S07.E11: Secret Garden

[KingOfHearts]

23 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Or maybe they were trying to squeeze in that joke the doctor made at the vending machine how sugary drinks can "kill her". 

LOL. For some reason I was thinking it was alcohol, but you don't get that out of a hospital vending machine. In the final scene, it almost looked like she passed out drunk.

Quote

The show tried to "explain" it by saying the amulet only resurrected people who haven't "surrendered" to the other side yet.  So what does that mean in terms of Underbrooke?  They were halfway there?

Too bad Regina couldn't have used it on Daniel. He was preserved, much like Anastasia, and his soul seemed to be still in his body, if The Doctor was any indication. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Oh my gosh, you are all totally not getting the full experience and impact of the episode with all these misunderstandings!

I did have a question that I was hoping everyone could answer for me.  Couldn't Gothel just steal the rare orchid?  Why did they need to do the sacrifice inside the greenhouse?

Why did Zelena need to absorb the amulet's magic, when you could just pass it around and do magic just because you're holding it?

[KingOfHearts]

3 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Why did Zelena need to absorb the amulet's magic, when you could just pass it around and do magic just because you're holding it?

Zelena learned the hard way that keeping your magic in an object isn't the best idea back in 3B. But then again, it did resurrect her.

Quote

I did have a question that I was hoping everyone could answer for me.  Couldn't Gothel just steal the rare orchid?  Why did they need to do the sacrifice inside the greenhouse?

Because she's a lazy hippie who has never taken a bath in her life. Are we sure she wouldn't melt if we threw a bucket of water on her? Her hair has been a clue all along!

Edited March 3, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Tremaine stole the amulet to go to the greenhouse, and Regina and Zelena nonchalantly go to visit Lucy at the hospital?  I guess they couldn't care less about stopping whatever Gothel was up to?  

[Shanna Marie]

Why would Victoria have needed to buy the bar from Roni to get the amulet from the old sign? We already know she's not above sending a thug for a little breaking and entering, and Roni probably never would have even known it was missing, since Regina didn't know exactly where it might have been and didn't know what the thing in her old sign was the instant she got her memories back. Victoria was willing to do all kinds of crazy things, but she drew the line at sneaking in after hours to snag the amulet?

The Weaver and Rogers stuff really is odd. Weaver is so halfhearted about trying to keep Rogers from doing anything disastrous, in spite of Rogers having no clue. And how did Rogers think Victoria died? He thinks he's from our world, so he wouldn't know about life force being magically drained, or anything like that. If someone said "human sacrifice," he'd look for a slit throat, a heart cut out, or something like that. It would be funny if he managed to come to the "magic is real!" conclusion on his own.

[Camera One]

At the very least, Ivy should have said "Eloise Gardener was here and she killed my mother."  Wasn't that the point of Rogers finding Ivy and Victoria?  Otherwise, someone having a heart attack in a greenhouse isn't necessarily the scene of a crime.

[KingOfHearts]

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

At the very least, Ivy should have said "Eloise Gardener was here and she killed my mother."  Wasn't that the point of Rogers finding Ivy and Victoria?  Otherwise, someone having a heart attack in a greenhouse isn't necessarily the scene of a crime.

Why didn't Rogers find it suspicious that Ivy was there? The whole crime scene looked super questionable. 

Also, INB4 it's revealed Alice who did the drawings in the journal.

Edited March 3, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

Why would Victoria have needed to buy the bar from Roni to get the amulet from the old sign? We already know she's not above sending a thug for a little breaking and entering, and Roni probably never would have even known it was missing, since Regina didn't know exactly where it might have been and didn't know what the thing in her old sign was the instant she got her memories back. Victoria was willing to do all kinds of crazy things, but she drew the line at sneaking in after hours to snag the amulet?

Good point.  Victoria eventually just gave up on getting the bar back after the premiere, anyway.  Plus we've never heard a thing about this resurrection amulet in 7A.  

[Rumsy4]

When did Zelena move from Storybrooke into some random farm in some random realm?

