Small Talk: The Northwest Coffee Shop

[Meredith Quill]

The Small Talk topic is for:

•   Introductions

•   Off-topic chatter

•   Having virtual tea with forum buddies

This is NOT a topic for actual show discussion. When you want to talk about the show:

1 Figure out the nature of the topic you want to talk about

2 Look for an existing topic that matches or fits

3 If there is NOT an existing topic that fits, CREATE ONE!

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Happy trails beyond Small Talk!

[AuntiePam]

I'm looking forward to this.  Big horror fan, and I was a Simmons fan back in the day.  He's gone off the rails a bit lately (his novel about Custer stinks), but his early stuff is quite good.  I don't think any of his many novels have been filmed.

[Darian]

Completely agree on the Custer book, and early Simmons. And I loved The Terror.  It's one of those books I wish I could go back and read again for the first time. 

[AZChristian]

I just love watching the actors and thinking about what "degrees of separation" they have in other roles.  For example:

1.  Tobias Menzies is about to start playing Prince Philip (married to Queen Elizabeth) in the next two seasons of "The Crown."  Jared Harris played Elizabeth's father in the series.

2.  Ciarin Hinds played Aberforth Dumbledore in the Harry Potter movies.  Jared Harris' father, Richard, played the first Albus Dumbledore (Aberforth's brother).

Anyone else aware of anything?

[jnymph]

On 4/3/2018 at 4:30 PM, AZChristian said:

I just love watching the actors and thinking about what "degrees of separation" they have in other roles.  For example:

1.  Tobias Menzies is about to start playing Prince Philip (married to Queen Elizabeth) in the next two seasons of "The Crown."  Jared Harris played Elizabeth's father in the series.

2.  Ciarin Hinds played Aberforth Dumbledore in the Harry Potter movies.  Jared Harris' father, Richard, played the first Albus Dumbledore (Aberforth's brother).

Anyone else aware of anything?

Good catches :) also, Tobias Menzies & Cirian Hines were on HBOs Rome as Brutus and Cesar respectively.

I just came here to say this show is my current obsession.  I plan on reading the  book now too. 

It saddens me to think they met such horrid fates.  I feel like I owe it to them to understand their story and honor their bravery. 

Now I can’t get that old Kansas song, “Point of Know Return” out of my mind.  It’s so fitting LOL

[Captanne]

I read The Terror by Simmons (the book this show is based on) ages ago.  I'm not a big "horror" genre reader -- but I really enjoyed The Terror.  I have to admit.  I even recommended it to friends.  

This show (once I got the subtitles going) is wonderful.  Without subtitles, it's unwatchable.

Tonight, I finished Ice Blink which was written in 2000.  It's very readable non-fiction.  Fascinating.  (Bear in mind, Erebus was found in 2014 and Terror in 2016.)

On order, I have Frozen in Time by Beattie (discovered remains in 1981-ish) and Geiger (who, by all accounts is a horse's ass.  No offense intended.)  

The Royal Maritime something or other has a neat collection of artifacts online:  Easy to spend an hour or two on this site before you know it.  (I've just selected that page randomly.  Go back to the beginning to see other artifacts.)   http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections.html#!csearch;searchTerm=erebus;start=140

Edited May 6, 2018 by Captanne

[jnymph]

Thanks for the recommendations, Captanne 

I believe I'll start with "The Terror"

I agree that this series is unwatchable without the subtitles.  Even then, I have to stop and Google odd phrases/words.

OK, off to check out the Royal Maritime link. : ) 

[Captanne]

I think you'll enjoy the book -- it's quite long.  I'm not a big fan of Simmons' but I was able to read the whole thing.  (I read for a living so reading and I'm also writing my dissertation so it's like breathing for me.  I do it all the time and it's anything but a burden.  But, Simmons....man, he's kind of mediocre normally.  In my opinion.)

Edited May 7, 2018 by Captanne

[Earlwoode]

On 5/5/2018 at 4:09 PM, jnymph said:

also, Tobias Menzies & Cirian Hines were on HBOs Rome as Brutus and Cesar respectively.

They are also both in Game of Thrones as Edmure Tully and Mance Rayder respectively.

[jnymph]

I don't know how I'm going to handle when/if Mr. Goodsir passes away.  (I'm still holding out hope he will live happily among the Inuit with Lady S)

Regardless of outcome,  I'm going to uncontrollably sob.  I love him that much.    (OK. Off to Google Paul Ready.)

