S13.E07: Dust and Bones

[Guest]

Quote

 

The BAU searches for an unsub in Austin, Texas who is targeting prominent members of the community.

 

[ReidFan]

well, this one's about ...ugh....slithery things.....but I'll force myself to watch anyway to see more of (below)

[Fashionista7]

3 hours ago, ReidFan said:

well, this one's about ...ugh....slithery things.....but I'll force myself to watch anyway to see more of (below)

OH MYLANTA!

[ReidFan]

the 9 pm check-in:

Reid-o-Meter:  6   he's actually in quite a lot of this episode. I was surprised, given there's no sign of him in the teaser (except for the shot of him that was taken from the season premiere). but I think we're either not gonna see him next episode, or there'll be some indication about his 100/30 because he tells the others on the jet on the way home that his "first lecture is tomorrow"

The good:  (see above image)

LOL! @ his exchange with the actual doctor in the hospital.

like .....the whole Luke subplot. Likeable guy, nice bit of backstory for Luke, nice friendship development with Garcia.

and 

LOU!  although Lou is probably just in tonight's ep. :(

 

dislike.... that we see the unsub right off the top again (well, sorta...you'll know what I mean) Gender/fixations given away immediately

all the snakeage is really gross for someone like me.. ugh. so much snakeage. My stuffed bear really earned her keep today, haven't needed her like this since Mr Scratch.

really dislike..... all the torture porn. ugh.

I will give them some credit for originality/creativity (and probably some heavy - duty observation by the Animal Welfare overseers). Different MO, different kind of unsub  and trigger/endgame. But way too much ick and torture for my liking.

 

Edited to add:  Reid shot that finger point at his appointed investigative partner (JJ this time, but she's off camera) I was amused....

and record time for my download and screencapping :)

Edited November 16, 2017 by ReidFan

[Danielg342]

Well...

It gets points because it actually depicts the violence against the women...it doesn't hold back or shy away from it like other shows on network TV do.

Also, though I don't have the stats, this is the first time in years a female UnSub has been killed, with that killshot done by a man, no less.

So much for this episode being politically correct.

Furthermore, Doris Morgado absolutely killed it as the UnSub tonight. That was real emotion and I felt it, so A+ to you.

Also, props to the costuming and makeup department in making Desi Gutierrez the right kind of "weird": part cool rocker, part deranged punk psychopath. The look just worked for me.

I also appreciated the fact the UnSub was a tattoo artist and that the crimes were somewhat related to tattooing and body modification was an appropriate nod to "Austin is weird" that Austin- truly- has going for it. Too many times CM (and other shows) ignore what makes a city unique, so to see the nod to "Keep Austin Weird" was nice.

Oh, and Reid had quite a bit of work tonight. Vintage performance too, describing everything and needing Rossi to get him to "translate to English".

Lastly, Luke Alvez was really good in his bookend scenes with his friend, Phil. Loved seeing the dog, especially seeing him bond with Phil. So touching.

I had thought that since Alvez brought up The Crimson King that we'd seen Phil before (which I would have appreciated) but we haven't.

That's about it for the positives.

This felt like a redux of "About Face" with all the masks and the setting in Texas.

Other than Reid and, at times, JJ, the team really didn't do much except spout exposition, and the case was pretty straightforward.

Sure, they tried the "it's actually a woman" twist, but I had that figured out as soon as they penciled in Lara Gutierrez as having ties to the criminal. In fact, any detective might have thought, "Lara's connected to every building the UnSub left her bodies- maybe she's connected somehow?"

More to the point- this really felt like a "local" case, in that the police really should have had an easy time capturing the UnSub. I mean, Desi kept her victims alive, didn't exactly do much to conceal her kidnappings and, by the looks of it, didn't do much to conceal herself with her victims.

Furthermore, the deviantness of herself and her crimes make her stick out like a sore thumb. Yeah, Austin's weird...but Desi is just too weird not to be noticed.

I also have to throw some shade at the whole story idea of the UnSub using victims to "practice" for their intended victim. Not that I would doubt that serial killers wouldn't have an endgame, but it borders on ridiculous how many times CM goes to that well.

You'd think after awhile that killers might catch on to the fact the BAU catches them by figuring out their endgame...so they'd do a better job mixing up their victims.

Perhaps by having their "endgame" being the second victim, just to throw off the BAU.