She also said some nonsense about Gothel being powerless in "their" Realm, as she belonged to the Disenchanted Forest. It's all so ill-defined. 

[Camera One]

20 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

When did Zelena move from Storybrooke into some random farm in some random realm?

This gives us something really exciting to look forward to.  I'm sure they'll enlighten us later in the season.

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She also said some nonsense about Gothel being powerless in "their" Realm, as she belonged to the Disenchanted Forest. It's all so ill-defined. 

I was confused about that too.  She was powerful enough to whisk Robyn away from afar.  So Mother Nature = Mother Gothel in Witch-speak?  

Edited March 4, 2018 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

6 minutes ago, Camera One said:

So Mother Nature = Mother Gothel in Witch-speak?  

Apparently. Why was she mentioned in Cora's spellbook if she was powerless outside her Realm?

[Camera One]

What's the point in getting summoned to her anyway?  Clearly, she just screws you over and uses you as a human sacrifice.  Wouldn't that be a page to rip out and throw into the fire?  Or was she BFF with Cora so she could come back for another guest star role?  Maybe Cora adopted her as a daughter and the 3 sisters can reunite when they touch the Dandelion of Lost Memories.  The Coven is the Sisterhood of the Travelling Coat Hanger.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

And what was Regina thinking giving this dangerous spell book to her niece?

[Camera One]

4 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

And what was Regina thinking giving this dangerous spell book to her niece?

And this was before she became free-wheeling all-new-relaxed Roni.  The uptight and controlling Regina would never do that.  Regina knew that spell book led her down a dark path.  

Edited March 4, 2018 by Camera One

[StaceyNotStacie]

16 minutes ago, Camera One said:

And this was before she became free-wheeling all-new-relaxed Roni.  The uptight and controlling Regina would never do that.  Regina knew that spell book led her down a dark path.  

I wonder if this was after Henry left town. Maybe she wanted to endear herself to her niece since she and Zelena were the only family she had left in town. 

[KingOfHearts]

3 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

The timeline is so wonky, people are going to wind up meeting themselves. 

Hook: "Sorry, love. It's poker night with Nook."
Regina: "And I'm having a tupperware party with Wish Queen and Clone Queen."
Robin: "I'm having a seance so I can communicate with myself!"

Edited March 4, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[thuganomics85]

Beginning of the end, everybody!  Woo!

Yikes, that death scene was hard to watch.  No, not because I give a damn about Tremaine and the "sacrifice" she was making for Lucy and Drizella, but because Gabrielle Anwar was really stinking up the joint there.  I have no idea what happened since I really liked her on Burn Notice, but she was honestly pretty bad throughout all of this, and tonight was the worst.  I won't miss her or the character, although I'm glad she at least got a dig in over how ridiculous it is that Regina keeps getting passes for her past actions (of course, this show had Regina dismiss it with a "I'm not a monster!", which I'm sure quite a few dead souls would really disagree with that.) 

On the flip side, Adelaide Kane was trying her hardest to make all of this work and provoked a smidgen of emotion out of me, which is saying something considering how bad this particular relationship was.  In the end, I still don't buy that Tremaine had any feelings other then resentment for Drizella, and all of this feels unearned.  Having watched Reign the past few months, I kind of just wished they cast Megan Follows as Tremaine instead, because she and Kane had great back and forth banter, and were able to form a complicated relationship, so I might have been able to use that to buy this one (I know, I know.  Totally a stretch.)

Other then that, same old, same old.  Gothel continues to underwhelm as a villain, and Hook/Rumple seem like they're off on another show at this point.  The flashbacks were at least kind of fun due to Zelena/"Nook" (are they going to be a thing, now?  I thought they were trying something with Hook/Tiana, but I guess they forgot that character exists), even though Robin was a fucking brat, and has automatically lost a lot of cool points for good.  I'm even underwhelmed by Regina/Zelena now, because them being so close now feels unearned.  Good to know that the bar was basically a Logan's Roadhouse back when Zelena was around.

