S04.E05: Private Woodhull

[OtterMommy]

Quote

As he ultimately seeks to gain his revenge against Lt. John Simcoe, Abe journeys to New York and is introduced to Benedict Arnold; Anna's history comes into play, as a visitor from her past arrives in the continental camp.

[Kata01]

So, by the end of the series will everyone in New York know who is in the Culper ring? Feels that way. It's getting a bit much for me and going into unbelievably ridiculous territory - now this episode we add Peggy to the list of the suspicious? 

The episodes are good and the acting on-point, but this season is not as strong to me as the prior ones. While good, each of the 5 episodes seem more like set-up episodes, with nothing really happening. And historically speaking - 

Spoiler

Abe doesn't kill Simcoe and the spy ring is not unmasked.

...so missing the point of all this and that being said, can they hurry along to whatever the point is? Dragginggggggggg...

[SharonH58]

What a great episode.  Not sure how the Benedict plan is supposed to work as Simcoe knows and suspects Abe.  I was THRILLED to see Hewlett!  Love Burn Gorman.  But he knows Abe is a spy!!  But maybe their combined hatred of Simcoe will have them working together.  I tweeted about the peeing gravy boats and someone told me they are bourdaloues

https://georgianera.wordpress.com/2015/11/10/what-was-a-bourdaloue/

Why is Mary at camp?  What is she supposed to do, wash clothes?  I think that is a strange plot idea.  Loved Robert and Abe seeing each other at the tavern, poor Robert is going to end up with a heart attack, and then seeing each other at the party.  Cicero is either going to get himself killed or someone else.

Edited July 9, 2017 by SharonH58

[TV Anonymous]

So Selah and Anna had not seen each other for how long? And yet for all the time he was at the camp they did not consummate their marriage? If it were me, that would be the first and last thing I do in the camp, and many times in between.

[Kabota]

2 hours ago, Kata01 said:

So, by the end of the series will everyone in New York know who is in the Culper ring? Feels that way. It's getting a bit much for me and going into unbelievably ridiculous territory - now this episode we add Peggy to the list of the suspicious? 

The episodes are good and the acting on-point, but this season is not as strong to me as the prior ones. While good, each of the 5 episodes seem more like set-up episodes, with nothing really happening. And historically speaking - 

  Hide contents

Abe doesn't kill Simcoe and the spy ring is not unmasked.

...so missing the point of all this and that being said, can they hurry along to whatever the point is? Dragginggggggggg...

 

I spent the first two seasons of this show going crazy with the historical inaccuracies. Last season, I just gave in to suspension of disbelief and was able to enjoy it more, but this season has me again shaking my head. Some of the twists and deviations from the historical record have definitely made for high tension and suspense, but some of these plot lines are too improbable and convoluted to be believed. I feel like there's actually just TOO much going on but, as you say, it appears to be leading to...no where. I guess that kind of centers around the show's big weakness...we know how it ends. It's at its strongest, though, when, knowing that end, we are still surprised and on edge for the journey.  

 

38 minutes ago, SharonH58 said:

What a great episode.  Not sure how the Benedict plan is supposed to work as Simcoe knows and suspects Abe.  I was THRILLED to see Hewlett!  Love Burn Gorman.  But he knows Abe is a spy!!  But maybe their combined hatred of Simcoe will have them working together.  I tweeted about the peeing gravy boats and someone told me they are bourdaloues

https://georgianera.wordpress.com/2015/11/10/what-was-a-bourdaloue/

Why is Mary at camp?  What is she supposed to do, wash clothes?  I think that is a strange plot idea.  Loved Robert and Abe seeing each other at the tavern, poor Robert is going to end up with a heart attack, and then seeing each other at the party.  Cicero is either going to get himself killed or someone else.

 

Again, a perfect example. We know the Arnold plan CAN'T work. That's iconic history that they won't rewrite, so from here, they have to make it an exciting ride. But already, we have the almost ridiculous closeness of Abe to Simcoe. All the British hierarchy seem to know Abe's there. How on earth can it be believable that Simcoe or one of his minions wouldn't find out about that in a New York minute?  

