Predictions for the FINAL Season

[BetyBee]

I woke up this morning thinking about this show.  My latest prediction is based on the unpleasant split between Claudia and Elizabeth.  I'm predicting that Claudia will kidnap Paige and use that to try to force Elizabeth to kill the negotiator, so that she and her hardliners can be free of Gorbachev.  Since we know that didn't happen, I think somehow Liz will not do as ordered and poor Paige will be killed by Granny.  I don't really have a prediction after that, but I do think it's quite likely that Paige will have her eyes opened in a most unpleasant way and that that will make the scales finally fall from Elizabeth's eyes.  Not a happy prediction at all.  

[SunnyBeBe]

4 hours ago, BetyBee said:

I woke up this morning thinking about this show.  My latest prediction is based on the unpleasant split between Claudia and Elizabeth.  I'm predicting that Claudia will kidnap Paige and use that to try to force Elizabeth to kill the negotiator, so that she and her hardliners can be free of Gorbachev.  Since we know that didn't happen, I think somehow Liz will not do as ordered and poor Paige will be killed by Granny.  I don't really have a prediction after that, but I do think it's quite likely that Paige will have her eyes opened in a most unpleasant way and that that will make the scales finally fall from Elizabeth's eyes.  Not a happy prediction at all.  

I've never been a Paige fan, but, I still wouldn't like to see Paige get a knife in the throat, bullet in the heart or thrown off a building. But, better her than her dad.  If one of the kids is killed, the parent will just be destroyed, so, that would be more painful for them than losing each other, despite what E said about Paige being killed in the course of the cause.  I don't believe what she said about that. She was just being stoic, imo. 

Edited May 19, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Umbelina]

I just realized the way they could let us know Renee is a spy very easily.  After most of the dust settles and we get an ending montage, We get a glimpse of Renee walk down a street, as she passes a mail box, she puts a mark on it with a piece of chalk.

That's it.  We know she's a spy, and uncaught. 

She has nothing more to do with the resolve of the show.

[Cardie]

On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 7:14 PM, Erin9 said:

Seems like picking up the phone would be faster, but then we are talking about the government. Lol 

Nothing is official unless it's in writing. I acquired my jobs in the 70s and 80s and everything was always sent snail mail.

[Cardie]

I'm wondering now if the internal struggle between the Gorbachev supporters and the coup plotters will resolve things, getting some people killed and others brought home as heroes or to face trial for treason. The FBI will deduce who the illegals are but will be too late to do anything about them.

I absolutely agree that in the closing sequence we will see Renee working for the KGB with Stan and Aderholt blissfully unaware.

[AMDG]

My prediction:

Elizabeth dies

Phillip and Paige end up back in the USSR. Stan lets them slip away. 

Henry stays in the US.

[SunnyBeBe]

9 hours ago, AMDG said:

My prediction:

Elizabeth dies

Phillip and Paige end up back in the USSR. Stan lets them slip away. 

Henry stays in the US.

I like it.  But, I'm wondering if it's feasible.  Would Stan really allow an illegal to slip out of the country?  

 What about Claudia?  

Since Gabriel was allowed to retire peacefully back to Russia, I'm just wondering if the showrunners would allow that to happen to Claudia as well.  Let alone, Claudia and P and/or E.   

[MisterBluxom]

In order to predict how this series will end, I think the best approach is try to look into the minds and motivations of the show runners. What do they want? It's just my opinion, but I think that anyone who can correctly answer that question has the best chance to correctly guess how this show will end.

I don't claim to know hardly anything about the show runners. So I will just try to put myself into the mindset of your average show runners in Hollywood's TV land.

Do these guys care about the morality of the American public and providing them with a "feelgood" conclusion? Do they care about making the American public happy with their ending? Do they feel they owe the public any explanations for all the red herrings like, "What happened with Agent Gaad"? or "Who the heck is Renee and what is she doing in this show"?

I don't think that is what is important to them. It may be important on some "second tier" level. But what is their primary motivation?

I think the answer is that they want to have an easy time of getting to run their next show. They want to be recognized like that man who was the show runner for "Roseanne", "Two and a Helf Men" and "Big Bang Theory". Actually, to be accurate, I think he was part of the Roseanne show runner team but was eventually squashed by Roseanne.

Anyway, the show runners want to have it generally known that the American public flocked to watching this show. Doesn't matter one bit whether they liked it or hated it. The only important thing is that they watched it in droves and the ratings indicated that.

