Season 8: Our Guys Didn't Always Win

[andromeda331]

40 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

And I really hate to say it, but some people just cannot be helped. He wasn’t just insane, he was fanatical. Perhaps the death penalty would have been kinder.

Very true.

[Xeliou66]

Shadow was on earlier - this is a really good episode, one of 2 times in the show’s history that they did a “staged prosecution” the other being season 16’s Invaders. It was interesting seeing how they went about setting up things to weed out the corruption, and I thought the DA’s office did what was necessary to get to the bottom of the situation, although I understood Judge Kaylin’s concerns about how the system could be abused, I thought he was wrong to say Jack did it for his ego, he did it to weed out corruption, if anyone had an ego it was Kaylin. I liked Schiff’s line “I won’t go down like the Titanic” and his wordless expression when informed Harmon was the killer said it all - he could say a lot with few words. Charlie Harmon was such a piece of crap, a corrupt scumbag who murdered to keep a lid on his corruption, and then he was willing to lie to get criminals released just to try to blackmail the DAs office, and then acting like Jamie was no different from him, fuck him. I did buy that Jamie felt guilty over it because she came from privilege while Harmon didn’t.

[andromeda331]

On 11/15/2022 at 6:24 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Shadow was on earlier - this is a really good episode, one of 2 times in the show’s history that they did a “staged prosecution” the other being season 16’s Invaders. It was interesting seeing how they went about setting up things to weed out the corruption, and I thought the DA’s office did what was necessary to get to the bottom of the situation, although I understood Judge Kaylin’s concerns about how the system could be abused, I thought he was wrong to say Jack did it for his ego, he did it to weed out corruption, if anyone had an ego it was Kaylin. I liked Schiff’s line “I won’t go down like the Titanic” and his wordless expression when informed Harmon was the killer said it all - he could say a lot with few words. Charlie Harmon was such a piece of crap, a corrupt scumbag who murdered to keep a lid on his corruption, and then he was willing to lie to get criminals released just to try to blackmail the DAs office, and then acting like Jamie was no different from him, fuck him. I did buy that Jamie felt guilty over it because she came from privilege while Harmon didn’t.

I like that episode too because it's different from the usual. Their trying to find out who the person was. I do think the Judge went too far. Schiff signed off on the fake case and it really was the only way. The Judge acted like it was all Jack. I can see why Jamie would feel bad but I really wish she didn't. Sure she had the privilege but that doesn't excuse Charlie Harmon for what he did. He chose to be a lawyer and instead of building a career he could be proud of he sold out. Then decided to sell out his clients. Sorry, Charlie, but millions of men and women become lawyers without privilege and don't do any of those things. If they needed money get a second job or going to private practice. I'm sure there was a law firm that would have hired him. I love his wife has the nerve to be mad at Jamie with what her husband has been doing which she had to be aware of since she helped. 

[Xeliou66]

On 11/21/2022 at 4:05 AM, andromeda331 said:

I like that episode too because it's different from the usual. Their trying to find out who the person was. I do think the Judge went too far. Schiff signed off on the fake case and it really was the only way. The Judge acted like it was all Jack. I can see why Jamie would feel bad but I really wish she didn't. Sure she had the privilege but that doesn't excuse Charlie Harmon for what he did. He chose to be a lawyer and instead of building a career he could be proud of he sold out. Then decided to sell out his clients. Sorry, Charlie, but millions of men and women become lawyers without privilege and don't do any of those things. If they needed money get a second job or going to private practice. I'm sure there was a law firm that would have hired him. I love his wife has the nerve to be mad at Jamie with what her husband has been doing which she had to be aware of since she helped. 

Yeah it’s a good episode, and I thought the judge was wrong in saying it was about Jack’s ego, he suggested the fake prosecution, and Adam signed off on it, in order to get to the bottom of the corruption, ego had nothing to do with it.   
Yeah Charlie was a piece of shit, plenty of lawyers don’t come from privilege and don’t become corrupt, I didn’t feel any sympathy for him, and his wife had a lot of nerve being mad at Jamie for the whole situation. Jamie did feel bad about the situation but none of it was her fault at all. I liked Jamie a lot, and watching her episodes now makes me very angry about how they threw her under the bus in the season 21 premiere, no way would Jamie ever let a murder happen, that was just disgraceful character assassination. 

[andromeda331]

On 11/22/2022 at 11:02 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah it’s a good episode, and I thought the judge was wrong in saying it was about Jack’s ego, he suggested the fake prosecution, and Adam signed off on it, in order to get to the bottom of the corruption, ego had nothing to do with it.   
Yeah Charlie was a piece of shit, plenty of lawyers don’t come from privilege and don’t become corrupt, I didn’t feel any sympathy for him, and his wife had a lot of nerve being mad at Jamie for the whole situation. Jamie did feel bad about the situation but none of it was her fault at all. I liked Jamie a lot, and watching her episodes now makes me very angry about how they threw her under the bus in the season 21 premiere, no way would Jamie ever let a murder happen, that was just disgraceful character assassination. 

