S04.E09: Don't Run

[DearEvette]

And here I was thinking they were doing a great job of balancing the romance and the action, keeping the show still a superhero show while not shortchanging the relationships.

[DearEvette]

I think last season was a failure on every front -- tone, character, story, romance etc.  It did no one any favors, it was too dark, didn't make any narrative sense, regressed Iris, misused Tom Felton, badly deployed Killer Frost, and gave us the worst incarnation of Harrison Wells, imo.  If any time was to bail on the show it as last season.

SO far this season has been a major improvement in every area.  The hardest part to pull off, imo,  is the long story arc and I think they are pulling that off admiably so far.  It is difficult to give us a season long villain and parcel out his villainy in such a way we keep invested and entertained and also give us little surprise twists to keep up invested in the story.  Also, to give us someone to both dislike and admire because you have to be engaged in the villain as well as the hero, or else the story gets hard to watch *cough* Negan *cough*.  They've managed to do that this season with Devoe.  The only thing the are falling down a bit on, is making the heroes do out of character stuff, even dumbing them down a bit to make plot work.  You don;t have to do that.  You can keep your heroes smart, just make your villain smarter.

And I do like that they aren't sacrificing the romance but are also not letting the romance cannibalize the show.  We are getting a nice amount of Barry/Iris that deepens their relationship but it isn't at the expense of the bigger plot.

[ruby24]

8 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

And I do like that they aren't sacrificing the romance but are also not letting the romance cannibalize the show.  We are getting a nice amount of Barry/Iris that deepens their relationship but it isn't at the expense of the bigger plot.

If only they would let them kiss or touch each other like an actual couple. Ever. They might as well be roommates for how asexual they are.

[BaggythePanther]

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

And I do like that they aren't sacrificing the romance but are also not letting the romance cannibalize the show.  We are getting a nice amount of Barry/Iris that deepens their relationship but it isn't at the expense of the bigger plot.

I’m taking my respond to the relationship thread.

[KirkB]

I think Thawne worked well as a season long villain in 1 because he was intimately connected to Barry becoming the Flash and of course his mother's death and he had a lot of story to tell. Zoom and Savitar, on the other hand, were enigmas you didn't see very often and didn't know anything about until halfway through the season, and they gave you less reason to care. Devoe, not being connected to Barry or the speed force, and being a long term planner instead of a hit and run attacker, is literally designed for this kind of story arc.

Edited December 20, 2017 by KirkB

[KirkB]

2 hours ago, doram said:

I actually feel that they've made the same mistake with Devoe that they did with the previous villains after Thawne - make him a personal nemesis of Barry instead of somebody that just wants him out of the way, for some other long-term endgame.

I get what you're saying but I don't really agree. We got a pretty good idea of why Thawne hated Barry so much. We never really found out why Zoom went to all the effort he did to come after Barry. And EvilBarry/Savitar was part of a nonsensical storyline in the first place. Devoe's interest in Barry doesn't really seem to be personal. I don't get the impression he hates Barry like Thawne and Savitar did, nor does he seem to need Barry for anything more beyond creating the dark matter explosion. Barry is basically just a pawn to Devoe, and one he is sending off to jail because he doesn't need him anymore but he might again in the future, which is why he is keeping him alive instead of finding a way to kill him. It's his first big mistake, the same kind most "I am so superior" villains tend to make and it will end up costing him I'm sure.

[DearEvette]

6 hours ago, KirkB said:

Zoom and Savitar, on the other hand, were enigmas you didn't see very often and didn't know anything about until halfway through the season,

With Zoom and Savitar the reveal of their actual identity was part of the story arc.  The problem with that is that is by the time they were revealed so much crap had happened you forgot why you even cared or even forgot what their actual beef was in the first place.  And in the case of Savitar, the end didn't quite match up with the beginning (or if it did, then it was so convoluted it was too hard to trace back). 

