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S04.E07: Quarry

OtterMommy

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OtterMommy

OtterMommy

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Unexpectedly, Ben's intentions to kidnap Benedict Arnold run into a conflict with Abe's plan to eliminate Simcoe; in an unusual twist of fate, former adversaries become new allies, as loyalties experience a shift in perspective.

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Kabota

Kabota

9 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

"Rangers, to the first boat!" "American Legion, you're on the second!"

Then WTH is Simcoe doing with Arnold aboard Arnold's boat? Should he not be in command with his own men?

Shook my head at this, too, but Simcoe -- he don't care. He does what he wants, lol.

Also, I know some people on the boards have wondered what's the point of Mary being in camp, but what can Ann Bates think is her reason for being in camp? Mary clearly isn't a British spy, as Ann appears to be showing her the ropes, when she recognizes that Mary is a Woodhull, with a passing acquaintance with Anna. So, Mary just decided to live with her son in the comfy Continental camp, on the off chance she might be able to help her husband, despite having no instruction or contacts? She's afraid of the rebels who killed her father-in-law, so she goes to nest near rebel soldiers? I must be missing something here.  

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BusyOctober

BusyOctober

So, everyone in York City, Setauket and whatever town George Washington/Abe/Arnold/Simcoe show up in becomes a spy of some sort?  Hard to believe there were enough non-spy people left to do the actual fighting.  Anna, Mary, Peggy, Judge Woodhull, Robert Townsend, Hewitt, Abigail, Cicero...they all get sucked into duplicity after a couple of conversations?  What's next?  Little Master Thomas sneaks over enemy lines with a cypher in his diaper?

This gets dumber each episode IMO.  I'm only sticking it out to see how this show handles much hated Simcoe character...

Spoiler

since the real Simcoe had a very illustrious career after the American Revolution

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Kata01

Kata01

I'm left shaking my head and shrugging my shoulders. The two central plots of this final season are both ones which, historically speaking, never come to fruition. Arnold is not kidnapped nor is Simcoe killed. After committing the entire season to this, is it possible the writers are going to alter history with at least one of these storylines? The most feasible would be Simcoe as Benedict Arnold is too well of a known historical figure. Some have suggested in previous threads that perhaps Simcoe is killed on the show and another character (Hewlett?) assumes his identity. I'm seeing it now as a definite plausibility. 

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blackwing

blackwing

On 7/24/2017 at 2:45 PM, Kata01 said:

I'm left shaking my head and shrugging my shoulders. The two central plots of this final season are both ones which, historically speaking, never come to fruition. Arnold is not kidnapped nor is Simcoe killed. After committing the entire season to this, is it possible the writers are going to alter history with at least one of these storylines? The most feasible would be Simcoe as Benedict Arnold is too well of a known historical figure. Some have suggested in previous threads that perhaps Simcoe is killed on the show and another character (Hewlett?) assumes his identity. I'm seeing it now as a definite plausibility. 

Agreed.  Especially as since there are only 3 episodes left, what could they possibly hope to accomplish in this final season by meandering down these plots?  The show has already played around somewhat with history (the Anna/Hewlett thing, the portrayal of Peggy Shippen as being in a triangle, etc).  I would estimate that perhaps 98% of Americans have no idea who John Graves Simcoe is.  So hopefully there is some payoff.  After watching this odious man dog the central protagonist of the show for nearly 4 entire seasons... I would hope there would be some kind of satisfying conclusion.

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Kata01

Kata01

Let's talk about the elephant in the room, i.e. the almost non-existent spying. As far as I can tell, the Culper Ring (on this show) is pretty much defunct this season. The only one passing any sort of information along is Townsend. Anna is dividing her time hawking her sporks and having secret meetings with Ben, who is off doing "Ben" things, and poor Caleb is struggling with PTSD, while Abe is "What war? I'm just here to kill Simcoe." It's less Washington's Spies and more Turn: Washington's Revenge.

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EyewatchTV211

EyewatchTV211

Just now, Kata01 said:

Let's talk about the elephant in the room, i.e. the almost non-existent spying. As far as I can tell, the Culper Ring (on this show) is pretty much defunct this season. The only one passing any sort of information along is Townsend. Anna is dividing her time hawking her sporks and having secret meetings with Ben, who is off doing "Ben" things, and poor Caleb is struggling with PTSD, while Abe is "What war? I'm just here to kill Simcoe." It's less Washington's Spies and more Turn: Washington's Revenge.

