American Idol vs The Voice

[Lily Adler]

The show that popularized singing competitions against the one that innovated the format. The show that makes superstars against the one that revitalizes them. It's American Idol vs The Voice. Discuss your personal likes and dislikes between the shows from the judges to the format, and why is everything so amazing to them, dawg.

[Joystickenvy]

The Voice:

Likes:

Judges - though I am tiring of Adam & Blake

Blind auditions

No novelty/bad auditions

Treats contestants with respect

No "shocking twists" or elimination night non-sense

Worthwhile mentoring with credible industry folks

Confessionals usually amusing

Dislikes:

Knockout rounds too long and outcomes often feel pre-determined. I'd prefer they do one round, collect their steals and then go to playoffs & let viewers vote with the coaches getting one pick each to go lives.

Lives feel like an after thought with the endless blinds, knockouts, etc then Lickety split lives. Shorten the former & slightly lengthen the latter.

Winners - usually boring and/or mediocre, but that's probably a side effect of having to have mass appeal, though built in fan bases seem to have more impact on this show than others

Song selections - almost all the judges pick terrible songs....let the contestants pick their own terrible songs with the advise of their mentor

Twitter save - just no

American Idol:

Likes:

More memorable contestants over the years than The Voice

Hollywood week usually has some fun moments

Enough live performances to develop favorites

Dislikes:

Judges are usually annoying and their feedback is not usually constructive and sometimes mean

Mean spirited "shock twists" and elimination night non-sense

Mean spirited novelty & bad auditions - not as bad in recent seasons

Randy Jackson - annoying & gives bad advice

They always tease us with a few amazing auditions and then cast the same bland group of contestants every year

Seems to drag on forever

Out dated or stupid theme nights - not as bad this year

Blatant and excessive producer manipulation

Scripted fake dinners & such

Winners are usually bland and/or mediocre -see above

Edited May 11, 2014 by Joystickenvy

[adhoc]

I think this year AI has been trying to be more like TV.

Nevertheless, my overall thoughts:

 

Voice pros:  

• Blind auditions--folks can get through who could never even get to or get through HW week on AI.
• No age limit (AFAIK), although age ultimately plays a factor, even if just when it comes to contestant voting
• Judges have always been more pleasant to watch during competition
• I really enjoy watching the judges work with their artists (especially Usher). That is interesting.  Unlike AI, where we're expected to watch the contestants eat dinner, etc. (I never watch that, BTW, I leave the room.)
• I kind of like that it seems like a shorter season than AI.  However, I detested this new "3 people eliminated" twist this year.
• The "steal" is an improvement over the first season.

Voice cons:

• Adam and Blake. They need to take a break and let other judges get established. The better singers (IMHO, obviously) usually pick one of them, given the chance, because they have proven "win" records.  The other judges often get the less spectacular contestants. (Even Usher lucked into Josh because Adam had an embarrassment of riches.)  I can see those judges' frustration at not getting a chance with more of the best contestants.  And it frustrates me as a viewer. and frankly, I'm tired of Adam and Blake's "Pick me, I've already won x times..." It's getting very predictable.
• A three-person elimination?  Not impressed.
• Extra votes if your song is downloaded from iTunes. That's just wrong. Period.

AI pros:  

• Harry Connick Junior. Excellent judge. As good as Simon Cowell, but without the belittling, demeaning attitude. He has elevated this year's judging to a more useful level. Even JLo has had constructive comments (sandwiched in among the fawning comments).

AI cons:

• Age cap at 29.  
• Instruments can be used at every performance. For me as a viewer, this makes for wooden performances that are tremendously boring. Very few contestants wield a guitar like Keith Urban, who knows how to move around and engage the audience while playing, as well as when to stop playing for a minute and just engage with the audience.  Amateur singers, uncomfortable engaging or unable to engage with the audience (Alex, Sam, I'm looking at you) channel their energy into their instruments instead of into me, the viewer. I have come to resent it. I would not mind a rule like "you can use an instrument 3 times during the season", though.
• The venue/acoustics. (1) I can't hear the freaking contestants over the band, AI! Why can't you fix this? I also sometimes have this issue with The Voice. But it's very consistent with AI.  (2) The elaborate venue underscores the amateur quality of the contestants. They're trying to get used to too many things--the vast venue, ear pieces, huge audience, etc.--from the get-go. Better to start in a smaller setting and work up to the larger one when you're down to 6 or 7, I think.
• The band: The strong band simply underscores the amateur quality of the contestants. Better to used a stripped-down orchestra for most of the competition, only bringing the full band in when you're down to the better contestants who can compete against it.
• Treating the contestants like they are already stars, and therefore we viewers want to see what they do and say after the show. Newsflash: I have no interest in watching the contestants eat and schmooze with each other, and I leave the room when that crap is on.  These are not stars. Why do you think I give a sh** about anything but seeing their performance?
• Stupid, on-the-fly twists, like having the contestants vote whether someone should go or not.

 

Cons of both shows:  

• They let in performers still in high school. I believe you should have to be 18 to compete.
• They allow the audience to have to much voting power. I would like The Voice particularly to give the viewer vote only so much weight in determining who stays or goes home. The judges should make the ultimate decision of who goes home, IMO, until you get to maybe the final 5 or so. But once you get to the final 5, then I could see the audience vote determining who is eliminated.  As it is, I'm tired of seeing--if I may use this example--mediocre country singers hanging around because the "country" voting base supports their own. 

