A Thread for All Seasons: This Story Is Over, But Still Goes On.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I just find it hard to believe that Henry Sr.'s older siblings didn't all die of mysterious accidents or illnesses. Would Cora really have married a king's younger son and then happily lived on a country estate instead of scheming her way to the top? It seems far more likely that a terrible plague would have struck the court while Henry and Cora were off somewhere else, and oh dear, what a terrible tragedy, but I suppose we'll just have to step up and fulfill our royal duties. Henry not being skyrocketed up in the succession is about as unbelievable as Cora not teaching her daughter to dance and dragging her to lots of royal balls.

So do I. There's no way Cora would ever be happy living on a country estate. She'd arrange murders and move them up to the top.   

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

So do I. There's no way Cora would ever be happy living on a country estate. She'd arrange murders and move them up to the top.

I guess after Regina was born Cora decided to make her queen instead? That seems to be what the final flashback scene of 2x16 implied. She probably thought it would be easier in the long run and she wouldn't get caught killing at least four other heirs. It would be easy for her to manipulate her daughter into doing whatever she wanted as ruler, like a proxy. Then she could have all the power without being forced to deal with queenly duties. It was more of a long con.

Edited April 30, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[andromeda331]

16 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I guess after Regina was born Cora decided to make her queen instead? That seems to be what the final flashback scene of 2x16 implied. She probably thought it would be easier in the long run and she wouldn't get caught killing at least four other heirs. It would be easy for her to manipulate her daughter into doing whatever she wanted as ruler, like a proxy. Then she could have all the power without being forced to deal with queenly duties. It was more of a long con.

Maybe it just doesn't seem like it would be enough for Cora.

[ParadoxLost]

23 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

This is a scenario where Cora didn't get banished to Wonderland. Of the two, I think Cora would have preferred being/ruling with her daughter to ruling alone in Wonderland. 

I think Cora would have preferred ruling Leopold and Eva's kingdom over Wonderland.

17 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I guess after Regina was born Cora decided to make her queen instead? That seems to be what the final flashback scene of 2x16 implied. She probably thought it would be easier in the long run and she wouldn't get caught killing at least four other heirs. It would be easy for her to manipulate her daughter into doing whatever she wanted as ruler, like a proxy. Then she could have all the power without being forced to deal with queenly duties. It was more of a long con.

She wanted vengeance.  Killing every heir in front of Henry doesn't get her Leopold and Eva's kingdom unless she pulls that off and then wages a war to take it over.  Leopold is the one King she has no shot at marrying if Henry suffers an accident.  Regina became an opportunity when she was born.

If Leopold and Regina had a kid, I'm sure Cora would have eventually had a reason Regina had to die and she had to act as Queen Regent until the child was of age.  Regina thought it likely enough that she made herself barren.

[Shanna Marie]

On 4/29/2018 at 8:33 PM, Camera One said:

However, if you're going with the story A&E were telling, the message of "The Evil Queen" was that all she ever wanted was a friend, and she might have reformed, had Snow not rejected her after the massacre.

But there still was a massacre. I've been pondering that question of whether Regina would have been good if Daniel hadn't been killed and/or Rumple hadn't been pushing her. I don't think she'd have gone so far as to slaughter villages, but the kind of person who'd murder a stranger because he dared to be happy on a day when she was sad or who'd indulge in mass murder because she felt disrespected has some issues that might have come out in other ways. Like, what would have happened in her relationship with Daniel if he was happy on a day when she was upset? Or when she didn't get her way? Or if she caught him looking in the general direction of another woman? How would she have reacted if she had to get a job and her boss criticized her?

Really, it's unconvincing psychological development for Regina to be this pure, good innocent who was "made" evil by events and for her to be evil to that extreme. Someone capable of mass murder is going to have some issues in there. It worked okay in season one when her evil was more personal. It's still a bad sign for her personality that she's ripping out hearts to turn men into sex toys, and willing to murder her father in order to cast a curse that will destroy a civilization, but that's still something that's on the slippery slope. The village slaughter retcon (that they then kept bringing up as though it was a running joke) doesn't fit the arc very well, and the additional totally cruel for the point of whimsy murders also throw a monkey wrench into the theory that she was a good person who had some bad things happen to her, as opposed to a warped person who used the bad things that happened to her as an excuse to indulge her hidden urges.