Or the BAU stopping the killer before they can get to their "endgame". 'Cause the murders they're committing in the interim are people too, you know.

Or, you know, the BAU, for once, not succeeding in stopping the endgame? A case where a serial killer goes dormant after "finishing" their crimes would actually be fun.

Also, wouldn't it be scarier to have a killer who doesn't have an endgame? One who's just so fixated with killing that they just keep doing it?

I suppose having an endgame gives a story a certain logic, but it kind of doesn't make sense after a while. Why would these sadists decide after killing so many people that after they've killed this one person, they're "done"?

You can't turn off impulses, you know.

Overall...it was just a bore. Reid's scenes are watchable as are Desi's, and Luke's scenes with his friend are wonderful.

Other than that...a rote case.

[Hotchgirl18]

I like how we sort of had a different unsub. Lots of Reid. Sort of reminded me of "Save Haven." Could've done without the snakes. Although, if we have a bird unsub, that'll do it for me. I did like that there was some profiling. 

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

I also have to throw some shade at the whole story idea of the UnSub using victims to "practice" for their intended victim. Not that I would doubt that serial killers wouldn't have an endgame, but it borders on ridiculous how many times CM goes to that well.

I thought about that, too. I feel like it might've worked better if the order of victims had been reversed this episode. Desi could start off by injuring (or even killing) her mom and sister, and then, because she has such dark impulses, would continue on with attacking other "perfect" victims. In real life, a lot of criminals tend to go after people they know first and then branch out from there, and those who do it the other way round, like you said, they tend to try and cover their tracks much better. 

Quote

 

You'd think after awhile that killers might catch on to the fact the BAU catches them by figuring out their endgame...so they'd do a better job mixing up their victims.

Perhaps by having their "endgame" being the second victim, just to throw off the BAU.

Or the BAU stopping the killer before they can get to their "endgame". 'Cause the murders they're committing in the interim are people too, you know.

Or, you know, the BAU, for once, not succeeding in stopping the endgame? A case where a serial killer goes dormant after "finishing" their crimes would actually be fun.

Also, wouldn't it be scarier to have a killer who doesn't have an endgame? One who's just so fixated with killing that they just keep doing it?

 

I also agree with all of this. Especially that last line. It definitely could've been creepier if she had no personal motivation for her crimes, no bad family history, and just wanted to mess people up simply for the hell of it. 

Yeah. Very odd case in general. Creative and different (though I do see the "About Face" comparisons), but odd. Could've certainly done without the tongue scene, 'cause, ick. I actually winced and looked away during that part. 

On a lighter note, okay, so Reid rattling off all that stuff at the hospital...seriously, I wonder how MGG learns to do those "Reid ramble" type speeches and whatnot without tripping up on his words. I felt my tongue twisting just listening to him there :p. Liked him sharing all the info about snakes, too, and everyone's reactions to it :p. 

And I too really liked the whole thing with Luke and his friend. I like the way they've been slowly revealing bits and pieces of Luke's backstory throughout his time on the show, especially in regards to his time overseas. The puppy was freaking adorable, too. I was "awwwww"-ing out loud during that part :D. Hehe. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Annber03

[Hotchgirl18]

I wonder about those snakes. How Doris was able to handle them . 

[rhys]

Can that woman's tongue be repaired?

[Willowy]

I don't agree there was torture porn here. There was definitely torture, but it wasn't shown, they cut away from the worst of it. Torture porn is relentless, meticulously graphic in every detail, showing every little bloody bit. This was "scalpel, forceps, tongue, about to cut into it then cut away". 

I liked it more than I thought I would. It was shot really gauzy, with a lot of dense colors. They made ATX look pretty seedy... but it suited. I liked the UnSub's story, and I liked that there was WAYYYY more Reid than in the original script. 

Did NOT like that Matt took the kill shot. That was not necessary. She had a scalpel, not a gun. He could've shot her in the arm or leg and incapacitated her just as easily.

Really liked the music. I wonder if they paid more attention to it because ATX is the "Live Music Capitol of the World".

[CrimeFan12]

I'll stick to my short and sweet reviewing techniques since I don't do an in-depth analysis, picking it apart piece by piece.  I liked it as I have liked all the episodes this season so far.  That might be because I stopped worrying about ratings and possible cancellation like I've done in years prior.  What will happens, happens so I've been sitting back and enjoying the heck out of the season.  It was one of their creepier ones, but it was still good, and kept my attention.  I have no problem with snakes.  If a professional handler said I could touch the snake, I would.  

