A Thread for All Seasons: OUaT Across All Realms

[KingOfHearts]

Even though the story form has been a little repetitive, I'm digging the Underworld. It's more entertaining to me than 5A since the plot has had more focus and the subject matter of incorporating all these important characters is so fun. It's not like they're throwing in Elsa or Merida and moving them along their own storyline. Nearly all the guest characters in 5B have directly interacted with the mains on an emotional level. That validates the need to have such a large variety because they're not as wasted. (Like August in 4B.) The Underworld gels well with the Once formula.

Edited April 2, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I agree, and I too am also enjoying 5B a bit more.  Despite the clunky retcons and the typically disturbing moral message if you think *too* much about the individual episodes, this half-season feels slightly more character-driven than the surface plot stuff they have been doing for several seasons now.  Regina got to resolve some issues with her father, Rumple got to have a real talk with Milah, and Hook got to have conversations with his brother about the past.  Snow got the guest star Hercules, but oh well, at least she got screentime (you really can't win them all).  The theme of unfinished business is reminiscent of the smaller weekly victories they had in Season 1, which I personally find more satisfying.  I'm not saying there aren't huge issues, but I'm mostly enjoying it though I wish they would do a few more of these types of episodes before they bring back the scenery chewing Zelena.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

The theme of unfinished business is reminiscent of the smaller weekly victories they had in Season 1, which I personally find more satisfying.

I'm happy the heroes are actually being allowed to have small victories. They've brought souls to Olympus, defeated Cerberus, and rescued Hook. Now they're planning to use Henry's Author abilities to get the dirt on Hades. We've gotten brief flickers of hope amidst an ocean of darkness. It's also nice to see the heroes (including Regina) actively choosing to help others. They're not simply reacting to a threat to save their own skins. While Operation Firebird was originally a detour, it's now their primary means to escape. I can buy what the Hope Commission is selling after I see the Nevengers dauntlessly progressing. 

 

By comparison, whatever the heroes did in 5A would backfire in their faces. (Such as Snowing tricking Arthur only to get sanded or Emma saving Hook only for him to turn into the Dark One.) While the heroes aren't exactly smart in 5B, they're at least winning enough to where they don't look like total idiots 100% of the time.

[KAOS Agent]

I think it helps that Team Storybrooke has a goal and are working towards achieving that goal rather than simply reacting to things and running around like idiots. I like that they actually get to win even while we see that the stakes are high and they do take losses. However, I'm leery that they're going to head off on a tangent with Zelena rather than continue with the story we've gotten thus far. I feel like the rescue of Hook, combined with the fact that we've dealt with each of the main characters' most emotionally relevant dead family/friends/lovers, signaled an end to this particular type of storytelling and we're going to get the same endless running around in circles stories we've complained about with other arcs. 

Edited April 2, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[Camera One]

By comparison, whatever the heroes did in 5A would backfire in their faces. (Such as Snowing tricking Arthur only to get sanded or Emma saving Hook only for him to turn into the Dark One.) While the heroes aren't exactly smart in 5B, they're at least winning enough to where they don't look like total idiots 100% of the time.

 

In many of the arcs, by the end of the fourth episode, the "heroes" had already been made idiots several times over and/or had made no progress or was still in the dark.  In 2B, by "Tiny", the "heroes" were at the whim of the all-powerful Cora.  In 3A, the heroes had made zero progress and Henry was falling under Peter Pan's spell by "Nasty Habits".  In 3B, we already had several episodes of Giant Green Broach Midwife Zelena fooling Snow by "Quiet Minds".  In 4A, "The Apprentice" saw Rumple get Hook under his control while the Snow Queen had already iced Marian with no repercussions.

 

Although Hades does have everyone trapped in the Underworld, at least the main characters haven't done anything blatantly stupid and they have scored some clear wins against the villain.

[Shanna Marie]

I think it helps that Team Storybrooke has a goal and are working towards achieving that goal rather than simply reacting to things and running around like idiots.

