PODCAST S01.E07 Go Pirates!: It Sounded Like A Falling Body

[Primetimer]

Veronica Mars is on the case of a missing neighbor...and almost hits the deck herself when she learns an un! comfortable! truth about her mom and Duncan's dad in S01.E07.

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[Primetimer]

Logan and Weevil get closer to each other, Veronica gets closer to tracking down her mother, and Jessica Chastain gets closer to ubiquity in S01.E07!

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[sacrebleu]

heh.. EC's line reading of "would you describe the sound as 'Hitchcockian'? is when I officially came to love this show.

[swanjun]

Fun fact: Adam Kaufman also played Veronica's partner in the filmed pitch for season 4. And he's been on iZombie recently, as well.

[Affogato]

I wish Keith had mentored Veronica more on cop tactics instead of letting her learn by her own mistakes, but I suppose not his nature and also wants her to have a normal childhood.

I like the boots with stars on them....sigh....they wouldn't fit me, though.

Also, I think Logan may have been the one to promise to donate them to the school originally, knows that he will later have a knock down fight with Aaron and probably get pounded with Aaron's fists for taking them...I think Logan promises money to soup kitchen, Aaron beats him, Logan donates boots, Aaron....rinse and repeat. It really starts to be more than Lynn can just drink through.

I don't remember if we know that Logan knows Weevil's grandmother (and Weevil as anything except a random cockroach around school) but I think that who he is doing it for--that and for pissing off Aaron, of course. Twofer. It is actually nicer than anything he does for Veronica, ever, that I can think of.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into this?

[swanjun]

I wish Keith had mentored Veronica more on cop tactics instead of letting her learn by her own mistakes, but I suppose not his nature and also wants her to have a normal childhood.

I like the boots with stars on them....sigh....they wouldn't fit me, though.

Also, I think Logan may have been the one to promise to donate them to the school originally, knows that he will later have a knock down fight with Aaron and probably get pounded with Aaron's fists for taking them...I think Logan promises money to soup kitchen, Aaron beats him, Logan donates boots, Aaron....rinse and repeat. It really starts to be more than Lynn can just drink through.

I don't remember if we know that Logan knows Weevil's grandmother (and Weevil as anything except a random cockroach around school) but I think that who he is doing it for--that and for pissing off Aaron, of course. Twofer. It is actually nicer than anything he does for Veronica, ever, that I can think of.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into this?

Wasn't Weevil's grandmother Logan's housekeeper? And she got fired after Paris Hilton accused her of identity theft, but it the culprit was really Weevil's cousin?

[sacrebleu]

Quote

I don't remember if we know that Logan knows Weevil's grandmother

 

Quote

Wasn't Weevil's grandmother Logan's housekeeper? And she got fired after Paris Hilton accused her of identity theft, but it the culprit was really Weevil's cousin?

 I seem to remember Logan making a pretty nasty comment to Weevil about it-- the 'spic and span' . So Logan knows who Weevil is, and who his Abuela is. 

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, swanjun said:

Wasn't Weevil's grandmother Logan's housekeeper? And she got fired after Paris Hilton accused her of identity theft, but it the culprit was really Weevil's cousin?

 First, I should have listened to the podcast first because I said things they covered. Sorry.

Yes, I know/knew at the time of writing the message that Mrs Navarro worked for the Echollses, I just didn't remember if we, the innocent viewer, knew that at this time. Although I should have because it was included in that credit card storyline, as everyone mentioned.

So, a fail for me.

The other thing is whether or not we ever see Logan do anything altruistic again? I guess this is his little bit of redemption arc?

Spoiler

he's kind to Hannah and Parker but in both cases he has an ulterior motive for being with them in the first place, Hannah to try to clear himself, and why would he insert himself in Veronica's social group when he has his own that is totally separate if it wasn't to show that he is the perfect boyfriend to Parker so all of his failings were Veronica's fault?

He joins the Navy because he wants to fly planes.

[Affogato]

The Logan/Weevil story is definitely a lot more memorable that the pregnant neighbor storyline. I think that was supposed to be about Veronica worrying about responsibility, since she behaved as an adult and ignored what Keith told her to do and  possibly precipitating violence, but it never really comes across. Keith and Veronica could have discussed it instead of foot rubs.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Anything but foot rubs IMO.

