S04.E01: Spyhunter General

[OtterMommy]

Quote

Benedict Arnold rounds up spies in New York; and Abe plots to destroy essential British supplies, but he will need his father's help.

[LittleIggy]

Behold the spork! Martha raving about the spork made me laugh. Not Caleb's torture, though. I had to look away. That was too much. I don't care if Simcoe was a real historical character, this Simcoe has to die a gruesome death!

Dad's on our side now? Finally!

[Kata01]

9 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Not Caleb's torture, though. I had to look away. That was too much. 

Agree, it was too much and drug on for too long. It drifted into gratuitous territory for me. 

[SharonH58]

What a great 2 hour premiere.  Very interesting to see the camp followers and it made me start thinking why and how they managed that?  How much security can you have with all those civilians?   Simcoe was super crazy and I too found the torture of Caleb hard to watch and I loved 24!  but I think it was because it was Caleb.  I love him!   I want revenge!  And now the Woodhulls are coming?  Simcoe is gonna love torturing them.  

Arnold is a weasel and so is his weasely wife!  It is not Philomena's fault that Andre wanted to screw her too!  You were doing it with Arnold.  

Why was Simcoe staring at Robert Townsend that look?  I didn't catch anything suspicious  in their conversation.

[Razzberry]

Fantastic episode.  Agree about the torture being gratuitous, but loved the rest.  Glad to see Hercules Mulligan making an appearance,  even by Pastor Tim from The Americans.   

Washington's annoyance about the camp followers was real.  Everyone was expected to work, and women could actually make some decent money with sewing, baking, laundry service, carts of goods, or even prostitution, but they had to pull their weight and not cause problems.  “The multitude of women . . . especially those who are pregnant, or have children, are a clog upon every movement.”  - Washington

[Arkay]

So glad to have this show back again. I wish they'd been granted more episodes, but I'll take what I can get.

 

I also recall reading that Washington thought the camp followers bogged down the traveling and distracted the soldiers. It was fun to get a look at that world. 

 

Poor Caleb!

[Kabota]

On 6/18/2017 at 8:03 PM, Arkay said:

So glad to have this show back again. I wish they'd been granted more episodes, but I'll take what I can get.

 

I know somewhere (perhaps the EW article), one of the producers said they’d hoped for 12 or 14 episodes to wrap it up, but were happy to get the 10 they did. Some of the historical beats, like Ben’s letter from Arnold, seemed a bit rushed, but there was definitely a lot to cram into those two episodes. 

 

I do hope we see Martha Washington a couple times more. I think she’s perfectly written and acted. Terrific introduction to Mulligan. Townsend’s anxiety was historically correct and vividly portrayed. 

 

Was happy to see both Philomena and Akinbode, again. I only hope his story goes a little smoother than her’s. Yikes, Peggy was quite the holy terror. Arnold continues to be Gaston. And Simcoe. Wow. It’s just SO over the top. I keep thinking, it can’t get any worse with him. And then it does. My fear is that Caleb will believe he gave up the ring out of weakness, which really wasn’t the case, but Simcoe’s parting words might stick. Very intense scene and work by the actors.

 

Per usual, the plan to rescue Caleb was another eye roller -- I mean, what could possibly go wrong? And though I get Richard’s new found appreciation for his son and toleration of his clandestine activities, it seemed rushed (again more offscreen assumption required) and a bit of a stretch to think he’d put himself smack in the middle of such an operation. On the other hand, I thought his manipulation of the redcoats and citizens, for the purposes of the raid, was in character and smart. Seems he’s being set up for a

 

Francis Poldark

edit at this point. 

 

Ben in plain clothes is never not a good thing. I continue to love all things Mary, Ben, and Caleb, as I pretty much have from the beginning. 

Edited June 23, 2017 by Kabota

[AV8n]

Would have loved to hear Herc tell Caleb "We're in the shite now, somebody's gotta shovel it". Maybe they'll use him more later, but the cameos seemed little more than a nod to Hamilton fans.

Also could have done without the torture porn. I get it, in the Turn universe Simcoe is a psychopath, and the story needs a villain. It's too much of a caricature though.

[Kata01]

I think what the show does very well is capture the mood and tone of the fall out on the human level beyond the historical events. I know how things turn out and yet I find myself biting my knuckles because I feel the fear, the anxiety emanating from some of the characters. I feel Washington's sense of betrayal and suspicion in lieu of Arnold's betrayal. I feel Arnold's ostracism, the judgement coming at him from both sides - how that must have stung. etc 

I agree about Simcoe- he has been reduced to a caricature. 

Also, I found myself missing Andre. Two women fighting over a dead man- RIP, big guy. 

[ChipBach]

Are they going to recap this show?  I loved their recaps from past seasons!  Funny stuff.

