Season 3: Hello Lennie Briscoe!

[GHScorpiosRule]

And “Manhood” an episode that was more believable for me if it had taken place in the 80s than 90s. And gee, guess WE didn’t think any of the slurs were deemed bleep worthy-from the N-word to “Fag” and“Mick”🙄🙄

I wish this would have been the season ended instead of “Benevolence’.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay I could have SWORN I saw Liz questioning Beltran from the DVDs and original airing, but apparently I dreamt it all because it’s not on the DVD, and neither was Stone’s cross examination cut off. It seems WE is airing the complete unedited episodes. Just with more commercials.

I even watched the deleted scenes but those are only Mike telling Phil how he used to date a rich girl and the testimony of Beltran’s roommate.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Okay I could have SWORN I saw Liz questioning Beltran from the DVDs and original airing, but apparently I dreamt it all because it’s not on the DVD, and neither was Stone’s cross examination cut off. It seems WE is airing the complete unedited episodes. Just with more commercials.

I even watched the deleted scenes but those are only Mike telling Phil how he used to date a rich girl and the testimony of Beltran’s roommate.

It’s been a while since I’ve seen the episode but I’m certain Stone cross examined Beltran, they wouldn’t have an episode where the prosecutor didn’t cross examine the defendant. As for Olivet, I had it in mind that we saw her talk to Beltran as well but maybe we didn’t, maybe we just saw her testify and talk to the DA’s about Beltran.

[balmz]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It’s been a while since I’ve seen the episode but I’m certain Stone cross examined Beltran, they wouldn’t have an episode where the prosecutor didn’t cross examine the defendant. As for Olivet, I had it in mind that we saw her talk to Beltran as well but maybe we didn’t, maybe we just saw her testify and talk to the DA’s about Beltran.

unless the guy who played beltran appeared in another episode that had ben in it

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It’s been a while since I’ve seen the episode but I’m certain Stone cross examined Beltran, they wouldn’t have an episode where the prosecutor didn’t cross examine the defendant. As for Olivet, I had it in mind that we saw her talk to Beltran as well but maybe we didn’t, maybe we just saw her testify and talk to the DA’s about Beltran.

Yes he did, but the way WE edited it and went to commercial made it look as if the scene had been cut, but it wasn’t when I watched it on the DVD.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, balmz said:

unless the guy who played beltran appeared in another episode that had ben in it

He was, the actor, Luis Antonio Ramos just had one scene and he was a witness that the cops talked to. In “The Torrents of Greed” Part I. He told Max and Mike about what he knew about the beatdown. 

[Prairie Rose]

I wonder if L&O would have even lasted more than three seasons if not for Jerry Orbach. NBC, Wolf, etc., knew they'd be getting a great actor but got the added bonus of someone who almost singlehandedly made the set a better place to be because of his great attitude. (I think it was Dann Florek who said that in one of the DVD bonuses.) 

The cast, Season 3. Does this picture scream 1990s or what? 😁

[Spartan Girl]

Watching “Night and Fog” now. Look, I get why the daughter was so desperate to cover it all up. Imagine finding out your father, a Jewish man, helped the Nazis. But it still was frustrating.

And the lawyer was played by Captain Ross on CI! Ugh, he gets on my nerves no matter what part of the franchise h3s in.

Ben, as always, hits the nail on the head with his suitably blistering response to that asshole mewling about how nobody could understand the position he was in: “Your wife understood, sir. That’s why you killed her.”

[Xeliou66]

I saw Conduct Unbecoming today, and Captain Bunker was one of the biggest asshole murderers there is, he was a massive woman hating asswipe. I loved how Stone went after him on cross and got him to say “that bitch deserved it!” and Stone replies “which bitch is it, sir?”. Stone’s closing was strong as well, I liked how he methodically led the jury through the facts of the case. I really like this episode, a very good case, but my god I wanted to punch that blockhead asshole Bunker. And Schiff’s final line was spot on, after Robinette said he wondered if Bunker had ever read the constitution, Schiff replies “I doubt he ever got past the Declaration of Independence - all men are created equal” - Schiff has the best lines.

