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A New Beginning: OUAT 2.0

formerlyfreedom

By formerlyfreedom
in Once Upon A Time

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Shanna Marie
Shanna Marie

People are more likely to complain than praise. If you like something, as an average viewer you may just watch it. If they change the thing you like so that you no longer like it, you complain to a pl

Shanna Marie
Shanna Marie

I think I've figured out one reason people aren't taking to this version of Cinderella: A key character trait in almost every version of the Cinderella story is that she's kind. That's the whole point

Camera One
Camera One

They don't think they're phoning it in.  This is epic to them, since they're delusional.  They wrote Cinderella as they would have a non-POC actress.  As usual, A&E have no awareness of how things

KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)
8 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

And her new romance is not exactly setting everything on fire. 

IMO, anyone still watching has been paying attention to spoilers. So it wasn't a surprise to anyone. Personally, as a former Evil Regal, I find it to be a slap in the face to Outlaw Queen and most of Regina's character arc. I don't mind Regina finding a love interest, but after all the crap she went through (what we ALL went through) to preserve her past relationships, this one is just kind of dropped on without a second thought. It's like Willow and Kennedy.

Imagine if Hook died tragically and then a season later, we get a cliffhanger with Emma making out with Naveen. 

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Kktjones

Kktjones

I assume we'll hear within the next week or so if any of the original cast is coming back for the series finale. Does anyone have any thoughts on how they might integrate people like Snow, Charming and Emma into this story? Belle is a little easier as her story would be (and always has been) solely with Rumple. But given that HH is years behind SB, how could they bring these two worlds together? Especially since the timeline is so messed up, I just can't figure out how it could work, what year it might be, how old the characters would be (including Hook & Emma's baby).

Everyone here is so much more thoughtful and creative than the writers, I thought you all might have an idea of how it could all make sense and end in a satisfactory way...

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

(edited)
1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

Personally, as a former Evil Regal, I find it to be a slap in the face to Outlaw Queen and most of Regina's character arc. I don't mind Regina finding a love interest, but after all the crap she went through (what we ALL went through) to preserve her past relationships, this one is just kind of dropped on without a second thought.

 

Oh, I agree. Even without being a Regina or OQ fan, this new romance still seems out of place and almost offensive, especially with setting up a connection between them in the past in the post-Daniel/rejecting Robin Hood era. Why couldn't Regina and Facilier have met in the Disenchanted Forest? Why drag their history back to the EQ era, unless it's just one more excuse for A&E to indulge in Evil Cleavage Porn one last time. 

Season 7 was a new beginning for Regina, and her new romance should have been unconnected to her past. At least Facilier doesn't seem to be one of her former victims. IMO, it was entirely unnecessary to give Regina a romantic Happy Ending. That ship sailed with the death of Robin, and they overextended it with Robin Hook 2.0/Clone Queen. 

Edited by Rumsy4
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Camera One

Camera One

8 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

At least Facilier doesn't seem to be one of her former victims. 

LOL, you reminded us that on this show, it could ALWAYS be worse.

9 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Why drag their history back to the EQ era, unless it's just one more excuse for A&E to indulge in Evil Cleavage Porn one last time. 

Since they didn't destroy Regina's backstory in S6, they could always make Facilier's Regina's childhood sweetheart before Daniel.

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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

The writers don't look at the ensemble as a group, but rather a series of separate storylines.

That's the problem with their "centric" structure. Instead of just writing the story and letting it build any kind of narrative or emotional momentum, they have to do stories for individual characters that bring everything to a screeching halt. We had kind of an emotional high point last week with Victoria's sacrifice for Ivy, but there's no follow up to that at all, other than the somewhat related story of Weaver and Rogers investigating the coven. We don't even see Ivy, so we don't know how she's reacting. Is she more evil than ever, has she given up on revenge, has she figured out that she was used? We don't see what Gothel is up to. Instead of letting the story continue and build, we have to stop everything for an enthralling hour about food trucks.