I knew way early that Luke was going to get his friend a dog because Kirsten posted that picture of her with the dog sort of gave it away...lol.  The pup was adorable.  Am looking forward to next week.

[Hotchgirl18]

That dog made the episode. I just love dogs. So cute!! I wonder if they had to get a professional handler for the snakes or something. 

[Sharpie66]

Ironic the timing of this epidemic, given that the program getting young trainee therapy dogs and veterans paired up was just pulled from Walter Reed Hospital and another site within the past week.

[normasm]

Fairly good episode overall, mainly due to the fact that they are writing Alvez as a full-fledged character, and they are remembering and writing Reid (and to some extent, Garcia) true to the original. 

I thought that Alvez was going to be the substitute Morgan when he first came on the show, all the toughness, the swagger, and the stupid back-and-forth with Garcia, but tonight, we saw him as the support person for his old partner, concerned and compassionate, and showing up for him. Good continuity of storyline, writers. The bookend scenes were very nice, especially the puppy at the end; although, I must say, it would not be a good idea to choose a puppy for a person working through rehabilitation, but whatever. Having Garcia act like an adult was nice, and gave Luke's friend another contact and support person. Also, carrying Luke's dilemma with his friend into the main story, when he hears the strong first victim say it helped knowing someone needed her to be strong, giving him the idea of how to help his friend, all very nice and well-acted.

The main story, about someone kidnapping, disfiguring and dumping 2 women, didn't sound BAU-necessary, but whatever. It gave the writers a chance to "Reid" out, to have him quickly figure out exactly what was happening and point them in the right direction. It wasn't as torture-porny as I expected, so, yeah. Also, if that was supposed to be a brown snake... anyway, that scene where the snake strikes at the sister's neck, scared me, and I like snakes. I did not like all those different snakes in that large terrarium, that was dumb and possibly stressful for the snakes in there that were real. And the sister saying as a child she was banished to the basement, and the basement was filled with snakes, I cry BOGUSness! Basements are cold, and snakes are cold-blooded. If a bunch of snakes were in the basement, they were in torpor and unable to even flick their forked tongues. But I digress.

The rest, with them being "Lewis-less" tonight, and Simmons doing the heavy lifting with the Morgan-ness, (and am I right in pointing out this is the first time they've killed an unsub who wasn't a killer?) served to point out they don't need all those clowns in the clown car. They even had the beautiful Reid pushing pins into some lovely map in a couple of scenes, to what end I'm not sure. But Reid was lovely and smart, and apparently will be the missing clown next week or two ("my first lecture"). Perhaps they have filmed a few scenes to intersperse into the next few episodes, so that Reid will be there, but not there? One can hope.

[JMO]

Amen to everything Norm said.  I liked this episode well enough.  It moved the Reid-meter about 3/4 of the way.  Points off for the jumbled medical test ordering dialogue and the repeated use of the nonsense term "first dermal layer of skin".  Sorry to be saying goodbye for a few episodes.  Like Norm, I hope they've filmed a glimpse or two of him in action.  Maybe a phone call to have him answer a question only Reid could answer?

As odd as the unsub and her methods were, the investigation felt more organic than usual (a good thing), with less magic from Garcia, no huge leaps in logic, clear indication that the LEOs were still working the case (if still missing from the takedown), and no extensive last minute exposition.

They've continued what they started last season with Alvez, which is the slow introduction of background for his character.  It reminds me of the little bits they used to drop about Reid, and even Hotch, that made us want to know more.   So now, I'd like to know what happened to Luke in Iraq, and how it affected him when he came home.  I'd like that to be the focus of a Reid-less episode, please.

Liked AJ's shiver when the snakes spilled from the terrarium, and Matt's visible regret at having had to shoot the unsub.  

But my absolute favorite moment of the episode came when the tattoo shop owner tried to run on the three FBI agents, and too-senior agent Rossi just turned to the young 'uns with him, with a look that said 'Go get 'im.'  Happy 70th birthday, Joe!

[normasm]

22 minutes ago, JMO said:

I hope they've filmed a glimpse or two of [Reid} in action.  Maybe a phone call to have him answer a question only Reid could answer?