On 4/30/2018 at 6:45 PM, ParadoxLost said:

She wanted vengeance.  Killing every heir in front of Henry doesn't get her Leopold and Eva's kingdom unless she pulls that off and then wages a war to take it over.  Leopold is the one King she has no shot at marrying if Henry suffers an accident.  Regina became an opportunity when she was born.

But as much as she resented Eva, she wanted to be a queen long before she met Leopold or Eva, so which would she have wanted more, to be a queen herself or to bring Eva down? And she could have had both. As I said, a convenient "plague" striking the palace while she and Henry are stuck off in a country estate, and they're up in the ranks, and then she can take out Eva and marry her daughter off to Leopold (assuming Leo is enough of an idiot to marry the daughter of a woman he knows was stealing from him and trying to scam him). Then get Regina to take out Snow and Cora gets to rule the kingdom through the new heir. But while she's waiting for all that, she's running her own kingdom through hapless Henry.

[Camera One]

8 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Really, it's unconvincing psychological development for Regina to be this pure, good innocent who was "made" evil by events and for her to be evil to that extreme.

It was definitely unconvincing yet also very deliberate.  At the beginning of "The Stable Boy" and even in the childhood Regina flashbacks, she's shown as the epitome of goodness and kindness (in an episode thread for one of those Child Regina episodes, she could have been Child Snow if there wasn't a name attached).  The actress also portrays that naive, innocent and softly spoken demeanor in that episode, but also in the first half of "The Doctor", the episode which ends with her Evil Queen style marching up to crush the heart of a stranger.  As you said, massacring villages takes evil to a whole new level.  It's another thing if she massacred a village and then felt disgusted with herself after, but that's not how it went either.  

Edited May 2, 2018 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

17 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

But there still was a massacre. I've been pondering that question of whether Regina would have been good if Daniel hadn't been killed and/or Rumple hadn't been pushing her. I don't think she'd have gone so far as to slaughter villages, but the kind of person who'd murder a stranger because he dared to be happy on a day when she was sad or who'd indulge in mass murder because she felt disrespected has some issues that might have come out in other ways. Like, what would have happened in her relationship with Daniel if he was happy on a day when she was upset? Or when she didn't get her way? Or if she caught him looking in the general direction of another woman? How would she have reacted if she had to get a job and her boss criticized her?

I always thought that young Regina may have believed that love was enough when she was in the bloom of first love. But given a few years of living in poverty, having multiple mouths to feed, and being constantly on the run to evade Cora, she would've been just another desperate soul for Rumple to manipulate into casting the Dark Curse. The reasons would've been different, but the endpoint would have been the same.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Rumsy4

[andromeda331]

5 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

But there still was a massacre. I've been pondering that question of whether Regina would have been good if Daniel hadn't been killed and/or Rumple hadn't been pushing her. I don't think she'd have gone so far as to slaughter villages, but the kind of person who'd murder a stranger because he dared to be happy on a day when she was sad or who'd indulge in mass murder because she felt disrespected has some issues that might have come out in other ways. Like, what would have happened in her relationship with Daniel if he was happy on a day when she was upset? Or when she didn't get her way? Or if she caught him looking in the general direction of another woman? How would she have reacted if she had to get a job and her boss criticized her?

Really, it's unconvincing psychological development for Regina to be this pure, good innocent who was "made" evil by events and for her to be evil to that extreme. Someone capable of mass murder is going to have some issues in there. It worked okay in season one when her evil was more personal. It's still a bad sign for her personality that she's ripping out hearts to turn men into sex toys, and willing to murder her father in order to cast a curse that will destroy a civilization, but that's still something that's on the slippery slope. The village slaughter retcon (that they then kept bringing up as though it was a running joke) doesn't fit the arc very well, and the additional totally cruel for the point of whimsy murders also throw a monkey wrench into the theory that she was a good person who had some bad things happen to her, as opposed to a warped person who used the bad things that happened to her as an excuse to indulge her hidden urges.

