S04.E07: Forgive Me This My Virtue

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Eleanor enlists Jasper’s help for one of her covert missions. Helena begins a new chapter at a royal event where the press attacks Willow. Cyrus meets an unlikely ally.

 

[EarlGreyTea]

Here I was, about to lament the wheels coming off Robert and Willow. But I should have known Robert better! Long may he wave! Early in the episode, I thought it was nice that Willow and Robert have apparently had sex, but since we didn't see their first time, I thought it was another hint that this show was not all in with this couple. Apparently not!

I think my problem with Kathryn is how extremely timid the actress plays her.  She looks afraid to even speak. I wonder if she was directed to play it as such, but it kind of grates. And they give the poor actress next to no lines. She really is just a walking prop. I was surprised they revealed her to be such a snake in the end because her earnestness was as annoying as Liam's. What on earth are they going to do with Liam now? She was his last viable love interest and storyline.

Peeved at how Liam saved the day with Willow. Goddammit, the propping of Liam over Robert has begun. Willow and Robert couldn't even get their big moment without having to share the spotlight. And the way Willow was staring at Liam for saving her - yeah. Knowing this show, Willow still loves Liam, and THAT will be when the wheels come off. 

I thought it was tacky for Liam to declare Robert the second-luckiest guy in the room. He can't be gracious for one moment, can he?  The whole thing came off as smarmy, particularly since he dangled Kathryn right in front of everyone. I'm peeved he was lauded as some PR genius by Helena. Speaking of, it range false that Willow was so ill prepared for her roll out.

Eleanor's Robin Hood storyline is too stupid for words.

And finally, I was really taken with Willow's subtle, cold dragging of Kathryn toward the end of the episode. She actually looked like a jaded, conniving ice queen. That one scene proved to me that she is as wily and clever as Robert, and that he has met his match.

Edited April 23, 2018 by EarlGreyTea

[twoods]

At least we get rid of Kathryn without Liam getting all mopey. Robert continues to screw with her, yet she keeps coming back. I was worried for a second that he would cheat on Willow.

Jasper and Eleanor continue to be so cute and supportive of each other. Who would have thought after how they started that they would be the most stable couple on this show?

I am liking this version of Cyrus very much. I hope he doesn’t revert back to his old ways.

Edited April 23, 2018 by twoods

[emjohnson03]

Gosh darn it, Max Brown is my bitch. Is that ok that I say that? Cause it's SO TRUE!! Holy mother, I want him in EVERY.SINGLE.SCENE.

Yes Willow you go cold on whomever you need to. But what was that getup they had her in at the first interview thing, nope! Take a cue from Meghan Markle to look both regal and still look age appropriate. That was not a good wardrobe choice. 

Also sex, also need more. Goodness, if Willow and Robert team up, they would be a force. Take note people!!!

Liam is so dry, my god. They need to just have the Robert show and let him do it all. 

I watch for Willow and Robert so I'm good. It won't end well for them I think, but I'm enjoying the ride. Ride it girl, ride it.

)*off to bed because I took Nyquill and I'm sad they killed off one of my fave characters in a Hallmark show! A Hallmark show!)

[Kaiju Ballet]

14 minutes ago, emjohnson03 said:

But what was that getup they had her in at the first interview thing, nope! Take a cue from Meghan Markle to look both regal and still look age appropriate. That was not a good wardrobe choice. 

It definitely underscored that she wasn't the sophisticate that Helena was, and was closer to the story that Helena was trying to create for her. Didn't Willow wear clothes closer to Helena's style when we first met her? And I agree that it seemed bizarre that Willow, who was so well-spoken in the press-conference that StalkerListCandidate saw, would let herself get rolled by the press like that.

2 hours ago, EarlGreyTea said:

I think my problem with Kathryn is how extremely timid the actress plays her.  She looks afraid to even speak. I wonder if she was directed to play it as such, but it kind of grates. And they give the poor actress next to no lines. She really is just a walking prop. I was surprised they revealed her to be such a snake in the end because her earnestness was as annoying as Liam's.

Yes, she was always so frightened-looking. I'd say it was out of character except she wasn't really given much of one to begin with.