They've continued what they started last season with Alvez, which is the slow introduction of background for his character.  It reminds me of the little bits they used to drop about Reid, and even Hotch, that made us want to know more.   So now, I'd like to know what happened to Luke in Iraq, and how it affected him when he came home.  I'd like that to be the focus of a Reid-less episode, please.

Liked AJ's shiver when the snakes spilled from the terrarium, and Matt's visible regret at having had to shoot the unsub.  

But my absolute favorite moment of the episode came when the tattoo shop owner tried to run on the three FBI agents, and too-senior agent Rossi just turned to the young 'uns with him, with a look that said 'Go get 'im.'  Happy 70th birthday, Joe!

JMO, I forgot about the priceless look on JJ's face! And I kind of want Alvez's Iraq story to involve Reid, as Luke seems very tuned in to Reid, especially when he is being mistreated. I'd like Reid to return the favor of Alvez's help when he was in prison. Would make for good bonding!

Edited November 16, 2017 by normasm

[JMO]

17 minutes ago, normasm said:

JMO, I forgot about the priceless look on JJ's face! And I kind of want Alvez's Iraq story to involve Reid, as Luke seems very tuned in to Reid, especially when he is being mistreated. I'd like Reid to return the favor of Alvez's help when he was in prison. Would make for good bonding!

Okay, I can buy that.  They can have focus on Alvez during a non-Reidless episode, provided Reid plays a big role in that focus!  

[idiotwaltz]

Quote

But my absolute favorite moment of the episode came when the tattoo shop owner tried to run on the three FBI agents, and too-senior agent Rossi just turned to the young 'uns with him, with a look that said 'Go get 'im.'

Mine too! I liked Simmons’ exasperated eyeroll right before he went after the tattoo parlour guy. 

I liked the episode, it was an improvement over last week’s. The snakes didn’t bother me but I had to look away during the scenes with the tongue-splitting and whatever you call what the UNSUB was doing to her forearm. I wouldn’t call it torture-porn but it was unsettling, which I supposed is kind of the point, so. 

I liked that Reid broke the case by noticing the real estate agent signs in the crime scenes, but I do not believe for a minute that any doctor would take orders from a random person just like that, even if that person is an FBI agent. Especially if the FBI are technically only assisting local law enforcement with the investigation. 

I also liked Garcia’s octopus mug! 

[normasm]

Another thing I noticed after watching the ep again, is that I liked the direction, especially of the scene where the first victim is going through her cognitive interview and describing what happened to her as it is shown happening to the latest victim. This was nicely intercut and very effective. 

[Old Dog]

A much better episode - I didn't check the clock once to see how long there was to go! Decent amount of grown up. professional Reid which I always appreciate. I'm not and never will be an Alvez fan but I can see why people like the character and for once the cheese level of the bookends was acceptable. Someone give me a nudge when Reid returns - isn't MGG away for at least 3 episodes? I guess that means we won't see him until the New Year so A Merry Christmas or Seasonal Winter Solstice Greetings to all!

[Hotchgirl18]

Everyone acted in character. Reid figured something critical out and Garcia actually acted like an adult. 

[ReidFan]

57 minutes ago, Old Dog said:

. Someone give me a nudge when Reid returns - isn't MGG away for at least 3 episodes? I guess that means we won't see him until the New Year so A Merry Christmas or Seasonal Winter Solstice Greetings to all!

he's completely out of 9 and 10 by my math. No sign of him in the preview for next week's so he may be out of that too, but (as per below)

will nudge! ..... if he does appear at all, of course it'll be screencapped to the 9s so I'll point you there :).

I'm hoping, since they 'listened' to us and actually seconded an agent (Lewis, to Flynn's court appearance) this time around like we suggested, that maybe they'll also listen to our suggestion that 'Reid at the podium for his lecture' or 'Reid at the computer writing his lecture' or 'Reid in the library researching' may be a reality, if only as a bit of a montage while the team is discussing their case or something and one says 'I'll text Spence[r] and ask him <whatever is eluding them>"......

4 hours ago, JMO said:

= Points off for the jumbled medical test ordering dialogue and the repeated use of the nonsense term "first dermal layer of skin". 