I've wondered about this for awhile. Daniel tells Regina what its going to be like for them if they run away Regina says she doesn't care about that. Maybe she means it (its possible) but we never really see Regina rough it ever. She grew up in a country estate, lives in castles and palaces later and a nice mansion in Storybrook. Would she have really be happy living in small shack? Or small cottage? Would she have really be happy with Daniel? Regina becomes such a horrible monster its really hard to think that she'd be happy living a simple life with Daniel. It doesn't help that they constantly show Regina enjoying murdering people and she got such joy out of it and out of hurting Snow. She never once apologizes for what she did or admit what she did was wrong. She's never ashamed for what she's done. She never once considers what Daniel would think about everything she's done. Towards the end of season one she remarks "We got her Daniel." referring to Mary Margaret in jail for murder. She was willing to sacrifice the last of her magic something Daniel gave her to get Snow. She had no problem using Graham for sex for at least thirty years.              

[superloislane]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

but we never really see Regina rough it ever. She grew up in a country estate, lives in castles and palaces later and a nice mansion in Storybrook. Would she have really be happy living in small shack? Or small cottage?

We have also seen her mock the poor, be disgusted at peasant life and say how she's more refined than anyone else. I don't think you get that from 'being evil' - that's just something you are or are not. If you notice when she was with Robin, it was Robin who seemingly left his life in the forest and not the other way around (even though I'm pretty sure we heard that Marian left her comfortable life to live with Robin in the forest when they were married...hmm).

[Rumsy4]

She also mocked Emma for her child-like eating habits (grilled cheese vs kale salads and juice fasts). She enjoyed an affluent lifestyle right from her childhood and looked down on people of a lower status. Seriously, why do people like her?

And shame on Robin for falling in love with a female Sheriff of Nottingham. His "code" has always been questionable.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

When Regina was a child, she was so inclusive of Zelena even though she was from a poor family.  In "The Evil Queen", Regina grew to appreciate the on-the-run lifestyle that Snow had.  Regina really was one of us.

[CCTC]

3 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

And shame on Robin for falling in love with a female Sheriff of Nottingham. His "code" has always been questionable.

Really that pairing could have had some natural tension where he challenged her and made her evaluate herself and admit some hard truths.  It would have been more interesting than him being her lap dog, more true to the character or Robin Hood, helped with Regina's redemption, and probably generated more chemistry between the two characters.

[Mitch]

5 hours ago, CCTC said:

Really that pairing could have had some natural tension where he challenged her and made her evaluate herself and admit some hard truths.  It would have been more interesting than him being her lap dog, more true to the character or Robin Hood, helped with Regina's redemption, and probably generated more chemistry between the two characters.

Hence, why it never happened on A & E's show..it might have made more sense and been entertaining.

I always thought Regina needed a strong man with strong moral code to push back on her...and I think she would be turned on by it so now that I write that and I see it would have been a "taming of the shrew" cliche I can't believe they didn't do that!

Though seriously, why have the characters this season live with normal people but no normal person is a major character this year? Instead of Zelena and her one episode boyfriend it should have been Regina who fell in love with a cop on the force, someone "normal" with a brain who is starting to piece together that something aint right in HH. Regina wakes up per Driz and has to keep herself in the closet with the boyfriend..etc. That would have been a good problem..how to tell your boyfriend..a stand up guy, not only that you are the EQ but that you are a mass murderer, and actually, a two time murderer in this very world..maybe he could have been whatshisface's (the kid who was there when SB was created) friend and he was investigating what happened to him and what had happened to his father, but it went cold in the good old Maine wilderness.  Regina's cold blooded murder in this world would have  been more interesting angst then Zelena burning the arm of a Hansel clone in whatever version of Oz they happened to be in.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Mitch

[KingOfHearts]

59 minutes ago, Mitch said:

I always thought Regina needed a strong man with strong moral code to push back on her...and I think she would be turned on by it so now that I write that and I see it would have been a "taming of the shrew" cliche I can't believe they didn't do that!