At least there was barely any Jacinda, although she still managed to have time to bitch about the doctor daring to get a drink.  Sorry, lady.  You can take a moment to relax and recharge.  You need to hover over Lucy and everything involving her 24/7, stat!

Well, lets see if these guys can right this ship in eleven episodes and give something resembling a decent series finale.  Not getting my hopes up, though.

[Rumsy4]

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Gabrielle Anwar was really stinking up the joint there.  I have no idea what happened since I really liked her on Burn Notice, but she was honestly pretty bad throughout all of this, and tonight was the worst. 

That was some spectacularly bad acting from her this episode. But the lines they gave her were also so peculiar. Why would she tell her own daughter that their "interests align" so they should work together? She was talking to Ivy as if to a business rival. I could not buy either her hatred of Ivy nor her sudden volte-face at the end. And apparently she was also fond of Lucy. Sure... 

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

The flashbacks were at least kind of fun due to Zelena/"Nook" (are they going to be a thing, now?  I thought they were trying something with Hook/Tiana, but I guess they forgot that character exists)

Just because they shared a scene together doesn't mean they're a thing in the Show, especially as their daughters are sort of dating or something. However, I did see someone on tumblr shipping them. I do think in the Show, they initially had some idea of a WHook/Tiana ship, but I guess they changed their minds (either so they could get Naveen, or to not piss of the few CS fans still watching the Show). 

[KingOfHearts]

I have mixed feelings about Gothel. She's genuinely creepy and makes you shiver, which the Black Fairy kind of failed at. I don't even mind that she's an evil rapist, but the problem is that most of her crimes will probably be brushed under the rug. I'm totally okay with a villain who does evil things in a "stranger danger" kind of way. I just don't want to see her redeemed or given a sad backstory that absolves her. The actress does a pretty good job, though. I wouldn't touch Gothel with a thirty-nine and a half foot pole.

[Camera One]

Gothel is better than the Black Fairy, but she's still not giving me the "delicious villain" feeling that we've gotten with villains in the past.  Maybe it's because she still feels a little generic.  You wouldn't even think she's from the Rapunzel tale if you didn't watch previous episodes.  

5 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

That was some spectacularly bad acting from her this episode. But the lines they gave her were also so peculiar. Why would she tell her own daughter that their "interests align" so they should work together? She was talking to Ivy as if to a business rival. I could not buy either her hatred of Ivy nor her sudden volte-face at the end. And apparently she was also fond of Lucy. Sure... 

Victoria is a high-powered business woman, you know.  I feel the same as you.  It's common to not believe her change her heart at the end, but I can't even buy her vehement hatred of Ivy to begin with.  Remember Cora's deathbed change of heart?  Many thought Cora was still playing with Regina with her "You would have been enough" but A&E later said Cora was really genuine and it was a truly heartwarming moment.  LOL.  A&E thinks telling us how we're supposed to feel is enough.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

41 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Victoria is a high-powered business woman, you know.  I feel the same as you.  It's common to not believe her change her heart at the end, but I can't even buy her vehement hatred of Ivy to begin with.  Remember Cora's deathbed change of heart?  Many thought Cora was still playing with Regina with her "You would have been enough" but A&E later said Cora was really genuine and it was a truly heartwarming moment.  LOL.  A&E thinks telling us how we're supposed to feel is enough.

At least Cora had her heart put back in her. There's no reason for Victoria's sudden change of heart. 

[Camera One]

A&E would say there was a reason.  Victoria realized that Drizella/Ivy DID love her, and she realized that her treatment of her daughter was wrong.  They would probably say that Victoria was nowhere near the villain Cora was.  A&E claims that Victoria reclaimed who she used to be, by sacrificing herself for Drizella/Ivy.  Plus we now know that not having a heart doesn't prevent someone from loving.

But yeah, it was a total fail.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

19 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

And what was Regina thinking giving this dangerous spell book to her niece?