[Prairie Rose]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Watching “Night and Fog” now. Look, I get why the daughter was so desperate to cover it all up. Imagine finding out your father, a Jewish man, helped the Nazis. But it still was frustrating.

And the lawyer was played by Captain Ross on CI! Ugh, he gets on my nerves no matter what part of the franchise h3s in.

Ben, as always, hits the nail on the head with his suitably blistering response to that asshole mewling about how nobody could understand the position he was in: “Your wife understood, sir. That’s why you killed her.”

Yup, that was the second time Captain Ross played a lawyer in the Mothership. He had previously appeared in "Conspiracy".

By the way, Michael Moriarty was nominated for an Emmy for "Night and Fog". He lost to Tom Skerritt of Picket Fences. He went on to play a slimy judge on an episode of SVU.

[Prairie Rose]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I saw Conduct Unbecoming today, and Captain Bunker was one of the biggest asshole murderers there is, he was a massive woman hating asswipe. I loved how Stone went after him on cross and got him to say “that bitch deserved it!” and Stone replies “which bitch is it, sir?”. Stone’s closing was strong as well, I liked how he methodically led the jury through the facts of the case. I really like this episode, a very good case, but my god I wanted to punch that blockhead asshole Bunker. And Schiff’s final line was spot on, after Robinette said he wondered if Bunker had ever read the constitution, Schiff replies “I doubt he ever got past the Declaration of Independence - all men are created equal” - Schiff has the best lines.

On another note, we also got a couple of scenes of future The Good Wife co-stars Chris Noth and Julianna Margulies.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Prairie Rose

[GHScorpiosRule]

40 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

On another note, we also got a couple of scenes of future The Good Wife co-stars Chris Noth and Julianna Margulies.

Yeah, we discussed that back when this forum was turned into a single thread.

One can also now add that after this show, Lorraine Touissant and Chris Noth ended up on the updated  The Equalizer, though I don’t know if their characters ever shared scenes. But that’s moot since Noth is no longer on the show.

[Prairie Rose]

2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

One can also now add that after this show, Lorraine Touissant and Chris Noth ended up on the updated  The Equalizer, though I don’t know if their characters ever shared scenes. 

I believe they did, when Greevey and Logan are interviewing Green's client (played by another future Noth co-star, Cynthia Nixon) in "Subterranean Homeboy Blues". Maybe again in "Indifference", but I'm not positive.

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Prairie Rose said:

I believe they did, when Greevey and Logan are interviewing Green's client (played by another future Noth co-star, Cynthia Nixon) in "Subterranean Homeboy Blues". Maybe again in "Indifference", but I'm not positive.

 

No, you misunderstood. I don’t know if Noth and Toussaint shared any scenes in The Equalizer. Logan and Shambala did.

[Prairie Rose]

1 minute ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No, you misunderstood. I don’t know if Noth and Toussaint shared any scenes in The Equalizer. Logan and Shambala did.

Yeah, I misunderstood the question - I thought you meant L&O. I've never watched the new Equalizer, so I don't know if they had any scenes together there.

[GHScorpiosRule]

How did I NOT recognize her all these years???? Chelsea Altman, who played that one classmate of Beth's in "Forgiveness" was also Danielle in Season 7's "Good Girl" who killed her boyfriend and lied about him raping her. She was the one who said she didn't want to talk to the cops because they'd take Tommy saying that he couldn't live without Beth the wrong way.

Aside from having a strong moral compass, "Skin Deep" clearly demonstrates the deep core of compassion that inhabits Ben Stone. How he listened to Tracy explain how she came to kill Julian Decker. Nodding his head that she'd be better off at Spofford instead of prison.

And when he went outside the room to tell Shambala that she knew, he wasn't a jerk about it.

Maybe it was a prop mistake, but I don't think Tracy should have been able to wear that big ass watch on her wrist. It was so incongruous with the blue uniform she was wearing.