That makes a huge difference. Most of the arcs, the heroes' goal is negative and reactive -- stop the villain's evil scheme. They do all that running around and reacting rather than moving toward something while the villain steers the action. In this arc, they have a positive, active goal. They went into the Underworld to save Hook and bring him home, and they've added the side goal of freeing souls from Hades. They're not trying to stop Hades because they want to stop his evil scheme. It's still about getting home. Meanwhile, Hades is the one in reactive mode as he's trying to stop them. He threatens Hook, blackmails Rumple, carves the names on the stones, and blackmails Liam, all in reaction to what Team Storybrooke is doing. You get the feeling that if Team Storybrooke hadn't shown up, it would have been business as usual for him, so he was forced to react to them. It's rather refreshing to have the villain being the one running around reacting to the heroes and trying to foil their plan.

[Camera One]

ou get the feeling that if Team Storybrooke hadn't shown up, it would have been business as usual for him, so he was forced to react to them. It's rather refreshing to have the villain being the one running around reacting to the heroes and trying to foil their plan.

 

And Hades' reactions have been mostly fails.  He failed at getting Regina to go home.  He put their names on the tombstones but they couldn't care less.  He got the pages of the book, but Henry can write Hades's story.  He keeps losing souls.

 

The only "win" Hades got was against Rumple, and by this point, he's such a villain that it's hard to think of him as being on the same team as the others.

 

Just that little change has made a huge difference.  At least so far.  

[Shanna Marie]

And Hades' reactions have been mostly fails.

True! It really is an inversion of their usual pattern. Usually, it's the good guys who keep failing. Like in 3B with Zelena -- she duped them to get Charming's sword, got Rumple under her power, put the kiss curse on Hook, forced Emma into a situation to make the kiss curse work, and even got the baby and succeeded in casting the time travel spell. The closest thing they got to a win before stopping her from actually traveling in time was breaking the memory spell and saving Henry from her.

 

At least with Pan they did manage to rescue Neal and save David, and they took some small positive steps along the way, like finding the Shadow trap, learning from Neal how to get away, convincing the Lost Boys to help them find Pan, so they weren't totally ineffectual. But back to 4A, they escaped from Ingrid and kept her from doing even worse things than she might have, but they didn't really win against her until the end. In 4B, Hook turned Ursula and Emma saved Henry from Cruella (though the show doesn't treat that as a victory), but otherwise just about everything they did ended up playing into Rumple's hands. Most of what they did, either on behalf of Operation Dumbass or trying to find out what Rumple was up to, just ended up helping him bring his plan to fruition.

 

But now they have a goal and have taken some steps toward that goal, in that they've found and freed Hook, helped Henry Sr., Herc, Meg, Liam, and the sailors, found the book and the pen, and have the next step of their plan in place. The one big downer was Milah's fate and Rumple's betrayal, but that was also the episode in which they saved Hook, so the tone balances. Meanwhile, just about everything Hades does backfires on him and ends up helping the good guys. If Hades had stayed away from Liam, Liam might have managed to convince Hook to stay with him. It was primarily the betrayal of the stolen book pages that made Hook believe Emma. I would suspect that Hades will end up pushing Rumple too far, and that may be what foils his own plan.

[KingOfHearts]

I would suspect that Hades will end up pushing Rumple too far, and that may be what foils his own plan.

 

Taking advantage of Rumple has never worked out well... except somehow with Anna. Still makes no sense to me that she was able to steal the dagger, command him what to do, and leave unscathed. 

 

3B doesn't get talked about much (aside from the finale) due to the fact there's not much to it. The Missing Year angst disappears after the second episode, Zelena's villainy is pretty standard, and all the characters pretty much stay in one mode for the whole arc. Outlaw Queen is easier to stomach here because there's no Adultery Queen and they just met, so minimal interaction is okay. I personally find most of it to be boring because of how little development there is aside from that couple. Not even Neal's death is that interesting.

 

3B isn't 4B or 2B terrible, but's not good either. It doesn't assassinate characters, which is a plus on this show. There were many complaints when it aired about the focus on Zelena, Regina's light magic, and the lack of Missing Year development. 3B's biggest sin is missing out on some huge potential and I've gone over that several times before. It is, simply put, a lukewarm arc.

[Shanna Marie]

3B's biggest sin is missing out on some huge potential and I've gone over that several times before. It is, simply put, a lukewarm arc.