Yeah, given that Regina, Zelena, and Cora had all gone down the path of civilization-destroying levels of magical evil, you'd think they'd be very careful about letting that kind of thing fall into the hands of the next generation, especially without someone to provide teaching and guidance. I would hope that this means it didn't take Henry and Ella that long to get together and have Lucy so that Regina didn't give that book to a child instead of to a 16-year-old. If Regina gave that book, then she owed it to her sister and niece to stick around and train her, or at the very least tell Zelena so Zelena could provide some guidance. But mostly I think that was a klunky way to explain how Robyn was doing magic and to give the sisters something to spat over while playing out the "cool Aunt Regina" dynamic, which is kind of ludicrous, especially in Storybrooke. Not too many teenagers would see hyper uptight pantsuit lady as cool.

I rewatched the parts up to the scenes I missed and a bit after, and I agree that Zelena did know about the second Hook, but I noticed how they seem to be actively avoiding saying anything about Baby Jones. Wouldn't it be natural to give an update to Henry, at least? Or to remark to Whook about how the real Hook also became a softy after becoming a father? I don't know if they're avoiding saying anything to leave their options open for what's up with that family in case they need to say or do something later, or if it's a passive-aggressive thing that they know viewers want to know about, but they're brattily leaving it out.

The whole "we need to test for donors" thing still makes no sense at all. There are only a few organs that can come from living donors, and there are issues about doing transplants from adults to children because of size. You can't fit an adult kidney into a child's body. That whole thing was so clumsy that I thought the doctor was somehow shady and it was a ploy on her part to get proof that Henry was the father. All it would have taken to fix that would have been a line about Lucy's organs starting to fail. Just saying they needed to do tests for donors in case of an emergency was so lame.

There was a question at the beginning of the thread about whether the dialogue has always been this klunky, and I don't think so. In past seasons, there were a few times when I became painfully aware that these were people speaking lines, but most of the times that was more on the acting than on the writing. Usually, it was a guest actor obviously working under the assumption that there are no small parts, only small actors, and making the most of their one line, or else the "reading the lines off the cue cards phonetically without their glasses" sense. But this season, I keep getting that "these are actors saying lines" feeling because they're being forced to say things that not only are out of character for the character but out of character for human beings. Everything is just in the service of making the plot work, so there are a lot of really clumsy lines. Some of the returning cast are doing better at delivering these lines because they've had years to internalize their characters and mostly make it work, but the new cast members don't have as much to work with. Their characters are shallower to begin with, they don't have years of background with these characters, and so they don't stand a chance of finding a way to make these lines sound in any way natural. How could anyone believably play Victoria hating her daughter the way she did for the reasons she did, and how could anyone believably play having a change of heart over one bit of information she should have known about years ago rather than realizing that she's the adult in this situation and building a relationship with a child was on her, not on the child?

[Camera One]

2 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

That whole thing was so clumsy that I thought the doctor was somehow shady and it was a ploy on her part to get proof that Henry was the father. All it would have taken to fix that would have been a line about Lucy's organs starting to fail. Just saying they needed to do tests for donors in case of an emergency was so lame.

I did think the doctor was shady from the beginning.  Maybe she was asked to play it that way?  The Gloved Hand was pretty stupid.  Now he or she will have Weaver and Rogers, Superdetectives, on the hunt for them.  Oh, never mind.

5 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

There was a question at the beginning of the thread about whether the dialogue has always been this klunky, and I don't think so.

This script was written by Adam and Eddy themselves, the holy grail of writers.  They did write a few good zingers for Zelena and Whook, so they're not bad script writers per se.  

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, XrystalPond said:

Back a few years ago in Days of Our Lives there was a gloved hand doing stuff like mixing up Petri dishes and embryos. I was flashing back on that. 

That's what it reminded me of too.  Soap opera techniques.  That's why it felt so cheap to me.

[Shanna Marie]

Hmm, could Lucy's supposed baby daddy be the Gloved Hand? Wacky thought I just had. Is he suspicious of Henry's relationship with Jacinda, put the doctor up to the test, then killed the doctor and stole the results? It would be like these writers to have seen the comments about how he had more chemistry with Jacinda than Henry did and then abruptly make him into a serial killer.