LOL... yeah, I can see that, you being a medical person. It was okay with me because it flew right over my head of course ("Reid and the bafflegab"). But I suppose this kind of error rankles with you the same way police procedure muckups do with me :)

[JMO]

I think we suggested having Reid make some phone calls, but no one knew to suggest a scene of him teaching until we saw the premiere, three days before MGG left for his fall sabbatical.  So, if such should happen, it was already planned.  

Honestly, I don't think there's much opportunity for them to respond to fan feedback within the time constraints of the same season.  Not none, but not much.  Which doesn't mean they shouldn't try, within the constraints of time, talent and contracts.

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, idiotwaltz said:

Mine too! I liked Simmons’ exasperated eyeroll right before he went after the tattoo parlour guy. 

My mom laughed at that bit :p. I too love the moments when these guys are like, "Are you kidding me with this, really?" in regards to a suspect.

4 hours ago, normasm said:

Another thing I noticed after watching the ep again, is that I liked the direction, especially of the scene where the first victim is going through her cognitive interview and describing what happened to her as it is shown happening to the latest victim. This was nicely intercut and very effective. 

Yes! I really liked how they handled that scene, too. 

And I also liked how they brought back Garcia's interest in tattoos-if I recall rightly, it was in "A Thousand Words" where one of the team members had been asking her to help look up information on tattoo parlors and such, and she'd hinted that she had some personal experience with the body art/tattoo world there. So that was a good bit of continuity. 

[Fashionista7]

4 hours ago, idiotwaltz said:

But my absolute favorite moment of the episode came when the tattoo shop owner tried to run on the three FBI agents, and too-senior agent Rossi just turned to the young 'uns with him, with a look that said 'Go get 'im.'

Agree!

4 hours ago, idiotwaltz said:

 I liked Simmons’ exasperated eyeroll right before he went after the tattoo parlour guy.

It reminded me of Morgan's 'You gotta be kidding me, this guy' about the unsub from Hostage.

[secnarf]

18 hours ago, Willowy said:

Did NOT like that Matt took the kill shot. That was not necessary. She had a scalpel, not a gun. He could've shot her in the arm or leg and incapacitated her just as easily.

I could be wrong here - and someone please correct me if I am - but isn't it usually standard policy to shoot at the largest mass (ie the torso)? Because arms and legs are smaller targets, and ones that tend to be more mobile than a torso. If you're waiting until your life is in danger to shoot, you don't want to miss.

9 hours ago, JMO said:

 It moved the Reid-meter about 3/4 of the way.  Points off for the jumbled medical test ordering dialogue and the repeated use of the nonsense term "first dermal layer of skin". 

This irritated me so much. Nobody actually speaks like that. Right off the bat, that would have made it clear he is *not* a medical doctor. Reid used to be one of my favourite characters. But this long and slow devolution into him knowing more about literally everything than everybody else is not doing him any favours, and neither is the clumsy way in which it is executed.

[Mariana]

Much better than last week.

Mmm... Like it was already said: it just felt better, nice work team, not so much magic computer. The girl who played Desi was great i actually felt bad for her.

I like Luke and it's nice to know more about him. I'm a cat person but that puppy was gorgeous.

[normasm]

I also liked the giving of the profile being more organic, less of a stage play where each profiler intones their interchangeable lines. Felt more real. Good job, Director.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Lots of Reid, big plus.  Props for the UnSub being a familial-ly mistreated female, that doesn't happen too often.

However, the snakes and tongue cutting?  NO!  HELL no!!  Congrats Show, you found two of my Top Squicks.  The way each half of the forked tongue curled around her finger when licking off the blood?!   I'm a 40-year old man who can handle gore with the best of them, but that moment had my skin absolutely effing crawling.

Edited November 17, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Annber03]

People's reactions to the snakes in this episode remind me of my reaction to "The Itch" from a few seasons back. To this day I still have no idea exactly how the takedown of the unsub played out in that episode, because I always turn away from the screen the moment the unsub starts mentioning the spiders. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Forgot to mention.... good thing the snake that bit sister had some extremely weak and/or slow traveling venom, seeing as she was bit right on [or very damn nearly] the jugular by it.

And Simmons, c'mon man, only "Chocolate Thunder" (aka Morgan) and "Rookie" (aka Alvez) get to ask Garcia about her tattoos.  You've been around for almost ~two/three months now, get with the program.