Me too. They threw her under the bus and for nothing. That wasn't how Jamie was.

[Xeliou66]

I just watched Stalker - good episode, and as I’ve said before I enjoyed seeing Curtis’ smug ass get destroyed on the stand. I was left wondering whether the first attack was real or not, because the victim never said she lied about it and while there were some inconsistencies the attack could’ve happened IMO, the victim was genuinely terrified and she never recanted her statement, and I thought it was wrong of Van Buren and Curtis to accuse Lennie of perjuring himself, he just realized that he could’ve been wrong about what happened. Curtis was so smug and self righteous and I enjoyed watching him get his ass handed to him on a platter. Both Briscoe and Curtis were too quick to dismiss the victim’s concerns and stop their investigation, I felt horrible for the victim, and Curtis cared more about his own sense of morality than anything else. 
One plot point I thought of is that the victim had injuries on her neck from where she had been choked, and if she had done it herself it seems like they might’ve found her own skin under her fingernails, but no mention was made of this, I think it’s more proof that the attack could’ve been real. 
The perp was a real piece of human scum, glad he went away for life. Briscoe was right to testify for the prosecution, and if Van Buren had such an issue with everything she should’ve confronted the DA’s about what was going on as well, this was one of the few times Anita got on my nerves, instead of talking about what was going on with Lennie she just jumped down his throat and accused him of perjury.  
The landlord of the building was a cranky old guy who was pretty funny in an otherwise tragic episode.

 

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just watched Stalker - good episode, and as I’ve said before I enjoyed seeing Curtis’ smug ass get destroyed on the stand. I was left wondering whether the first attack was real or not, because the victim never said she lied about it and while there were some inconsistencies the attack could’ve happened IMO, the victim was genuinely terrified and she never recanted her statement, and I thought it was wrong of Van Buren and Curtis to accuse Lennie of perjuring himself, he just realized that he could’ve been wrong about what happened. Curtis was so smug and self righteous and I enjoyed watching him get his ass handed to him on a platter. Both Briscoe and Curtis were too quick to dismiss the victim’s concerns and stop their investigation, I felt horrible for the victim, and Curtis cared more about his own sense of morality than anything else. 
One plot point I thought of is that the victim had injuries on her neck from where she had been choked, and if she had done it herself it seems like they might’ve found her own skin under her fingernails, but no mention was made of this, I think it’s more proof that the attack could’ve been real. 
The perp was a real piece of human scum, glad he went away for life. Briscoe was right to testify for the prosecution, and if Van Buren had such an issue with everything she should’ve confronted the DA’s about what was going on as well, this was one of the few times Anita got on my nerves, instead of talking about what was going on with Lennie she just jumped down his throat and accused him of perjury.  
The landlord of the building was a cranky old guy who was pretty funny in an otherwise tragic episode.

I really don't know if she did or not. Like you said she really seemed geniunely terrifed. It turned to the perp was a stalker. But no one was taking her seriously which was par for the course at the time for victims of stalkers. There were no laws and the police really didn't do anything. While I don't like Lennie dismissing her so quickly but after she's murdered he's willing to do anything to get her murderer put being bars. For justice and probably guilt for dismissing her. I don't know if he was lying either. It's possible he was but it's also possible in light of her murder that he wanted to make sure her murderer was brought to justice. That he changed his mind about the first attack. Or possibly again guilt for dismissing her. Either way I like that he testified for the prosecution. Curtis's is an ass as usual. I love how he thinks he's morally superior while refusing to consider that he might have been wrong or getting all over Lennie who's at leas trying to bring a murderer to justice. What exactly are you doing Curtis? Oh, right judging and nothing. I'm really surprised by Anita. She knows Lennie enough to believe him and trust him. 

 

 

 

 

[Xeliou66]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I really don't know if she did or not. Like you said she really seemed geniunely terrifed. It turned to the perp was a stalker. But no one was taking her seriously which was par for the course at the time for victims of stalkers. There were no laws and the police really didn't do anything. While I don't like Lennie dismissing her so quickly but after she's murdered he's willing to do anything to get her murderer put being bars. For justice and probably guilt for dismissing her. I don't know if he was lying either. It's possible he was but it's also possible in light of her murder that he wanted to make sure her murderer was brought to justice. That he changed his mind about the first attack. Or possibly again guilt for dismissing her. Either way I like that he testified for the prosecution. Curtis's is an ass as usual. I love how he thinks he's morally superior while refusing to consider that he might have been wrong or getting all over Lennie who's at leas trying to bring a murderer to justice. What exactly are you doing Curtis? Oh, right judging and nothing. I'm really surprised by Anita. She knows Lennie enough to believe him and trust him. 