53 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I did think the doctor was shady from the beginning.  Maybe she was asked to play it that way? 

It's like watching CSI, where you could never be sure whether the suspect was a bad liar who was supposed to sound unconvincing or whether the suspect was played by a bad actor who wasn't very convincing in the role. But in this case, I kind of blame the writing, since there's no way to play that scene without coming across as inauthentic. Is it a badly written scene that isn't very convincing, or is the doctor supposed to be shady, maybe working for the Gloved Hand, but it turns out that the Gloved Hand just wanted a way to get that info, then killed her and took the test results? But what villain who came over in the curse wouldn't have already known that Henry was Lucy's father? Unless maybe it's a villain who's not awake yet, so the villain is being true to character in being evil, but is only starting to be aware that something is going on.

[legaleagle53]

On 3/3/2018 at 12:18 AM, Camera One said:

Here are a few quotes to laugh over from A&E about this episode (EW post-episode interview):

Uh, there's a difference between not being "perfect" and murdering multiple people.   That's all she has to do to "reclaim" who she was?

 

Why not, since it worked for Cora?  All she had to do was get Regina and Zelena to reconcile by restoring the memory of when they were BFFs as children, and despite the fact that she, too, had murdered multiple people, it was enough to redeem her and give her passage to The Better Place instead of The Worse Place, which is where even she thought she was going.

On 3/3/2018 at 2:07 PM, Camera One said:

The show tried to "explain" it by saying the amulet only resurrected people who haven't "surrendered" to the other side yet.  So what does that mean in terms of Underbrooke?  They were halfway there?

 

Pretty much.  Underbrooke was basically a Purgatory-ish waystation for souls that hadn't quite been good enough to go directly to The Better Place or evil enough to go directly to The Worse Place because those souls had "unfinished business" left over from mortality.  How they resolved that "unfinished business" in Underbrooke determined where they would eventually go once that business had been resolved.

Edited March 4, 2018 by legaleagle53

[Camera One]

8 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Hmm, could Lucy's supposed baby daddy be the Gloved Hand? 

Yeah, my first guess was also Nick.  Then, Jacinda would also be in danger without knowing it as she pals around with her ex so there would be sooooooooooo much tension.

But as suggested above, it could also be a New Big Bad to take over from Gothel after we find out her sob story.  

It could also be Rumple being controlled by the dagger, Zelena's normal boyfriend, Dr. Facilier, bodyswitched Sabine/Tiana, Wish Henry, the list goes on and on.  There are really no clues, as per usual with this show, so it could be anyone and they could change their mind last minute.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

It could also be Rumple being controlled by the dagger, Zelena's normal boyfriend, Dr. Facilier, bodyswitched Sabine/Tiana, Wish Henry, the list goes on and on.  There are really no clues, as per usual with this show, so it could be anyone and they could change their mind last minute.

It'll be like the movie Clue, where there are multiple endings and the Gloves are multiple people. 

We'll find out all of S7 took place in an Alternate Land Without Magic and all the characters we've seen aren't the same ones from S1-S6 at all. Or this is all Henry's Wish Realm. If these writers were anyone else, I'd think the timeline inconsistencies were deliberate to show it's not real. It all plays out like a crappy fanfiction, more so than the rest of the series.

Edited March 4, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

So do you think Lucy had lost all memory of her conversation with Victoria, who confirmed that she was Rapunzel?

[KingOfHearts]

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

So do you think Lucy had lost all memory of her conversation with Victoria, who confirmed that she was Rapunzel?

I don't think anyone will care, to be honest. Lucy already goes around spouting fairy tale stuff. They're not going to believe her.

[Camera One]

That's a good point.  It's pretty much irrelevant, whether or not she remembers, much like practically everything that happens on this show.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

That's a good point.  It pretty much irrelevant, whether or not she remembers, much like practically everything that happens on this show.