Yeah, most of its problems, aside from the sudden burst of white magic from Regina, were about what it didn't do rather than what it did. What it did was mostly bland and inoffensive and kind of dull. The crime was in all the stuff that was skipped over and rushed past. It also suffered from a big lead-up. The end of 3A was so intense and showed such potential to be a real game-changer that I was eagerly anticipating 3B, and it ended up being just more of the same, not living up to the promise of the end of 3A. The status quo at the end of 3A was utterly changed, with Emma and Henry in New York having their normal lives and Storybrooke entirely gone -- until Hook shows up at the door. During the break, we were left wondering what happened, how he got there, how it would affect Emma. We were picturing Hook having fish-out-of-water adventures in New York and having to win Emma's trust in spite of her not remembering him. There was the question about what danger the rest of the gang was in and where they were.

 

But the only thing we saw of Hook clashing with modern culture was his distaste for bologna. Emma got her memories back and they were back in Storybrooke by the end of the episode. Storybrooke was Storybrooke. They weren't really in any great peril. In fact, they might have been better off if Emma had delayed her return and only showed up right before the spell was cast. Hook getting to New York was mostly dismissed with a line of dialogue and the brief flashback of Neal sending the note. So there was a big gap between "ooh, this is gonna be good" and "so, that's it?"

[Camera One]

Yeah, most of its problems, aside from the sudden burst of white magic from Regina, were about what it didn't do rather than what it did. What it did was mostly bland and inoffensive and kind of dull. The crime was in all the stuff that was skipped over and rushed past. It also suffered from a big lead-up.

 

I agree with that assessment.  I just found it incredibly boring.  Zelena's longwinded monologues, especially regarding Regina, were grating and repetitive, and the rewatch value in particular of the Rumple/Zelena scenes were incredibly tedious.  The good guys were strung along the entire half season, and of course, the other thing they decided to completely ignore was Snow and Charming missing Emma, and readjusting to their original roles in the Enchanted Forest after so much time away.  They still got a bit of shade with "Bleeding Through" and Snow being the one to cast the Dark Curse, but of course nowhere near the extent of "Snow has a dark spot" à la 2B, or Snowing kidnapped a baby and lied to Emma à la 4B.  Meanwhile, Oz mythology wasn't explored at all (though, what else is new).

Edited April 2, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

Zelena's longwinded monologues, especially regarding Regina, were grating and repetitive

There are two monologues from Zelena I'd like to keep - the two times she "first" meets Regina. The first one being at Knifington Palace and second being in the diner where she parallels Regina's wedding crash in the pilot. In those two moments, I thought the over-the-top scenery chewing was called for. Everything else with Rumple, etc. was boring. When I first watched the shaving scene, I thought it was creepy because Zelena was so mysterious. Looking back, it's tremendously pointless.

 

 

They still got a bit of shade with "Bleeding Through" and Snow being the one to cast the Dark Curse, but of course nowhere near the extent of "Snow has a dark spot" à la 2B, or Snowing kidnapped a baby and lied to Emma à la 4B.

Oh yes. I forgot about "I thought we were the good guys". Ironically, 3x18 was a perfect opportunity to give some closure to the Snow/Regina feud. If Regina had learned about her mother's antics, her reaction should have been an apology. Instead we got, "It's complicated." We sat through boring Cora/Leopold/Eva flashbacks for nothing. It's one of the worst episodes because it spends so much time on a story no one cares about. See: "Selfless, Brave and True"

 

 

Meanwhile, Oz mythology wasn't explored at all (though, what else is new).

I'm hoping that gets fixed this weekend with the Zelena centric.

 

This is my summary of events from the different arcs that had any lasting impact up to today. I'm sure I missed some and we'll all have different opinions of degrees of importance:

2A: Regina and Rumple start redemption arcs. Hook is introduced.

2B: Rumple finds his son. Neal is introduced. Snow kills Cora.

3A: Captain Swan becomes canon. Regina's pixie dust run-in is shown. Robin is introduced. Snow abandons any attempts to be a mother to Emma.

3B: Zelena is introduced. Outlaw Queen is introduced. Neal dies. Captain Swan becomes an official couple. Rumpbelle gets married. Snow and Charming have a second baby.