 

 

 

 

I just thought the police were quick to close the investigation once they discovered an inconsistency in the victim’s story - she never admitted to lying and was terrified of the stalker killing her which is what happened. I thought Anita should’ve talked the case over with Lennie instead of just jumping down his throat, they had known each other long enough and trusted each other. And Curtis was his usual sanctimonious, hypocritical self. I really disliked Curtis sometimes.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just thought the police were quick to close the investigation once they discovered an inconsistency in the victim’s story - she never admitted to lying and was terrified of the stalker killing her which is what happened. I thought Anita should’ve talked the case over with Lennie instead of just jumping down his throat, they had known each other long enough and trusted each other. And Curtis was his usual sanctimonious, hypocritical self. I really disliked Curtis sometimes.

I wish Anita had talked to Lennie too. She knew him so why not just talk to him about the case? Why did they close the case so quickly? They've talked to enough victims to know they don't get every detail right.  

[Spartan Girl]

On 4/19/2023 at 1:21 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I just thought the police were quick to close the investigation once they discovered an inconsistency in the victim’s story - she never admitted to lying and was terrified of the stalker killing her which is what happened. I thought Anita should’ve talked the case over with Lennie instead of just jumping down his throat, they had known each other long enough and trusted each other. And Curtis was his usual sanctimonious, hypocritical self. I really disliked Curtis sometimes.

I don’t think she made up the first attack. Like you said, she never confessed to making it up. The whole reason she broke down crying was because the cops were accusing her when HER LIFE WAS LITERALLY IN DANGER. Unfortunately, the cops being quick to dismiss the whole thing over one or two inconsistencies that (as Lennie later proved) weren’t concrete is truth in television. How many times have we seen victims being dismissed while the attackers cry “false accusations”?

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

I don’t think she made up the first attack. Like you said, she never confessed to making it up. The whole reason she broke down crying was because the cops were accusing her when HER LIFE WAS LITERALLY IN DANGER. Unfortunately, the cops being quick to dismiss the whole thing over one or two inconsistencies that (as Lennie later proved) weren’t concrete is truth in television. How many times have we seen victims being dismissed while the attackers cry “false accusations”?

Yeah the detectives were very quick to dismiss the case once they discovered an inconsistency and then Curtis acted like the fact that she broke down crying when they accused her of faking it was proof that she faked it. I didn’t take it that way at all, she was in fear for her life and the cops were closing their investigation, she never said she made it up. It was wrong of Van Buren to harshly judge Briscoe for changing his opinion, she had known him long enough to know he was a good detective and she could’ve had a more mature discussion with him than just yelling at him, although for that matter Lennie could’ve given her a heads up that he was changing his mind. Curtis was just a self righteous prick and as it turned out a massive hypocrite, he had no problem lying to the hospital but he was quick to accuse Lennie of committing perjury. 

[Spartan Girl]

I love Jamie but she annoyed me in “Under the Influence.” I get that she wanted to do things by the book, but she was giving Dressler the benefit of the doubt he didn’t really deserve. He was an abusive asshole even when he was sober, and almost killing a little girl back in New Jersey didn’t make him sorry enough to stop drinking or make sure he’d never hurt another innocent person ever again. But sure, he probably “accidentally ” missed the break when he ran over those people, even though he threatened his girlfriend to keep her mouth shut and tried to pin her as the driver after he sobered up. Come ON, Jamie… 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I love Jamie but she annoyed me in “Under the Influence.” I get that she wanted to do things by the book, but she was giving Dressler the benefit of the doubt he didn’t really deserve. He was an abusive asshole even when he was sober, and almost killing a little girl back in New Jersey didn’t make him sorry enough to stop drinking or make sure he’d never hurt another innocent person ever again. But sure, he probably “accidentally ” missed the break when he ran over those people, even though he threatened his girlfriend to keep her mouth shut and tried to pin her as the driver after he sobered up. Come ON, Jamie… 

I agree that Dressler didn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt, he was an asshole with a history of reckless behavior. That being said, Jamie was right in calling out Jack for not turning over the witness statement, Jack was definitely in the wrong in that situation, and even he realized it during the trial. 

[Xeliou66]

Watching season 8 tonight 

Carrier is a decent episode, Kenny Stark was a complete piece of garbage, deliberately infecting people with AIDS was just depraved and evil, I didn’t feel any sympathy for him even though he would likely die soon after the episode ended, good riddance to him, he intentionally infected several girls for no reason other than he was a sadist. It’s one of those episodes where the original crime morphed into something else, as the original shooting death that turned out to be an accident/manslaughter was quickly disposed of and the case focused elsewhere.