Lucy's entire slumber is pointless. In S1, Henry going into coma was directly what caused Emma to believe and ignited the season's climax. But here, it's unclear how much Henry actually believes. Victoria caused her own death by putting Lucy to sleep and taking the amulet to Gothel. She wasn't consequential any more, anyway. Now Drizella has the drive to redeem herself possibly, but it's not like her mother's death was the only way for that to happen. 

You know what's bad storytelling? Regina and Zelena were angsting in the winter finale over whether to save Henry or Lucy. Now that dilemma is gone and Gothel solved the problem for them. None of the conflicts that were brought up in 7x10 were relevant by the end of 7x11, except for the Coat Hangers.

Edited March 4, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

The whole "we need to test for donors" thing still makes no sense at all. There are only a few organs that can come from living donors, and there are issues about doing transplants from adults to children because of size. You can't fit an adult kidney into a child's body.

All they needed to suggest was a blood test. Have Nick's blood group be incompatible with Lucy's. Maybe Henry, Lucy, and Jacinda have O-, and Nick's is AB+. Why overcomplicate things just to toss it out makes no sense. But that's in line with the Show's writing. Remember when Hook recorded that voice mail to Emma only to have Rumple wipe that out? 

5 minutes ago, Camera One said:

It pretty much irrelevant, ... much like practically everything that happens on this show.

[Camera One]

5 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

You know what's bad storytelling? Regina and Zelena were angsting in the winter finale over whether to save Henry or Lucy. Now that dilemma is gone and Gothel solved the problem for them.

 

They were also angsty about that in this opening to this episode to remind us of all the angst.  But then BEFORE they saw Lucy was awake, they were joking casually even though they knew a villain was taking a dangerous human sacrifice amulet to the megavillain and someone might die.  I mean, no normal humans would act like this.  

6 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

All they needed to suggest was a blood test. Have Nick's blood group be incompatible with Lucy's. Maybe Henry, Lucy, and Jacinda have O-, and Nick's is AB+. 

LOL.  You just ruined A&E's reel when they apply to become the showrunners of the next "House", "ER" or "Grey's Anatomy".

Edited March 4, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

9 minutes ago, Camera One said:

LOL.  You just ruined A&E's reel when they apply to become the showrunners of the next "House", "ER" or "Grey's Anatomy".

Why did the paperwork say "PARENT" or "NOT PARENT", when it was just a blood test? 

[Camera One]

Look, this is THEIR interpretation of how medical tests work, just like this is THEIR interpretation of all these fairy tales.  They were they first writers to give Snow White a sword.  Now, they are the first writers to transform a routine medical test into an easy-to-read paternity test.

[Shanna Marie]

26 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Why did the paperwork say "PARENT" or "NOT PARENT", when it was just a blood test? 

If they were just testing for donors, it would have been "match" or "not match." A parent could possibly not be a match and a total stranger could be a perfect match, depending on a lot of factors that go into typing for organ donation (my friend's husband desperately needs a kidney, so I hear a lot about this). So, is it incompetent writers who couldn't be bothered to so much as read a Wikipedia article on organ donation, or is it a clue that this really was a veiled attempt to get proof that Henry is Lucy's father, that the doctor was in on it, and then someone killed the doctor, possibly to cover the tracks?

[Rumsy4]

I was cringing when the unnecessary organ donor test turned into an unexpected paternity test. And then made irrelevant. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

If they were just testing for donors, it would have been "match" or "not match." A parent could possibly not be a match and a total stranger could be a perfect match, depending on a lot of factors that go into typing for organ donation (my friend's husband desperately needs a kidney, so I hear a lot about this). So, is it incompetent writers who couldn't be bothered to so much as read a Wikipedia article on organ donation, or is it a clue that this really was a veiled attempt to get proof that Henry is Lucy's father, that the doctor was in on it, and then someone killed the doctor, possibly to cover the tracks?

I think they wanted to demonstrate that potential for Lucy's paternity coming out was a motive for the Doctor's murder and couldn't think of another way to do it that didn't require the Doctor to speak with Jacinda, Henry, or Nick.  Remember, we the audience are dumb.