Nearly all of the men she's been attracted to have had strong moral codes - Daniel, Graham, Charming, and Robin. But then there's Rumple and Facilier, which are the most nonsensical. 

Quote

Though seriously, why have the characters this season live with normal people but no normal person is a major character this year? Instead of Zelena and her one episode boyfriend it should have been Regina who fell in love with a cop on the force, someone "normal" with a brain who is starting to piece together that something aint right in HH. Regina wakes up per Driz and has to keep herself in the closet with the boyfriend..etc.

We should have seen a normal person learning to believe in magic in order to make the relationship work. The writers totally skipped out on that with Zelena's fiance. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

3 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Graham, Charming,

I wouldn’t say she was attracted to either of them. It was about power with Graham, and revenge with Charming.

The attraction to Rumple and Facilier are the least believable.

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

It was about power with Graham, and revenge with Charming.

There was that one scene where Regina put her hand on Charming's chest and said "I can see the allure". But with him and Graham, I think it's just a matter of extrapolation and interpretation. It's not definitive.

Edited May 3, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Mitch]

10 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

There was that one scene where Regina put her hand on Charming's chest and said "I can see the allure". But with him and Graham, I think it's just a matter of extrapolation and interpretation. It's not definitive.

I think with Charming it was more like..."Eye candy" then she was attracted to his nonexistent personality...but yea, she woulda done him in a hear beat!

Ah, that scene made me think of the good old days!

[CCTC]

2 hours ago, Mitch said:

I think with Charming it was more like..."Eye candy" then she was attracted to his nonexistent personality...but yea, she woulda done him in a hear beat!

Ah, that scene made me think of the good old days!

I remember being pleasantly surprised at the time that David relatively quickly said, thanks, but no thanks.  I thought they were going to head farther down that road and things were going to get even soapier.  I have no problems with soapy, but never been a big fan of the sleeping with someone when you have amnesia plot and do not remember your true love, then are guilt-ridden later. 

I am trying to think the last time I was actually surprised by something.

Edited May 3, 2018 by CCTC

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, CCTC said:

I remember being pleasantly surprised at the time that David relatively quickly said, thanks, but no thanks.  I thought they were going to head farther down that road and things were going to get even soapier.  I have no problems with soapy, but never been a big fan of the sleeping with someone when you have amnesia plot and do not remember your true love, then are guilt-ridden later. 

The only thing I loved about Aladdin was his line to Clone Queen when she tried to seduce him: "Ew."

Edited May 3, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Mitch]

I like Aladdin for uh, scenery, the rest of all that was stupid..and I dont' blame Clone for wanting that but..yea, the was a funny line.

[KingOfHearts]

Upon rewatching 3x10, I heard this bullshittery:

Quote

Charming: "It's just when we imprisoned Regina, you stopped her execution. You said killing her wasn't the answer, so how is turning her into stone any different?"

Snow: "Last time she threatened us. This time she threatened the entire kingdom."

Regina didn't just threaten them, though. She was murdering random civilians, terrorizing the whole nation. Even if what Snow said was the case, she wouldn't be threatening everybody if you didn't put a protection spell on yourself. She could take random people hostage. It's okay to kill Regina for threatening the kingdom, but it's not okay to kill Cora for threatening all of Storybrooke? I don't understand Snow's logic.

One thing I do like about Charming is that he used to be able to call Snow out on her crap. That stopped in 3B.

Edited May 6, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

11 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Upon rewatching 3x10, I heard this bullshittery:

Regina didn't just threaten them, though. She was murdering random civilians, terrorizing the whole nation. Even if what Snow said was the case, she wouldn't be threatening everybody if you didn't put a protection spell on yourself. She could take random people hostage. It's okay to kill Regina for threatening the kingdom, but it's not okay to kill Cora for threatening all of Storybrooke? I don't understand Snow's logic.