54 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

I assume we'll hear within the next week or so if any of the original cast is coming back for the series finale. Does anyone have any thoughts on how they might integrate people like Snow, Charming and Emma into this story? Belle is a little easier as her story would be (and always has been) solely with Rumple. But given that HH is years behind SB, how could they bring these two worlds together? Especially since the timeline is so messed up, I just can't figure out how it could work, what year it might be, how old the characters would be (including Hook & Emma's baby).

My personal theory and wish (not that I think it will actually happen) is that Hyperion Heights will get so screwed up that Roni-Regina will in desperation contact 2018 Regina and warn her not to let Henry leave town the way he did. Then that resolves it all, and the finale can be some random adventure involving the original cast in present-day Storybrooke and Original Recipe Enchanted Forest.

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Camera One

Camera One

(edited)
17 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

That's the problem with their "centric" structure. Instead of just writing the story and letting it build any kind of narrative or emotional momentum, they have to do stories for individual characters that bring everything to a screeching halt. We had kind of an emotional high point last week with Victoria's sacrifice for Ivy, but there's no follow up to that at all, other than the somewhat related story of Weaver and Rogers investigating the coven. We don't even see Ivy, so we don't know how she's reacting. Is she more evil than ever, has she given up on revenge, has she figured out that she was used? We don't see what Gothel is up to. Instead of letting the story continue and build, we have to stop everything for an enthralling hour about food trucks.

Yes.  They've been doing this for 6 seasons (eg. "The Bear King") and "Lost" did this as well.  What's astounding is that they are not adjusting their formula, even though they know this is a season with a bunch of newbies that viewers are still "trying" to get used to and a season where retaining viewers week-to-week is not guaranteed.  It shows a complete lack of self awareness and/or over-confidence and arrogance that their stories are always going to be worth watching.

Edited by Camera One
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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)
47 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Yes.  They've been doing this for 6 seasons (eg. "The Bear King") and "Lost" did this as well.  What's astounding is that they are not adjusting their formula, even though they know this is a season with a bunch of newbies that viewers are still "trying" to get used to and a season where retaining viewers week-to-week is not guaranteed.  It shows a complete lack of self awareness and/or over-confidence and arrogance that their stories are always going to be worth watching.

Lost would take some big reveal, cliffhanger, or emotional high-point, then follow up with something completely irrelevant. We were all interested in the Others after we saw them incarcerate Jack/Kate/Sawyer, but let's go right into a Sun centric about her affair that no one was asking for. We discovered the Hatch and have a million questions about it... time for a Michael episode about his custody battle over Walt. Granted, it wasn't as bad, but A&E like to take the worst aspects of Lost and amplify them on OUAT.

It's obvious the writers don't care about what's going on. They're just doing random centrics because at the beginning of planning things out, they had a quota for each character. 

Edited by KingOfHearts
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superloislane

superloislane

3 hours ago, Camera One said:

Tiana did seem to be one of the favorite new characters from 7A, so it's hard to tell if the slight ratings bump was due to her having a centric, or due to people liking the previous episode, or due to more people remembering the show was "back", or due to random factors.  

I'm not watching this season at all so maybe it's one of the things you said but isn't it a pattern that when the second half of a season airs, the second episode gets a slight bump in the ratings over the premiere episode of the second half? I have no idea why that kept happening but it looks like it has continued

Camera One

Camera One

(edited)
47 minutes ago, superloislane said:

I'm not watching this season at all so maybe it's one of the things you said but isn't it a pattern that when the second half of a season airs, the second episode gets a slight bump in the ratings over the premiere episode of the second half? I have no idea why that kept happening but it looks like it has continued

I just looked and you're right.  This trend started in 3B for the first time, and has been the case ever since.  The third episode back usually gets a steep drop though.  Watch out next week.

Edited by Camera One
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Camera One

Camera One

13 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I forget he was driving Not!Uber. Has that even been mentioned since the first episode of the season?