Edited November 17, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Sharpie66]

Re: the use of “dermal layer of skin,” years ago, my mom got Stevens Johnson Syndrome (see S7’s “The Good Earth” ep for the show’s use of SJS, which startled the hell out of me when I first saw it, since it is a little-mentioned condition). By the time she recovered, she had lost most of the layers of her skin, and I could have sworn they said that she had lost the skin down to the dermal layer, but maybe I misunderstood. Either way, that terminology didn’t ping me as being too far off on the show this week. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Sharpie66

[Fashionista7]

4 hours ago, Sharpie66 said:

Re: the use of “dermal layer of skin,” years ago, my mom got Stevens Johnson Syndrome (see S7’s “The Good Earth” ep for the show’s use of SJS, which startled the hell out of me when I first saw it, since it is a little-mentioned condition). By the time she recovered, she had lost most of the layers of her skin, and I could have sworn they said that she had lost the skin down to the dermal layer, but maybe I misunderstood. Either way, that terminology didn’t ping me as being too far off on the show this week. 

Actually, The Good Earth is S8.

[Sharpie66]

Oops! Sorry, and thanks for the correction. I knew it was early on in my weening myself off of the show (which lasted until Reid’s prison arc last year).

[Danielg342]

On 15/11/2017 at 11:08 PM, Annber03 said:

I also agree with all of this. Especially that last line. It definitely could've been creepier if she had no personal motivation for her crimes, no bad family history, and just wanted to mess people up simply for the hell of it.

Back when I used to do fanfics for this show, I wrote a case in Calgary where the premise was a copycat going on a rampage without an endgame in sight.

I had a lot of fun writing it because, in the course of writing the story, I realized that the entire city would be on edge because they now have to deal with the knowledge of a crazed killer still on the loose and how the city would start losing its patience each day that passed without the BAU catching the killer.

It was interesting having the BAU not just have to work to find the killer but also find a way to keep their composure amidst a city that was losing its mind and threatening the case.

It's this kind of "greater conflict" that the show has not once ever seemed to acknowledge (except maybe in "Brothers in Arms", but that didn't involve a whole city), and I think with this UnSub here in "Dust and Bones", the seeds were there to throw Austin into a panic.

Imagine- news reports, daily, of some deranged psychopath who kidnaps women and disfigures them, forcing them to live the rest of their lives with scars on their face (I imagine in real life the disfigurement would much more gruesome, but it's network TV).

The BAU comes in, the people feel reassured...until the days pass and the BAU, tight-lipped as they should, has no answers on the progress of the case except for those boilerplate news releases they'd issue every day.

I'm absolutely certain Austin would go ballistic, and the Mayor might even get so drastic as to put the entire city on lockdown, telling everyone to stay home.

You could almost hear the BAU remind the Mayor that doing that means the UnSub would flee, making them harder to catch...but would the Mayor care about that?

I think it would have made a riveting case...but, instead, Desi had to go after her mother and her sister, making her easy pickings for the BAU because they knew she would do that.

I mean, I understand why the show does the storyline of "the last victim has a personal connection to the killer"- it does add a "personal" element to the final victim that the BAU needs to save, in that because of their connection to the killer we know them a bit better than "Jane Random" that got killed in the episode's second act.

Not that it doesn't work, but doing too much borders on ridiculous...and it's tantamount to admitting that Jane Random's life isn't worth the same as Tina Gutierrez, and that's the wrong message the show should send.

[Hotchgirl18]

15 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Back when I used to do fanfics for this show, I wrote a case in Calgary where the premise was a copycat going on a rampage without an endgame in sight.

I had a lot of fun writing it because, in the course of writing the story, I realized that the entire city would be on edge because they now have to deal with the knowledge of a crazed killer still on the loose and how the city would start losing its patience each day that passed without the BAU catching the killer.

It was interesting having the BAU not just have to work to find the killer but also find a way to keep their composure amidst a city that was losing its mind and threatening the case.

It's this kind of "greater conflict" that the show has not once ever seemed to acknowledge (except maybe in "Brothers in Arms", but that didn't involve a whole city), and I think with this UnSub here in "Dust and Bones", the seeds were there to throw Austin into a panic.

Imagine- news reports, daily, of some deranged psychopath who kidnaps women and disfigures them, forcing them to live the rest of their lives with scars on their face (I imagine in real life the disfigurement would much more gruesome, but it's network TV).