So the finale must not cause any big flap in the media. They can't do anything that will make the American public scream about unfairness in the depiction of America or Democracy or even Russia. The Finale needs to be exciting and generate a whole lot of buzz and get people talking for days or weeks in the chat rooms. Think about how The Sopranos ended. That is the effect they want.

So, how to do that? Well ... shit! I don't have a clue. You didn't think I was going to tell you how this show will end. Did you?

My guess is that they will have to show the triumph of the American way of life and of American Law enforcement. The American public needs to feel that when they are truly threatened, American Law Enforcement will come to their aid and save the day. So I guess, despite the fact that so many of us have complained so often about how dumb Stan is, he and Aderholt wil turn out to be the big heroes and they will have a great deal of screen time in the final two episodes. More screen time than they've ever had before. I guess that would be my prediction. But at the same time, I have to say that making the correct prediction is of almost zero importance. After all, what difference does it make? It's not like anyone is giving a prize to the winner. Are they?

[Ellaria]

On 5/20/2018 at 1:36 PM, MissBluxom said:

In order to predict how this series will end, I think the best approach is try to look into the minds and motivations of the show runners. What do they want? It's just my opinion, but I think that anyone who can correctly answer that question has the best chance to correctly guess how this show will end...

...But what is their primary motivation?

I think the answer is that they want to have an easy time of getting to run their next show. They want to be recognized like that man who was the show runner for "Roseanne", "Two and a Helf Men" and "Big Bang Theory". Actually, to be accurate, I think he was part of the Roseanne show runner team but was eventually squashed by Roseanne.

Anyway, the show runners want to have it generally known that the American public flocked to watching this show. Doesn't matter one bit whether they liked it or hated it. The only important thing is that they watched it in droves and the ratings indicated that.

So the finale must not cause any big flap in the media. They can't do anything that will make the American public scream about unfairness in the depiction of America or Democracy or even Russia. The Finale needs to be exciting and generate a whole lot of buzz and get people talking for days or weeks in the chat rooms. Think about how The Sopranos ended. That is the effect they want...

...My guess is that they will have to show the triumph of the American way of life and of American Law enforcement. The American public needs to feel that when they are truly threatened, American Law Enforcement will come to their aid and save the day. So I guess, despite the fact that so many of us have complained so often about how dumb Stan is, he and Aderholt wil turn out to be the big heroes and they will have a great deal of screen time in the final two episodes. More screen time than they've ever had before. I guess that would be my prediction. But at the same time, I have to say that making the correct prediction is of almost zero importance. After all, what difference does it make? It's not like anyone is giving a prize to the winner. Are they?

This is an interesting approach to speculation. I agree that the show runners want to make a statement. (Don't they all?!) This is their art - and their craft - and they want to tell a complete and organic story. I can't imagine how hard it must be for these show runners - or any of them - to end their tale. 

However, I don't necessarily agree with your speculation on how the show runners want to end it. I think and hope that they will be true to their story. They should not hesitate to write something that will anger the viewing public, if they feel that it is the appropriate end. They have never shied away from the fact the Cold War was fought on multiple fronts. Death and destruction was committed by both sides and we have seen that over six seasons. They shouldn't write based on anyone's expectations other than their own. And they should not limit their storytelling for fear how people will react. I want them to let it rip...no holds barred.

So, no...I don't necessarily agree that we will see the triumph of the American way of life. I think that they need to be honest and I think that the true fans of this show will respect that.

And - as an aside - the ratings for this show have always been low. Its a credit to FX - and the current state of TV - that ratings aren't the primary determinant of whether a show has a life. Quality has triumphed over ratings for many shows.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[hellmouse]

The show runners have always said that they see the show as ultimately about a marriage. Yes they are spies and it's the 80's, but what they are most interested in is the marriage. 

So I expect the marriage, and by extension the family, to be the heart of whatever happens at the end. For better or worse. It's possible the FBI will take them down, but what will be most important to the story is what it means to these two people and their marriage. 

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

So, no...I don't necessarily agree that we will see the triumph of the American way of life. I think that they need to be honest and I think that the true fans of this show will respect that.

I agree, and I think executives thinking about hiring them for future jobs would respect it too. It would be weird if they suddenly changed the tone of the show in the last two episodes. 

[AllyB]

I have a boring guess. We know that the Jennings were at least in part inspired by the Foley/Heathfield family of KGB and later SVR agents who were caught in 2010. So maybe the Jennings fate will be similar. The FBI will catch them, they will be arrested, a prisoner exchange will be arranged and within a couple of weeks all 4 Jennings will be in Russia. A potentially anti-climactic ending but still one with potential for drama. It also ties with why Henry has been kept in the dark as the speculation on the Foleys is that the elder boy knew his parents' secret while the younger genuinely had no idea.