37 minutes ago, twoods said:

I was worried for a second that he would cheat on Willow.

I was so relieved when it turned out to be Robert's plan and not that he was playing Willow. Although I would hope that Willow was let in on it, otherwise that could have gone so terribly wrong (although that might yet happen)

So...the Robin Hood thing. I was ok with it until this ep, when I see how it actually is a shitty thing to do. Aside from how stealing is wrong, one of the "bluebirds" could have lost her job over being accused of thievery. Certainly being reprimanded and then placed under scrutiny can't be pleasant for any of them. Also, as we see from the pen, these items could have historical value, not to mention be worth an exorbitant amount that could help a lot of people, not one.

The "Fight" with Jasper was disgusting --his attempts to forbid her from continuing her Robin Hood act, along with his daydreaming about having a normal life with Eleanor in a surburban house where she made his dinner and learned how to use a dishwasher (cute that she was so unfamilar with the machine). Even if she weren't a princess, Eleanor is still Eleanor, and attempts to change who she is fundamentally or deride what she's passionate about as naive are why I can't get behind Jaspenor, although it was nice that moment they shared hiding in the closet under the stairs.

The theme this episode seemed to be how regular life is not possible for a royal or their partners, and torturous for ex-royals. Helena understands that full well, as does Robert. Elizabeth Hurley and Max Brown were the MVPs this episode in what they brought to the characters--we're watching Helena hold onto her "Old Ways" relevance while making way for a new Queen who thinks she knows better, and Robert sold me not just on the reveal of Kathryn, but what he said to Liam afterwards. Dang, I wonder if the writing has improved because Mark Schwan is gone. I loved this episode!

I also teared at the speech Eleanor gave when she showed up with the pen. She's really evolved since we met her in the first season, while Liam has regressed.

[omgsowicked]

I was about to lose my mind over Robert "pursuing" Kathryn! I was so relieved that it was another trick of his. I didn't expect her to prove Robert right, that she really is easy. She's really pathetic, unable to resist the man who called her a common whore? Maybe that's why she was so effing boring, she really does suck. So what's Liam gonna do now? Actually evolve, more interaction with his family? No, probably spend more time with Willow, which will make Robert (more) suspicious. I was happy Liam and Willow talked but I'm worried they're going to make it romantic ~for the drama~. I liked them before Robert came back but now, forget about it! I thought William Moseley did a better job in this episode than usual, and it might have been the music playing but the scene where Liam and Kathryn talked covertly at the ceremony actually had some spark to it.

Argh, they keep skipping over these big moments with Robert and Willow! Now they're sleeping together? Well, at least we got to see a little more PDA this time. I found it hard to believe that she was so flustered, considering she was a social media manager (all about appearances) and not a lower class "commoner" (wasn't her first appearance at a country club, playing polo?), and yeah, she did just speak to the press like a pro. But I guess it's different when it's about you. We already had "deer in the headlights" types with Ophelia and Kathryn, so I would have loved it if Willow handled it better, even if there were a few missteps. I'm surprised there wasn't more training, and not just by the Queen. You'd think there would be a team, and that Robert would have gone over things with her as well. But yes, Willow was stone cold with Kathryn and I loved it. It makes me wonder if Robert told her about his plan to expose Kathryn... I hope so because it would pretty much prove to me that his feelings for her are true, letting her in on his deviousness. LOL. And also because it would be awful to find out your fiance was flirting with someone else, even if it was an act. So Robert was successful in interfering with Liam's "substandard" relationship but not Eleanor's.

Willow done goofed by using "old" around Helena... I'm sure if she grovels she'll get back into Helena's good graces but for now, it seems Willow has been iced out.

I skipped past a lot of the Eleanor/Jasper stuff but they did look really cute when they took back the pen from that couple. And I enjoyed Eleanor's speech at the ceremony.

Cyrus actually did love Simon? Alright.

[catrice2]

Of course I skipped some of it, but wasn't I right about being excited when Max Brown was announced?  Whether you are a Liam fan or not, it is difficult to deny that he has injected some life into this show.  I think I like his hair slightly longer. 

I hope this is the  last we see of Kathryn and I wish they would decide if we are moving toward the brothers being friends, or setting them up for another conflict  around Willow. 