Mary at camp. Yeah, she is supposed to be washing clothes, I guess, but she has no love for the cause, as we've seen, and it's a very fragile alliance she has with the ring. This is more speculation than episode talk, but seeing as these boards are slow anyway, I'll go for it. I'm going to assume that the woman, Mrs. Barnes, is up to no good, and is possibly a British informant, like rl Ann Bates. She's chummying up to Mary, so I suspect that could lead to some problem down the road. 

 

I was glad to see Selah after, yo, 2 seasons MIA. And with Hewlett's return (as head of intelligence? really?), I assume the writers are hoping to wrap up all of Anna's love triangles by season's end. Oh, joy.

I really feel for Caleb. He's hurting, and Ben's too tunnel-visioned, proving his loyalty to Daddy Washington, to see it. 

I thought Townsend was down and out, totally, irrevocably, burning the invisible ink, done with the ring? But still glad to see him at the party. His facial expressions won the day.

Abe's convo with Cicero in the wc, though. Have we learned nothing of discretion, people?!

[Razzberry]

Yep, we know Simcoe survives, so Abe's boneheaded revenge mission is as pointless as Mary and Thomas joining the camp followers.  Not to mention it risks blowing up the entire operation having Mary going around PO'd about where Abe is.  Why isn't she at Whitehall?  It makes no sense.

Good to see Selah, I'd forgotten how attractive he is. lol

[Haleth]

I want to see the actor playing Selah standing next to wee Jaime Bell. 

Yay for the return of Hewlett and Burn Gorman!  He was sadly missed as the sympathetic British soldier that humanized the other side, compared to Simcoe and Arnold. 

[Dowel Jones]

8 hours ago, Kabota said:

I spent the first two seasons of this show going crazy with the historical inaccuracies. Last season, I just gave in to suspension of disbelief and was able to enjoy it more, but this season has me again shaking my head.

Maybe the show will have the British as the eventual winners.  Then we can move on to The War of 1812.

"Mrs. Smith" better work on her cover.

I was in Simcoe's corner for a moment when he busted that card shark.  His delivery of "I win" was perfect.

Whatever an "antifogmatic" is, I want one.  A double, if you please.

[ganesh]

On 7/9/2017 at 9:46 AM, SharonH58 said:

But maybe their combined hatred of Simcoe will have them working together. 

That's what I was figuring. Enemy of my enemy and all. It's a classic plot. If Abe was actually good at being a spy, I think he might have a shot at convincing Hewlett that the death of the judge finally caused him to snap and join up in this legion. Hewlett did like the father iirc, so he might fall for it. That would basically mean Abe is a triple agent, and he is hardly a single one. 

I guess Arnold wasn't bitching about money this time, but he did bitch about hay, so basically the same. 

 

On 7/9/2017 at 4:45 PM, Razzberry said:

Yep, we know Simcoe survives, so Abe's boneheaded revenge mission is as pointless as Mary and Thomas joining the camp followers. 

Not necessarily pointless. They could cause Simcoe a dishonorable discharge or something that leaves him without a pension so he has to go invent Canada. Or just get a real good beat down. 

We know about Arnold, but again same thing in a way. Washington is playing this like his Moby Dick, and he needs a huge wake up call to get focused on winning the way. Arnold is effectively useless, and having real intelligence showing that is important too. 

I mean, Abe just arrived. I can buy Simcoe doesn't know he's there yet, but he should find out fairly soon if the show is being somewhat reasonable.

They've already said they wanted Mary in the camp because of her safety. I think they just want to keep an eye on her and that's fine. I don't find it incredulous that she's there. What is she going to do on the farm on her own anyway. If Abe is found out, she's a huge risk to the entire ring if they just ride up to the farm and take her hostage. 