Edited May 11, 2014 by adhoc

[BogoGog24]

The Voice has a better voting system than Idol. Only THIS season did Idol finally instill limited voting. I also like the fact that iTunes downloads count as votes on The Voice. It entices more people to download the songs if they know they will count as extra votes. Usually the songs end up somewhere in the Top 10 on iTunes, which brings more exposure to the show and the contestants. Everybody wins. If you've noticed, the iTunes downloads have pretty much been a fail all season long this year with the exception of a couple contestants like Alex, Sam, and Caleb (on Rock) charting decently. The rest usually are lucky to chart within the Top 200 or Top 300. If they counted downloads as extra votes, more people would probably buy the songs and we'd see them chart higher.

 

What I like about Idol better than The Voice is that contestants, generally, can pick their own songs. I don't understand the point of having your coach choose songs for you. I guess the only good thing about it is that if the contestant gets saddled with a bad song choice, the coach is to blame and not the contestant. That being said, a lot of times the coaches have chosen horrible songs (ex: Bria Kelly- I'm With You, that girl that had to sing Wasting All These Tears)

 

The double elimination thing that TV has could be a good thing for some, bad thing for others. On the one hand, the competition is over with faster and allows the show to be on twice a year (which is good for those who want to try out) On the other, it doesn't allow us as much time to get to know the contestants and then a few short months later we have our winner who is expected to release an album. Also having it on twice a year may seem like too much for some people. At least on Idol we get to know the contestants a little more.

 

I also sort of like having theme weeks on Idol. This year they've been pretty broad so contestants could still choose pretty much whatever they wanted to. On TV it's just a bunch of weeks run together of random songs. I sort of like having themes so I can differentiate what happened in what week. Like "Oh Sam's performance of Sail Away was great, that must have been the Competitor's Choice week" It just makes it easier for me to remember specific performances if there were themes. And at least back some seasons ago, when they used to have more specific themes, it was interesting to see how David Cook was gonna spin a Mariah Carey song or how the contestants were going to do Andrew Lloyd Webber songs. It challenged them and forced them sometimes to go outside their box. When there's no themes or restrictions at all, it kind of makes things less interesting and doesn't challenge the contestants/coaches.

 

I'm sure from a contestant perspective they probably enjoy having coaches. Who knows how much time they really spend together off-camera but I'm sure they enjoy working together with the time they do get. Idol feels more impersonal when the judges are just there to judge but they don't really spend much time with the contestants. And the coaches sometimes stay in touch with the contestants after the show, especially the winners (Blake is known for doing that)

 

I think the biggest disadvantage that TV has versus Idol though, of course, is successful winners. Out of 5 winners, one never even released an album. They've had 2 successful country winners but have yet to find a successful mainstream pop winner. Even just looking at Kelly and Carrie alone, TV will probably never find one of those. TV may have won an Emmy but they don't have much to show for it. TV might be a cool, hip, modern show but they are a massive joke when it comes to winners. Idol may be considered outdated, tired, old, and lame by now, but they have plenty of, not only successful winners, but even non-winners as well. They have alum who have won Grammys and Oscars. There will never be a show that can match Idol. All these shows might try to be like Idol or try to revamp the "talent contest" concept, but none will ever match Idol. As Nicki Minaj once said, "They'll never come close." The fact that TV has to be on twice a year to keep people interested shows they're kind of a joke. The fact they've only managed to have a couple successful country winners shows they're a joke. Most of the people who go on TV are people who had failed record deals or were a backup singer for some famous artist or an Idol castoff. You get some of these on Idol as well but not nearly as many, or it's not made into a big deal the way it is on TV. Very rarely does Idol explain a lot of a contestants' previous professional experience. And out of 5 Voice winners, only one was actually a completely undiscovered talent.

 

Idol has managed to last 13 seasons, even if the ratings aren't what they used to be, they are still considered good. They have managed to produce several successful artists, winners or otherwise. It will be interesting to see how long TV can last or if they will produce that many successful alum. If they don't find a breakout mainstream pop winner in the next couple of seasons, I predict they'll get axed just like X Factor.

I forgot to mention, the only other thing I like about TV better than Idol is that there is no upper age restriction, as someone above noted. This gives more people a chance.

[kj4ever]

The Voice has a better voting system than Idol. Only THIS season did Idol finally instill limited voting. I also like the fact that iTunes downloads count as votes on The Voice. It entices more people to download the songs if they know they will count as extra votes. Usually the songs end up somewhere in the Top 10 on iTunes, which brings more exposure to the show and the contestants. Everybody wins. If you've noticed, the iTunes downloads have pretty much been a fail all season long this year with the exception of a couple contestants like Alex, Sam, and Caleb (on Rock) charting decently. The rest usually are lucky to chart within the Top 200 or Top 300. If they counted downloads as extra votes, more people would probably buy the songs and we'd see them chart higher.