Ugh to Jasper being a knight after he has slept with mother and daughter, and came there to steal.  The worst part was letting Eleanor have a relationship that girl when he knew that she was trying to steal from her?  And isn't he a hypocrite for accepting it from Robert? 

Who  thought Robert was going to "slip" with the sword and cut him a little?  Was Sebastian in the show tonight? 

So was Liam listening to the entire thing or just the last part?   What else has Robert taken from him?  What have I missed?  I don't think Liam really whined in the scenes I saw.  Hopefully Willow can hold her own with Robert and is not interested in going back to the kiddie pool. 

I don't really keep up....what are ratings like for this show and how does E! decide to renew?    

They do have the best music for scenes, I will give them that! 

Edited April 23, 2018 by catrice2

[phoenics]

Jean Claude vanDAMN - Max Brown is the shit, lol.

First of all - I was wishing and hoping he was playing Kathryn to set her up for a huge fall.  And damn I was right.  But - as per usual with Max Brown's portrayal of Robert, I was unsure until the very end - thinking it could go either way because of how good Max Brown is.  But when he didn't touch Kathryn back when she touched his face, I knew he was playing her.

Damn!

That was straight JR Ewing, Lucious Lyon, Chuck Bass RUTHLESS.

And the worst part?  He STILL had sick chemistry with Kathryn. 

I still don't know if his words to Liam are real, but I WANT to believe him!  LOL!  Gah I hope I never meet a man like that because I would be strung out on him even if he messed me over, lol. 

And Willow?  That edge she brought to her conversation with Kathryn?  I need THAT Willow.  Not this ingenue.  Maybe she'll have an adversarial relationship with Helena - one where she'll have to show some backbone.  I like Willow - but she can leave that innocent, wide eyedness at home and bring that spark we saw in her first interaction with Robert and then with Kathryn.  If they bring back QueenSkanky, she'll need edge to deal with her.

I couldn't be more bored with Jaspenor's storyline.

I hope for Helena/Willow conflict where Willow emerges as a bit of an operator herself.

Please NO to a Liam/Willow/Robert triangle.  NO.

And please, E!Gods - PLEASE give us a Season 5.

Oh - on rewatch, when Robert rolls over on Willow, he actually takes her wrist from his face and then presses it into the pillow - almost above her head.  

Lawd.

Also - Kate really is a piece of work.  She acted all innocent with Willow as though she didn't know that Robert and Willow would be on display at the event - when she sat in that limo with Helena who TOLD her and Liam that was the other point of the night.  She played innocent and then "let" Liam convince her to go when she really should have said no.  Willow saw right through her - just like Robert did.  I think she also wanted to hit back at Willow for her calling her out - and that also added to her reasons for going to Robert.  I'm so glad she's gone.

Oh - but it's kinda gross of the show to have Eleanor crediting Jasper for why she's a better person.  I'd think she was better in spite of him, not because.

The more I think about it - I think the show is setting Robert up as the Patriarch of the family - ruthless but everything he does is for the greater good of his family.  Like a mob boss with a heart?  If the show is to survive, I think this is the only way this can go.  It can't be about making Liam King, it has to be about the family and their "business" of the Monarchy and all of the drama therein.  Like Dallas or Dynasty - but for Royals.

[emmielane]

I don't want Willow to Ice Queen, we have enough of those like Cassandra, Helena, Cyrus, and Duchie. Why turn Willow into that kind of person, that is not her heart. This just proves more that her heart is a match to Liam's. Kathryn has now shown her true stripes, she wants the kingly not princely stripes on her loin-fruit... "oh i just can't wait to be a king;'s mistress."

Let Cassandra and Robert get themselves blown off the thrown, they can be each other's downfall... holla!!

Willow + Liam = Harmony, no jealousy, and peace I think.

Emmy Lany Is In My Ear & In My Heart,,,

[phoenics]

No one said anything about making Willow an Ice Queen.  I just want her to display a bit of a backbone and not go down the "earnest" route that has thoroughly destroyed the Liam character.  And honestly - having her run after Liam after all this time would be ridiculous.  Liam had how many chances to be with Willow - yet he kept throwing her over for silly blondes?