[slothgirl]

3 minutes ago, jnymph said:

I don't know how I'm going to handle when/if Mr. Goodsir passes away.  (I'm still holding out hope he will live happily among the Inuit with Lady S)

Regardless of outcome,  I'm going to uncontrollably sob.  I love him that much.    (OK. Off to Google Paul Ready.)

I think since the bodies of most of the men were never found, they can do pretty much whatever they want with their fates.

[jnymph]

I've never dreaded watching a show so much in my life.  It's just so brutal watch them suffering.  :(
Although, now I'm invested in the story and characters, I need to see how they play this out.   As I've (and others) have mentioned, I hope we get some sort of comfort or happiness?  

I did a rewatch this weekend and appreciated it much more,  caught a lot more too.    

Has anyone watched the "Extras"  On Demand ?   I really enjoyed watching the "Inside episode 1, 2 etc";   along with interviews of the cast and crew.   

[Captanne]

I am tempted to do a re-watch, too.  I might even do a "re-read" because I read the book three or four years ago.

[true north]

7 hours ago, jnymph said:

I've never dreaded watching a show so much in my life.  It's just so brutal watch them suffering.  :(
Although, now I'm invested in the story and characters, I need to see how they play this out.   As I've (and others) have mentioned, I hope we get some sort of comfort or happiness?  

I did a rewatch this weekend and appreciated it much more,  caught a lot more too.    

Has anyone watched the "Extras"  On Demand ?   I really enjoyed watching the "Inside episode 1, 2 etc";   along with interviews of the cast and crew.   

I've recently did a rewatch together with my husband to have him catch up on the show in time for the finale. It's even better the 2nd time, because now I know who everybody is, and the 1st time it took me 5 episodes to figure out that Jopson and Little weren't the same person :)

I'm also incredibly invested in all the characters. Isn't it strange: we've been told explicitly in the very 1st scene of the very 1st episode that everyone dies in the end, and I still care much more than I care about any characters in other, much more high profile shows. Actually, the show made me want to dig deeper, so I've just finished the recent (and only) biography of James Fitzjames, which the showrunners definitely used for the show. It was a real treat, and a much needed improvement of book-Fitzjames, who isn't boring or anything, but he's just sort of there.

[Captanne]

Also, it's called "The Terror" - good things happening is very, very unlikely.

 

ETA:  I've been gobbling up the library about the Franklin Expedition (am reading Beattie's Frozen in Time now.)  Do you have an ISBN for the Fitzjames book, true north?  It starts 978- and is thirteen total digits including the first three.

I saw Branagh's film on Shackleton (Antarctica) years ago because....Branagh.  It was excellent.  I'm reading Endurance as well.  BFF came over the other day, looked at it on my table and said, "Oh, yeah.  Endurance.  Shackleton.  Read that ages ago."  That's why he's BFF.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Captanne

[true north]

9 hours ago, Captanne said:

ETA:  I've been gobbling up the library about the Franklin Expedition (am reading Beattie's Frozen in Time now.)  Do you have an ISBN for the Fitzjames book, true north?  It starts 978- and is thirteen total digits including the first three.

I saw Branagh's film on Shackleton (Antarctica) years ago because....Branagh.  It was excellent.  I'm reading Endurance as well.  BFF came over the other day, looked at it on my table and said, "Oh, yeah.  Endurance.  Shackleton.  Read that ages ago."  That's why he's BFF.

The ISBN for Fitzjames' biography is 978-1-55488-781-1, according to my Kindle. I've now moved on to Crozier's biography and also have a book of Scott's journals waiting for me. After all, nothing takes one's mind off stories about people dying in the Arctic better than stories about people dying in the Antarctic.

[Sighed I]

1 hour ago, true north said:

After all, nothing takes one's mind off stories about people dying in the Arctic better than stories about people dying in the Antarctic.

LOL!!! So true. I am positively obsessed and have read everything I could find online about the expedition. Now I'm compiling a reading list based on people's suggestions here (thanks especially, @Captanne for your many recommendations throughout the show's run. I intend to extend beyond this expedition too; the whole subject is fascinating).

I would love to hear your thoughts on Crozier's biography once you've read it; my finger's been itching on the "Buy Now" button.

[AZChristian]

Just got an e-mail from the library that they're holding Goolrick's book for me!!!