Didn't she admit at the end that the real reason was because they were planning to start a family? Sometimes Snow puts David first. Sometimes it's her kingdom. Sometimes, it's her sense of self-righteousness. Now she claims it's her growing family. It's whatever BS the writers can think up for the sake of plot.

[KingOfHearts]

3 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Didn't she admit at the end that the real reason was because they were planning to start a family? Sometimes Snow puts David first. Sometimes it's her kingdom. Sometimes, it's her sense of self-righteousness. Now she claims it's her growing family. It's whatever BS the writers can think up for the sake of plot.

Getting your husband turned into stone on your honeymoon before conceiving is a great way to protect your growing family. Kingdom's in danger = heroes don't kill. Their own children are in danger = time to get bloodthirsty.

Edited May 6, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

The Writers caused their own problems by revisiting the same time period over and over again in flashback so they had to give reasons over and over again why Regina wasn't neutralized or killed.  And in the process, it made the characters' reasoning seem idiotic, contradictory and nonsensical, ultimately damaging their credibility and making them unrelatable props that had to do whatever the plot dictated.  Snow was one of the first to suffer this, but eventually, it affected most of the characters.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

43 minutes ago, Camera One said:

The Writers caused their own problems by revisiting the same time period over and over again in flashback so they had to give reasons over and over again why Regina wasn't neutralized or killed.  And in the process, it made the characters' reasoning seem idiotic, contradictory and nonsensical, ultimately damaging their credibility and making them unrelatable props that had to do whatever the plot dictated.  Snow was one of the first to suffer this, but eventually, it affected most of the characters.

 

This happens a lot whenever I rewatch old scenes. A character will say something contradictory to a major belief they have at another point in time that heavily affects the plot. Characters may not be static, but their development is not linear. They don't go from A to B to C, but from A to C, back to A, then B, back to A again, etc. Their arcs don't unfold naturally. They seem to change their minds whenever the plot needs them to. This show has zero consistency. It's especially grating when you see an older episode with organic character patterns, because then you remember that later it gets upturned. The only characters that stayed pretty consistent were Hook and Zelena. (Almost said Charming, but his opinions seem to shift with Snow's.)

Edited May 6, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Even within a single episode or arc, you can see the strings that are attached to the characters. 

For example, look at the latest episode "Is This Henry Mills".  Rumple and Henry completely flip-flopped since they needed to do what the plot dictated.

The plot now required Henry to stubbornly refuse to believe even though one episode before, he put up that conspiracy wall. 

The plot now required Rumple to avoid doing anything to protect himself against Wish Rumple because it might prevent him from seeing Belle.  Yet two episodes ago, he condemned his grandson to death by taking the only magic available to cure him and earlier in the half-season, he toyed with using Anastasia to take his Dark One-ness even though he decided against doing the same to Alice in the flashbacks.  

If they can't even think through a character's motivation in one season, clearly, they lack the ability to do so over multiple seasons and especially when they're jumping back and forth in time.

[KingOfHearts]

Here's another scene that gets copied and pasted all over - Rumple and The Big Bad.

Rumple: "It's nice to see you again, dearie."
Big Bad (breathy): "Yes, we have a vague past together."
Rumple: "When all the circumstances align, I'll do my thing, dearie."
Big Bad: "Don't underestimate me, Dark One. I can be a real meanie because it's ambiguous how powerful I am."
Rumple: "Here's a pun about your character theme, dearie."
Big Bad: "Mine is bigger than yours!"
Rumple: "No mine is, dearie! Let's make a shady new deal, dearie."
Big Bad: "The death of everyone except Belle and Henry in exchange for staying out of each other's way."
Rumple (giggles): "Yes, dearie! I always love making that deal, dearie."
Big Bad and Rumple kiss passionately, though no romantic connection has ever been implied.

Edited May 8, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

3 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Big Bad and Rumple kiss passionately, though no romantic connection has ever been implied.

LOL, they missed that part with Dr. Facilier.  

[KingOfHearts]

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

LOL, they missed that part with Dr. Facilier.  