[Prairie Rose]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Aside from having a strong moral compass, "Skin Deep" clearly demonstrates the deep core of compassion that inhabits Ben Stone. How he listened to Tracy explain how she came to kill Julian Decker. Nodding his head that she'd be better off at Spofford instead of prison.

And when he went outside the room to tell Shambala that she knew, he wasn't a jerk about it.

This was one of Claire Danes' earliest roles, but she was so poised it's hard to believe she was basically a rookie. And yes, Ben Stone's compassion was a huge part of what made him such a great character.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just finished watching "Corporate Veil" and I wish the show had made it more clear how much, if any time, Mrs. Cleary had to serve. Or if, by both her and Steven testifying against Roger Cleary, for the other six deaths, if she wouldn't have to serve any time.

 

Ooooh! "Wedded Bliss" is on next! Can't wait for Judge Quinn's smackdown and Ben's as well!

ETA: Wrong episode! "Wedded Bliss" is the one about the sweat shop.

Edited March 2, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[Prairie Rose]

10 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Just finished watching "Corporate Veil" and I wish the show had made it more clear how much, if any time, Mrs. Cleary had to serve. Or if, by both her and Steven testifying against Roger Cleary, for the other six deaths, if she wouldn't have to serve any time.

 

Ooooh! "Wedded Bliss" is on next! Can't wait for Judge Quinn's smackdown and Ben's as well!

In the case of "Corporate Veil", I tend to think the latter and she would have gotten immunity. Anyway, I can't help but wonder why this is the only time Elizabeth Hubbard ever appeared on a L&O show. Ah, the glory days of NYC-produced soaps and their many actors who appeared in the L&O franchise - which really should be its own thread.

"Wedded Bliss" is another chilling episode. Patti D'Arbanville's greedy, unrepentant guttersnipe of a character made my hair practically stand on end!!

Edited March 2, 2022 by Prairie Rose

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well, well, well. I kept meaning to post this back when this was a single thread, but lookit here: Drake, the mealmouthed, cuckolded hubby would show up in season five's "Bad Faith" as the molesting/raping/defrocked priest Kurlinsky.

40 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

Ah, the glory days of NYC-produced soaps and their many actors who appeared in the L&O franchise - which really should be its own thread.

There is already a thread about the guest stars who appear on this show HERE It was more common that a lot of actors who were from the theatre/Broadway appeared on this show because the show was set in New York.

[Columbo]

What I liked, well maybe more found fascinating about the episode Prince Of Darkness is not just the stomach dropping final line, but the constant roadblocks put upon by a criminal organisation who were willing to do anything to protect themselves. When powerful instutions such as law and order can do nothing against such evil, it can be quite frightening.

 

Also I'm confused about Conspiracy. Was the ending implying that Marcus Tate was killed by his own bodyguard?

[GHScorpiosRule]

28 minutes ago, Columbo said:

Also I'm confused about Conspiracy. Was the ending implying that Marcus Tate was killed by his own bodyguard?

No. The thinking was always that it was his attorney? confidant? Roland Books (originally played by Joe Morton, but recast when the characters were revisited in season seven's "Entrapment") who was responsible.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just I noticed when Van Buren removed her wedding rings, it took Cragen until episode 16 for us to see him wearing his wedding ring!😄😄😄

UGH. Watching “Manhood” now.

[Columbo]

Just finished watching season 3. All episodes pretty good. 

- favourite episode was the one of the dodgy lawyer setting up her client. Lots of twists there.

 

- it annoyed me that everyone believed Susan Boyd from the episode Animal Instinct without ever doing any real further digging into her claims. Though the ending is a classic.

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, Columbo said:

favourite episode was the one of the dodgy lawyer setting up her client. Lots of twists there.

Are you talking about "Right to Counsel?"

2 hours ago, Columbo said:

- it annoyed me that everyone believed Susan Boyd from the episode Animal Instinct without ever doing any real further digging into her claims. Though the ending is a classic.

 

Well, they did sort of. Mike and Lennie found a bill from a private investigator that the wife had hired, because she thought he was cheating. They looked into it, but found no evidence of an affair. Except for those messages Susan left on Donald's machine.