4A: Emma and Regina become BFFs. Rumpbelle's marriage goes on the rocks. Outlaw Queen development. The Author concept and the Sorcerer are introduced. Emma accepts her magic.

4B: Henry becomes the Author. Regina decides to take control of her happiness. Emma becomes the Dark One. Cruella is introduced. Zelena returns, pregnant with Robin's baby.

5A: Hook dies, gets resurrected as the Dark One, and dies again. Zelena gives birth. 

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

In light of the latest episode, what do we have so far in 5A?

 

It looks like "Our Decay" was focused on answering Emma's "pointless question" from the 5A premiere about why the Underbrooke looks like Storybrooke.

 

So if Zelena hadn't been pulled into the Underworld, what would Hades' plan have been?  If he was telling the truth, he would now have Zelena's baby safe.  Then what's next?  He would appear in the Overworld and tell Zelena her baby is safe? 

 

If so, what was the reason for his actions in the last few episodes? 
- Why was Hades so intent of making Regina leave in the first episode?  Was he doing that for Zelena too?

- Why wasn't Cora being punished all this time, for Zelena's sake?  Why was she allowed to be Mayor?

- Why was he torturing Hook?  Why doesn't he care about Hook being free anymore?

 

If Hades still wants to enact the Time Travel spell, has he already gathered the other ingredients?  As mentioned above, why would Zelena care her baby is being used for the spell, when it doesn't even affect the baby?  I seriously doubt they're going to take on time travel again.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

If Hades still wants to enact the Time Travel spell, has he already gathered the other ingredients?  As mentioned above, why would Zelena care her baby is being used for the spell, when it doesn't even affect the baby?  I seriously doubt they're going to take on time travel again.

 

Him wanting to enact it vs him doing it are two vastly different things. And talk about your thing that would completely change the course of History and would likely make the world cave in onto itself or something.

 

I don't think they're going to do the time travel because Hades will be stopped dead in his tracks, but my friend and I were having a quick chat, and she brought up something that Hades said in 5x13 to Hercules. It was snarky is hell, but when Hercules told Hades to let everyone go, his reply was, "here's that legendary courage everyone talks about."

 

Considering 5x13 was an episode that was a lot about courage, I'm thinking that if Hades is collecting totems, he's already got his courage one. 

[Camera One]

With most villains' scheme on this show, they usually come very close to it or actually accomplishes it in the arc climax.  Not sure if Hades' is going to be an exception or what.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

He's given up on Time Travel, according to him. He just wants to be with his Twu Wuv Zelena. Thus all the grand romantic gestures like turning the Underworld into Underb, and kidnapping Zelena's child on her behalf. But if she continues to reject him, who knows what he might do.

[YaddaYadda]

He's given up on Time Travel, according to him. He just wants to be with his Twu Wuv Zelena. Thus all the grand romantic gestures like turning the Underworld into Underb, and kidnapping Zelena's child on her behalf. But if she continues to reject him, who knows what he might do.

 

Do you really believe that? Hades strikes me more as a "I want my cake and eat it too" type of person. He's after Belle's baby for a reason. Plus the way he touched her belly in the promo was creepy as hell.

 

While I sort of enjoyed the flashbacks, the whole it's true love parts of it made me really roll my eyes. 

 

I agree with Zelena, it's been an hour. Just go take care of your fluttering heart elsewhere.

[KingOfHearts]

I'll hand it to 5B - there's character development across the board. Even though there's a lot of magical Underworld shenanigans, there's much more character focus than in S4 or 5A. Each week we're getting some sort of payoff or increase in depth for someone. I've seen positive changes that I never expected. It's as if the writers were reading these boards. I'm glad we're getting that instead of irrelevant character showcasing or time wasted on Underworld exposition that gives more questions than answers. 

 

5B > 5A

Edited April 5, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[daxx]

Agree, I'm mostly enjoying this arc so far. I keep seeing (on tumblr) people irritated by the red filter and wanting out of the underworld pronto but they whined about Neverland too and that was my favorite arc!

As long as we keep getting people talking to each other and not too much action I'm good.