Rumple's had this kind of conversation with Regina, Cora, Zelena, Ingrid, Pan, Isaac, Facilier, Victoria, Clone Queen, Hades, Emma (as Dark Swan), Hook, Hyde, and others I'm probably forgetting.

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, KingOfHearts said:

Rumple's had this kind of conversation with Regina, Cora, Zelena, Ingrid, Pan, Isaac, Facilier, Victoria, Clone Queen, Hades, Emma (as Dark Swan), Hook, Hyde, and others I'm probably forgetting.

It really highlights how much of a formula A&E uses.  Your dialogue was right on the money.

[KAOS Agent]

When you do the rewatch these are the kinds of things to keep a running tally of. It would be fun to see just how unoriginal the stories were season after season.

[KingOfHearts]

15 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

When you do the rewatch these are the kinds of things to keep a running tally of. It would be fun to see just how unoriginal the stories were season after season.

It's a drinking game that kills.

Quote

It really highlights how much of a formula A&E uses.  Your dialogue was right on the money.

All it's missing is three uses of the word "cleave" and five more uses of the word "dearie". (Seriously, they overused Rumple's "dearie" catchphrase a lot in later seasons.)

Edited May 8, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Will we get a Weaver vs WRumple make-out session? 

Hook punches or stabs other versions of himself. Regina and Rumple seem ready to make-out with their clones.

[KingOfHearts]

2 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Will we get a Weaver vs WRumple make-out session?

Golden Crocodile was indeed a ship.

Belle: "Rumple, I don't know if I can trust you. You've hurt me too many times."
Rumple: "Oh, Belle."
Belle: "This is it, Rumple. No more. You've done too much."
Rumple (cries profusely): "Oh, Belle no! I'll change, I promise!"
Belle: "Really? How can I be sure?"
Rumple: "I just stripped your freedom to protect you."
Belle: "Oh, Rumpie! I knew there was still good in your heart. You are my chipped cup. I'm never leaving you ever again."
Rumple: "Belle, I promise to always be the man you wanted me to be."
Rumple takes dagger out of man he just senselessly killed. The couple kiss passionately.

[Camera One]

I was watching some random scenes and this one still makes my blood boil.  But it's a reminder of how these Writers think.  In the rewatch, we should make a tally of how many times Belle cuts in mid-conversation to reveal what she just "found out".  How often do they "groupthink" and cobble together what's going to happen with each character getting a random line or two (where you can pretty much jumble up the lines and anyone could have said them)?  

Edited May 9, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

That's yet another "groupthink" scene I parodied upthread. I hate those. All the lines are interchangeable, and one randomly selected character gets an "a-ha" moment. In Lost, the ensemble was rarely all in the same place. While they went on separate story tracks, the characters often mingled with other groups with a fair amount of overlap. Instead of everyone running around in a single crowd, they had more of a network.

[Camera One]

From EW Interview with Lana.  No spoilers... more about the past.

Quote

 Parrilla says she was basically inconsolable when she found out that Once was coming to an end.

“It’s taken me a good, solid month and a half to get to this place,” she tells EW on set during the final week of production. “I was pretty angry at first, when the show was canceled, and very depressed and sad about it.”

So I guess the cancellation was a surprise, or at least, not a foregone conclusion, as some people were claiming.

This means she was going to be in Season 8 if it had happened (not that there was much doubt about that).

Quote

INTERVIEWER: What’s been your favorite Regina moment?
LP: Probably the moment when she finally accepts her dark self, the Evil Queen, as part of her.

Seriously?  There were so many better Regina moments than that.  I found that Season 6 arc incredibly annoying.  The focus should have been redemption and earning forgiveness, not accepting and learning to love the evil part of herself.

Quote

INTERVIEWER: Anything you wish you would’ve done differently on the show?
LP: No, actually, not at all. I’m really proud of what I’ve created with her. I feel like she was such a colorful character. I worked so hard to bring so many layers and complexities to her, and a lightheartedness, and a cuteness at times, a mother who was strong but vulnerable, and a woman who falls in love and gets her heart broken. 