[Columbo]

Yeah, right to counsel

[Xeliou66]

Right to Counsel is a favorite episode of mine as well, good twisty turning case where the lousy public defender tries to get her client to plead guilty to the crime he didn’t commit because her lawyer friend did commit the murder and was manipulating her. It’s Robinette who gets suspicious about it after the guy pleading guilty messes up the facts of the crime.

Season 3 has a lot of good episodes, Prince or Darkness will always be my favorite of season 3 though.

[Columbo]

It took me until this rewatch of the show to realise that Extended Family was partly based on Woody Allen.

[Prairie Rose]

Last night, our current EADA Hugh Dancy was on Seth Meyers. Mr. Meyers brought up the fact that Mr. Dancy's wife Claire Danes once guested on L&O (the S3 opener "Skin Deep"). Mr. Dancy confirmed this ("it was her first acting job") and gleefully added, "she was the murderer!"

[ML89]

On 8/2/2016 at 8:01 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Watched "Promises to Keep". Another guy killing his girlfriend, this time because he was having an affair with his shrink. Again, did not feel sorry for him. Yes, the shrink brainwashed him, but still, he STRANGLED his own girlfriend! 

I love the investigation side of this one - Mike and Lennie with the uniforms in the park is hilarious ("first year guys are like puppies"), plus them trudging up the street in the snow from bar to bar.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, ML89 said:

I love the investigation side of this one - Mike and Lennie with the uniforms in the park is hilarious ("first year guys are like puppies"), plus them trudging up the street in the snow from bar to bar.

I love the investigation in that one as well - a lot of really good detective work with memorable moments.

[Xeliou66]

I saw Prince of Darkness today, this is an all time great episode - great case and great intensity from start to finish. That ending of “she doesn’t have an uncle” is the most chilling and memorable in L&O history IMO, the look of horror on Adam’s face is unforgettable. The moment where the gun dealer shoots Cerreta is shocking as well. One twist after another in this one, just great. I liked Cragen getting a larger role in this one and seeing him get out in the field. Fantastic episode, one of my all time favorites.

[andromeda331]

On 4/13/2022 at 11:03 AM, Xeliou66 said:

I saw Prince of Darkness today, this is an all time great episode - great case and great intensity from start to finish. That ending of “she doesn’t have an uncle” is the most chilling and memorable in L&O history IMO, the look of horror on Adam’s face is unforgettable. The moment where the gun dealer shoots Cerreta is shocking as well. One twist after another in this one, just great. I liked Cragen getting a larger role in this one and seeing him get out in the field. Fantastic episode, one of my all time favorites.

The whole episode is really good. But yes the ending is one of the most chilling and heartbreaking endings. Everyone is dead. Even the little girl.

[Mellowyellow]

Pssst! GANG! I am trying to scan your comments in this thread to find what episode to watch but not get spoiled at the same time! No easy feat!

Am watching Forgiveness tonight! Any others you recommend for this season that are a standout? I have watched the fabulous Prince of Darkness already!

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Pssst! GANG! I am trying to scan your comments in this thread to find what episode to watch but not get spoiled at the same time! No easy feat!

Am watching Forgiveness tonight! Any others you recommend for this season that are a standout? I have watched the fabulous Prince of Darkness already!

From season 3, the following episodes are my favorites - Right to Counsel, Conduct Unbecoming, Promises to Keep, The Corporate Veil, along with Prince of Darkness and Forgiveness. Prince of Darkness is fabulous, arguably a top 10 all time L&O.

[andromeda331]

On 5/22/2022 at 3:53 PM, Xeliou66 said:

From season 3, the following episodes are my favorites - Right to Counsel, Conduct Unbecoming, Promises to Keep, The Corporate Veil, along with Prince of Darkness and Forgiveness. Prince of Darkness is fabulous, arguably a top 10 all time L&O.

Yes, it was. The ending still blows me away.

[Xeliou66]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yes, it was. The ending still blows me away.