 

What I like about Idol better than The Voice is that contestants, generally, can pick their own songs. I don't understand the point of having your coach choose songs for you. I guess the only good thing about it is that if the contestant gets saddled with a bad song choice, the coach is to blame and not the contestant. That being said, a lot of times the coaches have chosen horrible songs (ex: Bria Kelly- I'm With You, that girl that had to sing Wasting All These Tears)

 

The double elimination thing that TV has could be a good thing for some, bad thing for others. On the one hand, the competition is over with faster and allows the show to be on twice a year (which is good for those who want to try out) On the other, it doesn't allow us as much time to get to know the contestants and then a few short months later we have our winner who is expected to release an album. Also having it on twice a year may seem like too much for some people. At least on Idol we get to know the contestants a little more.

 

I also sort of like having theme weeks on Idol. This year they've been pretty broad so contestants could still choose pretty much whatever they wanted to. On TV it's just a bunch of weeks run together of random songs. I sort of like having themes so I can differentiate what happened in what week. Like "Oh Sam's performance of Sail Away was great, that must have been the Competitor's Choice week" It just makes it easier for me to remember specific performances if there were themes. And at least back some seasons ago, when they used to have more specific themes, it was interesting to see how David Cook was gonna spin a Mariah Carey song or how the contestants were going to do Andrew Lloyd Webber songs. It challenged them and forced them sometimes to go outside their box. When there's no themes or restrictions at all, it kind of makes things less interesting and doesn't challenge the contestants/coaches.

 

I'm sure from a contestant perspective they probably enjoy having coaches. Who knows how much time they really spend together off-camera but I'm sure they enjoy working together with the time they do get. Idol feels more impersonal when the judges are just there to judge but they don't really spend much time with the contestants. And the coaches sometimes stay in touch with the contestants after the show, especially the winners (Blake is known for doing that)

 

I think the biggest disadvantage that TV has versus Idol though, of course, is successful winners. Out of 5 winners, one never even released an album. They've had 2 successful country winners but have yet to find a successful mainstream pop winner. Even just looking at Kelly and Carrie alone, TV will probably never find one of those. TV may have won an Emmy but they don't have much to show for it. TV might be a cool, hip, modern show but they are a massive joke when it comes to winners. Idol may be considered outdated, tired, old, and lame by now, but they have plenty of, not only successful winners, but even non-winners as well. They have alum who have won Grammys and Oscars. There will never be a show that can match Idol. All these shows might try to be like Idol or try to revamp the "talent contest" concept, but none will ever match Idol. As Nicki Minaj once said, "They'll never come close." The fact that TV has to be on twice a year to keep people interested shows they're kind of a joke. The fact they've only managed to have a couple successful country winners shows they're a joke. Most of the people who go on TV are people who had failed record deals or were a backup singer for some famous artist or an Idol castoff. You get some of these on Idol as well but not nearly as many, or it's not made into a big deal the way it is on TV. Very rarely does Idol explain a lot of a contestants' previous professional experience. And out of 5 Voice winners, only one was actually a completely undiscovered talent.

 

Idol has managed to last 13 seasons, even if the ratings aren't what they used to be, they are still considered good. They have managed to produce several successful artists, winners or otherwise. It will be interesting to see how long TV can last or if they will produce that many successful alum. If they don't find a breakout mainstream pop winner in the next couple of seasons, I predict they'll get axed just like X Factor.

I forgot to mention, the only other thing I like about TV better than Idol is that there is no upper age restriction, as someone above noted. This gives more people a chance.

I don't think you can compare Kelly or even the country chick from Idol to a winner on The Voice.  The atmosphere in the music industry was VERY different back then.  Hell superstars have a problem with album sales.  Look at Christina A, she couldn't even sell enough to support a tour.

 

Idol has always seemed mean-spirited and geared towards diva singers.  Then The Voice came out and they picked people who weren't necessarily the biggest belters but had a great tone or style.  For me that is the main reason why The Voice is so much better and why Idol sucks ass.

[TheGreenKnight]

I personally prefer diva singers to singer-songwriter types who sing like Taylor Swift, so that's why I prefer American Idol in general. I also prefer Idol's format with the top 12 being narrowed down to the top 2 finale, although I've never cared for Auditions or Hollywood weeks.

 

But this is a hard question because are we talking about American Idol of the now or Idol of the past? Idol of the past is so much better than The Voice it's not even funny. The current Idol is pretty sad though, chasing trends and trying desperately to keep the marketable/young contestants from being destroyed by their aging viewer-base.

 

I do like The Voice more than Idol as it is right now just because Idol has gone down the tubes with Jennifer Lopez in the driver's seat. I would say The Voice has the better talent this year as well, but that's not really fair considering Idol is searching through unknowns and The Voice cycles through has-been's/never-were's who were already found. Idol has had better talent, overall. To me, the only thing The Voice really has going for it are the coaches' chemistry with one another, although Simon Cowell is easily the best person to have judged/coached/mentored either one of these shows. On the other hand, I hate the fake/undeserved praise of all the contestants, the plants, Carson Daly, the Blake domination, the lack of promotion for their winners, coaches in control of contestants' song choices, etc.

Edited May 13, 2014 by TheGreenKnight

[Joystickenvy]

Coping with an aging fan base is an area where both Idol & DWTS has generated some embarrassment for itself. On DWTS they keep casting Disney Kids and members of boy bands. Idol keeps pushing teenage contestants and packing the studio audience with squeeing Tweens.