So basically a walking contradiction?  It's still weird how she makes it seem like she "created" the character.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Seriously?  There were so many better Regina moments than that.  I found that Season 6 arc incredibly annoying.  The focus should have been redemption and earning forgiveness, not accepting and learning to love the evil part of herself.

What's your favorite Regina moment?

[companionenvy]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

What's your favorite Regina moment?

Great question. I think it was the end of 3A, when she casts the spell to give Emma and Henry a new life in New York. That was the closest the show came, I think, to actually having her change meaningfully and earn some redemption. S1 Regina may have loved Henry, and I believe if it was the only way to save him she would have accepted that he had to forget her, but she would never have been willing to give Emma a happy life with him, even if that was what was best for Henry. She would have separated them and given Henry memories of a totally different, "good" life. Casting the spell was essentially her version of the King Solomon parable, in which the true mother is the one who is willing to give the son to the other woman rather than see him killed. 

Because of that scene, I felt the show earned the Regina and Henry TLK in 3B. It was really season 4 in which Regina's story totally went off the rails, because that was the point at which everyone else apparently forgave her for everything and started acting like she was a true friend. Whereas the fact that Regina might have earned some credibility as Henry's mother should not in any sense mean that all of her many, many crimes are forgiven or that her ability to do one good, sacrificial thing suggests wholesale reformation.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, companionenvy said:

Great question. I think it was the end of 3A, when she casts the spell to give Emma and Henry a new life in New York. That was the closest the show came, I think, to actually having her change meaningfully and earn some redemption.

That’s my pick as well. I was quite ready to start liking Regina and Outlaw Queen at that point. The second episode of 3B killed my interest in OQ. And about half-way through the arc, I was back to disliking Regina again.

[superloislane]

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

So I guess the cancellation was a surprise, or at least, not a foregone conclusion, as some people were claiming.

This means she was going to be in Season 8 if it had happened (not that there was much doubt about that).

It was definitely widely discussed that it was going to be cancelled around the first handful of episodes due to low ratings. But maybe she doesn't pay attention to ratings, or she hoped for the best, or maybe she genuinely believed this was the greatest season of television ever so there was no way it would get cancelled? I'd say Adam and Eddy definitely had a serious inkling early on. From what I've seen on other cancelled shows, the actors are some of the last to be told - there was an actress maybe two years ago who found out her show was cancelled over Twitter (I wish I could remember who).

[CCTC]

4 hours ago, companionenvy said:

Great question. I think it was the end of 3A, when she casts the spell to give Emma and Henry a new life in New York. That was the closest the show came, I think, to actually having her change meaningfully and earn some redemption. S1

I did not want the show to end at the time, but I remember thinking the 3A finale (minus the Hook-Emma epilogue) would have been a good way to end the show.  For the most part people got a happy ending, but there was a price to be paid and sacrifices, including Regina letting go of Henry.    There was some real emotion and depth and a realness that you cannot get everything..

 

41 minutes ago, superloislane said:

From what I've seen on other cancelled shows, the actors are some of the last to be told

I believe when All My Children was cancelled, Susan Lucci said they told her about ten minutes before it was made public.  She had just done a book touring under the impression the show was not in imminent danger and saying so on the tour and they just started a new story line for her.   She had been on the show 41 years.  Granted the show was not in good shape, but they had just moved every one across the country and were still starting big story lines, and I believe had just gotten new writers, so I can see how she was surprised.

[Rumsy4]

The actors ought to have known there was a high probability of cancellation. Especially the more experienced ones. 

[CCTC]

11 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

The actors ought to have known there was a high probability of cancellation. Especially the more experienced ones. 

Esp. since it was almost cancelled last year and they had to hire a cheaper cast to contuinue, there was clearly less spent on sets and costumes, they were already changing focus about three episodes in to the season, and the ratings had dropped even lower.

Edited May 10, 2018 by CCTC

[october]

Maybe it's a PR thing. Saying the show could've gone on for longer sounds better than being all 'yeah we kinda knew our days were numbered when they moved us to Fridays.'