Yes, it’s hands down the most memorable ending in L&O history IMO. Prince of Darkness is one of L&O’s near perfect episodes, and an example of an episode where there are lots of twists but it never got confusing and it all made sense. One of the most intense episodes as well, it was shocking when the gun dealer shot Cerreta and then the final twist that the grieving father was actually working for the cartel and killed the hitman to silence him, not out of revenge, all leading to the unforgettable ending.

[andromeda331]

17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes, it’s hands down the most memorable ending in L&O history IMO. Prince of Darkness is one of L&O’s near perfect episodes, and an example of an episode where there are lots of twists but it never got confusing and it all made sense. One of the most intense episodes as well, it was shocking when the gun dealer shot Cerreta and then the final twist that the grieving father was actually working for the cartel and killed the hitman to silence him, not out of revenge, all leading to the unforgettable ending.

That was another great moment. The murderer was so good at the grieving father routine that you didn't see what was coming until they revealed he skipped town. 

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That was another great moment. The murderer was so good at the grieving father routine that you didn't see what was coming until they revealed he skipped town. 

Yep that was a great twist, he played the grieving daddy role well. Prince of Darkness is coming on this evening at 6 eastern time, I look forward to watching, so much to love about that episode.

[TakomaSnark]

RIP to Mary Alice, who was outstanding in S3's 'Mother Love.'

[Xeliou66]

Just watched Wedded Bliss, this is a really good episode, disturbing case with slave labor and sweatshops. It was interesting seeing Logan and Cerreta track down the leads with little evidence and get to the bottom of things, and I liked the twist of Betty and Rudy sleeping together, I didn’t see that coming. Also shocking how they discovered the bodies of the workers at the grandmothers house at the end, Rudy and the Drake’s were just evil.
Logan lost his temper twice in this episode, and Phil warned him about it, I know we’ve discussed Logan’s temper before, his punching the councilman didn’t come out of nowhere. 

I loved Adam’s lines “I woke up this morning, I thought it was the 20th century” and “in politics, there are two choices, do nothing, do something. Nothing has fewer risks”. Adam’s lines are the best. I also liked Paul’s line “if my grandmother had a look like that she would fry eggs with it”.

Prince of Darkness is coming on soon, looking forward to watching it, one of my all time favorites. Season 3 is really great.

[Door County Cherry]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:49 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Right to Counsel is a favorite episode of mine as well, good twisty turning case where the lousy public defender tries to get her client to plead guilty to the crime he didn’t commit because her lawyer friend did commit the murder and was manipulating her. It’s Robinette who gets suspicious about it after the guy pleading guilty messes up the facts of the crime.

I just watched this one tonight.  It had been a long time since I had seen it and isn't one I watched over and over again.  I only vaguely remembered who the perp was when I saw him but not any of the details.

This is the kind of mystery I hope they go back to in the next season.  It's not ripped from the headlines (as far as I know) but rather the thread of greed runs through all of the suspects.  The boyfriend who may (or may not have) been dating the victim for her money but certainly enjoyed it.  There was her daughter who pretended to not be with her husband in order to maintain access to her trust fund.  There was the lawyer who wanted to be seen as upper class and killed to pay off his debts.  And then the public defender who became suspicious of her friend but was so desperate to be pulled out of the low level cases that she was willing to not push too hard to help her client.  

Thematic but full of fun surprises. 

[andromeda331]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Just watched Wedded Bliss, this is a really good episode, disturbing case with slave labor and sweatshops. It was interesting seeing Logan and Cerreta track down the leads with little evidence and get to the bottom of things, and I liked the twist of Betty and Rudy sleeping together, I didn’t see that coming. Also shocking how they discovered the bodies of the workers at the grandmothers house at the end, Rudy and the Drake’s were just evil.
Logan lost his temper twice in this episode, and Phil warned him about it, I know we’ve discussed Logan’s temper before, his punching the councilman didn’t come out of nowhere. 

I loved Adam’s lines “I woke up this morning, I thought it was the 20th century” and “in politics, there are two choices, do nothing, do something. Nothing has fewer risks”. Adam’s lines are the best. I also liked Paul’s line “if my grandmother had a look like that she would fry eggs with it”.