Stalker was next - as I’ve said before it was glorious to see Curtis’ smug ass get demolished on the witness stand, this episode featured Rey at his hypocritical worst, willing to change his story with the hospital but more concerned about his own morality than the murderous shitbag possibly getting off due to his testimony. I felt horrible for the victim, she was terrified for her life and she was right to be, and I liked how the episode left it open as to what happened with the first fall - I think there’s a good chance it was an attack, the victim’s story had a couple of holes but frequently victims leave stuff out or change details, she never admitted she made it up, there’s a good chance she was crying because they were accusing her of lying and she was terrified, Curtis was awfully sure of himself to say he was certain the victim made it up. Curtis just infuriated me here, as he often did, and frankly I disliked Anita as well, she had no right to jump down Lennie’s throat for his actions, she should’ve been calmer and talked it through with him instead of just yelling, usually she was a lot more level headed. This is one of my favorite episodes of season 8 - really good, albeit tragic, case, and I loved seeing Curtis get exposed in open court for being a self righteous hypocrite. And it didn’t have any of the personal stuff that plagued other season 8 episodes, it was a mistake to give an ongoing personal subplot to each character and fortunately L&O never did it again.

[Spartan Girl]

28 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Carrier is a decent episode, Kenny Stark was a complete piece of garbage, deliberately infecting people with AIDS was just depraved and evil, I didn’t feel any sympathy for him even though he would likely die soon after the episode ended, good riddance to him, he intentionally infected several girls for no reason other than he was a sadist. It’s one of those episodes where the original crime morphed into something else, as the original shooting death that turned out to be an accident/manslaughter was quickly disposed of and the case focused elsewhere.

And his parents were garbage too. They refused to help the police because they didn’t want him to hate him (kind of moot when he was refusing to speak to them), but they could live with him infection other women? Screw them.

[Xeliou66]

2 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

And his parents were garbage too. They refused to help the police because they didn’t want him to hate him (kind of moot when he was refusing to speak to them), but they could live with him infection other women? Screw them.

Yep, his parents were very selfish and cared more about their relationship with him (which was already pretty nonexistent) than about potentially saving the lives of the women infected by their scummy son. 

[andromeda331]

On 8/28/2023 at 8:00 PM, Spartan Girl said:

And his parents were garbage too. They refused to help the police because they didn’t want him to hate him (kind of moot when he was refusing to speak to them), but they could live with him infection other women? Screw them.

 

On 8/28/2023 at 8:04 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Yep, his parents were very selfish and cared more about their relationship with him (which was already pretty nonexistent) than about potentially saving the lives of the women infected by their scummy son. 

Yeah they were just as bad as their son. How do you do nothing when you find out your son is purposely infecting other women? He's making them sick and killing them. And they do nothing? No wonder he turned out the way he did. 

[andromeda331]

Nullification is not one of my favorite episodes but I still have hard time believing that the jury would deadlock. Most of what Phil and his cohorts say is just crap. Notihng that we haven't heard before. Also none of his crap explains away them robbing an armor car and killing two security guards plus one of their own. How exactly is that striking a blow against the government? Stealing money that doesn't even belong to the goverment? Their just criminals who robbed and killed two people. There's no way the jury should have deadlocked.

I do like the judge rejecting the enemy combatants pointing out that other groups like the Black Panthers. 

The boy was an idiot. Your father was killed in a robbery with his "pals" and your still on their side?

[Xeliou66]

Faccia a Faccia is a great episode, I just watched it on WE, one of my favorites from this season - really strong and intricate plot

Skoda calling Napoli the “diaper don” is hilarious, one of my favorite moments with Skoda, and a very smart strategy to show that Napoli was aware of his surroundings. It was memorable at the end of the episode in Jack’s office when Napoli suddenly revealed he was indeed aware all along of what was going on.

It was a great twist that Vicki was the actual killer of the hitman and worked together with Johnny to kill him after Johnny was hired by Napoli to kill the guy. It was interesting how Vicki didn’t know about Napoli and Napoli didn’t know about her, and how they were able to nail Napoli for conspiracy. Really strong plot and I liked how it all tied together. Adam was funny at the end as well “happy faces everybody”.

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Faccia a Faccia is a great episode, I just watched it on WE, one of my favorites from this season - really strong and intricate plot

Skoda calling Napoli the “diaper don” is hilarious, one of my favorite moments with Skoda, and a very smart strategy to show that Napoli was aware of his surroundings. It was memorable at the end of the episode in Jack’s office when Napoli suddenly revealed he was indeed aware all along of what was going on.

It was a great twist that Vicki was the actual killer of the hitman and worked together with Johnny to kill him after Johnny was hired by Napoli to kill the guy. It was interesting how Vicki didn’t know about Napoli and Napoli didn’t know about her, and how they were able to nail Napoli for conspiracy. Really strong plot and I liked how it all tied together. Adam was funny at the end as well “happy faces everybody”.

It's one of my favorites too. I love the Diaper Don. I love Vicki hirede the hitman to kill him the exact way her father was killed. I love that for once it wasn't a mob hit but revenge for one of their hits. I like what she says on the stand about how so many people look up to the mob because of movies and books instead of the killers they are. It was true then and probably still true now. 