Though in Lana's case, it's probably a bruised ego too. She made a big deal over her involvement in the development of the season and she's the top billed female lead for the first time. Unlike her cast mates, she put all her eggs in the OUAT basket, so naturally cancellation would've hit her the hardest.

Edited May 10, 2018 by october

[ParadoxLost]

18 hours ago, Camera One said:

From EW Interview with Lana.  No spoilers... more about the past.

So I guess the cancellation was a surprise, or at least, not a foregone conclusion, as some people were claiming.

I suspect they blew a serious amount of smoke to get Lana comfortable about sticking around for season 7.  While I think she wanted to stay, she did enough "don't hate me I was BFFs with the departing cast (in the pilot)" interviews at the beginning of the season that you could tell she was uncomfortable about how the fans would feel about her as an actress/person for staying.

I would not be shocked if she was convinced to take a pay cut for the survival of the show in exchange for guarantees (non-binding) that she could have input to her new character, not have to play EQ, direct and that the network would be more forgiving on ratings because of the move to Friday and the cost cutting.

If you start thinking about the BS they probably shoveled to get LP's ego stroked enough to be comfortably on board and that on a relative basis the network isn't doing that much better with dramas than last year (and we were sure they were going to cancel last year) and that Friday ratings should be more forgiving LP could have been surprised. And the BS she has likely been fed gives her a reason to be angry that the audience doesn't have in this instance.

Actually, that she came out and said that she's been angry for a month is telling.  Actors who want to work for a network again don't do that.  Its shows a level of unprofessionalism or extreme anger at something not being said or both.

Then add in that JMo is directing, Carlyle has a mini series, and Josh, Ginny, Colin, and Bex all have pilots.  LP is likely feeling dumb for not seeing that she needed to be lining up other work and unhappy at ABC for

not reaching out to get her on a pilot to try to keep her in the ABC family as it seems they may have done with Colin.

 

18 hours ago, Camera One said:

So basically a walking contradiction?  It's still weird how she makes it seem like she "created" the character.

Actors do create parts of their character.  Their work does make up a piece of it and lots of them claim credit for a part of that.  In LP's case I think she has a lot to do with who Loni is and who Regina became in latter seasons.  What she thinks she "created" is what she has long lobbied for and what eventually showed up on screen.  I think there was no little amount of LP "creating" her character by virtue of A&E&LP groupthink and it being easier on them to keep LP happy.  It didn't seem like the other cast pushed as hard or as consistently.  At least when they pushed, they didn't seem to have as much success.

[Rumsy4]

37 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

What she thinks she "created" is what she has long lobbied for and what eventually showed up on screen.  I think there was no little amount of LP "creating" her character by virtue of A&E&LP groupthink and it being easier on them to keep LP happy.  It didn't seem like the other cast pushed as hard or as consistently.  At least when they pushed, they didn't seem to have as much success.

She's not a big name actress A&E were desperate to hold on to, so they must have liked and agreed with her ideas. None of the writers have ever contradicted her when she's been taking credit for years. So, I don't think it's merely her ego. She definitely seems to have had a lot of say in the direction her character has taken. 

[KingOfHearts]

37 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

She's not a big name actress A&E were desperate to hold on to, so they must have liked and agreed with her ideas. None of the writers have ever contradicted her when she's been taking credit for years. So, I don't think it's merely her ego. She definitely seems to have had a lot of say in the direction her character has taken. 

Why do I get the impression that years from now we'll learn about some drama that went on behind the scenes that shaped the state of the show?

[ParadoxLost]

17 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Why do I get the impression that years from now we'll learn about some drama that went on behind the scenes that shaped the state of the show?

Its kind of sad but I don't think anyone will be talking about this show years from now.

[Camera One]

This is from the Hot Seat interview, but I'm avoiding spoilers so I only read this one.

Quote

Were you ever planning to do Tarzan or Pocahontas? 
KITSIS: We’ve talked about both.
HOROWITZ: We feel that we hit what we wanted to hit. We had certainly talked about it. I think we’re very happy about who and what we saw.

"I think we're very happy".  I'm going to miss their contradictory sentences.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Camera One