[secnarf]

As per IMDb, this was Jessica Chastain's second acting role ever! (Her first was a few months earlier on an episode of ER).

[sharkycharming]

This is the only episode of seasons 1 and 2 that I skip when I re-binge. I do like the banter between Logan and Weevil, but beyond that, it's a dud for me. I don't care about Sarah (although her little dog is cute). I'm ambivalent about Jessica Chastain in general. 

[WhosThatGirl]

I mean this episode is boring, but still better than episode 2 with Paris Hilton.

[John Ramos]

THAT EPISODE HAS TROY IN IN THO

[John Ramos]

Honestly the most memorable Sarah line in this episode is "Your Snow Patrol CD."

[LCanterbury]

Because a TV network in Australia is showing Dawson's Creek at lunchtime (the greatest thing to happen to me as a stay-at-home mum) I can attest to the fact that Jack does kiss Gayoda who then promptly rejects him as he's back with his ex Brad. It was on last week, as was the episode with the Dawson cry-face, so it was a pretty good week of lunches for me.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Oh, Gayoda. Why you gotta be so...Gayoda.

[topanga]

On 7/23/2017 at 11:27 AM, John Ramos said:

Honestly the most memorable Sarah line in this episode is "Your Snow Patrol CD."

For the second time this season, Lilly rolls her eyes and says, "God, Veronica!" And Amanda Seyfried's delivery is perfect every time. 

Kinda cool visual when present-day Veronica watched her old self run crying to the bathroom. 

[FrenchCheese]

On 23/07/2017 at 6:13 AM, WhosThatGirl said:

I mean this episode is boring, but still better than episode 2 with Paris Hilton.

I fully agree with you. Paris Hilton episode is the worst even with barely Troy in it. But this one is also pretty bad especially the A plot. It is probably because of the actor who plays the boyfriend. He doesn't look annoyed by the teenage neighbor PI or even at least worried that his girlfriend is missing (and when you know the full story he should be worried and actually looking for her). No instead he just looks evil. It may also be because it is not really related to any high school issue. But not the best A story for sure. 

But it is also for me the first of many episodes when Veronica is helping someone who doesn't want her help and in the process she is making things worse. It is the first iteration of that very annoying trait. 

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, FrenchCheese said:

I fully agree with you. Paris Hilton episode is the worst even with barely Troy in it. But this one is also pretty bad especially the A plot. It is probably because of the actor who plays the boyfriend. He doesn't look annoyed by the teenage neighbor PI or even at least worried that his girlfriend is missing (and when you know the full story he should be worried and actually looking for her). No instead he just looks evil. It may also be because it is not really related to any high school issue. But not the best A story for sure. 

But it is also for me the first of many episodes when Veronica is helping someone who doesn't want her help and in the process she is making things worse. It is the first iteration of that very annoying trait. 

Oh completely agree on everything you said. I probably do skip this episode on rewatch. I didn't even really remember it until I listened to the podcast. There's like four or five episodes from this show that I skip when I binge watch but like most series not every episode is a must watch. 

But yeah Veronica's attitude is pretty annoying here, but it may be a teenager thing? She pretty much not only ignored the person she was helping who didn't want her unsolicited teenage detective help but she ignored Keith's wishes that she stay out of it and not get hurt. Again.. this will be a theme with her but again I say it's the teenager thing. Being invincible until you're not, I guess. In some sense I feel like all teenagers go through this type of behavior, maybe not in the same extremes on this show or on any sort of thing shown to entertainment but I get it. Or I did. As an adult it is something that I find grating and now I feel very "get off my lawn" .

[FrenchCheese]

Oh yeah it is a teenage thing to believe you should always do the right things even when people are telling you to back off. But as I said it is only the first iteration and as much as I can understand it, it is also true that Veronica never learns from it. But we will be able to discuss it during later podcasts.

This episode also presents one of the bad habit of this otherwise great serie: the misleading voiceover and the flashforward to the end of the story to get us invest in the story.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

I never thought of this trait of VM's in this way before, but you guys are onto something -- and I'd say that, as well as being a teenage thing, it ties in to her need to feel some control over events and mysteries in her own life that she feels are controlling her. The way I sort of "live with" the Lianne storyline and Veronica's insistence on thinking of her as a tragic figure on the lam, versus basically a drip who bolted when the going got tough, is to assume that Veronica needed her to be part of a larger narrative so she wouldn't seem as misguided...and so that she could also then be something Veronica could "fix" or "solve."