[jhlipton]

On 3/3/2018 at 8:08 AM, Shanna Marie said:

Ooh, I know a solution to this particular timeline wrinkle with Robyn: Zelena got impatient with the terrible twos and sent Robyn off to camp or boarding school in some other realm where time moves faster, so she went straight from toddler to teenager, when she would presumably be easier to deal with.

Robyn is a victim of SORAS[*]!!!!  That makes so much sense!!!

[*] Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome

On 3/3/2018 at 10:28 AM, Camera One said:

I find it funny that A&E expected anyone to remember the lantern episode.

I mostly remember that scene because of the groans it caused in the forums!

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

Victoria was nowhere near the villain Cora was.

But if Cora was a villain, then Snow would have been justified in killing her... Whoops!

6 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Robyn was doing magic

Did anyone notice that in their ripoff homage to The Craft, they had to throw in a line about lasagna, even though it made absolutely no sense?

[Camera One]

Since when was Roni's Bar originally Roni and Kelly's?  I don't remember that mentioned, ever.  Even in the last episode before the winter break.  What was the point of such a retcon?  Just so they could embed the resurrection amulet in the middle of a sign?  

Edited March 5, 2018 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

What was the point of such a retcon? 

So Zelena could be cool and smash the sign to get the amulet.

[KingOfHearts]

14 hours ago, Camera One said:

Since when was Roni's Bar originally Roni and Kelly's?  I don't remember that mentioned, ever.  Even in the last episode before the winter break.  What was the point of such a retcon?  Just so they could embed the resurrection amulet in the middle of a sign?  

I guess it gives Regina and Zelena something to do with their sisterly bonding. Honestly, those two running a bar would be more interesting than whatever S7 has been so far.

[Shanna Marie]

17 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Robyn is a victim of SORAS[*]!!!!  That makes so much sense!!!

All the kids are. Even the infants have grown to be adults while the adults haven't changed at all. Worse, the adults (with the possible exception of Regina) haven't even changed their clothes in all this time. Zelena's still wearing one of the same outfits that she wore before Robyn was born when Robyn's 18. Emma was still wearing the same jeans, white top, and red leather jacket 15 or so years later. The only thing Hook had changed was switching from black jeans to blue jeans (or were those his old black jeans, but faded from being washed so many times?). Lucy also got SORASed, going from being played by a doll to being 8, while nothing else around her changed.

[CCTC]

26 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

All the kids are. Even the infants have grown to be adults while the adults haven't changed at all.

I am guessing Baby Neal is still a baby.  I think he aged about one month the three years he was on the show.

I could see them having another last supper scene in the finale - Henry is 30, Robyn about 25, a little blonde girl of about 8 who is supposed to be Hook and Emma's child, and Snow will be holding Baby Neal.

29 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Emma was still wearing the same jeans, white top, and red leather jacket

When they had her wear the hair extensions, I was thinking, you know we the viewers would have been are smart enough to figure out who she is without making her wear bad extensions and the same red jacket.  People do change their looks over time, or at least get new clothes...  Having her with her shorter hair would have been a good way to show time had passed.

[KingOfHearts]

7 minutes ago, CCTC said:

I am guessing Baby Neal is still a baby.  I think he aged about one month the three years he was on the show.

But how can Snowflake be a baby when Robyn grew up in Storybrooke?

Edited March 5, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[CCTC]

5 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

But how can Snowflake be a baby when Robyn grew up in Storybrooke?

I was joking with all of the age inconsistencies (and how the baby never seemed to age into toddlerhood), but it actually would not completely shock me if they did bring Snowflake back for the finale, his age would make no sense compared to the other kids.

[rogvortex58]

Still not entirely sure what Gothel gets out of Lucy being awake.

[Rumsy4]

2 minutes ago, rogvortex58 said:

Still not entirely sure what Gothel gets out of Lucy being awake.

It makes no sense why she would actually bring Lucy back to life instead of that glass ball lady.