LOL.

Willow + Liam = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

This show NEEDS the drama and spark.  And that's what Robert has given it - thank God for Max Brown.

Also - funny how you're upset that Kathryn threw Liam over for Robert and that she was basically a user... but now you want poor Willow with a guy who never wanted her and kept rejecting her?  Why is it bad when someone treats Liam that way, but it's okay for him to treat Willow that way AND continue his sad streak of running after what his brother has?

In a few months is Liam going to be rewriting history and acting like Robert stole Willow out from under him even though he never paid her any attention before?

I love it that people are so riled up about Robert - love him or hate him, he's saved this show.

Edited April 24, 2018 by phoenics

[EarlGreyTea]

16 minutes ago, emmielane said:

I don't want Willow to Ice Queen, we have enough of those like Cassandra, Helena, Cyrus, and Duchie. Why turn Willow into that kind of person, that is not her heart. This just proves more that her heart is a match to Liam's. Kathryn has now shown her true stripes, she wants the kingly not princely stripes on her loin-fruit... "oh i just can't wait to be a king;'s mistress."

 

See, I think she can pull off both. It's clear she can be icy when she needs to be, but her true nature is soft. She, like Robert, seems to understand that being a royal means you need to have both a public and a private face. And frankly, this show has no idea to write sweet. Ophelia, Kathryn, and Greta were all "good" girls, but duller than dishwater. Their best female characters are good people with an edge - Helena, Eleanor, etc.

7 hours ago, omgsowicked said:

Argh, they keep skipping over these big moments with Robert and Willow! Now they're sleeping together? Well, at least we got to see a little more PDA this time. I found it hard to believe that she was so flustered, considering she was a social media manager (all about appearances) and not a lower class "commoner" (wasn't her first appearance at a country club, playing polo?), and yeah, she did just speak to the press like a pro. But I guess it's different when it's about you. We already had "deer in the headlights" types with Ophelia and Kathryn, so I would have loved it if Willow handled it better, even if there were a few missteps. I'm surprised there wasn't more training, and not just by the Queen. You'd think there would be a team, and that Robert would have gone over things with her as well. But yes, Willow was stone cold with Kathryn and I loved it. It makes me wonder if Robert told her about his plan to expose Kathryn... I hope so because it would pretty much prove to me that his feelings for her are true, letting her in on his deviousness. LOL. And also because it would be awful to find out your fiance was flirting with someone else, even if it was an act. So Robert was successful in interfering with Liam's "substandard" relationship but not Eleanor's.

I was totally waiting for there to be a scene at the end where Willow walks into the room and congratulate Robert for exposing Kathryn. It totally fits - her little chat  with Kathryn to set it up, with Robert knocking it down. Now that would have been badass.

Having said that, I wouldn't be all THAT surprised if Robert really did miss Kathryn. She was the one who inspired him to get off the island, after all. Nothing less than true love can inspire that kind of will. All his protesting cements it. The gentleman doth protest too much.

5 hours ago, catrice2 said:

So was Liam listening to the entire thing or just the last part?   What else has Robert taken from him?  What have I missed?  I don't think Liam really whined in the scenes I saw.  Hopefully Willow can hold her own with Robert and is not interested in going back to the kiddie pool.

I gave this a lot of thought all day (which I never did before Robert showed back up. I swear he singlehandedly saved this show). I'm thinking with Kathryn out of the way, it's going to free Liam up to pursue Willow. I really think this is where they're headed now. God save us from love triangles, but at least it's with someone interesting. And seeing as how Robert really has taken everything from Liam, Liam will probably end up with Willow in the end. I hope I'm wrong.

[phoenics]

6 minutes ago, EarlGreyTea said:

And seeing as how Robert really has taken everything from Liam, Liam will probably end up with Willow in the end. I hope I'm wrong.

Aargh - Noooooooo!

Besides - that would just make Willow as bad as Kathryn... and doom poor Willow to be stuck with Liam, when the more interesting character is Robert.  Unless the show is still determined to give everything to Liam in the end and leave Robert with nothing.  If the show gets a S5 - they CANNOT go this route.  The only way forward is to drop the triangles, get Liam his own story that doesn't involve snatching up his brother's leftovers, and move forward.