Prince of Darkness is coming on soon, looking forward to watching it, one of my all time favorites. Season 3 is really great.

That is such a great episode. The crime was so horrible. I love the way it unfolded and how disgusted the cops and lawyers were about it. Rudy and Betty sleeping together was a surprise. I didn't expected it. It was also a twist that Betty not only knew about the crimes and didn't care. I do love her husband deciding to take the deal because he's going to jail either way and wants to make sure she goes too. He's still an asshole but it's the first time he stood up to her probably ever. The bodies being buried at the grandmother's house was another surprise I didn't see coming. Adam had great lines.

The actress played Betty played Selena on Guiding Light from 1998-2000 who I loved.

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I just watched this one tonight.  It had been a long time since I had seen it and isn't one I watched over and over again.  I only vaguely remembered who the perp was when I saw him but not any of the details.

This is the kind of mystery I hope they go back to in the next season.  It's not ripped from the headlines (as far as I know) but rather the thread of greed runs through all of the suspects.  The boyfriend who may (or may not have) been dating the victim for her money but certainly enjoyed it.  There was her daughter who pretended to not be with her husband in order to maintain access to her trust fund.  There was the lawyer who wanted to be seen as upper class and killed to pay off his debts.  And then the public defender who became suspicious of her friend but was so desperate to be pulled out of the low level cases that she was willing to not push too hard to help her client.  

Thematic but full of fun surprises. 

Yeah Right to Counsel was a very good episode with some good twists and interesting suspects, it was interesting to see the lawyer trying to frame the other guy and the female lawyer going along with it, and how Paul noticed something was off. Strong episode. 

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That is such a great episode. The crime was so horrible. I love the way it unfolded and how disgusted the cops and lawyers were about it. Rudy and Betty sleeping together was a surprise. I didn't expected it. It was also a twist that Betty not only knew about the crimes and didn't care. I do love her husband deciding to take the deal because he's going to jail either way and wants to make sure she goes too. He's still an asshole but it's the first time he stood up to her probably ever. The bodies being buried at the grandmother's house was another surprise I didn't see coming. Adam had great lines.

The actress played Betty played Selena on Guiding Light from 1998-2000 who I loved.

Yeah it’s a great episode, horrifying crimes, and it was understandable how angry Logan was about it. Really good detective work in figuring out who the victims were and who did it, and the legal stuff was entertaining as well. 

[Xeliou66]

Just watched Prince of Darkness, this is a contender for my favorite episode of all time, just fantastic - great case with great intensity and excellent twists. That ending is just unforgettable “she doesn’t have an uncle”, and Cerreta getting shot was shocking as well. The episode is jam-packed with excellent stuff. I enjoyed seeing Cragen get out in the field and take on a very active role in the case. Great investigative and legal work, and I liked how despite all of the characters best efforts the heads of the cartel still couldn’t be brought down then, it made the show more realistic to have endings like that, and then the reveal of the cartel killing all of the witnesses including the little girl was just spine chilling.

Now I’m watching Point of View, Lennie’s first episode, and as it’s been noted before Lennie was a bit different at the start, more prickly and surly, fortunately he quickly became the more laid back, wisecracking character we know and love. Lennie’s comment about Mexicans and Italians killing for love and “micks” killing for money was very unlike Lennie, he never made any comments like that in the future. L&O’s introductions of characters haven’t always been strong. There were a couple of moments I liked, such as Lennie noticing the powdered sugar on the officer’s uniform at the start, and I liked the discussion between Logan and Cragen where Cragen said it wasn’t always love at first sight with Mike, which was true, and then Cragen saying “I want to know how long my mother in law is living with us. I don’t know, but I’m learning to enjoy her pot roast”. The case was strong, I liked the twist that it wasn’t a lover’s quarrel or self-defense but a mob hit. And it was nice that Cerreta got a goodbye scene with Logan. 

Season 3 has some really great episodes and I love the lineup of characters. It’s nice seeing these episodes again. 