I do wish captain swan could get a quiet discussion here somewhere that's not just exposition.

[HoodlumSheep]

I'll hand it to 5B - there's character development across the board. Even though there's a lot of magical Underworld shenanigans, there's much more character focus than in S4 or 5A. Each week we're getting some sort of payoff or increase in depth for someone. I've seen positive changes that I never expected. It's as if the writers were reading these boards. I'm glad we're getting that instead of irrelevant character showcasing or time wasted on Underworld exposition that gives more questions than answers.

5B > 5A

I agree, Regina's far more tolerable this season (too bad season 4 had to happen (and even 5a)--that's the season that forever slaughtered Regina's character for me (I never loved her, but she was tolerable for the most part up until season 4). But she's gaining a few points back this season.

Snow's kind of improving. We're finally getting some issues resolved, gaps in the story are being somewhat filled (Henry Sr. being shrunk, when Milah met Killian, etc.).

??? I feel like the writers are semi-listening to all the complaints we've had the past few seasons.

This season has been decent so far. It's definitely an improvement over 4 and 5a.

We'll see though. The middle-of-the-arc slump is upon us.

Edited April 5, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[YaddaYadda]

5b has been surprisingly good. I thought 5A was a good evolution of Emma's character which is still ongoing, but in 5B, I see the characters really changing, and I'm glad that the flashbacks haven't swallowed some of the episodes whole like they usually do. I sort of believe that the writers are trying to go back to a more season 1 formula.

[KingOfHearts]

5B benefits from the writers choosing to use it for payoff. For once, A&E interests and ours aligned. "Wouldn't it be cool if the characters met dead people from their pasts and had to work out their issues?" actually falls under character development. They stumbled onto it more than anything. We're all just lucky, as much as I wish it wasn't a fluke.

 

 

I agree, Regina's far more tolerable this season (too bad season 4 had to happen (and even 5a)--that's the season that forever slaughtered Regina's character for me (I never loved her, but she was tolerable for the most part up until season 4). But she's gaining a few points back this season.

 

Regina is actually contributing as a member of Team Hero. She's not reluctantly working with them; she's doing it by choice. As a Regina fan, I'm happy.

 

 

Agree, I'm mostly enjoying this arc so far. I keep seeing (on tumblr) people irritated by the red filter and wanting out of the underworld pronto but they whined about Neverland too and that was my favorite arc!

The red filter doesn't bother me. It helps differentiate it from Storybrooke so there's less confusion. It's not always in your face either, which helps.

 

 

I thought 5A was a good evolution of Emma's character which is still ongoing

Emma and Hook were the only two characters in 5A to receive any development. Everyone else got sidelined and replaced with guest stars. With 5B, I'm confident Emma will get her turn like everyone else before the arc is over. 

We know she gets the jacket flashback in 5x20.

It's nice that everything seems to be more well-rounded, which is better for an ensemble show.

Edited April 5, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

5A almost needs to be split in half between the Camelot and Storybrooke timelines. I actually thought the Camelot stuff was very engaging and I wish we could have just had a majority of the season happen in Camelot using a linear timeline like we are with the Underworld. So at the moment, my rating goes:

 

5A Camelot > 5B > 5A Storybrooke              > Merida stuff

Edited April 5, 2016 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

5A would have been a pretty strong arc if there weren't so many loose ends. They created so many plots, and didn't bother tying anything together. That drove me crazy.

 

I wish they hadn't used the flashback method in that either. I think it would have been better, and maybe they would have been able to answer all those questions.

[KAOS Agent]

I keep seeing (on tumblr) people irritated by the red filter and wanting out of the underworld pronto but they whined about Neverland too and that was my favorite arc!

 

I despise the red filter and it has lessened my enjoyment of the arc. It makes me sad when I see the episode stills that don't contain the filter because everything looks so much better to me. I don't want them out of the Underworld, but I want the filter gone. What I wish they had done was tied the filter to the souls leaving the Underworld. The filter in the premiere could have been as red as it was and then as people left, the filter would get lighter and lighter. It could be used as a signal that those people leaving are having an effect on Hades' control. A visual cue to the audience that the heroes are messing with Hades more than just costing him a few people. Some of those who've left were there for centuries, so there's got to be a huge number of souls there. A couple leaving shouldn't bother Hades a bit, but if we see signs that those losses are causing other changes, there's more reason for Hades to be worried. And as a bonus, I would be much happier watching the show.