[raven]

23 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Just got an e-mail from the library that they're holding Goolrick's book for me!!!

Isn't this exciting??  I love when that happens!

I am reading Ice Ghosts by Paul Watson.  The first section of the book is about the expedition and the second section will deal with the various recoveries.  I am just beginning the second section.

2 hours ago, true north said:

 I'm reading Endurance as well.

The Shackleton/Endurance story is a terrific one.  I read Caroline Alexander's book ages ago, it was a great read.  It also includes images taken by the expedition's photographer, Frank Hurley. 

[proserpina65]

14 hours ago, raven said:

I am reading Ice Ghosts by Paul Watson.  The first section of the book is about the expedition and the second section will deal with the various recoveries.  I am just beginning the second section.

I just started this one myself, plus I've got Arctic Labyrinth by Glyn Williams on hand.  It's a more general history of the search for the Northwest Passage, not just about the Franklin expedition.  I've found reading about the Arctic/Antarctic helps with the summer heat we've been experiencing lately.

I just found out that the Canadian Museum of History currently has a Franklin expedition exhibition (say that ten times fast).  Dang it, now I want to go back to Ottawa.  That particular museum is really cool.  Apparently it's going to be traveling after September, and is coming to the Mystic Seaport Museum in Mystic, Connecticut.  I might try to get there once I know the dates.

Edited May 16, 2018 by proserpina65

[raven]

8 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Apparently it's going to be traveling after September, and is coming to the Mystic Seaport Museum in Mystic, Connecticut. 

ooh thanks for this.  It opens December 1; I'm definitely going to go.

[Captanne]

You guys -- I think I love all of you almost as much as I do Francis Rawdon Moira Crozier.

[true north]

On 5/15/2018 at 11:55 PM, Sighed I said:

LOL!!! So true. I am positively obsessed and have read everything I could find online about the expedition. Now I'm compiling a reading list based on people's suggestions here (thanks especially, @Captanne for your many recommendations throughout the show's run. I intend to extend beyond this expedition too; the whole subject is fascinating).

I would love to hear your thoughts on Crozier's biography once you've read it; my finger's been itching on the "Buy Now" button.

Crozier's biography is excellent as well, especially the parts about his friendship with Sir James Ross. Although as with Fitzjames' one, it's like looking at a car crash in slow motion. One can't help but feel sad reading about even the happiest moments of their lives, because the shadow of their final expedition is always there. 

Next on my list: Barrow's Boys by Fergus Fleming, about that whole age of polar exploration that ended after Franklin's expedition was lost. 

As far as I know, there are also some expedition relics on display in the Greenwich maritime museum. I wonder if "need more fuel for my current obsession" is a good enough reason to extend my London work trip for another day this summer :)

Edited May 17, 2018 by true north

[Captanne]

There is a display of Erebus and Terror artifacts (Franklin Expedition artifacts, more correctly) coming to Mystic Seaport Museum on December 1, 2018.  The are calling it "Death in the Ice".....I think that's the name travelling with the collection which is coming from Canada.

I'm fascinated that it's Death IN the Ice rather than Death ON the Ice.  Kind of brings the Inuit mythology of the Tuunbaq (or their embodiment of Evil) to mind.  Death wasn't just on the ice and the hostile environment; it's not only an exhibit of Man at the extremes and being unable to survive.  Rather it's also an exhibit about the ice -- death is IN the ice -- it's something organic and is a part of the ice that is there with or without man's presence.   

 

A subtle but important distinction -- made by using an "i" rather than an "o" in a two letter word.  The English language ROCKS.

 

ETA:  Oops, link.  https://www.mysticseaport.org/locations/death-in-the-ice/

Edited May 18, 2018 by Captanne

[Sighed I]

20 hours ago, true north said:

Crozier's biography is excellent as well, especially the parts about his friendship with Sir James Ross. Although as with Fitzjames' one, it's like looking at a car crash in slow motion. One can't help but feel sad reading about even the happiest moments of their lives, because the shadow of their final expedition is always there. 

Next on my list: Barrow's Boys by Fergus Fleming, about that whole age of polar exploration that ended after Franklin's expedition was lost. 