[jwc]

Simcoe is my favorite character on the show.  The whole passive-aggressive way he always speaks, combined with his utter ruthlessness is amazing.

I don't think Woodhull's joining the Tory militia would have been that strange.  A man would have wanted that military service to further his career after the war.

Hewitt, how we have missed you.  Evidently, he was able to put Simcoe's treachery behind him to become the intelligence officer.  Such a good post for a man of his curiosity and intellect.  

[LittleIggy]

Yay! Burn Gorman is back! Love that guy. 

Abe's fantasy of bayoneting Simcoe was a thing of beauty.

[BusyOctober]

I will finish out this season because I am in too deep to just quit now, but MAN! This show and the dumb-ass spy plot feels like it's lasting longer than the actual Revolutionary War. 

Despite all the historical inaccuracies,TURN is just not that compelling IMO.  I don't find Abe's character intriguing or even sympathetic.  He may be the lead character, but he is the least interesting (and most inept) "spy" ever.  If any of Abe & Company's bungling were factual depictions of what happened within Washington's circle of influence, then I would have to assume the American rebels only won independence because the Brits were too busy laughing their asses off watching these "Keystone Kops" forerunners.

Whether the real Simcoe died as a result of a run in with an American spy or not, I just need this TV Simcoe to die.  Quickly and without ceremony.  I kind of feel bad for the actor playing Simcoe because if I were a casting director I'd forever associate him with this role...and not in a good way.  I'm sure the high pitch voice for Simcoe is an acting/directorial choice but I find it annoying and distracting.  In fact, I've been using the mute button for almost every scene he's in so I don't have to hear it.

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, jwc said:

Simcoe is my favorite character on the show.  The whole passive-aggressive way he always speaks, combined with his utter ruthlessness is amazing.

I like him fine. If there's people in war like Hewlett, there's people like Simcoe too. I like that he's not stupid either. I mean, it wasn't hard at that point to speculate Woodhull was Kulper, but no one else was thinking about it either. 

[LittleIggy]

Simcoe's voice is like fingernails on a chalkboard for me. I want him dead, too.

Edited July 11, 2017 by LittleIggy

[LilJen]

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 1:10 PM, Kabota said:

I thought Townsend was down and out, totally, irrevocably, burning the invisible ink, done with the ring? But still glad to see him at the party. His facial expressions won the day.

Abe's convo with Cicero in the wc, though. Have we learned nothing of discretion, people?!

Townsend's facial expressions ALWAYS win the day. He knows what terrible spies everyone is. He is not so clueless to go talk AT NORMAL CONVERSATIONAL DECIBEL LEVEL about super secret spy plans. (Cicero, come ON, you're young but SURELY he's not so stupid?)

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 8:21 AM, BusyOctober said:

I will finish out this season because I am in too deep to just quit now, but MAN! This show and the dumb-ass spy plot feels like it's lasting longer than the actual Revolutionary War. 

Despite all the historical inaccuracies,TURN is just not that compelling IMO.  I don't find Abe's character intriguing or even sympathetic.  He may be the lead character, but he is the least interesting (and most inept) "spy" ever.  If any of Abe & Company's bungling were factual depictions of what happened within Washington's circle of influence, then I would have to assume the American rebels only won independence because the Brits were too busy laughing their asses off watching these "Keystone Kops" forerunners.

Whether the real Simcoe died as a result of a run in with an American spy or not, I just need this TV Simcoe to die.  Quickly and without ceremony.  I kind of feel bad for the actor playing Simcoe because if I were a casting director I'd forever associate him with this role...and not in a good way.  I'm sure the high pitch voice for Simcoe is an acting/directorial choice but I find it annoying and distracting.  In fact, I've been using the mute button for almost every scene he's in so I don't have to hear it.

Word, word, word. Simcoe cannot exit soon enough, and Abe is just a doddering fool. But I'm stupid enough to watch until the end. Plus I love Peggy bitching out Arnold (even though I hate her conniving character), Townsend's facial expressions, and Burn Gorman.