The show needs to get bigger, not smaller.

What kind of tribal rain dance do I need to do to make sure this show doesn't go down the stupid path?

[catrice2]

12 minutes ago, EarlGreyTea said:

See, I think she can pull off both. It's clear she can be icy when she needs to be, but her true nature is soft. She, like Robert, seems to understand that being a royal means you need to have both a public and a private face. And frankly, this show has no idea to write sweet. Ophelia, Kathryn, and Greta were all "good" girls, but duller than dishwater. Their best female characters are good people with an edge - Helena, Eleanor, etc.

I was totally waiting for there to be a scene at the end where Willow walks into the room and congratulate Robert for exposing Kathryn. It totally fits - her little chat  with Kathryn to set it up, with Robert knocking it down. Now that would have been badass.

Having said that, I wouldn't be all THAT surprised if Robert really did miss Kathryn. She was the one who inspired him to get off the island, after all. Nothing less than true love can inspire that kind of will. All his protesting cements it. The gentleman doth protest too much.

I gave this a lot of thought all day (which I never did before Robert showed back up. I swear he singlehandedly saved this show). I'm thinking with Kathryn out of the way, it's going to free Liam up to pursue Willow. I really think this is where they're headed now. God save us from love triangles, but at least it's with someone interesting. And seeing as how Robert really has taken everything from Liam, Liam will probably end up with Willow in the end. I hope I'm wrong.

But what did he take from him?  Kathryn was with Robert first...and she made that choice the day they met, and she chose to go back to him when he returned. Since she showed up last night for a tryst, that means she never belonged to Liam, he was just renting her.   Other than that, what else that belonged to Liam did Robert take?  I do miss and fast forward a lot  so I honestly don't know what he is referring to. 

I think there was some truth in what Robert said to Kathryn, but he is good at putting things into compartments and he realizes that he may want her, but he could never respect her...or trust her. 

I have no problem with Willow being sweet, but not being a pushover.  Was Sebastian around?  Does Eleanor know he is sleeping with her mother?  Do we really need Jasper? 

I missed the beginning of this season....I thought it came out that Robert put himself on the island?  I totally missed the whole "did he kill the king" story, but from what was posted here I thought he was cleared.  Was he really stranded on the island?  What, if anything, did they do about his PTSD symptoms that he showed in a few episodes last year? 

Ok Phoenics....because of you had I to go back and rewatch.   How did I miss the bed scene? I fast forwarded through the beginning.  I must have thought it was Eleanor and Jasper!   

[EarlGreyTea]

7 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Aargh - Noooooooo!

Besides - that would just make Willow as bad as Kathryn... and doom poor Willow to be stuck with Liam, when the more interesting character is Robert.  Unless the show is still determined to give everything to Liam in the end and leave Robert with nothing.  If the show gets a S5 - they CANNOT go this route.  The only way forward is to drop the triangles, get Liam his own story that doesn't involve snatching up his brother's leftovers, and move forward.

The show needs to get bigger, not smaller.

What kind of tribal rain dance do I need to do to make sure this show doesn't go down the stupid path?

I'd give a lot to know how much the writers have pivoted since last season, if they have at all. Last season it seemed clear Robert was meant to be the villain. Now, they still have a few episodes to make him turn heel - and I bet they will - but he seems to be a better person than was suggested last season.  Because murdering Simon is a point of no return for Robert, and the writers seemed to have pulled him back at the last second, to make him redeemable. But in doing so, they left Liam - and Cyrus -  to flounder without a storyline.

Willow and Robert have become much more than I'd hoped for last season. I  figured they'd  marginalize them, particularly when Robert turned, but I've been pleasantly surprised.

[catrice2]

5 minutes ago, EarlGreyTea said:

I'd give a lot to know how much the writers have pivoted since last season, if they have at all. Last season it seemed clear Robert was meant to be the villain. Now, they still have a few episodes to make him turn heel - and I bet they will - but he seems to be a better person than was suggested last season.  Because murdering Simon is a point of no return for Robert, and the writers seemed to have pulled him back at the last second, to make him redeemable. But in doing so, they left Liam - and Cyrus -  to flounder without a storyline.