Trying to hang on to past glory by going on about how Idol "makes stars", while also trying to copy The Voice & even X Factor, has also eroded the show's credibility. If the producers would just let the show grow old gracefully and quit trying to make Fetch happen they'd be much better off.

People will tire of The Voice eventually too, particularly with it running twice a year, but hopefully they will learn from Idol's mistakes and not hasten the decline by panicking and making things worse.

[SnarkGhost]

I enjoy both shows.  I've only watched AI for a couple seasons, so I don't have the same amount of burnout that a lot of people have.  I was as turned off by the Nikki Minaj/Mimi dramatics as I was by the Adam/Christina drama in Season 2/3, but besides those flareups, I like both shows.

 

To me the difference is, as judges (as opposed to coaches/teams), American Idol positions itself to a place where the actual criticism is possible.  Doesn't mean it happens (and gets boo'ed by teenage munchkins when it does), but the criticism is possible and wouldn't interfere with the "game" aspect in the same way it causes problems on the voice.  I don't want to get rid of the team structure, because that's part of the Voice "package", but it would be nice if there was a "5th coach" whose job it was to attend all the practice sessions and critique the performances.  Televised, of course, for our entertainment.

 

This particular season, I'd say that the last 3 on AI are better than any of the last 5 on the Voice.  I wouldn't have thought it would turn out that way at the start of the season.   AI was looking terrible at the beginning.  I think it only had 3 good people to begin with, but they all made it to the end. 

[Joystickenvy]

It's a matter of personal preference but if you merged this year's AI final 5 with the voice final 5 I'd rank them in terms of who I'd prefer to listen to, not necessarily who I think is the best singer, as:

10. Jake

9. Sam

8. Grimmie

7. Alex

6. Josh

5. Kat

4. Jena

3. Kristen

2. Caleb

1. Jessica

[viajero]

I really don’t think you can compare any of these shows today with AI in its heyday.  At the time it was something fresh and new, with no real competition.  The post-show market was certainly very different for contestants than it is today. If we compare just this season of The Voice with the current season of Idol (and I don’t think either show has had a particularly good season), I give The Voice the following advantages:

 

1. A much larger group of relatively good singers (the entire Top 20 on The Voice was better than all but the top 4 or 5 of the AI contestants)
2. The coaches compared to the Idol judges
3. The team set-up, with the coaching this offers the contestants
4. The audition process (weeding out the less accomplished singers before they get on our TV screens)
5. A much better band (Paul Mirkovich is the ultimate pro as musical director for one of these shows, and they even got Justin Berrico back on lead guitar this season)
6. The battle rounds vs. Hollywood and Rush Weeks (though I would have preferred they keep the KO Round)
7. The Mentors

 

Where I give Idol the edge:

 

1. Not rushing through the live shows so fast you don’t get a chance to identify with the singers
2. The songs (more unexpected recent stuff that I never thought I'd hear on one of these shows vs. played out golden oldies from my childhood – many of which I didn’t like much even back then)

3. Giving more of a chance to inexperienced contestants (though The Voice has had a few successful rookies like Jake this season, or Danielle Bradbery and Jacquie Lee in the previous two seasons)

 

My top 10 from both shows based on who I find myself most eagerly looking forward to seeing each week (and not limiting myself to the top 5 on each show):

 

10. Delvin

9. Alex

8. Tess
7. Jessica
6. Kristen
5. Josh
4. Caleb
3. Kat
2. Jena
1. Christina

 

I readily accept that this ranking has mostly to do with musical preference and/or who is capable of pulling off something surprising that blows me away (like Christina on the Drake song, Kat with Get Lucky or even Delvin with Bright Lights).  If it was based strictly on pure vocal ability, Josh would be so far ahead of everyone else that it wouldn’t even be close.  Unfortunately, at least half the songs he’s done are just not my thing. 

 

I guess what it comes down to is that if Josh does a song I don’t like, I can appreciate his vocals but still can’t get into the song.  At least this is better than Alex, who for all that he is a good vocalist and undoubtedly creative (perhaps more so than Josh), has even made me dislike songs I normally like by sucking all the life out of them.  In contrast, while Christina and Jena have been much less consistent vocally, they have also produced some of my favorite performances of the season on songs where I actually don't like the original.  They've both taken a lot of risks that sometimes haven't worked, but when they have worked ... wow!.  Also, since one of the reasons I watch these shows is to be entertained, I'll take Kat bouncing around the stage blasting out a metal version of Get Lucky any day over Josh's technically perfect rendition of I Can't Make You Love Me.

Edited May 17, 2014 by viajero

[Joystickenvy]

That's pretty much how I feel about Josh, Alex, Jena & to some extent Christina as well.

So far, I've only really liked Christina a couple times, but her Drake song was maybe the only truly memorable performance of the live rounds on this season for me. Unfortunately, she's had more stinkers than good performances and I've lost hope in another good one.

Jena is similar in that she's had 1 performance that is a favorite of the season, plus a few others that I thought were good, plus a few real clunkers.

