S04.E01: A Dark Knight: Pax Penguina

[Miss Dee]

Kidnapping isn't, though. I doubt there's any governing body making sure that criminal follows the Geneva Convention or some equivalent.

Although that would be a great perversion of the police to show on screen. "We can't prevent you from being a licensed kidnapee, but we'll look in on you to make sure you're getting fed and there's no raping going on! Better hope they come up with the ransom though, or you're shit out of luck on that beheading threat."

Edited September 24, 2017 by Miss Dee
Clarified my thoughts

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The opening scene was the Gotham I love - incompetent criminals being ousted by much more organized criminals, a wedding band playing Rick Astley, and everyone taking an opportunity to insult the groom's ring choice before robbing him at his own wedding.

Jim basically picking a fight with his three larger coworkers was classic Ryan Atwood.

No Lee = great episode! It's not that I dislike Morena Baccarin as an actress but Lee as a character has been useless for at least one (if not two) full season. And as noted by several people already, Jim is a much better character when he isn't moping about his love life.

I love that Bruce is still working on his vigilante game and making mistakes, which seems more realistic. I also appreciate that Alfred is trying to keep him focused on his original mission.

Edited September 24, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[jhlipton]

I got to thinking [ruh-roh]:  The thugs who accosted Selina Kyle hardly seemed interested in fiduciary matters, and could not have had a license to abuse her sexually in any way whatsoever.  It would have been funny if, after she started wailing (whaling?) on them, an "enforcement squad" had showed up to exact a penalty for unlicensed behavior.  After all, that's the kind of crime-stopping Penguin was boasting about.

[Danielg342]

15 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

It would have been funny if, after she started wailing (whaling?) on them, an "enforcement squad" had showed up to exact a penalty for unlicensed behavior.

Tabitha could have even been part of it, working for Penguin to make up her debt for killing his mother.

9 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

Kidnapping isn't, though. I doubt there's any governing body making sure that criminal follows the Geneva Convention or some equivalent.

Although that would be a great perversion of the police to show on screen. "We can't prevent you from being a licensed kidnapee, but we'll look in on you to make sure you're getting fed and there's no raping going on! Better hope they come up with the ransom though, or you're shit out of luck on that beheading threat."

Interestingly, torture isn't on the license either, and Penguin himself has engaged in it multiple times. I wonder if the show will make note of that at some point.

[jhlipton]

6 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Tabitha could have even been part of it, working for Penguin to make up her debt for killing his mother.

Interestingly, torture isn't on the license either, and Penguin himself has engaged in it multiple times. I wonder if the show will make note of that at some point.

That would have been cool if Tabs had mentioned that. But I think she and Penguin were still on the outs at that point.

Penguin doesn't need a license -- he is The Custodian!

[Danielg342]

7 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

That would have been cool if Tabs had mentioned that. But I think she and Penguin were still on the outs at that point.

True- but then Zsasz could have shown up in the alley and made the offer instead of going to Tabs/Selina's house.

8 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

Penguin doesn't need a license -- he is The Custodian!

Ha. It wouldn't be the first Roman concept he's mangled. During the episode Penguin stated that Augustus "proclaimed" the "Pax Romana", when the first instance of "Pax Romana" appears in AD 55- 28 years after Augustus died.

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, doram said:

The premiere was good. Does anyone know how it did ratings wise and if the move to Thursdays boosted or hurt it?

The premiere got a 1.0, in line with the show's average last season (1.1). On one hand, it's good news since a new night might have caught viewers off guard, so the fact it held from last season means its audience is still strong. On the other hand, it premiered against reruns, which could have meant that the show should have pulled in more viewers who were "looking for something to watch".

(I don't know how much that argument holds water this early in the season, especially at a time of year when the weather is still nice outside, but the article makes that point so I included it)

Make that of what you will. I think it's a good start and shows that at least we've got a devoted audience to the show.

[paigow]

What state is Gotham City in? "GC" ??? cannot look up fake zip code...

[Lantern7]

4 minutes ago, paigow said:

What state is Gotham City in? "GC" ??? cannot look up fake zip code...

The Great State of Panic would be my first guess. #rimshot

[Kathemy]

Sorry, forgot about the forum.

Doux: Pax Penguina

Really liked this one.

[Harley Quinn]

--EDIT--

Don't know how to delete post so editing it to remove question.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Harley Quinn
Wrong Info

[John Potts]

As soon as I heard of the licenses, I immediately thought of Terry Pratchett ("Thieves were far better at controlling crime than the Watch had ever been. After all, the Watch had to work twice as hard to cut crime just a little, whereas all the Thieves Guild had to do was work less." - Guards! Guards!) I couldn't really get behind Gordon for opposing the scheme that had actually made citizens safer. If you want the credit, being a policeman is a terrible vocation to choose!