Willow and Robert have become much more than I'd hoped for last season. I  figured they'd  marginalize them, particularly when Robert turned, but I've been pleasantly surprised.

I think they will also. I read an article and it seemed to indicate they would move Robert one way, only to take him back to villain.  That's why I read these boards before I watch the episodes, because I am not here for that!  I just don't want to see it play out.....NOOOOO!!  But clearly they have no imagination so that is what they will do to keep trying to make the show about LIam. 

[EarlGreyTea]

1 minute ago, catrice2 said:

But what did he take from him?  Kathryn was with Robert first...and she made that choice the day they met, and she chose to go back to him when he returned. Since she showed up last night for a tryst, that means she never belonged to Liam, he was just renting her.   Other than that, what else that belonged to Liam did Robert take?  I do miss and fast forward a lot  so I honestly don't know what he is referring to. 

I think there was some truth in what Robert said to Kathryn, but he is good at putting things into compartments and he realizes that he may want her, but he could never respect her...or trust her. 

I have no problem with Willow being sweet, but not being a pushover.  Was Sebastian around?  Does Eleanor know he is sleeping with her mother?  Do we really need Jasper? 

I missed the beginning of this season....I thought it came out that Robert put himself on the island?  I totally missed the whole "did he kill the king" story, but from what was posted here I thought he was cleared.  Was he really stranded on the island?  What, if anything, did they do about his PTSD symptoms that he showed in a few episodes last year? 

Ok Phoenics....because of you had I to go back and rewatch.   How did I miss the bed scene? I fast forwarded through the beginning.  I must have thought it was Eleanor and Jasper!   

No Sebastian this episode. I don't think it was revealed that Robert put himself on the island, making Liam look the fool. Which - it was TOTALLY telegraphed last season that Robert had put himself there, but that seems to be retconned. The PTSD is gone, which is too bad because it was intriguing last season.

Since his return, Robert has taken:

1. Liam's place in the line of succession. Liam's entire raison d'etre since season one was filling Robert's shoes, and it really was an interesting arc, seeing him accept his new role and then - bam. Gone. And Robert wasn't too gracious about it either.

2. Kathryn. Yes, she was Robert's first - another reason for Liam to dislike him. But Liam seemed to see her as his.

3. The support of the people. The #kingliam hashtag was a major plot point last season. Which brings us to:

4. Willow. Liam never gave her the time of day, but I think he secretly liked having her in his back pocket. Her PR smarts singlehandedly made him believe he could be king, and he's lost that, too.

[catrice2]

Oh, keep forgetting to say E. Hurley looks like she has a mustache or something.  She needs to lay off the botox an fillers. 

[phoenics]

12 minutes ago, EarlGreyTea said:

No Sebastian this episode. I don't think it was revealed that Robert put himself on the island, making Liam look the fool. Which - it was TOTALLY telegraphed last season that Robert had put himself there, but that seems to be retconned. The PTSD is gone, which is too bad because it was intriguing last season.

Since his return, Robert has taken:

1. Liam's place in the line of succession. Liam's entire raison d'etre since season one was filling Robert's shoes, and it really was an interesting arc, seeing him accept his new role and then - bam. Gone. And Robert wasn't too gracious about it either.

2. Kathryn. Yes, she was Robert's first - another reason for Liam to dislike him. But Liam seemed to see her as his.

3. The support of the people. The #kingliam hashtag was a major plot point last season. Which brings us to:

4. Willow. Liam never gave her the time of day, but I think he secretly liked having her in his back pocket. Her PR smarts singlehandedly made him believe he could be king, and he's lost that, too.

Yeah - but nothing Robert took was ever really Liam's.  Liam just felt entitled to it.  Even how he seemed to think that being King was something his mother should decide between the two of them (him and Robert) was delusional AF.  He really thought she would upend hundreds of years of succession rules to make him King over Robert - when it was Robert's birthright?  

Delusional.