Apparently, he only does it at night and it nets him more money than he'll ever need.

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It was just another irrelevant "cool idea" just like Zelena's job as a fitness instructor. 

LOL, and Mader's entire interview was about that.  It is soooooooooo relevant.

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)
21 minutes ago, Camera One said:

LOL, and Mader's entire interview was about that.  It is soooooooooo relevant.

Zelena in 7x10: "I have a job! I have a fiance! I can't just drop everything! It's still my life, even if I was cursed!"
Zelena in 7x11: "We should totally run the bar together again! Let's team up and fight magical villains!"

If I were Zelena's fiance, I would be very concerned if she stopped talking to me for a week and nobody knew where she went.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

Henry's podcast sounds so freaking boring and lame, I am now extra glad he never became an Author. He would have followed the most boring person in the entire multiverse (maybe some dude with floppy hair who has an affinity for mix tapes?) and written a story so boring, the entire multiverse would implode. Or he would have created the most boring person in the entire multiverse, and created a world so boring and pretentious, the whole multiverse would implode. 

I always forget whether the Authors were supposed to be creepy reality shapers, or just creepy voyeurs. Or both. 

Camera One

Camera One

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Henry's podcast sounds so freaking boring and lame,

It was cringeworthy to listen to.  And it's not as if Henry has really become a fixture in the neighborhood of invisible people.  Why would people have any idea who he was, much less listen to his dumb podcast?  In Season 1, the town actually had people and Emma interacted with many of them and by this point in the season, she was the Sheriff and had a defined role.  

Here was Henry's podcast transcript:

Quote

Every story comes to an end.  But who gets to decide when that is?  Or whose story it really is, anyway?

I came to Hyperion Heights to unravel a mystery.  What drove a powerful real-estate developer to try to buy up an entire neighborhood? What deals did she have to make? And what other secrets was she keeping?

These questions continue to haunt this neighborhood even after her untimely and tragic death. 

I've tried to answer these questions myself.  But every stone I uncover just leads to another stone. 

And then there's the most important question of all. What could possibly happen next? I invite you to join me to find out.  Welcome to H-Town.

Half of it are questions, and completely lacking in substance.  Many of the lines/questions don't even flow into the next one.  

Basically, he's saying he came to Hyperion Heights and figured out nothing.  

To the viewer, Victoria had a secret agenda.  But to the people in "Seattle", wouldn't it be obvious?  That she's trying to make money?  

The most important question of all is what will happen next?  WTF?    

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

I see that Drizella is kissing Henry in the promo. Stop giving me false hope, show! #HivyForever #StillBitterAboutHydeQueen
 

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The most important question of all is what will happen next?  WTF?    

Dear writers, the middle schoolers called. They want their creative writing assignments back.

The most important question really is - how much blackmail do the producers have on these actors?

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

The way TV writers write other writing, you'd think they'd never read a newspaper, magazine, blog, or book before, never watched a movie, never watched any TV show they weren't writing for, never listened to the radio or a podcast. All writing within TV shows is absolutely terrible and reads like a fourth grader's "how I spent my summer" essay, no matter how brilliant it supposedly is within the show.

But this is even worse. Then again, Henry's brilliant creative breakthrough that supposedly got him over writer's block was starting a novel with the words "once upon a time."

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

2 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

The way TV writers write other writing, you'd think they'd never read a newspaper, magazine, blog, or book before, never watched a movie, never watched any TV show they weren't writing for, never listened to the radio or a podcast. All writing within TV shows is absolutely terrible and reads like a fourth grader's "how I spent my summer" essay, no matter how brilliant it supposedly is within the show

I don't understand how such terrible writing gets written into a prime-time drama lasting for seven seasons. Someone please explain it to me.

Quote

Forever bitter.

Forget Robin. #JusticeForHyde

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Camera One

Camera One

(edited)

What did Jacinda/Lucy say in the podcast interview, I wonder.  