You beat me to it. While I have tried to suspend disbelief with many of the changes the show has made, and while I do want this Simcoe to get what he's owed (though wish he did sooner and quickly), I'm mad that the person they chose to be the main character/spy (Abe) is currently doing NOTHING related to spying for the cause and is instead trying to kill a foe in a storyline not at all based on history. In addition to doing nothing, his lack of interest is also compromising other people. I know the Arnold kidnapping plot failed in reality, but I wish the show had it fail for the real reasons and not because Abe screwed it up in his revenge plot. Abe's storyline is the worst part for me.

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Haleth

Haleth

(edited)
On 7/26/2017 at 6:12 PM, Kata01 said:

Let's talk about the elephant in the room, i.e. the almost non-existent spying. As far as I can tell, the Culper Ring (on this show) is pretty much defunct this season.

And now that the British army is moving out the Culpers are even more irrelevant.  The war is moving to the south.

Edited by Haleth
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Razzberry

Razzberry

The best part of the episode for me was Arnold gathering up the troops and sped off to kick some yankee ass like it finally dawned on someone there was actually a war going on.

Next week can't wait to see Washington flipping his wig about this turn of affairs.    He was so adamant that taking NYC would be crucial in winning the war.

There's a lot of statues of Simcoe in Canada, but will Canadians who watched this ever be able to disassociate this Simcoe from the real one, or is this what they'll see?

 

simcoe1.jpg

simcoe2.jpg

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blackwing

blackwing

(edited)
10 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Will they hear that high-pitched voice while looking at the statues?

Have they ever explained the high pitched voice?  Is this what the actor normally sounds like?  Or is this an "acting choice"?  If it's a choice, whyyyyyy?

I still think they can change history to some extent.  I don't want to see the series end without Simcoe getting some just desserts.  

If they can change things to make Peggy Shippen an active part of the plot to kidnap/kill her husband (I wonder what their descendants think of that, I don't think it was historically accurate), then surely they can do something to Simcoe.

Edited by blackwing
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tallykat

tallykat

We watched the show this week without subtitles and boy, you sure miss out on a lot of stuff! I hope to be able to watch it subtitled before the next episode.

I'm thinking that we got the "dream sequence" revenge killing of Simcoe so that we'll feel a little better about it when he doesn't really die, although I am one of those who thinks/hopes that some how Major Hewlett takes his place as governor of Canada, but how they can fan-wank that, IDK.

My husband didn't like the "new guy" (Champes) and I had to tell him that he was a real person. He looked so sweet, it was nice to see him put Abe in his place. "I was told to do this, this is what I'm doing. I don't care what you want me to do." Champes took a bullet for the cause, what have you done lately, Abe? 

The scene with drunken Caleb looked off to me. I can't remember, but did Ben get pissed off after he tried to comfort him: "You didn't rat us out...but you are so ruining our plans right now!"  

Absent the real plot of spying, it was nice to see the Simcoe assassination attempt. I mean, you knew it wasn't going to happen, but you didn't know how it wasn't going to happen.  I don't mind a snaky Simcoe, just not a skeevy, snaky Simcoe.

Way to go, Mary! You tell 'em. Ben, she is not going to get Ann Barnes/Bates to reveal the entire British spy network to a virtual stranger in one episode--save something for next week.

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blackwing

blackwing

7 hours ago, ganesh said:

I thought the voice was an affect put on by Simcoe to make him sound more high class. 

If that was the purpose, then it failed with me.  I think it makes him sound effeminate.

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EyewatchTV211

EyewatchTV211

(edited)
On 7/28/2017 at 11:52 AM, blackwing said:

Have they ever explained the high pitched voice?  Is this what the actor normally sounds like?  Or is this an "acting choice"?  If it's a choice, whyyyyyy?

I still think they can change history to some extent.  I don't want to see the series end without Simcoe getting some just desserts.  

If they can change things to make Peggy Shippen an active part of the plot to kidnap/kill her husband (I wonder what their descendants think of that, I don't think it was historically accurate), then surely they can do something to Simcoe.

The actor, Samuel Roukin, in a USA Today interview -"I asked the question — at the very beginning when we shot the pilot: What would it be like if he were, in manner, the gentlest, nicest person you’ve ever met?" he recalls, adding that he even came up with a new, softer, higher-pitched voice for the character the day of the first table read.  "What would that be like if we coupled that with the things that he does and says? And it took us down a really interesting road."

Edited by VMepicgrl
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