[Xeliou66]

12 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It's one of my favorites too. I love the Diaper Don. I love Vicki hirede the hitman to kill him the exact way her father was killed. I love that for once it wasn't a mob hit but revenge for one of their hits. I like what she says on the stand about how so many people look up to the mob because of movies and books instead of the killers they are. It was true then and probably still true now. 

L&O has many great organized crime episodes, and this was one of the best. It was a good twist that Vicki killed the hitman for revenge while Johnny was conspiring with her to commit the murder on orders of Napoli, but Napoli didn’t know that Johnny had an accomplice in the murder. It was a fascinating plot with how it all tied together. Skoda was awesome as always, he saw right through the mob boss and it was a great move to provoke the son into a rage and get Napoli to reveal he was aware of his surroundings. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well this is disappointing. For some reason WE is skipping episodes. It aired episode one last week and resumed with 8 on Thursday! I  checked and previously aired aren’t even in the queue! And I don’t have Sundance so can’t even watch from there. And Peacock  only has 13-20.

There is no rhyme or reason.

But yes, “Faccia a Faccia” is a great episode. “Divorce” is beyond frustrating because BOTH Lennie and Rey act like they’ve never heard of Miranda and Van Buren isn’t any better, telling them to get Molly to confess without her lawyer/before her crooked and murdering (though we didn’t know that yet) lawyer could get there to stop it.

And Rey can just MISS me with his bloviating about how she killed the doctor. As if the confession wouldn’t have been thrown out at trial when she would have had her attorney with her.

Lennie was the biggest disappointment when he told Molly that if she left, Jack would have her arrested! 

Rene Balcer really disappointed me with some of the shenanigans he let pass in the writing. At least when it was Mike and Lennie, they knew when to stop questioning.

[GHScorpiosRule]

MAN!!!! "Blood" was one of the ones skipped over!

My ALL-TIME favorite moment is when they all realize that victim's husband is half-Black, and Van Buren comes in, sits down, oh so casually, and says:

"Hello, My Brother. DAMN!"

[Xeliou66]

15 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

MAN!!!! "Blood" was one of the ones skipped over!

My ALL-TIME favorite moment is when they all realize that victim's husband is half-Black, and Van Buren comes in, sits down, oh so casually, and says:

"Hello, My Brother. DAMN!"

Blood is a great episode, I love that moment with Anita as well. That’s a great case, the killer was such an evil bitch, so filled with hate and bigotry she even hated her son, Jack was right in calling it a hate crime. That’s one of my favorites from season 8.

I’m not sure why WE is jumping around and skipping episodes.

[wknt3]

On 10/28/2023 at 5:57 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Well this is disappointing. For some reason WE is skipping episodes. It aired episode one last week and resumed with 8 on Thursday! I  checked and previously aired aren’t even in the queue! And I don’t have Sundance so can’t even watch from there. And Peacock  only has 13-20.

There is no rhyme or reason.

Hey! That is an insult to the hardworking Dick Wolf Productions and network executives and their thoughtful and well reasoned approach to scheduling and licensing deals...

[andromeda331]

On 10/30/2023 at 11:08 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

MAN!!!! "Blood" was one of the ones skipped over!

My ALL-TIME favorite moment is when they all realize that victim's husband is half-Black, and Van Buren comes in, sits down, oh so casually, and says:

"Hello, My Brother. DAMN!"

 

On 10/30/2023 at 11:25 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Blood is a great episode, I love that moment with Anita as well. That’s a great case, the killer was such an evil bitch, so filled with hate and bigotry she even hated her son, Jack was right in calling it a hate crime. That’s one of my favorites from season 8.

I’m not sure why WE is jumping around and skipping episodes.

I agree it's a really great episode. I love Anita walking in with that line. It was awesome. I really feel bad for the son. There's no way he hasn't picked up on his mother's racism and his father gave up his baby half-sister because she was black. How does the son feel knowing he was only kept because he's white?  I love Jack calling her out on the stand when she talked about the school why send your son to a school like that? Later when realizing she hated her own son. What a horrible, horrible bigot.

[Xeliou66]

11 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 

I agree it's a really great episode. I love Anita walking in with that line. It was awesome. I really feel bad for the son. There's no way he hasn't picked up on his mother's racism and his father gave up his baby half-sister because she was black. How does the son feel knowing he was only kept because he's white?  I love Jack calling her out on the stand when she talked about the school why send your son to a school like that? Later when realizing she hated her own son. What a horrible, horrible bigot.

Yeah the murderer was a sorry excuse for a human being. There’s no way the son didn’t notice his mom’s disdain for him. And the dad was pretty lousy and spineless, he should’ve taken custody of his son to protect him from his witch of a mom but he didn’t, and he was a phony who was afraid of his all white upper class friend group finding out about his heritage. The killer was a witch who deserved a lot longer than the sentence she got. It’s a really good episode. 