Henry's podcast voiceover was as idiotic as the Regina voiceovers.  The text is meant to accompany whatever image they're showing, so that's why they are so disjointed.

I just freeze-framed on the newspaper article Tiana picked up, and it was even better.  I know this was the props department, but still...

Quote

SEATTLE POLICE FIND ARSON SUSPECT
Seattle police detectives have found a man suspected of setting a store front on fire Tuesday evening... About 7pm, a passer-by saw Stope setting fire to the store front and called 911.  No details were provided on why detectives believe Stope was involved in the incident.

Huh?  Detectives believe he was involved because someone saw him setting a fire.

And this was from the article about Victoria's death.

Quote

The death of this great community leader has come as a shock to this small, insular neighborhood, one of the lesser known suburbs of Seattle.  A common refrain among residents is that these streets have been safe for as long as anyone can remember.  "You can't help but wonder if things are changing now," said a 53-year old woman.... "If someone like Victoria Belfrey isn't safe, then who is?"  

With its community clearly rattled, the Hyperion Heights police department is working hard to assure residents there is no cause for alarm.  "Whatever happened to Ms. Belfrey has a perfectly reasonable explanation," Detective Rogers, coleader of the investigation, said in a meeting with local leaders.  "Our streets are as safe as they've ever been.  Of that much I'm sure."

Great community leader?

Edited by Camera One
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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

27 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I don't understand how such terrible writing gets written into a prime-time drama lasting for seven seasons. Someone please explain it to me.

Henry's writing is no worse than Rory Gilmore's, and she was supposedly some great talent running the Yale newspaper.

And poor Rogers doesn't even get a first name in a newspaper article. But if Victoria died in a greenhouse, then what does that have to do with the streets being safe?

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)
2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

But if Victoria died in a greenhouse, then what does that have to do with the streets being safe?

Victoria was high-powered, meaning she was most likely a premeditated target. It's unlikely this "cult" would be dragged random people off the street for their sacrifices. It seems much more elaborate than simply public safety on the "streets". Why was there no mention of Ivy being on the scene?

Edited by KingOfHearts
Camera One

Camera One

(edited)
37 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Why was there no mention of Ivy being on the scene?

 

There was.  I didn't transcribe the whole thing since Tiana's glove was covering a third of it.  Here was the first half of the article (I could guess most of the missing parts):

Police continue to search for clues in the mysterious death of real estate magnate, Victoria Belfrey.  The body of the successful businesswoman was found last week, by her daughter, Ivy Belfrey, in the Hyperion Heights Greenhouse at the edge of ... Lyric Park.  Autopsy results are still pending, but police have not ruled out foul play.  "We continue to follow all investigative leads, no matter how small," says Detective Weaver, lead investigator from the Hyperion Heights Police department, said during a press conference this morning.  "But... we've only just begun."  Detective Weaver refrained from offering up any potential suspects or motives, but he did say that a woman in Ms. Belfrey's position had "burned many bridges".  

---

Why would Hyperion Heights have its own "police department"?  

Edited by Camera One
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KAOS Agent

KAOS Agent

According to the props department newspaper writer, Hyperion Heights is both a neighborhood and a suburb, so now it's its own town with its own police department. Except others in the props department and the costume department disagree with this notion due to the excessive amount of Seattle Police displayed on uniforms and in the police station. It's not like anyone is even trying anymore to stay consistent. 

Henry's podcast sounds like meta commentary from the writers. "Every story comes to an end.  But who gets to decide when that is?  Or whose story it really is, anyway?" Whatever, show.

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andromeda331

andromeda331

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 4:22 PM, KingOfHearts said:

Granted, it wasn't as bad, but A&E like to take the worst aspects of Lost and amplify them on OUAT.

This will never stop amazing me. You would think they would have learned from Lost. See what they did right and what they did wrong and fix what they did wrong.  Nope, not A&E. They did the opposite.   