I like that at least it seems like with DeVoe it is relatively straight forward.  He does seem to be playing a chess game with Barry and Team Flash being both his opponents and the pieces he's moving around the board.  He is thinking four moves ahead and they are still catching up.  But, I'd characterize Barry not as the pawn, but more is more like the King, the piece he has to completely stymie and box in before he can declare checkmate.  I wouldn't say he is at checkmate just yet, more like 'check' because obviously Team Flash is going to come out triumphant, we just need to see how they maneuver Barry out of this mess.

If the showrunners/writers can manage to restrain themselves from getting too fancy with too many flourishes like they did with Savitar, and keep this a story of a two opponents out-thinking each other, Devoe has the potential to rival S1 Thawne as the show's best villain, imo.

[ruby24]

I think one of the things Harrison Wells/Devoe have in common is the fact that they were played by a good actor, rather than "guy under a mask" most of the season. Cavanagh and Sandilands relished their roles and were a compelling human presence, both of them.

[KirkB]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

I think one of the things Harrison Wells/Devoe have in common is the fact that they were played by a good actor, rather than "guy under a mask" most of the season. Cavanagh and Sandilands relished their roles and were a compelling human presence, both of them.

I definitely think that's a big part of it. We knew, by the end of the first episode of the Flash, that Harrison Wells was a bad guy and that Cavanagh was having one hell of a time playing him. We got to see Sandilands face in the first episode of this season and he has been a presence throughout. But for at least half of Zoom and Savitar's run they were nothing but masks, with no real identity or face until so much later you really weren't able to form much of a connection to them. It wasn't helped by the fact Sears as Zoloman/Zoom was, IMO, not too interesting to watch and RemnantBarry/Savitar usually looked just as confused as the rest of us as to what the hell was going on. 

[KirkB]

16 hours ago, doram said:

I don't think seeing the villain's face was really that important.

My larger point was that in the first season we knew Harrison Wells was a speedster and a bad guy, the one who killed Barry's mother in fact, from the very first episode. It was the characters who were kept in the dark. We just didn't know he was actually Eobard Thawne until later.

With Zoom, the question of his identity was a major part of the story. Along with his actual motivations. Which, to this day, I still don't really understand. But they made the reveal a big deal, even if "Jay" as a time remnant was the start of a bad trend.

And Savitar's identity was also a major part of the story. A really weird, unfocused, nonsensical story, capped by a reveal so anticlimatic for a lot of people (I was only half watching near the end or I probably would have realized he was time remnant Barry).

Now with Devoe, we again know who the bad guy is from the very beginning. Like with Wells/Thawne they can sprinkle his origin and motivations over the course of the season instead of waiting halfway or three fourths of the way through the story like with Zoom and Savitar.

[catrice2]

I think this year has been better than the last two, but not much. There seems to be a problem with developing a good nemesis, and with developing Iris as a character slightly apart from Barry. I concur about their lack of physical intimacy when they have no problem showing it on other shows....although the Kara school girl giggling and high school romances are no better. Although I am happy to see Joe get a life, I am curious where they are going with Joe and Cecile and the baby...and a little bit frightened. 

I could care less about Harry/Edward 9.0 and I wish they would lose this gimmick.  The actor served his purpose as a great foil for Barry the first season, but to keep him around just reminds us of how great the first season was and how every other version if him has been a boring and pale comparison.  Barry has Joe, he doesn't need another mentor and father figure, and Cisco (another character that continues to annoy...especially now that they have tried to make him a grown up by giving him a love interest) and Caitlyn  (and Barry???!!) can pretty much handle the great ideas. 

Which brings me to the problem I have with them starting the series out talking about how smart Barry is and Barry just continues to do dumb things, and I don't remember him having the 'great ideas" scientifically to solve some of the problems....but we are to believe that he created the computer which keeps showing the Iris West Allen byline? 

And Wally....oh never mind. 

[KirkB]

11 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

I could care less about Harry/Edward 9.0 and I wish they would lose this gimmick.

They keep doing versions of Wells for the same reason Malcolm Merlyn stayed on Arrow long past the point it made any sense, they love the actor. I get it. Both Barrowman and Cavanagh are a lot of fun to watch. I liked Harry in season 2, HR got on my nerves. Now though, I think a Wells-less Flash would be a delightful change of pace.