The BAU comes in, the people feel reassured...until the days pass and the BAU, tight-lipped as they should, has no answers on the progress of the case except for those boilerplate news releases they'd issue every day.

I'm absolutely certain Austin would go ballistic, and the Mayor might even get so drastic as to put the entire city on lockdown, telling everyone to stay home.

You could almost hear the BAU remind the Mayor that doing that means the UnSub would flee, making them harder to catch...but would the Mayor care about that?

I think it would have made a riveting case...but, instead, Desi had to go after her mother and her sister, making her easy pickings for the BAU because they knew she would do that.

I mean, I understand why the show does the storyline of "the last victim has a personal connection to the killer"- it does add a "personal" element to the final victim that the BAU needs to save, in that because of their connection to the killer we know them a bit better than "Jane Random" that got killed in the episode's second act.

Not that it doesn't work, but doing too much borders on ridiculous...and it's tantamount to admitting that Jane Random's life isn't worth the same as Tina Gutierrez, and that's the wrong message the show should send.

It would be better if Desi was just disfiguring the women for the funsies. No rhyme or reason a la public enemy. That would REALLY throw the city into a panic. 

I'm surprised they haven't done something a la "phantom of the opera" yet. 

[normasm]

The show is about making sense as best we can of criminals. (Her) crimes do make sense, and yes, they have explored the same family dynamic/reasoning before. Because it happens fairly often. Killers who just kill for jollies are usually mentally aberrant, not particularly intelligent, and/or, possibly mentally damaged. They do not last very long, and aren't terribly hard to profile, even for someone like me. 

David Berkowitz is the closest I can come to this dumbass person who seemingly has no real reason to kill except to create chaos. All the other serial and thrill and mass killers I can think of had a twisted something in their heads that they felt gave them a purpose, a reason to kill. So while it might be creepy to have a killer who is just killing for the funsies, those people devolve extremely quickly, and aren't hard to find, as a rule. That is, if we're sort of sticking to reality, and not trying to make this show a teen horror flick of the 80s.

[Hotchgirl18]

3 hours ago, normasm said:

The show is about making sense as best we can of criminals. (Her) crimes do make sense, and yes, they have explored the same family dynamic/reasoning before. Because it happens fairly often. Killers who just kill for jollies are usually mentally aberrant, not particularly intelligent, and/or, possibly mentally damaged. They do not last very long, and aren't terribly hard to profile, even for someone like me. 

David Berkowitz is the closest I can come to this dumbass person who seemingly has no real reason to kill except to create chaos. All the other serial and thrill and mass killers I can think of had a twisted something in their heads that they felt gave them a purpose, a reason to kill. So while it might be creepy to have a killer who is just killing for the funsies, those people devolve extremely quickly, and aren't hard to find, as a rule. That is, if we're sort of sticking to reality, and not trying to make this show a teen horror flick of the 80s.

David Berkowitz claimed to hear "voices" and said a demon posessed dog was telling him to kill. 

[Danielg342]

10 hours ago, normasm said:

The show is about making sense as best we can of criminals. (Her) crimes do make sense, and yes, they have explored the same family dynamic/reasoning before. Because it happens fairly often. Killers who just kill for jollies are usually mentally aberrant, not particularly intelligent, and/or, possibly mentally damaged. They do not last very long, and aren't terribly hard to profile, even for someone like me. 

David Berkowitz is the closest I can come to this dumbass person who seemingly has no real reason to kill except to create chaos. All the other serial and thrill and mass killers I can think of had a twisted something in their heads that they felt gave them a purpose, a reason to kill. So while it might be creepy to have a killer who is just killing for the funsies, those people devolve extremely quickly, and aren't hard to find, as a rule. That is, if we're sort of sticking to reality, and not trying to make this show a teen horror flick of the 80s.

I do agree that a killer who simply "kills for fun" isn't interesting, at least if it were the "main" kind of killer. Every now and then would be OK, just to mix things up every now and then.

My original point, though, was that I find just as ridiculous a serial killer with an "endgame", at least one that involves them "practicing" on people they don't know and ending on someone they do know. You're more likely to have someone who starts with someone they know before branching off to people they don't (like Richard Allen Davis) or have their victims all be surrogates of someone they do know (like Ted Bundy).

I don't, intrinsically, disagree that almost all serial killers should have a reason for their killing- after all, that allows for a profile to be made- but I do think this reason should make the killers be able to kill indefinitely, at least until the BAU stops them.

