no future with Lucifer, and here is a straight arrow guy who cares about her and will be reliable, gets along with her kid, shares her passion for her work.  But Welling and German had zero chemistry, and Pierce’s character was too confused to sell this “side” of him.

[andipandi]

On 4/24/2018 at 6:58 PM, scarynikki12 said:

The Chloe I know and root for would have Maze's ass for hurting Trixie, and would NEVER date her boss (and likely be hesitant to date a colleague due to the Dan divorce-how I wish that were the reason she and Lucy aren't together as it's simple, straightforward, and understandable).

absolutely.

On 6/16/2019 at 7:30 PM, Peace 47 said:

So that said, I thought that Lucifer’s romantic dinner for Chloe was a great scene, in that it was pretty emotionally devastating.  I thought Lauren German did a pretty great job of conveying with her eyes (even before the confrontation) what Chloe obviously wanted to hear:  that Lucifer wanted to be in a relationship with her. 

'''

I think that the disastrous dinner was meant to help explain why Chloe said yes to Pierce—that she felt pretty sure after that dinner that there was just no future with Lucifer, and here is a straight arrow guy who cares about her and will be reliable, gets along with her kid, shares her passion for her work.  But Welling and German had zero chemistry, and Pierce’s character was too confused to sell this “side” of him.

I am binging also but season 3 is like a rollercoaster. Some good eps, but some where the plot seems recycled. It's reminding me of later Remington Steele even, trying so hard to keep the couple apart with plot bricks that change character behavior, retcon the past, ignore the canon.

When they introduced Pierce as this great amazing lieutenant, obvious he was going to be the Big Bad. Then he was the Sinnerman. Then he wanted Lucifer to kill him. Then he was in love with Chloe. Then he gave her up. Now he's the Sinnerman again? It's like they couldn't make up their minds and put all the plot ideas into a mixer. Maze too.

I give German and Ellis all the credit for acting with their eyes, that dinner scene, because I did like that, but all the mopey pathetic Lucifer just no. Why can't Chloe tell Lucifer she cares about him, without him saying it first?

[Peace 47]

9 hours ago, andipandi said:

Why can't Chloe tell Lucifer she cares about him, without him saying it first?

I think she really couldn’t because of everything that went down in mid-season 2.  At that time, Lucifer and Chloe were about to start dating and take their relationship to the next level.  Chloe put herself out there and kissed him, and then from her perspective, he totally ghosted her for a few weeks, went out and got married to another woman, then finally waltzed back into her life and insisted that they were “just friends” and colleagues.  We the viewers got insight into why he felt he had to do that (even though he was pretty much completely head over heels in love with her), but for all she knew, he was too afraid of commitment to pursue anything further.  She had put herself out there, and he hadn’t reciprocated.

He needed to be the one to take that next step (and what I found so sad about the dinner scene in this episode was that he was so close to being able to do that and just fell disastrously short).  Only when Linda reframed his free will dilemma later in this episode (an entire year after he first faced the issue in S2) did he finally understand that Chloe could still freely choose to be with him (as he could with her).  But he was too late.  

[galaxychaser]

This episode was garbage. Most of the season is garbage. Why is Charlotte even there? Pierce can’t act. 

[Anela]

I've been catching up, and Linda is my favourite character.

I didn't know that was Tom Welling. I thought he looked familiar, but I didn't watch his show, when it was on, and I only know him from the odd article, or pictures from other actors.