As far as I know, there are also some expedition relics on display in the Greenwich maritime museum. I wonder if "need more fuel for my current obsession" is a good enough reason to extend my London work trip for another day this summer :)

Thanks for the feedback on Crozier's bio, and you have me wanting to check out Fitzjames' as well. As you say, there is something very melancholy about reading their stories, knowing their end. I know it sounds corny, but I want to know more about them anyway, even knowing how sad it all is. They deserve to be remembered. I don't know what it is, but these men and their story have wormed their way into my heart.

Here is my humble addition to the "reading" list:

https://librivox.org/the-worst-journey-in-the-world-by-apsley-cherry-garrard/

For those who aren't familiar, the website is a collection of free audiobooks from the public domain. This is a memoir from Scott's 1910 Antarctic expedition. I've been listening to it at work and in the car, and it's very good. Sometimes some of the language they use and the stuff they describe disturbs me, particularly in regard to their dealings with wildlife and the domesticated animals they bring with them, but overall it's very interesting, even riveting at times. Plus there are references to Crozier, Ross, Terror/Erebus, etc., which is a nice tie-in.

[SoSueMe]

11 hours ago, Captanne said:

There is a display of Erebus and Terror artifacts (Franklin Expedition artifacts, more correctly) coming to Mystic Seaport Museum on December 1, 2018.  The are calling it "Death in the Ice".....I think that's the name travelling with the collection which is coming from Canada.

I'm fascinated that it's Death IN the Ice rather than Death ON the Ice.  Kind of brings the Inuit mythology of the Tuunbaq (or their embodiment of Evil) to mind.  Death wasn't just on the ice and the hostile environment; it's not only an exhibit of Man at the extremes and being unable to survive.  Rather it's also an exhibit about the ice -- death is IN the ice -- it's something organic and is a part of the ice that is there with or without man's presence.   

 

A subtle but important distinction -- made by using an "i" rather than an "o" in a two letter word.  The English language ROCKS.

 

ETA:  Oops, link.  https://www.mysticseaport.org/locations/death-in-the-ice/

Thanks for the heads-up, I'm in CT and I will totally check that out. And, I agree, the English language does rock!

[Captanne]

I will be there!  Just a quick train ride on the Vermonter if we don’t get stuck in Hartford. 

[jnymph]

Is everyone going to watch the finale tonight?  Or put it off as long as possible, like me ?  I'm not mentally prepared to watch it on a mundane Monday.  

Once again, I will need a bottle of wine to soothe me to the bitter end.   Sheesh, this show is turning me to drink more than usual ! 

I've never simultaneously loved and dreaded a show so much in all my years. (and I'm old. LOL ) 

On another note:

GAH!  I made the mistake of looking at the first post in the "We Are Gone" thread.    I only read the first line, but now I'm mildly spoiled.    What the hell was I thinking by peeking in there ?!!?!  
 

[slothgirl]

On 5/18/2018 at 7:49 PM, Captanne said:

I will be there!  Just a quick train ride on the Vermonter if we don’t get stuck in Hartford. 

I'm going to Hartford this weekend for a tango festival. Hello to those in CT.

[Sighed I]

4 hours ago, jnymph said:

Is everyone going to watch the finale tonight?  Or put it off as long as possible, like me ?  I'm not mentally prepared to watch it on a mundane Monday.
 

I don't think I could bear not watching it tonight. LOL

I was really hoping we'd get a longer episode tonight. It looks like it's going to run an extra 15 minutes, but half of that's likely to be commercials. From what I've read about the real-life expedition, there are a number of events or incidents which haven't been shown yet, and I'm wondering how they're going to fit it all in. I realize they can't fit it all in, but there were some interesting findings and I'd love to see the writers' take on it. I wouldn't have minded another episode or two of this part of the story as it's felt a little abbreviated. I'm not feeling the passage of time in the same way I did when they were on the ships, and I'm wondering if it has to do with trying to cram too much into too few episodes.

Unfortunately, I think the issue of getting spoiled before episodes broadcast is going to become more pervasive as networks/streaming providers try to draw subscribers by making entire seasons available on demand. For the most part, viewers of this particular show have been pretty thoughtful about not letting stuff slip (and I'm referring to the Web in general, not just here), but I, too, have been spoiled at various points by offhand comments and it really sucks when you're trying to avoid spoilers. :(

[true north]

Another book for the collection: On the Proper Use of Stars. This one is a fictionalised account of the expedition (mostly from Crozier's POV) and of lives led by Lady Jane and Sophia back in England. I'm enjoying it quite a bit. However, after reading The Terror and then also watching The Terror a few times I sort of expect Tuunbaq to appear in this story as well :)

Still, I really like Crozier's portrayal in the book, and the author clearly did her homework when it comes to historical details. 