[Umbelina]

Not a chance.

Too many murders.  The Foley/Heathfield families did regular spy stuff, not murders.  Aside from that, the FBI are Philip and Elizabeth's minor threats now, they need to worry about the Coup people more, and that includes Claudia.

I'm trying to decide if Renee's chalk mark on a mailbox will be the very last shot of the show, or just buried in the musical montage?  It's such a perfect visual, I'm convinced it will happen.  That was the pivotal scene earlier this season as well, Oleg leaving one for Philip.  It's also the fastest way to let us know Renee is KGB, so even though "our story" finishes, Stan's and the USA's does not.  Unless Stan dies of course, then just the USA/KGB story goes on.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Umbelina

[Plums]

Given the revelations of the last episode, my thinking is that the finale ends with at least one Jennings dead, and the rest of them ending up in witness protection in America after defecting, not because they necessarily want to defect to America, but because they will have worked to prevent the coup of Gorbachev so that the summit and continuing arms reduction negotiations are a success, and they can't go back to Russia because they'll land themselves on a kill list for the pro-coup elements in the Soviet government. they will receive this protection in exchange for the vital role they'll have played in protecting a pro-peace, reformist Russian government and for detailing to the FBI absolutely everything there is to know about the illegals program and their tradecraft, which leads to situations like the American government knowing certain people are spies almost immediately and secretly bugging their houses for 10 years. 

[SusanSunflower]

I like it.  I think that Elizabeth not ending up on a list of traitors to the Soviet Republic (as Claudia seems to intend) may motivate Phillip to cooperate as well genuinely patriotically preventing a real, political KGB coup using "DEAD HAND" as a manufactured a false flag.  I don't know how much E&P or we should continue to believe about what Elizabeth (and the rest of the blue pill squad) was told.  I'm guessing the Blue Pill Coup/Gorbachev assassination attempt will be attempted from within the summit ... but whether there will be two squads (blue pill and team Claudia) playing spy versus spy I can't quite picture.   P could buy himself witness protection for himself and kids by putting the kibosh on those plans.  Will Erica's husband's vital info figure beyond irony about best laid plans???   I hope Paige isn't stumbing around in the crossfire.  I watched the end of the Return of the Pink Panther (with all the various vehicles circling around a small town fountain until they manage to create a 10-car pile up in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere, a sleepy village in the outskirt) and wondered about "The Summit" and the aftermath (it may take more than one episode to resolve).  

At the moment this feels more like sports betting on who's left standing or maybe a game of Clue (Major Emerald with the poker in the study)  than some nailbiter game of wits (which I'd guess the writers hope for) 

Edited May 20, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[BingeyKohan]

I think in the next episode Claudia gets Paige off by herself and starts planting seeds of doubt in her mind about her mother, an echo of Claudia driving a wedge between Philip and Elizabeth in season 1. I wonder if we’ll see Tuan again while Elizabeth watches Nesterenko - I think Tuan would take pleasure in having to clean up a Philip/Elizabeth mess, as he would see it. Claudia’s doubt-planting will have worked and in a crucial moment where Paige needs to trust her mother she hesitates, and dies. Henry makes it clear to his father he does not want to leave the country. Philip and Elizabeth ride off into the sunset but shell-shocked and shattered because all they have is each other. Sort of like the last shot of The Graduate but hopeless.

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

I wonder if we’ll see Tuan again while Elizabeth watches Nesterenko - I think Tuan would take pleasure in having to clean up a Philip/Elizabeth mess, as he would see it.

Tuan works for Vietnamese intelligence and would have nothing to do with internal conflicts in the USSR.

[lazylou]

Wasn't there a case of a girl born to Russian illegals arrested in NYC a few years back?  Maybe Paige becomes that girl.  

I think both E and Philip will work now to save the Gorbachev faction, even Gorbachev himself since he is in the US, which puts them historically on the right side.  So somehow they will either die or disappear...if Paige continues in this country, her parents cannot be unmasked as spies...so maybe they die.  Maybe they fake their deaths with the help of the Gorbachev faction, and return to Russia, where Philip gets to meet Mischa and becomes good buddies with Oleg.