 

I could be full of it; these are first-cup-of-coffee insights. But whenever Veronica's putting herself in harm's way following a lead she was told not/should know better than to chase after, I tend to feel like it's a control thing. 

[topanga]

21 hours ago, FrenchCheese said:

But it is also for me the first of many episodes when Veronica is helping someone who doesn't want her help and in the process she is making things worse. It is the first iteration of that very annoying trait. 

 

18 hours ago, FrenchCheese said:

Oh yeah it is a teenage thing to believe you should always do the right things even when people are telling you to back off. But as I said it is only the first iteration and as much as I can understand it, it is also true that Veronica never learns from it. But we will be able to discuss it during later podcasts.

This episode also presents one of the bad habit of this otherwise great serie: the misleading voiceover and the flashforward to the end of the story to get us invest in the story.

True, Sarah never asked for her help, but Veronica also thought she was in danger and felt it obligated to step in and assist someone in need. I didn't notice this pushiness or this curiosity in Veronica during flashbacks,  so she's become this way during the past year. And it's not just from working at Mars Investigations. I'm thinking it has more to do with Lilly's death. This was Veronica's closest friend, and she has no idea how someone in Lilly's life--or even a stranger--could get close enough to her friend to hurt her. I don't think Veronica ever wants to feel that impotent or helpless again. So when someone she knows possibly could be getting hurt, Veronica refuses to sit idly by and let it happen. 

I do see her that she's a strong-willed teenager who always thinks she's right and has been allowed to do pretty-much whatever she wanted. But she also has always (almost-always) been a 'good' girl who, before this year, rarely did things that made her butt into people's lives or put her life in danger. 

--And before this episode, she usually only investigated when someone accepted her offer of help--or begged for it. Wallace asked for her help with Georgia, the baseball guy asked for her help with the 'roided out gym owner/drug dealer, and John Smith's kid asked her for help. And even Weevil accepted her help when she reminded him that his grandmother was sitting in jail. No, Keith didn't ask for her help when she did a background check on the guidance counselor, but that was personal--Veronica was being a bratty teenager who didn't want her father to date anyone. And Keith did tell her to back away from looking for Lianne, but I'm giving that one a pass since it's her mom .

 

Oh, and how did Veronica make things worse in this episode? She found a pregnant woman who was living in her car--eating crap, not sleeping well, and probably not taking her prenatal vitamins.  And she exposed Sarah's step-father as a rapist. That's something the police and Sarah's mom needed to know. But I think it was John who pointed out that Veronica's line about 'sometimes it's better to keep things buried' was strange, especially when she was talking about discovering a rape. 

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

 

True, Sarah never asked for her help, but Veronica also thought she was in danger and felt it obligated to step in and assist someone in need. I didn't notice this pushiness or this curiosity in Veronica during flashbacks,  so she's become this way during the past year. And it's not just from working at Mars Investigations. I'm thinking it has more to do with Lilly's death. This was Veronica's closest friend, and she has no idea how someone in Lilly's life--or even a stranger--could get close enough to her friend to hurt her. I don't think Veronica ever wants to feel that impotent or helpless again. So when someone she knows possibly could be getting hurt, Veronica refuses to sit idly by and let it happen. 

I do see her that she's a strong-willed teenager who always thinks she's right and has been allowed to do pretty-much whatever she wanted. But she also has always (almost-always) been a 'good' girl who, before this year, rarely did things that made her butt into people's lives or put her life in danger. 

 

did you see the movie Wonder Woman? Veronica is Wonder Woman with a nonsupernatural back story and less form fitting wardrobe. Both decide to go to the mat for the forgotten victims in the world of men, and neither of them do it because they are victims themselves. They do it because they learn no one else has stepped up to the plate. (Wonder Woman would probably be happy enough to go home to her island).

Veronica was raised to trust the patriarchy in all its aspects, since her personal daddy was also the law in these here parts. She doesn't change after the rape (or Lilly's death). she goes to the law for help as a first time victim and Lamb blows her off, and she realizes as she shares a look with Inge that  her father won't help her either (he'll attack lamb, get arrested) and goes home and decides to fight for victims.