Secondly, if I had a scheme to run organised crime (...and you can't prove it!) - I would make damn sure that nobody knew who had "the list". In fact, I would probably suggest that somebody else was the person that looked after it (and give them a dummy list). This is why I am would be a  much more effective criminal mastermind than Penguin!

On ‎22‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 2:06 AM, Danielg342 said:

Alfred: why can't you two just go to the cinema like regular teenagers?

Loved that! The Cat/Bat relationship is perhaps the truest to the comics and a great source of comic relief too. Because of course they can only talk while perched on rooftops!

On ‎22‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 2:33 AM, Lantern7 said:

I like the transformation: your demon can't haunt you if you wear its skin.

Presumably he will inspire Bruce to do the same. Canonically, Bruce chose bats because he was afraid of them. But nice to see Bruce as BabyBat is still learning and isn't the Goddam Batman yet - that was a pretty big screw up.

[Joe Hellandback]

1 hour ago, John Potts said:

As soon as I heard of the licenses, I immediately thought of Terry Pratchett ("Thieves were far better at controlling crime than the Watch had ever been. After all, the Watch had to work twice as hard to cut crime just a little, whereas all the Thieves Guild had to do was work less." - Guards! Guards!) I couldn't really get behind Gordon for opposing the scheme that had actually made citizens safer. If you want the credit, being a policeman is a terrible vocation to choose!

Secondly, if I had a scheme to run organised crime (...and you can't prove it!) - I would make damn sure that nobody knew who had "the list". In fact, I would probably suggest that somebody else was the person that looked after it (and give them a dummy list). This is why I am would be a  much more effective criminal mastermind than Penguin!

Loved that! The Cat/Bat relationship is perhaps the truest to the comics and a great source of comic relief too. Because of course they can only talk while perched on rooftops!

Presumably he will inspire Bruce to do the same. Canonically, Bruce chose bats because he was afraid of them. But nice to see Bruce as BabyBat is still learning and isn't the Goddam Batman yet - that was a pretty big screw up.

Fellow Brit, huh? I had given up on Channel 5 ever showing the rest of the series despite the fact that it was a major hit for them, I figure they'd spent their budget on Will&Grace.   

[Joe Hellandback]

Love this series, my favourite of the moment, watched this ep 3 times!

1. Mike Buscemi! Knew he looked familiar and when you saw the name in the credits you instantly knew who he was. Very much a successful actor in his own right and a busy, busy boy according to IMDB.

2. Tabitha and Selina, the tabby and the kitty. So they're girlfriends and partners but are they 'girlfriends and partners' as Tabitha and Barbara were? I like to think so and I'm sure there's plenty of slashfic on the matter. Love the dynamic between them and Ivy, the green eyed monster rearing its' head (remember Ivy is still just a little kid in a hot woman's body) . Camren gets more beautiful with every episode and Jessica Lucas is the sexiest woman on TV. 

3. So now we have the Scarecrow? Feel sorry for Jonathon, he may be a monster but he was also the victim in all this. I'd love to see the effect of his serum on various characters, what does Tabitha fear (Theo Galavan?). What does Selina fear?

4. The crime licence seems a bit hokey but seems to make sense, someone should write a books on 'Thuganomics'. It rather reminds me of the Angel ep 'The Thin Dead Line', choosing to allow more normal violent crime rather than have 'benevolent oppression'.

5. No more Mayor James? Awww, I really liked Richard Kind in this role, I think one of most appealing things about Gotham is that it makes you genuinely care about people who are essentially despicable (very Jim light ep). I hope we see him again.

6. So Bruce is now the proto Batman? My theory was always that it was his clone who was working the streets.

7. David seems to be getting very tall, if (fingers crossed) we get a season 5 he should hit the gym so he looks like the more muscular Batman of the modern comics.

8. Zsasz always gave me the creeps and I was surprised to see him flirt with Tabitha, he always struck me as somewhat asexual. The ring gag is funny though and like a bit of Rick Astley.  

A week seems a long time to wait for the next ep! 

[Camera One]

This was a reasonably fun season premiere.  I agree the citizens wouldn't feel too safe even with the crime licenses.  You can't even go to a wedding or walk down an alley without experiencing an armed robbery.  

Bruce wasn't thinking of that record keeper's fate when he stole the list.  There isn't much of a point of stealing the list once, since new licenses would constantly be added.  

Is there a reason why Bruce was talking to Gordon and pretty much everyone in such a robotic emotion-less manner of speech?  He didn't seem that inhuman before he was brainwashed.  I did like noiseless appearance and disappearance with Jim, though.