Henry refuses to answer phone calls from his dad, so he is in the dark until much later Paige tells him the truth.  He gets to stay at his fancy school because he (and Paige) inherit life insurance, proceeds of the house and whatever might be left from the travel agency (if anything. )  Maybe Stan becomes executor of the will and Henry's guardian; a car accident would be good because people may doubt Philip would have had life insurance, but he would have been required to have auto insurance. maybe the Orthodox priest could help them secure a substitute body or two to stage the wreck.

Maybe Renee does something to assist in their escape from Stan, who knows the truth, who really likes Henry and would do nothing to mess up his life.  I like the suggestion of Renee making a chalk mark on a mail box...

Also like the idea of Elizabeth feeding the poison pill to Claudia to protect the Russian diplomat. Claudia has been quite terrible throughout...

 

No doubt the writers had something completely different I mind, but I like my proposed ending!

[AllyB]

12 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Too many murders.  The Foley/Heathfield families did regular spy stuff, not murders.  Aside from that, the FBI are Philip and Elizabeth's minor threats now, they need to worry about the Coup people more, and that includes Claudia.

I don't think that would really happen as it would probably be very anti-climatic story wise. But I think it's interesting that there has been so much speculation that Tim Foley had been brought in on his parents' secret while Alex was genuinely clueless about it. And on the show Paige has been brought on board while Henry knows nothing. It doesn't make sense that the Centre aren't pressing for Henry to be brought into the fold. His schooling makes him potentially far more valuable than Paige. Sellati is a very, very capable actor, so there doesn't seem to be a reason for the writers to have decided against giving him this storyline. Unless it is because they want the Jennings children to have that similarity with the Foley children.

[DrumJunkie]

13 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

I think in the next episode Claudia gets Paige off by herself and starts planting seeds of doubt in her mind about her mother, an echo of Claudia driving a wedge between Philip and Elizabeth in season 1

I definitely see this happening.  Claudia probably tells Paige about what happened to the young Navy boy that took her ID.  I could see Elizabeth killing Claudia, making due on her promise that "This will not end well for you, old lady." Maybe it starts out as a confrontation then escalates to murder... or Elizabeth slips the cyanide pill in Claudia's tea.  I like that idea.

As far as the fate of E and P.  I see Elizabeth losing her life (or giving her life) to "the Cause." I see Stan putting Philip in witness relocation. The show already established that as a tactic that Stan tried to use for other Russians he cared about.  Ep. 6-10 is titled START.  That could be part of the double meaning to give Philip a new start. What this would also do is provide some poetic justice by having Philip lose his relationships.  That would be his karmic reward for the murders he's committed.  I'm kinda 50/50 on that happening, though.  I doubt Philip will end the show unscathed, but I can't think of anything else that is plausible. With the show about a marriage, I can see the end of the show as the end of the marriage.  This show has prided itself on being as realistic as possible, so I am not holding out any pretense for a happy ending. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by DrumJunkie
additional thoughts

[Plums]

2 hours ago, AllyB said:

It doesn't make sense that the Centre aren't pressing for Henry to be brought into the fold. His schooling makes him potentially far more valuable than Paige.

idk, I thought that was a clever bit of irony on the show's part, to show that in so many ways, Henry would have made for a much better spy than Paige, with his independence, intelligence, talent with computers, the connections he's forming at the uber prestigious prep school, and his natural perception of people and situations is way higher than Paige's. True, he never suspected or questioned his parents the way Paige did, but he was also being neglected by them in favor of her by the time he was the age when she found out, and so decided to go off and focus on his own life. 

[MisterBluxom]

18 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

This is an interesting approach to speculation. I agree that the show runners want to make a statement. (Don't they all?!) This is their art - and their craft - and they want to tell a complete and organic story. I can't imagine how hard it must be for these show runners - or any of them - to end their tale. 

However, I don't necessarily agree with your speculation on how the show runners want to end it. I think and hope that they will be true to their story in the end. They should not hesitate to write something that will anger the viewing public, if they feel that it is the appropriate end. They have never shied away from the fact the Cold War was fought on multiple fronts. Death and destruction was committed by both sides and we have seen that over six seasons. They shouldn't write based on anyone's expectations other than their own. And they should not limit their storytelling for fear how people will react. I want them to let it rip...no holds barred.

So, no...I don't necessarily agree that we will see the triumph of the American way of life. I think that they need to be honest and I think that the true fans of this show will respect that.

And - as an aside - the ratings for this show have always been low. Its a credit to FX - and the current state of TV - that ratings aren't the primary determinant of whether a show has a life. Quality has triumphed over ratings for many shows.