I think Josh is a fantastic singer, but I just don't enjoy what he does. Alex is a competant singer, but he does that sensitive guy singer whine affectation too much for my taste and when he isn't already singing a sensitive man song, he's neutering a song I actually like in order to turn it into a sensitive man song. Not my thing.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Joystickenvy

[SnarkGhost]

2. The songs (more unexpected recent stuff that I never thought I'd hear on one of these shows vs. played out golden oldies from my childhood – many of which I didn’t like much even back then)

 

Agree with this, with the caveat that the beginning of the season had endless repetitions of Radioactive, Stars, Counting Stars, Halo, etc.   But from the top 10 on in particular, American Idol has really expanded its song selection.  And...the band seems like its doing a better job.

Edited May 18, 2014 by SnarkGhost

[TheGreenKnight]

I was as turned off by the Nikki Minaj/Mimi dramatics as I was by the Adam/Christina drama in Season 2/3, but besides those flareups, I like both shows.

 

Honestly, the Adam-Christina drama bothered me much more (mostly the things Adam and his contestant said to Christina when she never had to throw names at them), but I think general audiences reacted more to the Mariah-Nicki "thing" because of the age difference and because of Mariah's stature, whereas Adam and Christina are closer to being even in the audience's eyes.

 

I agree that The Voice in general has an overall stronger cast because Idol has always had 3-5 who stand out from an average pack of contestants. I believe Idol does this on purpose because it makes the good contestants seem that much better and helps the elimination process, they probably don't want to waste strong talent as fodder on one season when they could win on another, and feeds into the whole concept of the show as a (supposed) "singing contest" so audiences will intentionally compare vocals.

[Rum Punch]

I'm an AI watcher from way back, so I have a sentimental attachment to it that I don't have with The Voice, but I also have some specific issues with the way The Voice goes about it's business as compared to American Idol.

 

First, I think the blind auditions are a gimmick.  Sure, the coaches don't know what the artists look like during the initial audition, but as soon as the chair spins they know, and with the coaches unilaterally making the decision on who advances for an extended period of time, there is ample opportunity for them to get rid of the physically unappealing during the Battle and Knockout rounds.  Also, to pretend that the only factor in stardom is vocal ability is unrealistic.  Just ask Shakira.

 

To that same point, I don't like the coaches having the final say for so long.  What is the point of even televising the first five or six rounds if the viewing public has no imput?  Why not just let the coaches whittle their teams down to three members in private, until they are ready to let us vote.  Often I think the coaches already know who they want, and the performances are immaterial.  Whenever I hear a coach say to an artist, "Going forward", or, "looking to the future", I know it means, "It really doesn't matter how well you sang, you were never making it out of this Battle Round."   At least in AI's Hollywood Week, where we the public also has no influence, there is some drama, real or manufactured, to keep us entertained.  With The Voice it's like, I really like Dawn and Hawkes, but Adam doesn't like Dawn and Hawkes, so, goodbye Dawn and Hawkes.  Very frustrating.

 

Lastly, I have a problem with the coaches cutting members of their own team.  Just a few weeks ago they were pleading with an artist, begging them to join their team, "I love you, I have to have you, we'll win this thing together!", and now they're saying, "See that door, don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out."  Just wrong.  And then the poor kid has to stand there and thank the coach for giving them a chance.  Just once I'd like to see the artist go, "You son of a bitch, you said you loved me!"  Better to let the voters do all the cutting.

[yourpointis]

Rum Punch just for this:

 

Lastly, I have a problem with the coaches cutting members of their own team.  Just a few weeks ago they were pleading with an artist, begging them to join their team, "I love you, I have to have you, we'll win this thing together!", and now they're saying, "See that door, don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out."  Just wrong.  And then the poor kid has to stand there and thank the coach for giving them a chance.  Just once I'd like to see the artist go, "You son of a bitch, you said you loved me!"  Better to let the voters do all the cutting.

 

 

if that ever happened on live television, I would support that singer till the end of time. Even if they produced an album of just grunts and other unintelligible noises. : )

[Song of Roland]

And in the end, they both end up with a WGWOG winner, only Idol's (ironically) is a lot younger than TV's. And neither will be heard of a year from now.

 

I sometimes wonder if part of the reason for the decline of the young demographic for both of these shows has something to do with the special snowflake attitude of the last generation- contests to see who's 'the best' are uncomfortable for the teens/20 somethings to watch when they're accustomed to getting a medal just for showing up. Although I do think TV's youth demo decline has been accelerated by the number of 'mature' singers they're obliged to include (since age and looks don't matter on TV!).

[poppy-]

If you're a Glee watcher, here's Adam Lambert

Is Adam Lambert on topic? Well, he's an example of what none of these contestants are.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHRxji4p1rs

[Kromm]

If you're a Glee watcher, here's Adam Lambert

Is Adam Lambert on topic? Well, he's an example of what none of these contestants are.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHRxji4p1rs

With respect Poppy, that's not a live performance.  If its Glee, that's heavily studio mixed and lipsynced during the filming.  It's apples to oranges (a better comparison would be one of Lambert's Idol performances).

[mercfan3]

That's a good point..(not that he sounds or performs any different..) 

 

 

 

He's just fantastic. There's a reason that despite the fact that it was six years ago, and a different show..people still got mad at poor Taylor three names for singing one of Adam's covers..(And I thought Taylor did a really good job, to be honest.)

 

There's only about two or three people, from either show, that I'd put ahead of him vocally. And he's the best performer, period. (With Chamuel, IMO, coming in a distant second. But those two are very different performers too.) 