Edited April 5, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm not bothered by the red filter at all. I find it better than the ridiculously dark filter they were using in Neverland.

I agree that 5a would have been a lot stronger had there not been so many dropped plot threads. We need Merlin to pop up in the Underworld so he can tie up some crazy plot threads (or would that be deemed too OOC for him???) and better connect the arcs.

If I ever rewatch season 5, I think it might be a good one to marathon. I feel like 5a and 5b are staying connected a whole lot more than season 4 and season 3.

I didn't think 3b connected with 3a until near the end more with the "home" theme they were trying for. I don't really think 4a and 4b connected besides the dumb author/sorcerer plot, if you can count that.

5a and 5b are fairing much better in my opinion. The CS arc is connecting well, you have some good parallels (can I call them that?Antiparallels?) between Emma's family not being there for her in 5a compared to 5b, Regina's being a much better friend compared to how they were spamming the whole "friendship/I understand you" crap we got in 5a, rumple the "hero" in 5a and now he's laying all his cards out on the table for Belle, etc.

5a and 5b are big antiparallels imo, unless I'm not using that term correctly.

Edited April 6, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[RadioGirl27]

Both 4A and 5A started reasonably well and went downhill pretty fast, so I'm going to wait before choosing. But I have to say that I'm not really fond of the premise of 5B.

Edited April 6, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[Camera One]

I'm glad most of you enjoyed the last episode, but for me, that downhill began with "Our Decay".  I hope it picks up next week, since I always have Hope.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm glad most of you enjoyed the last episode, but for me, that downhill began with "Our Decay".  I hope it picks up next week, since I always have Hope.

Traditionally, the fifth episode kills the momentum and the sixth (usually a Belle centric) obliterates whatever's left.

 

4A: Breaking Glass, Family Business

4B: Best Laid Plans, Heart of Gold

5A: Dreamcatcher, Bear and the Bow

[Camera One]

I never noticed that pattern with Belle.  Oh brother... and I don't mean Liam.

[KAOS Agent]

Camera One when did you become a hope peddler? Sadly, I think the Zelena/Hades connection is going to be the lead arc for this mid-season section and as I could not care less about Zelena, my interest and hope for 5B is pretty much shot. 

[Camera One]

Call me Mary Margaret.

[Rumsy4]

I'm not expecting too much from the rest of the season, from the way things are shaping up. I'm not saying it looks to be terrible, but the mid-arc plot setups seem a bit yawn-inducing. Zelena's romance with Hades and Rumbelle angst are not my chipped cup of tea. Low expectations, and hopefully I won't be disappointed. Afterall, it can't be worse than 4B, right? Right??

[OnceUponAJen]

4B was pretty bad in my books. Our Decay didn't do much for me. The pacing of romances on the show (with the exception of CS) makes it hard for me to be invested. Too much, too quickly. I'm curious about events leading up to S6, but I'd like the characters to get a little break. Somehow I don't see that happening. ...onscreen anyway.

[YaddaYadda]

Our Decay wasn't a bad episode. I thought the present time was so much better than the flashbacks. I didn't care one iota about the insta-true love Hades felt. I've had a few guys who made my heart flutter, because crushes, they happen ALL the time. Tom Hiddleston makes my heart flutter every time he basically opens his mouth, but I'm not in love with him.

 

This show is ridiculous when it comes to these things. True love, true love's kiss....

 

I'm looking forward to the Belle centric because it actually looks like it might actually be about her for a change as opposed to being about Merida, or Anna, or some other princess.

 

 

 

4B was pretty bad in my books.

 

It takes a special kind of talent to come up with a horrible arc like that one. It still makes very little sense to me a year later. That arc may as well not have happened. We would all have been better off. I came close to quitting, and I'm pretty much a go down with this ship kind of person if I haven't dropped something after 2 seasons.

Edited April 6, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Rumsy4]

I've come close to quitting with every B arc since Season 2. I never learn.