19 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Which brings me to the problem I have with them starting the series out talking about how smart Barry is and Barry just continues to do dumb things, and I don't remember him having the 'great ideas" scientifically to solve some of the problems....but we are to believe that he created the computer which keeps showing the Iris West Allen byline?

You can be brilliant and still do stupid things or make bad choices, but overall I agree with your sentiment. Barry, by his very nature, tends to run headlong into thing and acts before he thinks. I think they had to tone down his intelligence in order to keep Cisco and Caitlin relevant in the beginning of the show, so they could come up with solutions and let Barry implement them. As for Gideon, the super computer you refer to, I think the Flash writers would prefer you forget the fact they mentioned Barry designed it, somehow, and pretend it was Thawne.

[LisaM]

I thought the twist was terrific but I really don't like frame up storylines -- and have no interest watching Barry in jail (shades of his dad at the beginning of the series).  I do like the Devoe is a really smart villain who uses his brain rather than his speed. Nice change.

I'll probably have to FF through most of the Barry in Jail/Trial scenes.

I do love Iris as Team Leader as well as this incarnation of Wells. (Could not abide HR.)

[Hook75]

The wedding pic in the first scene was from their non-wedding earth X episode, right? 

[ruby24]

2 hours ago, Hook75 said:

The wedding pic in the first scene was from their non-wedding earth X episode, right? 

Yes. One of the producers said on twitter they had first look photos. Which means they did a whole photo shoot with a photographer in the church before the wedding.

[kris4n6]

So in an episode where we find out Barry can vibrate so fast that he's invisible to the naked eye, he just stands there and lets the cops find him standing over a dead body?

 

Why not zip over to the door, vibrate when the cops break in, and then zip out when they're checking the rest of the loft? He could then come walking up the steps with "I got an alarm alert on my phone."

 

I hope this doesn't drag on too long, I really hate wrongfully accused storylines.

[KirkB]

He'd still be arrested though. The body of a man he has previously stalked and harassed is in his apartment, dead from a knife which he owns and which has his fingerprints on it.

Although I agree with you. I don't want "The Trial of Barry Allen" to be the story of the rest of the season, or even half of it. I want to see Barry out being the Flash, not Prisoner 12006 or whatever.

Edited January 3, 2018 by KirkB

[kris4n6]

6 hours ago, KirkB said:

He'd still be arrested though. The body of a man he has previously stalked and harassed is in his apartment, dead from a knife which he owns and which has his fingerprints on it.

Although I agree with you. I don't want "The Trial of Barry Allen" to be the story of the rest of the season, or even half of it. I want to see Barry out being the Flash, not Prisoner 12006 or whatever.

I agree he would still likely be arrested, but being found in a locked apartment, alone, with a dead body looks way worse than finding a body in an unoccupied home while you have a tentative alibi (though the fast travel from Joe's to the loft would of course complicate that).

[KirkB]

9 minutes ago, kris4n6 said:

I agree he would still likely be arrested, but being found in a locked apartment, alone, with a dead body looks way worse than finding a body in an unoccupied home while you have a tentative alibi (though the fast travel from Joe's to the loft would of course complicate that).

True. Barry is going to look and be treated (by everyone in Central City outside of Team Flash) as guilty no matter what. Especially since he was standing over the body of a guy who had accused him of harassment and said he was fearful for his life. Running away would make it even worse. But Barry could be halfway to Star City before the cops finish breaking in the door if he wanted to be, so yeah, even if he's not going to run and hide just being somewhere else when he is arrested would at least make a tiny bit more difficult for the prosecutors.

[Trini]

The whole scene with DeVoe flying around the city with the chair near the end was so odd; but now I realize that they probably wanted to use it as much as possible since that was the last(?) time we're going to see it.

And even though the show is trying to have a 'lighter' tone this year, Ralph is too cartoonish to fit in with the rest of show.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Trini