He was just as delusional about Kate - sure - Robert beat him to the punch about Kate - but Kate could have EASILY chosen Liam once Robert made his move.  Kate knew Liam liked her too.  But she didn't make that choice - she chose Robert - or more importantly - she chose Robert's throne.  This does feel slightly like a retcon - because she seemed upset when he was crowned King - I think she thought it  would be easier for them to be together if he wasn't King.  But that was last season.

I think how they play Robert will depend on whether we get a 5th season.  I wonder if they filmed alternate versions of the show leading to the finale.  If there is no chance of a new season - then they will likely make Robert a full on evil villain and destroy him in the end.  That would make me really upset, but there you have it.

If we DO get a new season, then Robert might be outed for manipulating the blackout to seize power - but that's it.  He won't lose the Crown - he'll just cause a constitutional crisis, which could be interesting, and he might lose Willow.

Can I just say again how much I DON'T want to see Liam with Willow?  The increase in their scenes together has made me suspcious but they really didn't have much chemistry and WM just doesn't hold my attention anymore.  Not with Max Brown standing right there.

There is also Cassandra causing trouble.

In the S4 promo, there is clearly a wedding happening, with Helena looking shocked in it - I wonder if Willow decides she cannot do it?  Or Cassandra crashes it?  Willow chooses Liam (please God no)?  Something happens...

I don't want to see a Cassandra/Robert/Willow/Liam quad.

[paisley]

Yeah, Max Brown is everything. His portrayal of Robert keeps me thinking about the show long after its gone off. He's doing a hell of a job.

My dream for Willow is that she has some kind of secret agenda (like she's working for the government to keep an eye on the royals). I want her and Robert together but as equals, challenging each other and respecting and admiring each others strengths. Willow and Liam hold absolutely no interest for me. It would be like her being his babysitter. As I've said before Liam needs to go find himself and show up next season (I hope there is one) with a new attitude and having developed his own interests. No more dippy girlfriends.

I started watching this show for Jasper and Eleanor and I have no regrets. They've both evolved from really wretched people into a couple who truly care for each other. I enjoy watching them interact and hope to continue to do so..

It occurred to me that Cyrus and Cassandra have the same kind of energy and it might be fun to see them as frenemies. They could be so powerfully devious together. I'm not sure about a romance but maybe a companionship of convenience might work. I mean if Helena and Sebastian can work so could Cassandra and Cyrus. Think of them showing up together for a family dinner!

Hoping for The Royals Season 5.

[emjohnson03]

I like the fact that Liam and Robert are SO very different. Max Brown towers over William Mosley. He's a tall guy but you can really see the intension of making King Robert larger than life. I think that was intentional for sure.

I didn't watch Season Two or Three, and I never saw Liam as a worthy king watching clips. They make him so mopey and dull. And I think it's only made more obvious when he's with Robert. I feel bad because I don't think they know what do with him anymore. He's not interesting and there's no real motivation of him other than to be someone's arm. Thank goodness Kate is gone. My goodness she was duller than toast. 

I didn't even realize how aloof Willow was in this episode (I only watched the Robert/Willow stuff) but they really created something out of the blue for drama between her, Liam and Robert.

For reals, I need Willow to be scheming and manipulative when she needs to be. That is why I so enjoy Willow/Robert because they level each other out. I will admit I don't see alot of Robert challenging Willow but I don't think that's her purpose. I do think SHE makes him less evil and have feelings and softens him in the best way. But I can also seem them turning Willow she pull a last minute trick on him and blow up their relationship. I think a S5 might be unlikely but I would love to see them work through the deceptions with a little angst and hot tension but what do I know? :)

I like that they did pull back on Robert being so one note, I think it's because they saw that Max Brown can do both gritty and gentle in the same fricking scene and they could use that in building his character. 

Echoing what everyone says here...Max Brown really makes the show worth watching. And him and Willow. There is just something about them that feels so perfect in the show's storytelling. There's no need to throw obstacles from outside them, because they can make their own angst without stupid plot devices.

[emmielane]

13 hours ago, EarlGreyTea said:

See, I think she can pull off both. It's clear she can be icy when she needs to be, but her true nature is soft. She, like Robert, seems to understand that being a royal means you need to have both a public and a private face. And frankly, this show has no idea to write sweet. Ophelia, Kathryn, and Greta were all "good" girls, but duller than dishwater. Their best female characters are good people with an edge - Helena, Eleanor, etc.