I have always enjoyed reading your posts and I think you are very perceptive and you make thoughtful posts. I often just skim over many of the posts in this forum. But I always stop to give your posts a thorough read.

That said, it seems to me that we will not agree on this point. It's hardly a big deal since it's such a minor point about a show we've both enjoyed so much for many years now. But I'd just like to point out there are always at least two ways to look at anything and in that spirit, I'd like to post an imaginary conversation the two show runners might have had about the ratings when they discussed how this show should end.

Joe: Well Joel, the network nitwits have been giving us grief about the ratings lately and it's starting to get to me.

Joel: I know. But we've discussed this many times before and we've always agreed to stay true to our art and produce the best show we can - true to our beliefs and true to what we both know to be true from our experiences working with all these government spooks.

Joe: I know. I know. But my mortgage is up for renewal in 3 months and my kids are both set to enter college this year and they both want to attend big IV League colleges and the cost is going to ruin me. If our next project fails to get picked up, it's going to be a major blow to our retirement plans.

Joel. OK. So, what are you proposing?

Joe: We would seriously improve our chances for getting our next project green lit if only we could demonstrate a nice spike in the ratings for our last season.

Joel: What does that mean?

I will leave it to your imagination to decide how this conversation might have ended.

But for anyone reading the above imaginary conversation, I just want to stress it truly comes from my imagination. I have no info that anything like that ever happened. I just wanted to show another point of view to support my guess about how the show will end.

Edited May 21, 2018 by MissBluxom

[MisterBluxom]

15 hours ago, AllyB said:

I have a boring guess. We know that the Jennings were at least in part inspired by the Foley/Heathfield family of KGB and later SVR agents who were caught in 2010. So maybe the Jennings fate will be similar. The FBI will catch them, they will be arrested, a prisoner exchange will be arranged and within a couple of weeks all 4 Jennings will be in Russia. A potentially anti-climactic ending but still one with potential for drama. It also ties with why Henry has been kept in the dark as the speculation on the Foleys is that the elder boy knew his parents' secret while the younger genuinely had no idea.

All four will wind up in Russia?

That's always a possibility for sure. But can you imagine how that would play out with Henry? I don't think Henry would be able to handle that. If I were Henry, I'm pretty certain that I couldn't handle it very well.

"We're leaving right now to go where? Why would we ever want to go to Russia? What would I do there? Play Hockey? Are you kidding me? Have you seen the monsters they have playing hockey there? They don't even get paid for doing endorsements in Russia. Please tell me you're just joking. Please?"

Edited May 21, 2018 by MissBluxom

[duVerre]

11 minutes ago, DrumJunkie said:

I definitely see this happening.  Claudia probably tells Paige about what happened to the young Navy boy that took her ID.  I could see Elizabeth killing Claudia, making due on her promise that "This will not end well for you, old lady." Maybe it starts out as a confrontation then escalates to murder... or Elizabeth slips the cyanide pill in Claudia's tea.  I like that idea.

 

I like that idea too. Unfortunately, cyanide has an acrid, burning taste. (Some people can smell it too.) So I imagine that anyone who sipped tea with cyanide in it would spit it out without swallowing. 

Am I ever glad I'm not an expert on this.

[DrumJunkie]

19 minutes ago, duVerre said:

I like that idea too. Unfortunately, cyanide has an acrid, burning taste. (Some people can smell it too.) So I imagine that anyone who sipped tea with cyanide in it would spit it out without swallowing. 

Ah, true.  I didn't think about that.  But now I am thinking of Claudia catching that, only to drink from an 'option 2' Elizabeth laced with something else. 

(Or we have a Princess Bride scene.  I am now imagining Claudia's dying word to be "Inconceivable!" LMAO)

[SunnyBeBe]

With this new revelation, I would think that Claudia would be quite wary of E right now....never turning her back or taking any chance that she might get whacked by E. (I'm not sure Claudia would let her into her apt, let alone serve her a beverage.)  Despite the girl talk and warm words, she has to know that E will kill her to protect herself and family.  And, I'm not sure how Claudia will take E's refusal to take down this Russian guy.  So, is there time for Claudia to get word to her boss that E is refusing to follow the plan, wait on an answer, then react?  Or will Claudia take things into her own hands and make a preemptive strike? 

Edited May 21, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Ellaria]

2 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I have always enjoyed reading your posts and I think you are very perceptive and you make thoughtful posts. I often just skim over many of the posts in this forum. But I always stop to give your posts a thorough read.