Edited November 2, 2014 by mercfan3

[poppy-]

Right, fair enough, Glee isn't live. I posted that in the episode thread because someone had said they'd never heard of Adam Lambert. It's just a different frame of reference for people who don't watch AI.  It got moved here, a little out of context.

 

What I was really talking about in terms of what Lambert (and the best of AI contestants) vs The Voice contestant is charisma and stage presence.    Adam coming into AI was already a Broadway veteran..... but several of the Voice contestants came in with damn impressive accomplishments too. I didn't think Taylor 3 Names matched Adam Lambert's Mad World in terms of just spellbinding the audience. Theatrical or not, Lambert's was arresting, and Taylor's was just very good.  Just IMO.

Edited November 2, 2014 by poppy-

[mercfan3]

I think, in general, its unfair to compare anyone to Lambert. There have been incredible contestants on both shows..but there's just no other combination of Lambert's stage presence/performance ability and vocal ability. And then add in that he was actually creative with his note choices and the way he changed up songs (For instance, his Cher cover..) That it's just unfair to compare. It is unlikely that someone that good, in all areas, will walk through the door of an audition room. My point was really, if you haven't seen Lambert, and you appreciate talented musicians...go see Lambert. 

 

This is an interesting topic for me, for a certain reason. My favorite contestant, of all time, either show, is Haley Reinhart. But ironically, her season is what ended my love affair with Idol (i'm a reality singing competition junkie.) Why? Because I watched that girl essentially get bullied every single week. And then I started to notice things about Idol that I really didn't like, particularly with how they deal with young women. For instance, there was the Jessica Sanchez issues. They gave her adult songs to sing, that she hadn't picked (like "My All) and her female dateline NBC martyr song "Change Nothing.." and then slut shamed her because she wore a white dress. Even last season, they once again..bullied "The pretty girl" in Jessica Muse and slut shamed the other pretty girl, Emily Pirez. That particularly bothered me, because they made such a big deal out of the sexuality aspect of the song she sang, but talked about what an incredible musician a male contestant was..when the song was just as sexual. (Alex sang "Volcano")..if not more so.

 

And then you compare it to The Voice..where I've heard SO many contestants talk about how wonderful they were treated by the coaches. I'm most familiar with Chamuel, and when I listen to what she has to say about Usher and the show..and compare it to what Reinhart went through..it's night and day. And that's really where Idol vs. The Voice begins and ends for me. The treatment of the contestants, because..at the end of the day..these are real people and i have no interest in watching a contestant get essentially bullied..or watching the female contestants fall victim to sexism..that I just prefer the Voice. 

 

I like The Voice format so much too. I love the idea of coaches..I like the different rounds..and I've loved every single Voice coach we've had. I have my favorites, but I don't even dislike Cee Lo..I love the variety of contestants. I prefer the big voice singers..but I don't need every contestant to be big voiced, and I like the variety. Not only that, but since season 3, there has yet to be an undeserving winner. Sure, there have been contestants that arguably also deserved to win..but no one could really say that Pope, Bradbery, Chin, or Kaufman didn't deserve to win. All were consistently good to great every week. 

 

The one thing I'll give Idol is when it gets to the live shows..it's a little harsh. I think someone like Bria Kelly, or Matthew Schuler..young people who seemed to choke under the front runner status, would have done a lot better had they had a few extra weeks..(Like Jena last season..it went from Jena is going to be eliminated soon, to Idol better thank god Jena is in this competition..) For the younger contestants especially, I think the rapid way they are eliminated makes it more pressure filled and probably harder for them to adjust to singing live on television and getting comfortable. (Which is something that makes Jacquie Lee and Danielle Bradbery so special.) 

[BogoGog24]

I'm pretty sure the reason contestants like Emily were "slut shamed" was because they were too young to be singing songs like that. I distinctly remember Harry saying he felt that if Emily was going to do a bold song like that, she needed to bring the confidence and swagger that the song required. She didn't. She looked like an awkward teenager trying to play rockstar in her mom's clothes in front of her bedroom mirror. Any contestants under the age of 18 should not be singing overtly sexual songs. They did not give Alex the same criticism, as he was at least 19 or 20 and old enough to sing a song about sex. He was also far more artistic than Emily and understood the real meanings and lyrics behind his song choices. I don't think Emily knew what she was singing about, nor could she connect to it. That was Harry's criticism. If I remember correctly, she was either 18 by the live shows or about to be 18 and I guess maybe Harry's comment was that if that's the kind of artist she wanted to be, fine, but she needed to understand what she was singing about and sell it convincingly, which she did not. The criticism had nothing to do with "slut shaming" her (hate that term, by the way), but that she didn't connect to what she was supposed to be singing about.

 

Many of the criticisms Jessica Muese received last season I think were valid. She had dead eyes most of the time. One thing I did not like though was that they kept telling her to get rid of the guitar but never told Alex. I do also agree they treated Haley really badly in Season 10. I think there is always at least one contestant (usually female) that is the whipping boy. For some reason they are held to a different standard than other contestants. I don't know what the judges' aims are when they critique contestants at different levels. Whether they do it intentionally to rile up the fan base and get more votes, or they do it as some sort of reverse psychology to make the audience like that contestant better than the others, I don't know. The Voice is just as guilty of favoring some contestants over others.