[jnymph]

Trying so damn hard to stay free of spoilers as I did not watch the finale last night.  AND IT'S TORTURE.   I will watch tonight for sure, because I can't wait to commiserate with my shipmates here on this forum.   I even had to be careful on Twitter as I ran into that brilliant artists feed (the one doing Terror cast portraits)  and I saw a brief glimpse of a sketch that I believe was inspired from the finale.  ( i scrolled past it quickly as I did not want further spoiling !)    And I AM DYING with speculation in my little head.    It even kept me restless most of the night.    I hope everyone enjoyed !   I'm not going to come back here until I watch after this evening.      I have my booze at the ready. 

 

THE BRIEF GLIMPSE I CAUGHT OF THE SKETCH BLEW MY MIND.   GAAAAAAHHHH ! 

[Sighed I]

4 hours ago, jnymph said:

Trying so damn hard to stay free of spoilers as I did not watch the finale last night.  AND IT'S TORTURE.   I will watch tonight for sure, because I can't wait to commiserate with my shipmates here on this forum.   I even had to be careful on Twitter as I ran into that brilliant artists feed (the one doing Terror cast portraits)  and I saw a brief glimpse of a sketch that I believe was inspired from the finale.  ( i scrolled past it quickly as I did not want further spoiling !)    And I AM DYING with speculation in my little head.    It even kept me restless most of the night.    I hope everyone enjoyed !   I'm not going to come back here until I watch after this evening.      I have my booze at the ready. 

 

THE BRIEF GLIMPSE I CAUGHT OF THE SKETCH BLEW MY MIND.   GAAAAAAHHHH ! 

Might want to grab some tissues, too. ;)

[Portia]

4 hours ago, jnymph said:

Trying so damn hard to stay free of spoilers as I did not watch the finale last night.  AND IT'S TORTURE.   I will watch tonight for sure, because I can't wait to commiserate with my shipmates here on this forum.   I even had to be careful on Twitter as I ran into that brilliant artists feed (the one doing Terror cast portraits)  and I saw a brief glimpse of a sketch that I believe was inspired from the finale.  ( i scrolled past it quickly as I did not want further spoiling !)    And I AM DYING with speculation in my little head.    It even kept me restless most of the night.    I hope everyone enjoyed !   I'm not going to come back here until I watch after this evening.      I have my booze at the ready. 

 

THE BRIEF GLIMPSE I CAUGHT OF THE SKETCH BLEW MY MIND.   GAAAAAAHHHH ! 

I've seen the portraits, but where would I find the sketch you mention?

[Captanne]

Am watching “The Expanse”.  Jared Harris is in it and I saw a brilliant clip. There are several seasons and I have no idea when he turns up. Good episode 1 so far. Johnathan Banks is in it so I can’t complain. 

[Misstify]

On 6/3/2018 at 2:59 PM, Captanne said:

Am watching “The Expanse”.  Jared Harris is in it and I saw a brilliant clip. There are several seasons and I have no idea when he turns up. Good episode 1 so far. Johnathan Banks is in it so I can’t complain. 

I came here hoping some Terror fan would have an idea for the next show I can watch...I feel like I've seen every show on all those "best shows on Netflix" etc. sites.  So thanks for this; I'll check it out.

[Captanne]

I finished The Expanse and enjoyed it immensely.  They got picked up for another season. Not nearly enough Jared Harris -- his performance is quite amazing to me.  (I'm not surprised the original clip I saw drew me to the show.)  His character continues to be referred to but Harris is absent -- maybe because he was working on Terror.

 

In other news, I have become quite the expert on the Franklin Expedition.  I have read everything out there -- including the biographies of Crozier and Fitzjames, and the 1939 book by Cyriax.  Am currently reading Woodman's interpretation of the Inuit testimony.  I.  have.  read.  everything.  else.  (Even watched a two hour very dry lecture on the discovery of Erebus on youtube.)

[Captanne]

Ask me to draw a map of KWI, the surrounding islands (NEWS), Adelaide Peninsula, and the Franklin path from Beachey Island, to 77N, to where they abandoned the ships in 1848, to the march around KWI (which is mostly speculative) all the way down to Montreal Island -- this I can do.