I was totally waiting for there to be a scene at the end where Willow walks into the room and congratulate Robert for exposing Kathryn. It totally fits - her little chat  with Kathryn to set it up, with Robert knocking it down. Now that would have been badass.

Having said that, I wouldn't be all THAT surprised if Robert really did miss Kathryn. She was the one who inspired him to get off the island, after all. Nothing less than true love can inspire that kind of will. All his protesting cements it. The gentleman doth protest too much.

I gave this a lot of thought all day (which I never did before Robert showed back up. I swear he singlehandedly saved this show). I'm thinking with Kathryn out of the way, it's going to free Liam up to pursue Willow. I really think this is where they're headed now. God save us from love triangles, but at least it's with someone interesting. And seeing as how Robert really has taken everything from Liam, Liam will probably end up with Willow in the end. I hope I'm wrong.

It's true they cannot write a "good" character, Kathryn has no depth and with the first sign Robert wanting to bang her she comes running...ugh. Liam is an amazingly good-hearted character, but even he had his dark days. My favorite character is Len, her character has grown the most and has the best one liners. 

Good point Willow does know you must know when to be stern as a royal, but as the social media expert she flopped when the paparazzi were all over her, we know she is capable of giving a great speech- that's what was the deciding factor for Robert.

I think we are going to see a whole lot of Cassandra.

And I'm getting annoyed with EVERY episode ending on a cliffhanger... that's what season finales are for. A little closure for 7 days wouldn't kill anyone...just saying.

[phoenics]

I'm more worried we are gonna get a cliffhanger at the end of this season and no season 5.

[paisley]

I'm real concerned about how the season will end also. 3 eps to go, the show is more engaging than ever thanks to Robert/Willow. What will happen with the BTS upheaval? E! should recognize there's only so much Kardashians and Sex and the City reruns people can watch. The Royals- Season 5!

[Rachel RSL]

Ok, first of all, Max Brown sjdsjdhdkjfhzufhzehf;dD:h  *melts*    

I mean, DAMN.

Anyway, all swooning aside, I spent the last half of the episode so annoyed that we were getting sucked back into the dumbass love triangle again, so I was thrilled when Robert was just being his deliciously evil self. I'd like to say Kathryn was a moron for going back to a man who called her a whore but when Robert whispered that he missed her in so many ways...yep, I'd be showing up at his door too. That being said, Kathryn sucks in SO MANY other ways, please let this be the last we see of her.

 

On 4/23/2018 at 12:52 PM, omgsowicked said:

Argh, they keep skipping over these big moments with Robert and Willow! Now they're sleeping together?

I agree that we're getting ripped off when it comes to the big moments for Robert and Willow. Where's our passionate, smoking hot love scene? Maybe they could show us 1 or 2 or 50 fewer scenes of Jasper. Or skip like every scene of Liam.

#QueenWillow

[phoenics]

19 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I'd like to say Kathryn was a moron for going back to a man who called her a whore but when Robert whispered that he missed her in so many ways...yep, I'd be showing up at his door too.

Okay - I legit snort laughed at this and then laughed loudly for a good 30 seconds.

So true.  My panties would simply dissolve.

[Pink-n-Green]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 2:33 PM, catrice2 said:

Ugh to Jasper being a knight after he has slept with mother and daughter, and came there to steal.  The worst part was letting Eleanor have a relationship that girl when he knew 

Jasper, Jasper, Jasper, why can't I just enjoy the pretty you bring and stop analyzing you???

I'm just not wild about this guy and Catrice2's comment hit the nail right on the head for me. 

Also, can Americans even be knighted?  Because we have that whole "we don't want to be part of a monarchy" thing going on.  Ok, I googled it and an American can be an honorary knight.  So ol' Jason can use KBE (Knight of the British Empire) after his name but would not properly be referred to as "Sir Jason Frost".

I wonder why they made Jason American to begin with? His American accent keeps slipping and also there's nothing about him that could only be explained by being an American.

Still, as I mentioned, he's so darn pretty.

[paisley]

Jasper's eyebrows are art.