[Camera One]

If someone missed the last 10 min of "Operation Mongoose" and missed the entire 5A, starting back on the show with "Souls of the Departed", would they even be able to tell that Emma had become The Dark One?  I suppose it is the B arc after all, but aside from worrying about Hook, what have they given her to do?  Her centric should have been next instead of sliding Zelena and Belle in post-haste, and spending time on them.  

 

It's like they didn't have enough to work with, and needed a new conflict/twist/convolution in the name of Hades-is-in-love-with-Zelena.  Doesn't he still want to neutralize them?  And how does this new revelation even relate to the main characters?  It still doesn't clarify anything in the bigger picture.  

 

So to me, "Our Decay" does cause a loss in momentum.  Having Snow declare that they're going to defeat Hades RIGHT now was just idiotic as usual.  Writing a hero doesn't just mean having them throw out pronouncements.  *Someone* should have made a little progress on how to escape, or how to defeat Hades or SOMETHING this episode.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Camera One

[Curio]

If someone missed the last 10 min of "Operation Mongoose" and missed the entire 5A, starting back on the show with "Souls of the Departed", would they even be able to tell that Emma had become The Dark One? I suppose it is the B arc after all, but aside from worrying about Hook, what have they given her to do? Her centric should have been next instead of sliding Zelena and Belle in post-haste, and spending time on them.

 

The Dark One arc gave Emma the courage to be a bit more selfish with her desires instead of feeling like she needs to bend over backwards for her family and friends and helping them with their issues all the time. So just the fact that we have an arc all about Emma doing something for herself, proclaiming her love for Hook, and going to the Underworld the save him even though there isn't a single logical exit plan in sight might have never happened unless she was the Dark One. But you're right, Emma's epiphany after seeing Hook die in the alternate universe just as easily could have been the catalyst to make Emma say "enough is enough" and do something for herself for a change, instead of having to go through all that Dark One business.

 

I guess you could say Emma being the Dark One has affected her magical abilities and made her magic stronger in 5B. She was easily able to use her magic in the Underworld while Regina and Zelena have both been shown struggling to use their magic. I wish the show would focus more on that plot point and explain why Emma's magic is so powerful in the Underworld.

[Rumsy4]

So to me, "Our Decay" does cause a loss in momentum. Having Snow declare that they're going to defeat Hades RIGHT now was just idiotic as usual.

Oh god. That was idiotic! It's like they were taking naps all this time, and Snow suddenly decided to rouse everyone to action. Snow is still peddling hope speeches the same as her Mary Margaret self. Why couldn't they ask Henry to bring the Apprentice over to the Loft so they could ask him for ideas. He might have some useful suggestion. Or look in Regina's Vault, Underbrooke edition. It may hold some magical artifact that works in Underbrooke. It's maddening! lol

[Mathius]

Traditionally, the fifth episode kills the momentum and the sixth (usually a Belle centric) obliterates whatever's left.

 

4A: Breaking Glass, Family Business

4B: Best Laid Plans, Heart of Gold

5A: Dreamcatcher, Bear and the Bow

 

Yes.  Season 1 and Season 2 didn't use the half-season structure (well, not intentionally in Season 2's case), but once Season 3 started we had this issue with middles.  3A did it the most successfully, since it's momentum halted in the fourth episode (Nasty Habits) rather than the fifth, then began an upward climb from there (from Nasty Habits to Ariel to Dark Hollow to the final four, more and more important stuff was happening).  3B, however, started the trend of the fifth episode killing momentum (It's Not Easy Being Green, aka the disappointing reveal of Zelena's backstory and motivations) and then obliterating the leftovers with the next episode (The Jolly Roger, which was mostly filler....and if momentum remained after that, it sure didn't once Bleeding Through was over with.)  Seasons 4 and 5 have continued this trend.

 

While I think that Our Decay was better than most momentum-killing fifth episodes, it still definitely qualifies since it was so drastically different from the previous four episodes.  No dead character of the day who moves on to Heaven (or gets thrown into the River of Lost Souls...), no active plot for the heroes who instead just react to Zelena, Belle and Baby Hood arriving, and a flashback to Oz of all places that somewhat neuters Hades' effectiveness as a villain (though if anything, next episode at least seems to get him back on top of things). Her Handsome Hero and Ruby Slippers will be even worse. The momentum isn't going to return until Sisters, where a slew of important things happen and characters return.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

 

While I think that Our Decay was better than most momentum-killing fifth episodes, it still definitely qualifies since it was so drastically different from the previous four episodes.