[mercfan3]

Emily was also 18, and Alex brought no more "swagger" than she did.   Emily understood the message of the song just fine, it was Harry that took it too far. And I would say that Alex probably didn't get "Volcano." It was sexist, plain and simple. If you are going to criticize one kid for singing sexual lyrics because they are young and because they don't show they understand them, criticize the other too. Harry's comments weren't "you need to bring a swagger" anyway. They were "is that REALLY the type of artist you want to be." As in, she shouldn't be sexualizing herself. He made those comments to a few different women during the season too. Or when he told MK he liked her with makeup on her (IE more feminine.)Those are just a few of the examples I could bring. It's evident throughout Idol's entire existence but really started to show itself since season 7. The sexism is a huge problem with Idol. 

 

And Jessica Meuse's criticisms were valid..but they didn't criticize anyone else to the extent they did her. And that's what made it unfair. (Not to mention the obvious bussing.) And that's another little sexist example, the females are always expected to do more..and aren't able to "hide" behind their instruments. (Although that happens from fans of both shows. Bria Kelly got a lot of criticism for her guitar playing, when really.. what she did was no different than pretty much every other guy who has played the guitar on this show, ever...ie: only play it for part of the song, not have it plugged in..) 

 

The Voice favors contestants a bit..but it is not in the same way. There isn't any mistreatment of contestants (Usually the worst is making them go first every night..) and The Voice really doesn't have the same incentives to do it as Idol does. There is a preferred winner, of course (whoever Republic/Big Machine) wants..but there isn't a whipping boy (er..girl..really). Which is really what I care about.  And the reason Idol does it is because they want to get rid of that person..which I just don't like. 

 

Of course, as I said..I'm a junkie, and I still watch Idol..and for years that was my favorite show..but it's turned me off in a lot of ways. 

Edited November 3, 2014 by mercfan3

[BogoGog24]

I can't really blame Harry for questioning Emily's song choice. Don't forget that he has daughters of his own, of course he's going to ask that when he sees a young woman singing something like that. I think if that was what she really wanted, he wouldn't have cared, I think he just wanted to tell her to make sure that was what she REALLY wanted. There are already so many female singers out there playing the sex card. Look at artists like Taylor and Adele- they've managed to make millions because of their talent without taking their clothes off or acting sexy. I think Harry was trying to let her know she didn't HAVE to be sexy if she didn't want to. Unfortunately many young girls today probably feel the only way they'll be noticed/successful in the entertainment industry is by acting sexy, singing suggestive songs, and wearing little clothing. I think, as a dad and a mentor, Harry was letting Emily know she had other options. If that was the route she REALLY wanted to go, then fine. And I completely disagree that she knew what the song was about. As I said, to me her performance came off like a teen girl playing rockstar in front of her bedroom mirror. I didn't find it very convincing at all. Alex's performances were on a whole other level in comparison to hers. I think that's rather obvious given the fact Emily was eliminated in 12th place and Alex came in 3rd. Clearly the general audience didn't care for Emily's performances.

[mercfan3]

She explained what the song was about (A woman going after what she wanted)..which is EXACTLY what the song is about. Harry focused on the lines "You've got me down on the floor, so what'd you bring me down here for." Meanwhile, the lines "Don't hold yourself like that, you'll hurt your knees." Wasn't mentioned. That song about an older man using a younger woman for sex when she's in love with him. Alex didn't understand that in his performance..or he didn't show he understood it..but he still got praised. When Caleb, who was only a few years older than Emily, sang "Dazed and Confused"..the sexuality aspect of the song was never mentioned. When Dexter sang "Cruise" it wasn't mentioned. Sam, who is younger than Emily, sang "We Are Young" a song about an abusive relationship..and song meaning isn't mentioned. 

 

There should not be double standards for men and women. my point all along was that if you are going to tell the young 18 year old girl not to sing about sex, you better tell the young 18 year old boy to not sing about sex. That's the problem with the show. Instead, Emily was painted as not knowing who she was and what she was doing and being overly sexual..and Alex was a musician. That's what's wrong with the show. It's not fair to do that to women and not do that to men. And Emily was not the only female contestant that Harry did that too. 

 

And there aren't just double standards when it comes to sexuality on the show. Honestly, I think I could write a book on the sexism in American Idol. (Heck, I could just focus on Haley Reinhart there..but there are so many other examples..) And The Voice just doesn't have that problem. Or at least the show doesn't make it that problem. (Always being accepting of different sexualities, allowing women to be sexy on stage..I can't say how the fans feel.) 

 

BTW: after that performance, both Alex and Emily were safe. So it seems the audience liked Emily's performance just fine. (She was even predicted to be finished fourth.) It was only after she performed that horrible Jennifer Lopez song that she was eliminated. (And she had been safe the week before that too.) 

Edited November 3, 2014 by mercfan3

[BogoGog24]

There's a difference between "young" and underaged. The only one I agree about is Sam. They should have definitely said something about a 17/18 year old singing about domestic violence and bars. The others, no. The judges would have looked stupid criticizing 22 and 23 year olds for singing about sex when they are well above the age of consent. 