[BusyOctober]

If there will only be 10 episodes, Ep 8 or 9 should be Simcoe's death.  And it doesn't need to be the whole episode...shoot him at the start and then we can all enjoy the rest of the story.  I'm so tired of hearing that high pitched helium balloon voice.  I don't find him menacing or scary.  Anytime he shows up on screen I'm like, "Oh again with this fuckin' guy."  I ff'd through most of his cartoonish torture scene.  I like Caleb, but I couldn't with Simcoe's voice.

Peggy needs a smack down too.  I don't really care that she conspired against the actress.  I just think her character and the actress are so boring.

Any military history buffs out there?  I know the camp followers were mostly wives or female family members, and they did laundry and cooking and provided other "comforts", but when did the US Army ban them from hanging around?  I believe women still followed the troops in the Civil War, so maybe once American troops were deployed overseas for the Spanish American war or WW I just made it logistically impossible for the ladies to follow the men?

[Haleth]

I thought that whole storyline was weird too.  Why was she there if not to look after her husband?  Why would she refuse to work?  Why would Washington, who surely had more important things to worry about, care?  Why did the whole camp line up to see her exiled?  Was all this just something for Anna to do?

As satisfying as it would be to have Caleb or Abe kill off Simcoe, I can't see the writers diverging from history that much.

I miss Andre too.  

It's good to see Woodhull Sr coming around.

[nitrofishblue]

Sadly, in real history Simco survives the war and goes on to better things

[Kata01]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

I thought that whole storyline was weird too.  Why was she there if not to look after her husband?  Why would she refuse to work?  Why would Washington, who surely had more important things to worry about, care?  Why did the whole camp line up to see her exiled?  Was all this just something for Anna to do?

As satisfying as it would be to have Caleb or Abe kill off Simcoe, I can't see the writers diverging from history that much.

My initial thought was that it is a throw-away storyline to give Anna some purpose. It remains to be seen, however, as the season progresses if it turns into something more. I'm hoping it does.

I don't see the writers diverging from Simcoe's real life history either. How they get there on this show will be quite interesting - I mean, the only thing Simcoe hasn't done is lay the damsel on railroad tracks while twirling his mustache as the locomotive speeds forth. The writers have painted him into almost unredeemable villain corner, so how they do redeem him a bit & if it's believable to the viewing audience should be interesting. 

I also want to add that I found Simcoe much more menacing in the staredown Townsend scene than I did in that over-the-top torture one. 

Edited June 20, 2017 by Kata01

[AV8n]

The woman who refused to do laundry did so because her husband had not been paid in quite a while. That was actually a very real problem during the war. Congress was not always quick to disburse funds for the war (shocking, I know.).

[ganesh]

The only problem with the show hiatus so long is I nearly forgot what was going on and who everyone was. When did the Woodhull family get all in on it? I like that the dad is still a bag though. 

Benedict Arnold is such a tool. He's a bully who whines about money. That's it. 

I do like the theme about money running out from everywhere. 

[Kabota]

On 6/20/2017 at 2:11 PM, Kata01 said:

My initial thought was that it is a throw-away storyline to give Anna some purpose. It remains to be seen, however, as the season progresses if it turns into something more. I'm hoping it does.

I don't see the writers diverging from Simcoe's real life history either. How they get there on this show will be quite interesting - I mean, the only thing Simcoe hasn't done is lay the damsel on railroad tracks while twirling his mustache as the locomotive speeds forth. The writers have painted him into almost unredeemable villain corner, so how they do redeem him a bit & if it's believable to the viewing audience should be interesting. 

I also want to add that I found Simcoe much more menacing in the staredown Townsend scene than I did in that over-the-top torture one. 

I agree. At this point, I think that the main historical characters will likely end up where they did irl, despite the dramatic twists and turns from history their journeys have taken. Given how they've framed Simcoe from the beginning, though, a lot of fans may find it anticlimactic to have him ride off into the sunset. Hopefully, they'll be able to balance the history with a reasonable amount of comeuppance. Way back when, when they realized they had something in Samuel Roukin’s portrayal, they should have just gone ahead and killed the character off as originally planned, and soapy cliche as it would’ve been, brought him back, sans wig, as Simcoe’s look alike cousin, bent on vengeance, death and destruction. I'm only half joking. They were lucky to be able to turn Hewlett into a non-historical character that many episodes in.

[ganesh]

I'd actually like to see him just escape and leave it at that. I don't see how they're going to get him to be like, "I'd really like to make Canada" after the way he's been portrayed. Or maybe the way it goes, he's like, "I don't need this anymore. You people go on killing each other. I'm out." 

[Hanahope]

It was funny seeing everyone all gaga over the spork.  I also enjoy seeing the camp followers and learning about their story. 

Caleb may have blown it with that little chuckle.  I hope he'll be ok.  I know Simcoe in real life lived and apparently did good in Canada, but Turn changed other parts of history so maybe they'll give us a satisfying end to this Simcoe.  

Lol at Benedict Arnold trying to be relevant .