Compare it to Heart of Gold or Bear and the Bow - it tangents a lot like they do. It takes a break from the main action by focusing on side characters like Merida or Zelena. But it's not exactly a filler or one-off either, since it does somewhat play into what's going on. (Albeit in very minor ways.)

 

 

Afterall, it can't be worse than 4B, right? Right??

4B had a severe case of identity crisis from the get-go. The Queens of Darkness, Eggnappers, Operation Mongoose, Lily, Bizarro World, Isaac, Zelena's return and Emma's darkness were all dealt with in 12 episodes. With few exceptions, whenever one got the focus, the others totally dropped out. The overall crises begged two questions - "Will Emma go dark?" and "Will Regina get her happy ending?" The answers were both quite obvious the whole way through. Predictability isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when the how is also just as predictable, there's little point in watching.

Edited April 6, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

 

Having Snow declare that they're going to defeat Hades RIGHT now was just idiotic as usual.

 

I saw that less as Snow suddenly being proactive and more as Ginny looking around and going, "Guys, I gotta go promote Zootopia in a few weeks, so we've got to get us out of this place so that we can explain Snow's disappearance for a couple of episodes." I should not be having that reaction while watching.

[Camera One]

Someone in the Writers Room said, "Oh!  We need a subplot that reminds the characters and the viewers that they want to defeat Hades!"   Sometimes, I wonder if they think we're stupid.  I did like it overall, but the final messaging / "call to arms" was rather trite and unnecessary.

 

That line also seemed designed to be inserted into promos.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Camera One

[Camera One]

Ouat Hades is a bit of a joke really

 

Tell that to King Arthur.

 

It's still not clear why he cares about people moving on from the Underworld, and what it has to do with wooing Zelena. Will Underbrooke disappear if more and more souls move on? Is that why he is afraid? Is Underbrooke an act of defiance against Zeus somehow? I would definitely like more answers, which I'm not sure will be forthcoming.

 

Your questions are pointless.  Sorry, I can't help it.  :)

[HoodlumSheep]

^ I love Arthur! You take that back! *shakes fist angrily*

Nah, I get it. I never got into the Arthurian stuff and don't know too much about it besides some of the characters, so this version of Arthur doesn't bug me. All hail King Shady!

Ouat Hades is...okay. I think what bugs me the most about him is Greg G.'s choice of speech pattern witht he random whispery words and such.

Edited April 8, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Rumsy4]

Your questions are pointless. Sorry, I can't help it. :)

This is my go-to line for the Show now. lol

[KingOfHearts]

 

No one seems to care about her.

YQAP. Goes with TS,TW. ;)

[Camera One]

We're six episodes into 5B and we have six episodes more.  I think we are right in the treading water part of the season.  We know the goal (escape), and right now, no one has any idea how to escape.  We have no idea what Hades wants, besides more dead flowers.  They rescued Hook 3 episodes ago.  So far, we've had Hades spending an entire episode getting his story in the book destroyed, then we spend another episode finding out his story, and then an episode later Zelena has now told Regina the story, and we're left wondering who cares.  

 

On a brighter note, the sixth episode of 5A was "The Bear and the Bow".

[Mathius]

We should be out of the treading water part in the eighth episode, I believe, so just one more week of stalling to go.

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm already slowly making my list for the seasonal rankings (best/worst episode, pros/cons of the season, etc). Basically I reevaluate everything on a weekly basis and adjust accordingly.

Right now the 100th, Hook's centric (never thought I'd see the day that this would happen) and the Belle centric are at the bottom (due to being flat out boring, being too rushed, and because I don't care for Belle/ruining her character further/boringness, respectively).

While I'm finding this season a vast improvement in some aspects, this season also seems a bit mediocre like 3b was, currently. I can't really name any stand-out or memorable scenes.

Hopefully this season can end on a high note like 3b did.