 

Didn't Jessica sing Call Me one week? I don't believe they criticized the song choice, in fact I think they praised it because it gave her the opportunity to move around the stage a little and show more personality. Haley was also notorious for playing the sex kitten card really well in her season. The difference between Haley and Emily is that Haley did it way more convincingly. Nobody ever criticized Haley for trying to be sexy because it came off very natural and tasteful. Emily looked way too forced, imo. 

[TheGreenKnight]

I agree that American Idol is pretty hard on female contestants starting with Haley Reinhart, but I see that as just another wonderful addition Jennifer Lopez brought to the show. Simon usually preferred the female contestants when he was on the show and the only times I remember Paula unfairly targeting a female contestant was when she was flirting with one of the judges. Of course, Simon did comment on how the female contestants were dressed sometimes. But that's nothing compared to Harry Connick, Jr.'s slut-shaming.

 

Thankfully, I haven't really noticed anything like that happen to a contestant on The Voice. (The female coaches, on the other hand...)

Edited November 4, 2014 by TheGreenKnight

[rollerblade]

Syesha Mercado's acapella cover of Love on Top. In a dressing room. Dayum! If I dare say... I think it's better than Beyonce's.

 

 

Sugar could only dream.

Edited November 6, 2014 by rollerblade

[mercfan3]

The girls singing backup are better than Sugar too. Of course, Bryana also does an excellent cover of it. 

Edited November 7, 2014 by mercfan3

[jjjmoss]

After Swift's guest mentor stint this season, Idol's weekly mentor will be her label head, Scott Borchetta. Hmm.

[ToxicUnicorn]

From the S08: E26 Semi-Final thread, TheGreenKnight said this:

 

This show isn't as bad as Idol

 

Hulu automatically queued up the Idol semi-finals after this week's Voice episodes, and I let it run.  Big mistake.

 

Holy smokes, is Idol awful.  Three out of the four semifinalists' songs were worse than anything I've ever heard on the Voice.  JLo's comments sounded completely wrong and desperate.  Even Harry Connick Jr., who I've heard is the only one with standards, seemed to have given up.  Yikes. 

 

Makes me appreciate The Voice more.  I wonder, though, what is the next new wave of programming going to be, now that competitive reality seems to be (to me) on its last legs?

[mercfan3]

Idol has been terrible for a few seasons now. 

 

Candice Glover was excellent, but the talent really ended in Season 11. The Voice got popular and the best amateurs started going there..plus, if you are female..there's no reason to go to Idol. You won't win. 

 

Jax can have good performances. She's nothing special. She's not technically great. But occasionally she can be good. Sarina was the only real vocal talent the show had, but of course she was eliminated like..13th or something. 

[rollerblade]

Hulu automatically queued up the Idol semi-finals after this week's Voice episodes, and I let it run.  Big mistake.

 

Holy smokes, is Idol awful.  Three out of the four semifinalists' songs were worse than anything I've ever heard on the Voice.

 

The week before semis was pretty good, at least for Nick. He had 2 great performances that night. Jax is a non-entity to me, as I automatically tuned out anything she does. There were no single episode where the overall performance average are "good and above", but there were some gems here and there.

 

Normally I'm all over those multiple-instruments-playing musicians, but Clark doesn't do it for me for some reason. His stage persona comes across like a creepy pedophile to me. He has like 2 facial expressions... which I suppose is 1 more than Joshua Davis has lol. Not surprisingly, his performance of Every Breath You Take is the only one I liked.... it being a song about a stalker and all.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6lxypi5qs0

Edited May 13, 2015 by rollerblade

[Padma]

I liked how Clark made "Every Breath..." into almost a love song, rather than a stalker song. (Q: How does someone sing like a creepy pedophile v. someone who is just creepy?)

[rollerblade]

Isn't that exactly what Keith said? That he kinda turned a stalker song into a love song.

 

Perhaps the comment about creeper pedophile style is unfair. I don't really follow AI much anymore, the 1st time I saw Clark sang was on the song Yesterday (Beatles). Gosh! He turned a quiet melancholy song into some kind of diva anthem; and did so with that weird unfocused stares, along with a side of squinty scrunchy face. I was thinking, in Simon's words, "what the hell was that?"

 

I also had been rewatching season 4 of Dexter at night, so the scene with Arthur + kid in jammies was fresh in my mind. I know the Arthur character was not a pedo, but that scene is creepy. Since I had not seen Clark before "Yesterday", I didn't know that's how his expressions are. I went on youtube for his AI videos, randomly picked 3 songs that are "different" from each other.... and started cracking up at how his face is the same on everything. From Sunday Morning to Make It Rain to It's a Man's Man's Man's World.

 

I really missed S2 of Idol. The vocals aren't great except for 2-3 people, but the vibe is fun - at least the contestants are different enough from each other. S8 was kinda fun too, especially with class slown Matt Giraud impersonating Danny Gokey in the one of the clips. I guess what I missed the most is the "personalities" aspect of these shows?

 

No staging, no production value, 1 piano(?).... still more memorable than most group songs on Voice -

[jjjmoss]

Billboard reports that Idol will be 4 weeks shorter; I would find it hilarious if the 4 weeks that were cut were the live elimination ones, and they're adopting Voice's double elimination format, given how several Voice fans hate it.

 

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6805220/american-idol-final-season-cut-four-weeks-short