We do see in the flashbacks her sense of justice when she rats out Logan for his infidelity, even as she starts the slow process of learning that she needs to back off on that a little; we also see in a flashback that she is disgusted when she does lilly's bidding about that issue and it is clear to me that Veronica won't be doing that again. I don't think she changes in any major way, she just trusts that daddy will make stuff better and finds out that is wrong.

She does some things that are physically dangerous because she doesn't realize she can't handle it, or because she makes a decision that turns out wrong. She learns from them.

Spoiler

in season one she goes into the styx and is almost hurt, Logan recklessly runs in after her, it works out but both are asses--don't make the mistake of thinking him a hero. In season three she enters the styx knowing what happens because she is responsible for the other girl going there and has to do whatever she can to protect her, and that isn't reckless at all.

I think people put too much weight on how she should listen to the menfolks in her life and nots do anthing that could cause her to be hurt, after all she could ask Keith and Logan and they would fight for her. But she isn't a Television Trope Supertrope Woman are Delicate person who always considers before she enters the fight and she is happier getting hurt herself than having someone else get hurt on her behalf.

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, Sarah D. Bunting said:

I never thought of this trait of VM's in this way before, but you guys are onto something -- and I'd say that, as well as being a teenage thing, it ties in to her need to feel some control over events and mysteries in her own life that she feels are controlling her. The way I sort of "live with" the Lianne storyline and Veronica's insistence on thinking of her as a tragic figure on the lam, versus basically a drip who bolted when the going got tough, is to assume that Veronica needed her to be part of a larger narrative so she wouldn't seem as misguided...and so that she could also then be something Veronica could "fix" or "solve."

 

I could be full of it; these are first-cup-of-coffee insights. But whenever Veronica's putting herself in harm's way following a lead she was told not/should know better than to chase after, I tend to feel like it's a control thing. 

Ah, first cup of coffee is my favorite time of the day.

Ah, control issues. Control issues are mostly being a kid and not being sure when Dad will beat you so you start bum fights to make him mad so he'll beat you but he makes you do this soup kitchen thing instead so you announce he's donating half a million dollars and then, hooray, you win and he beats you...and you give away his expensive boots and he tries to beat you but you stand up to him and then you get called into school and Dad threatens your mother and you stand up for her and your mother tells you she can't stand you and your father fighting all the time and kills herself and eventually you are just totally without a sense of control in your life and have to  join the military. Happens to all of us growing up. Right? Am I Right? Also, most of the time Veronica lets Logan control their relationship, perhaps understanding these issues in some way.  He decides they are enemies, he decides they are friends when he needs her, in season three she tries to give him everything he wants and it isn't enough. She isn't fighting for control so much as doing what she wants, and keeping her own counsel.  ("women are like teabags, they don't know how strong they are until they get into hot water"-eleanor roosevelt)

I think the  real person with control issues in this episode is Keith, it is an episode about how he has lost control of his daughter and now is running behind her picking up the pieces. She 'makes' him get involved and I think part of her self- questioning  in this case is that Keith ended up involved and having to shoot someone. That's the thing she isn't sure is worth it. It is a recurring theme and the motivator of her leaving at the end of season three.

And so it continues to this day, although she is going to get him to see her as she actually is if she has to move back to Neptune and take a shit job to do it.

I think Veronica found her mother, gave until it hurt to try to help her and get her back in their lives, and then let her go. I think it is an amazingly healthy way to handle the situation and now she knows for a fact that it wasn't Veronica's fault Lianne left, it was Liannes.

[topanga]

I know we've started to veer off the topic of this episode, but love these in-depth analyses of Veronica and her relationships. 

Please don't yell at us, Sarah and John!

[Sarah D. Bunting]

We're not actually the forum jefes in here so we'll get yelled at too, come the time! :)

[CurlyATX]

I think I'm now officially CampOldie because I really felt sorry for the teacher's car in Weevil/Logan's prank.  All I could think of was how insurance may not cover it and how messed up that was.  And add me as a plus on to the LoVe shipping.  I really have a crush on JD- anytime I see Logan I think "I would".  Is next season where we see all those LoVe bathroom makeout scenes?