[andromeda331]

18 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah the murderer was a sorry excuse for a human being. There’s no way the son didn’t notice his mom’s disdain for him. And the dad was pretty lousy and spineless, he should’ve taken custody of his son to protect him from his witch of a mom but he didn’t, and he was a phony who was afraid of his all white upper class friend group finding out about his heritage. The killer was a witch who deserved a lot longer than the sentence she got. It’s a really good episode. 

Yeah I don't buy the son doesn't feel know his mother hates him. There's no way someone that full hate could hide how much she hates her son. His father was really just as bad. He knew how horrible his ex was but did nothing to protect his son. Protecting his secret was more important then his son, his daughter and his new wife. That's horrible.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah I don't buy the son doesn't feel know his mother hates him. There's no way someone that full hate could hide how much she hates her son. His father was really just as bad. He knew how horrible his ex was but did nothing to protect his son. Protecting his secret was more important then his son, his daughter and his new wife. That's horrible.

Yep both of those parents were worthless. The son would definitely notice that his mom didn’t love him and after the case it would be easy to figure out why. And the dad didn’t care at all about protecting his son from his awful mom, or about his new wife and kid, he just cared about his appearance and not letting his all white friend group know he was part black because he was ashamed of himself. 

[TakomaSnark]

On 10/30/2023 at 1:08 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

MAN!!!! "Blood" was one of the ones skipped over!

My ALL-TIME favorite moment is when they all realize that victim's husband is half-Black, and Van Buren comes in, sits down, oh so casually, and says:

"Hello, My Brother. DAMN!"

The was an Emmy-caliber delivery from her. 

[Harry24]

On 10/28/2023 at 12:44 AM, andromeda331 said:

It's one of my favorites too. I love the Diaper Don. I love Vicki hirede the hitman to kill him the exact way her father was killed. I love that for once it wasn't a mob hit but revenge for one of their hits. I like what she says on the stand about how so many people look up to the mob because of movies and books instead of the killers they are. It was true then and probably still true now. 

I think Kathrine Narducci absolutely hit it out of the park with a few of her appearances.  She doesn’t seem like an actress playing a juicy scene.  I love that great scene when she hits Mike with a frying pan after they’ve entered the apartment to take care of the husband whose dick she cut off.  She never, EVER stops running her mouth!  And then her realization that her husband is dead ... there aren’t a lot of actresses who could play that stupid, that passionate, and that heartbroken all at once.

And then her appearance on the stand in Faccia.  She’s so poignant as the voice of the people all those “colorful” mob characters just grind under their heels, all the while helping to sell books, magazines, etc.  Poignant and believable as a real person.  

[JudgeyMcJudgyPants]

Watching “Grief” right now.  The parents of the comatose woman have to go into the “worst parents of all time”.  Fucking sicko mom paid an orderly to rape her daughter who’s in a coma so she can have a grandkid.  

[Xeliou66]

23 minutes ago, JudgeyMcJudgyPants said:

Watching “Grief” right now.  The parents of the comatose woman have to go into the “worst parents of all time”.  Fucking sicko mom paid an orderly to rape her daughter who’s in a coma so she can have a grandkid.  

The dad didn’t know what the mom did though, he was stunned when they revealed it to him, so he wasn’t nearly as bad. But yes that mom was a loony sicko, paying someone to rape your comatose daughter is depraved and insane. I hope the grandkid was kept far away from crazy granny, the orderly’s parents would be much more fit guardians. 

[JudgeyMcJudgyPants]

The father should have divorced that narcissistic psycho and filed for full custody of the baby.  I couldn’t believe McCoy was defending her.  Every time she tried to defend what she did, she just came off worse.  “God owed me that baby,”. Get the fuck outta here you crazy nutball!

[Xeliou66]

12 hours ago, JudgeyMcJudgyPants said:

The father should have divorced that narcissistic psycho and filed for full custody of the baby.  I couldn’t believe McCoy was defending her.  Every time she tried to defend what she did, she just came off worse.  “God owed me that baby,”. Get the fuck outta here you crazy nutball!

Agreed but it didn’t even seem like the husband was going to divorce his lunatic wife, it seemed like he was going to stay with her. She was completely crazy, and that’s why I think the parents of the rapist would be the best guardians for the kid, grandma was nutty as a fruitcake, I agree everything she said just made her more unsympathetic and she seemed to think what she did was okay. She was batshit crazy. 

[andromeda331]

On 3/18/2024 at 8:42 PM, JudgeyMcJudgyPants said:

Watching “Grief” right now.  The parents of the comatose woman have to go into the “worst parents of all time”.  Fucking sicko mom paid an orderly to rape her daughter who’s in a coma so she can have a grandkid.  

Absolutely. She was sick and psycho to pay someone to rape her comatose daughter.

On 3/19/2024 at 9:53 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed but it didn’t even seem like the husband was going to divorce his lunatic wife, it seemed like he was going to stay with her. She was completely crazy, and that’s why I think the parents of the rapist would be the best guardians for the kid, grandma was nutty as a fruitcake, I agree everything she said just made her more unsympathetic and she seemed to think what she did was okay. She was batshit crazy. 