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

12 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I don't understand how such terrible writing gets written into a prime-time drama lasting for seven seasons. Someone please explain it to me.

There are plenty of poor quality shows on TV. ONCE is particular, had a lot of good things going for it early on--the writers' (and some actors') LOST pedigree, excellent cast, actor chemistry, the Fairy Tale-tie up, and a coherent storyline in the first season. It went downhill from there, but the Frozen arc gave it another boost. And by then, the show had a set of obsessive viewers hooked on certain characters or pairings that made it difficult to stop watching, even after it started derailing.

Mabinogia

Mabinogia

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

And by then, the show had a set of obsessive viewers hooked on certain characters or pairings that made it difficult to stop watching, even after it started derailing.

Never underestimate the loyalty of the viewing public. I stuck with it long past it's prime based on loyalty to favorite characters and a hope things might improve. Then I gave up. 

I would love to know the ratio of old viewers vs new. Like, has this show picked up new viewers, particularly with this last season? Because I can't imagine so. I feel like the majority of the audience has been with the show since, if not the very beginning, at least early on. I can't think of any reason a new viewer would come to this show. If anyone here is a new viewer I would love to hear what drew you in. I'm not judging, I just, as a viewer from the very first ep I can't get past what this show used to be to understand why someone would be drawn to what it is now.

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

(edited)

New headcanon as to why Regina was so quick to drop everything and move to the Disenchanted Forest. Somebody in Storybrooke finally decided to challenge Regina for the mayoral position and won the first historic mayoral elections in Storybrooke by a landslide.

Emma and Hook have had to step up and actually be sheriffs as the newly appointed mayor didn’t hold with neopotism and feeding prisoners half-eaten pop-tarts. 

As for Mary Margaret, she spent less and less time coddling Regina, as her workload increased between running the farm, raising Snowflake, and teaching physics. Zelena’s main focus was on her daughter.

With Henry gone, her position taken over by somebody else, her old cheerleading squad out of commission, and zero love-life, Regina had practically nothing going on for her in Storybrooke. 

Edited by Rumsy4
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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

5 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

New headcanon as to why Regina was so quick to drop everything and move to the Disenchanted Forest. Somebody in Storybrooke finally decided to challenge Regina for the mayoral position and won the first historic mayoral elections in Storybrooke by a landslide.

Now you've got me wondering who the new mayor is.

Camera One

Camera One

I was reading a review article from BuddyTV.  Here is a quote from it:

Quote

The introduction of the characters from that land where Henry ended up seemed okay. But the introductions seem to never end! It seems like each week we meet a new character. I guess when the writers started fleshing out the rest of the series, maybe they thought they'd have a little bit longer than one extra season.... But here we are, meeting Gothel's witch friend Leota in "Secret Garden" and Prince Naveen in "A Taste of the Heights."

With the end of the series nearing, it's not smart to keep introducing new characters that won't have storylines fleshed out. In the past, new characters were introduced each season, not each episode. I find it harder and harder to keep track of a show that was hard to keep track of in the first place.

Are there really more characters being introduced, than previously?  Or is it an illusion because so much of the cast is new this year?  

KAOS Agent

KAOS Agent

I don't think the problem is so many new characters (although I agree there are a lot), but the problem is that unlike in previous seasons, these new characters aren't a part of the community like they were in Storybrooke. Those people didn't need to feature in an episode, but they could be seen occasionally or even referenced doing something and everyone knew they existed and who they were. This season there is no central community of supporting characters to draw from, so character centrics involve a bunch of people the audience has never met and then they disappear into the ether for months until the next time that character has a centric and the audience is stuck desperately trying to remember who the person was and how they fit into the story and why they should care. 

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Camera One

Camera One

(edited)
12 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Lucy said it's the first flower Henry gave her mother. Was this in HH? I don't remember that scene. Not that I pay attention to any Murderella/Henry scenes.

Time for a rewatch of the whole season.  Henry was going to grab some hyacinths when Cinders punched him in the face.