[Spartan Girl]

“Forgiveness” is on and the defense attorney in this case pissed me off just as much as his client. Acting like his client was entitled to sympathy just because he was a poor immigrant and trying to frame him as “a lost little boy used and abused by a more mature woman**” instead of an obsessive gold-digger that murdered his girlfriend just because she dumped him.

You’d think I’d be used to slut-shaming the dead by now, but nope, still infuriating. God forbid that a woman feel entitled to break up with a guy when she finally realizes he’s using her to get ahead in life!

**The douchebag was a year older than his victim btw

Edited January 3, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Xeliou66]

20 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

“Forgiveness” is on and the defense attorney in this case pissed me off just as much as his client. Acting like his client was entitled to sympathy just because he was a poor immigrant and trying to frame him as “a lost little boy used and abused by a more mature woman**” instead of an obsessive gold-digger that murdered his girlfriend just because she dumped him.

You’d think I’d be used to slut-shaming the dead by now, but nope, still infuriating. God forbid that a woman feel entitled to break up with a guy when she finally realizes he’s using her to get ahead in life!

**The douchebag was a year older than his victim btw

I agree about really disliking the perp in Forgiveness, and I didn’t buy his sympathy and remorse act, I don’t think he lost control of his senses, I think he was just angry that his girlfriend broke things off with him so he killed her. I was glad the jury didn’t buy his not responsible defense. The defense lawyer didn’t really annoy me, he was just doing his job, trying to get the jury on the side of his client, but I agree his client wasn’t sympathetic at all and the defense was trying to blame the victim. 

[andromeda331]

On 1/3/2023 at 4:50 PM, Spartan Girl said:

“Forgiveness” is on and the defense attorney in this case pissed me off just as much as his client. Acting like his client was entitled to sympathy just because he was a poor immigrant and trying to frame him as “a lost little boy used and abused by a more mature woman**” instead of an obsessive gold-digger that murdered his girlfriend just because she dumped him.

You’d think I’d be used to slut-shaming the dead by now, but nope, still infuriating. God forbid that a woman feel entitled to break up with a guy when she finally realizes he’s using her to get ahead in life!

**The douchebag was a year older than his victim btw

 

On 1/3/2023 at 5:18 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I agree about really disliking the perp in Forgiveness, and I didn’t buy his sympathy and remorse act, I don’t think he lost control of his senses, I think he was just angry that his girlfriend broke things off with him so he killed her. I was glad the jury didn’t buy his not responsible defense. The defense lawyer didn’t really annoy me, he was just doing his job, trying to get the jury on the side of his client, but I agree his client wasn’t sympathetic at all and the defense was trying to blame the victim. 

Same here. He was a real piece of work. I don't know about the lawyer but I hated the defense. It's probably what the murderer wanted for a defense. His whole deal was the poor immigant who had a shitty life. But I have that issue with a lot of defenses. This one was crap. For one his life growing up wasn't that shitty. Two, no matter how bad his childhood was it's no excuse for killing his girlfriend for dumping him. She can break up with him if she wanted too. I hate the blame the victim which sadly still exists today. From what we heard she didn't sound so bad. Just someone who wasn't ready for marriage and not as serious about the relationship. He was using her to get the wealth and life that he wanted and thought he deserved. I'm glad the jury saw through his crap.  

[WendyCR72]

"Mother Love" is soon ending, the episode where a mother murders her drug-addict daughter out of some sense of mercy.

The now-late Mary Alice was so good as the mother. (She had a great career and was among those listed in TCM Remembers 2022 (as was Paul Sorvino).

Her despair and just...heartbreaking hopelessness over her daughter and describing their last moments was just so sad.

[TakomaSnark]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Mother Love" is soon ending, the episode where a mother murders her drug-addict daughter out of some sense of mercy.

The now-late Mary Alice was so good as the mother. (She had a great career and was among those listed in TCM Remembers 2022 (as was Paul Sorvino).

Her despair and just...heartbreaking hopelessness over her daughter and describing their last moments was just so sad.

Mary Alice was outstandingly haunting in that episode. RIP.