It's weird to think that the rapist parents' would be the better guardians for the kid. But they would be. I hope the kid never finds out how they came into the world. How horrible that would be.

[Xeliou66]

Stalker is a great episode, but Rey and to a lesser extent even Anita irritate me in this episode - I absolutely loved seeing Curtis get exposed for his hypocrisy on the stand, he was so damn self righteous. I thought he was wrong when he said that the victim acknowledged with her behavior that she made up the first attack, she never said she made up the attack and was genuinely terrified that she would be killed and she was right to be - she never said she made up the story, she was crying because they didn’t believe her. There were a couple of holes in the story but frequently victims do leave stuff out, I wasn’t convinced the first attack was staged, I think there’s a good chance it wasn’t, and I think the victim was crying because they didn’t believe her, not because she made it up. Lennie tried to make it right, and Rey was so damn smug and condescending about it, I loved when Jack exposed his hypocrisy. 
Anita was wrong to jump down Lennie’s throat for changing his story, and it seemed kind of odd for her, her and Lennie had known each other long enough that it would seem like she would be calmer in discussing the situation with Lennie, and it seems like Lennie would go to her before testifying, like I said they had strong mutual respect so that felt off.    
It’s a really good case, and it’s memorable because we got to know the victim before she died, so the viewer felt more invested in the outcome.       
The twist that the killer blackmailed the company employee over his embezzlement and got to use his computer while incarcerated was good. 
The building super was a cranky old guy and a memorable minor character.

[ByTor]

1 minute ago, Xeliou66 said:

The building super was a cranky old guy and a memorable minor character

LOL yeah his grouchiness was quite amusing.

[Xeliou66]

5 minutes ago, ByTor said:

LOL yeah his grouchiness was quite amusing.

I love the colorful minor characters on L&O that the detectives run into. 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Stalker is a great episode, but Rey and to a lesser extent even Anita irritate me in this episode - I absolutely loved seeing Curtis get exposed for his hypocrisy on the stand, he was so damn self righteous. I thought he was wrong when he said that the victim acknowledged with her behavior that she made up the first attack, she never said she made up the attack and was genuinely terrified that she would be killed and she was right to be - she never said she made up the story, she was crying because they didn’t believe her. There were a couple of holes in the story but frequently victims do leave stuff out, I wasn’t convinced the first attack was staged, I think there’s a good chance it wasn’t, and I think the victim was crying because they didn’t believe her, not because she made it up. Lennie tried to make it right, and Rey was so damn smug and condescending about it, I loved when Jack exposed his hypocrisy. 

I never thought she made up the story either. She was way too scared for someone who made it up. And your right that she never said she made up the story. I don't know why Rey thought she did. Also it was okay for him to lie to her employer so she could keep her job. But not for Briscoe to try and get her killer convicted.

Although I'm not sure he was lying. I always thought after she was killed he felt horrible about not believing her and trying to do everything he could to get justice for her.

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Anita was wrong to jump down Lennie’s throat for changing his story, and it seemed kind of odd for her, her and Lennie had known each other long enough that it would seem like she would be calmer in discussing the situation with Lennie, and it seems like Lennie would go to her before testifying, like I said they had strong mutual respect so that felt off.    
It’s a really good case, and it’s memorable because we got to know the victim before she died, so the viewer felt more invested in the outcome.       
The twist that the killer blackmailed the company employee over his embezzlement and got to use his computer while incarcerated was good. 
The building super was a cranky old guy and a memorable minor character.

Yeah Van Buren was out of character. She knew Lennie and should have trusted him. Even if she thought he was wrong she'd give him a day to look into before moving on. She was really good at doing that.

[Xeliou66]

16 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I never thought she made up the story either. She was way too scared for someone who made it up. And your right that she never said she made up the story. I don't know why Rey thought she did. Also it was okay for him to lie to her employer so she could keep her job. But not for Briscoe to try and get her killer convicted.

Although I'm not sure he was lying. I always thought after she was killed he felt horrible about not believing her and trying to do everything he could to get justice for her.

Yeah Van Buren was out of character. She knew Lennie and should have trusted him. Even if she thought he was wrong she'd give him a day to look into before moving on. She was really good at doing that.

Yeah I didn’t get why Rey said that by her behavior she acknowledged she lied - she never said she lied, she was crying because she was terrified of the psycho stalker and the detectives didn’t believe she was in danger. I liked how the episode pretty much left it open ended as to whether the first attack was real or not - one thing that I thought of was that Briscoe said she had deep scratches on her neck, but if she had done it herself wouldn’t they have found her own skin under her fingernails? That makes me think the attack was real. There was the inconsistency about the garbage but there could be a reason for that. It could’ve been real or fake, but I lean towards believing it was real. I thought it was absurd that Rey said she acknowledged she made it up by her behavior.   
Glad I’m not the only one who thought Anita was a bit out of character - that scene just seemed off, Lennie and Anita had known each other long enough for them to have a conversation about the case without getting so pissed. And Rey was a hypocrite for how he judged Lennie for his actions when Rey had lied to help the victim in the past. But Rey being a hypocritical jackass was nothing new. 