Edited by Camera One
Camera One

Camera One

10 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Also - Emma and Mary Margaret were two straight women, which barred any inappropriate incest-y chemistry. I get that Regina is now with Facilier and Henry wants Jacinda, but those relationships don't feel the strongest. I'm not saying there's any possibility that Regina and Henry could get together, just that it's more impossible to insinuate than Emma/MM. It's a lot on the actors, too. Emma and Mary Margaret were gal pal roommates who talked about boy problems. Roni and Henry were two strangers in a bar with no real reasons to be buddy-buddy.

It's something they really didn't think through when they came up with this requel.  I think Regina/Henry were supposed to be reminiscent of the Season 1 scenario of a parent and adult child interacting without knowing their real connection.  The other problem is we're used to seeing Henry as a teenager, which makes it even more icky when he says stuff like "At least one of us had a good night" to Roni after her night with Dr. Facilier.

Quote

Her internal conflict is meant to be about her relationship with Mr. Shadi, but she doesn't seem all that indecisive about it. She's just banging him and we don't know why they're even a thing. 

Now now now, they could just be playing chess.

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

Henry kind of sucks. I think the writers took all the complaints about Emma being boring or passive, then multiplied those flaws times ten. His choices don't affect the plot at all. Why's he with Jacinda? Because Lucy and Roni pushed him to. Why is he suddenly talking to Drizella? Because she asked him to. He never goes out and does anything on his own accord. He just stands around waiting for some dominant woman to nudge him in any given direction. 

Rogers isn't too great, either. He's mostly just a pawn for Gothel/Weaver.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

10 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Rogers isn't too great, either. He's mostly just a pawn for Gothel/Weaver.

I don't like how much Gothel and Weaver are playing him, even if for different reasons. But at least he's blundering about, doing something. You could take Henry out of this season, and it would make no difference. It's hard to be invested in Henry's romance and family because the writing isn't inspired and the acting is insipid. Even veteran OUAT actors couldn't elevate this crap.

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Camera One

Camera One

(edited)
28 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Henry kind of sucks. I think the writers took all the complaints about Emma being boring or passive, then multiplied those flaws times ten. His choices don't affect the plot at all. Why's he with Jacinda? Because Lucy and Roni pushed him to. Why is he suddenly talking to Drizella? Because she asked him to. He never goes out and does anything on his own accord. He just stands around waiting for some dominant woman to nudge him in any given direction. 

 

That is such an accurate description.  His entire character arc is basically, he wants Jacinda.  There is nothing else driving him, no internal conflict, no real goals.  There is no actual reason for him to be in Hyperion Heights aside from Jacinda.  I'm not even sure why they bothered giving him a Cursed backstory because it was only relevant for 5 minutes, literally.  They've given us no reason to care about this guy except that he's supposed to be Henry, except even after 13 episodes, I still don't really see him as Henry.

Edited by Camera One
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Camera One

Camera One

Remember last year when we were talking about how the show would be better without magic.  The situation this season with Hyperion Heights is mostly without magic, but it has also been a huge disappointment.  First of all, there is still limited magic, but only the villain has access to it.  Secondly, Regina, Zelena and Rumple NOT having magic in the present-day hasn't made them step up the game to outsmart the villain using other means.  More like they are being duped weekly or just reacting to what the villain is doing.  

KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)
1 minute ago, Camera One said:

Remember last year when we were talking about how the show would be better without magic.  The situation this season with Hyperion Heights is mostly without magic, but it has also been a huge disappointment.  First of all, there is still limited magic, but only the villain has access to it.  Secondly, Regina, Zelena and Rumple NOT having magic in the present-day hasn't made them step up the game to outsmart the villain using other means.  More like they are being duped weekly or just reacting to what the villain is doing.  

The villain ain't even doing much, aside from killing Victoria. (But let's be real. She did them a favor.) I guess Anastasia is being held hostage watching cartoons. Ooo.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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