That would be a lot more scary- a killer who never stops and won't stop until the BAU stops them. It also adds urgency since it would make communities impatient when the BAU would stress the need for patience, because a profile takes time. That would be something I'd love the writers to do.

[Annber03]

On 11/20/2017 at 0:34 AM, Danielg342 said:

Back when I used to do fanfics for this show, I wrote a case in Calgary where the premise was a copycat going on a rampage without an endgame in sight.

I had a lot of fun writing it because, in the course of writing the story, I realized that the entire city would be on edge because they now have to deal with the knowledge of a crazed killer still on the loose and how the city would start losing its patience each day that passed without the BAU catching the killer.

It was interesting having the BAU not just have to work to find the killer but also find a way to keep their composure amidst a city that was losing its mind and threatening the case.

It's this kind of "greater conflict" that the show has not once ever seemed to acknowledge (except maybe in "Brothers in Arms", but that didn't involve a whole city), and I think with this UnSub here in "Dust and Bones", the seeds were there to throw Austin into a panic.

Imagine- news reports, daily, of some deranged psychopath who kidnaps women and disfigures them, forcing them to live the rest of their lives with scars on their face (I imagine in real life the disfigurement would much more gruesome, but it's network TV).

The BAU comes in, the people feel reassured...until the days pass and the BAU, tight-lipped as they should, has no answers on the progress of the case except for those boilerplate news releases they'd issue every day.

I'm absolutely certain Austin would go ballistic, and the Mayor might even get so drastic as to put the entire city on lockdown, telling everyone to stay home.

You could almost hear the BAU remind the Mayor that doing that means the UnSub would flee, making them harder to catch...but would the Mayor care about that?

I'll have to check out that story sometime. That sounds pretty neat.

I like your general analysis as well. There's been a couple other instances where they've have touched on the town panic over their struggle to work a case (you mentioned "Brothers in Arms" as a good example of the impact on the local officers, and I'd say "Doubt" did a particularly good job of dealing with the fear among the college students, and their frustration over the team's struggle to solve the case), but yeah, it does feel like that's an aspect that should pop up more often in a lot of their cases. Like with that drone and the mass shootings a few weeks back. Given the prevalence of that issue in the news, one would think they would've touched more on the town's panic in relation to that, or showing how businesses were doing lockdown drills or other things of that sort, and the whole, "How can this happen here?!" mentality that you so often see with these kinds of stories. 

And indeed, we have seen a couple cases where the killer did get away, and yet there's no mention of how the people in that town feel about that. Would they react badly to the BAU returning out their way again the next time there's a case? Would they complain to the Bureau, causing some sort of headache for the team even after they go home? Wage a campaign against the effectiveness of the Bureau as a whole? I definitely think that sort of thing would be very interesting to see in an episode.

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I think it would have made a riveting case...but, instead, Desi had to go after her mother and her sister, making her easy pickings for the BAU because they knew she would do that.

I mean, I understand why the show does the storyline of "the last victim has a personal connection to the killer"- it does add a "personal" element to the final victim that the BAU needs to save, in that because of their connection to the killer we know them a bit better than "Jane Random" that got killed in the episode's second act.

Not that it doesn't work, but doing too much borders on ridiculous...and it's tantamount to admitting that Jane Random's life isn't worth the same as Tina Gutierrez, and that's the wrong message the show should send.

 

Also agreed on all of this. I don't need the victim to be connected to the killer to care about them. There's been plenty of victims that weren't tied to the killers on this show that I rooted for and cared about. 

And there's also the fact that some criminals will simply never have a clear cut motive, if they have one at all. They attack and kill just because, well, they can. Some people are just rotten to the core. I get that those kinds of killers would much harder to understand or sympathize with in a show that takes great pains to try and do just that with the unsubs. But those types of unsubs do exist all the same. 

On a different note, as per usual, here be my review for this episode:

https://www.spoilertv.com/2017/11/criminal-minds-dust-and-bones-review.html

[LillyB]

I hope that Brick;s new puppy gets some service dog training.

[Hiiiiiii]

Hi so I was hoping someone could tell me anything important to the whole story line. I have a fear of snakes and hope to skip this episode because someone told me there were a lot. I don't want to miss anything important!

Thanks!