[andromeda331]

15 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I didn’t get why Rey said that by her behavior she acknowledged she lied - she never said she lied, she was crying because she was terrified of the psycho stalker and the detectives didn’t believe she was in danger. I liked how the episode pretty much left it open ended as to whether the first attack was real or not - 

I like how the left it open too.  I do believe her because of how scared she was but I can see how others (not Rey) might think she made it up. There wasn't any evidence.

 

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one thing that I thought of was that Briscoe said she had deep scratches on her neck, but if she had done it herself wouldn’t they have found her own skin under her fingernails? That makes me think the attack was real.

That's a good question. They would have checked under her fingernails to see if it was her skin or not. That would have proved if she was lying or not.

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 Glad I’m not the only one who thought Anita was a bit out of character - that scene just seemed off, Lennie and Anita had known each other long enough for them to have a conversation about the case without getting so pissed.

No your not.  Van Buren knew Lennie too long. And there were times in the past and future when she disagreed with him or other detectives but still gave them time to look into it before ordering them to move on. 

 

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And Rey was a hypocrite for how he judged Lennie for his actions when Rey had lied to help the victim in the past. But Rey being a hypocritical jackass was nothing new. 

So true.

[ByTor]

20 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Quote

And Rey was a hypocrite for how he judged Lennie for his actions when Rey had lied to help the victim in the past. But Rey being a hypocritical jackass was nothing new. 

So true.

I never got all the comments about Rey not being a great character, but NOW I do. He ruins so many episodes for me.

[Xeliou66]

8 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I never got all the comments about Rey not being a great character, but NOW I do. He ruins so many episodes for me.

Yes Rey was a sanctimonious jackass and a hypocrite. It’s funny because the cases were arguably at their best during his time on the show, I mean I think season 7 is L&O’s best season case wise, it’s just one excellent, classic case after another, but Rey is my second least favorite detective on L&O behind only Beauty Queen in season 17. He just makes me want to punch the tv sometimes. 
At times I wonder if the showrunners intended for Rey to be unlikable or at least controversial - Lennie was such an awesome, likable detective that I wonder if the heads of the show wanted someone who would cause some conflict and get viewers riled up so they brought in Rey. 
Anyway it was always nice when Rey got knocked down a peg and that’s one of the things I like the most about Stalker is seeing Jack expose Rey as a giant hypocrite on the witness stand. 

[ByTor]

But Rey-Rey is just soooo hawt!! 🙄 

Edited May 9 by ByTor

[Theli11]

Yeah I just watched Stalker. I'm of the minority here. Lennie is using a loophole and it's much much more likely that the victim faked her fall. I think Van Buren is upset because she doesn't want Lennie to screw up and get arrested for Perjury because she knows that Lennie genuinely didn't believe her. It's also a bad look for the NYPD. 

[Xeliou66]

2 minutes ago, Theli11 said:

Yeah I just watched Stalker. I'm of the minority here. Lennie is using a loophole and it's much much more likely that the victim faked her fall. I think Van Buren is upset because she doesn't want Lennie to screw up and get arrested for Perjury because she knows that Lennie genuinely didn't believe her. It's also a bad look for the NYPD. 

Definitely an unpopular opinion. I was uncertain whether the victim faked her fall or not, there was an inconsistency in her story but as has often been said on SVU victims frequently leave stuff out or change parts of their story. She never admitted faking the fall and her crying when they accused her of faking it was because she was terrified and knew the guy wouldn’t stop, it was not an admission of faking it and it rubbed me the wrong way that they accepted it as such. I don’t know how much Lennie genuinely believed but I thought him and Anita could’ve talked it out without Anita getting so pissed, maybe it was kind of OOC on both their parts since Lennie didn’t talk to Anita before talking to the DAs. But I was uncertain about whether or not she faked the fall. And what Rey did reflected poorly on the NYPD as well, he was a blatant hypocrite and I enjoyed seeing him knocked down a peg. 

[andromeda331]

I don't think she faked it. She was so scared and terrified especially when she realized they didn't believe her. 

[andromeda331]

On 11/14/2024 at 4:27 PM, Theli11 said:

Yeah I just watched Stalker. I'm of the minority here. Lennie is using a loophole and it's much much more likely that the victim faked her fall. I think Van Buren is upset because she doesn't want Lennie to screw up and get arrested for Perjury because she knows that Lennie genuinely didn't believe her. It's also a bad look for the NYPD. 

While I don't think she was faking. It wouldn't be out of character for Lennie to do something like that. He would want to get justice for her because she was murdered.