That said, it seems to me that we will not agree on this point. It's hardly a big deal since it's such a minor point about a show we've both enjoyed so much for many years now. But I'd just like to point out there are always at least two ways to look at anything and in that spirit, I'd like to post an imaginary conversation the two show runners might have had about the ratings when they discussed how this show should end.

 

Thank you. And yes, this is a great reminder that there are many ways to view the possible end to this show. Right now, no one is right or wrong. Everything is still speculation and we should have fun with it. I did not mean to imply that my answer was the correct one.

I also think that you make a good point: writers, directors and actors are interested in their next job and success at the current one can influence the next one. Success, of course, is subjective: is it big ratings or critical acclaim? I think that The Americans will always be considered a success because of its well-deserved critical acclaim.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[sistermagpie]

FWIW, there's no reason Claudia would even know about the Navy guy Elizabeth killed. 

Also fwiw there's zero reason the network would be giving the Js grief about ratings since it's been established it's low rated from the beginning but critically acclaimed. They were always going to want to write a good ending.

Edited May 21, 2018 by sistermagpie

[BingeyKohan]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

FwIW, there's no reason Claudiawould even know about the Navy guy Elizabeth killed. 

Agree - I am sure Elizabeth omitted that from her reporting the same way she was vague to Marilyn about dropping her off at a certain corner that night before she killed him. I don't think the previews for this week are misdirecting us so much that it's not Jackson they're talking about. Since we know Paige is a fixated on the sex-work part of the job I think Claudia tells Paige Elizabeth seduced a congressional intern as part of the mission, to poison the way Paige sees her mother. 

ETA: I'm beginning to think more and more of the Jennings in relation to the tradition of calling spies "spooks" - like they're always a little haunted, and not fully alive. We even heard that from Paige, a little, with her saying she had no friends and therefore could give her life over to the cause. So even whichever of the three of them live, they'll continue being "spooks."

Edited May 21, 2018 by BingeyKohan

[SunnyBeBe]

I try not to get too worked up over the previews, because they are often so distorted.  Often designed to fake out the fans, imo.  

I am also trying to temper my expectations of the finale with my distrust of the showrunners.  Yes, they have a lot of critical acclaim, (even from me, since, I have been a fan from day one of the series and often encouraged others to check it out), but, I suppose that I have lost a certain amount of faith in them.  Too much crap, imo, and too full of themselves even after things got wonky, imo.  So, I don't trust them to do something thoughtful, intelligent or in keeping with the show in general.  I hope that I'm wrong.  I can handle the deaths or the Jennings family (one or more) and even their arrests or deportation, but, I just hope it doesn't jump the shark. For me, part of that entails Stan, who isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, suddenly becoming a psychic and luckiest man in the world at the same time.  I hate stuff like that. 

[BingeyKohan]

There will be some skullduggery and suspense, of course, but I think all I really need out of the end are some honest, masks-off conversations - Elizabeth is already engaging in that with Claudia, and with herself. The scales need to fall from Paige's eyes about what her parents have really been up to. And I want to see the conversation between Stan and Philip and Elizabeth (I know Stan/Philip is the central relationship there, on either side of the law, but I want to see Elizabeth in the mix there, too, since Stan is bound to impugn their behavior as parents above all.) I think I'll only feel cheated if we don't get that. Who gets away with what is less interesting to me, and even who lives. Philip in a way has already died, and Elizabeth is ready to, so it's not that interesting if either of them actually do.

[Bannon]

3 hours ago, duVerre said:

I like that idea too. Unfortunately, cyanide has an acrid, burning taste. (Some people can smell it too.) So I imagine that anyone who sipped tea with cyanide in it would spit it out without swallowing. 

Am I ever glad I'm not an expert on this.

E could always take up distilling moonshine as a hobby, and call her product "Apple Pie"! Then slip in an extra ingrediant for special customers like Claudia!*

 

*Apologies to those who aren't familiar with a certain other Margot Martindale project.....

[Umbelina]

11 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

FwIW, there's no reason Claudiawould even know about the Navy guy Elizabeth killed. 

Also fwiw there's zero reason the network would be giving the Js grief about ratongs since it's been established it's low rated from the beginning but critically acclaimed. They were always going to want to write a good ending.

I never thought of that.

Elizabeth has always given honest and full reports before.  I can understand her minimizing Paige's errors, but it's hard for me to imagine her leaving out "oh and I had to kill that sailor who took Paige's ID."  First of all, Claudia would be interested in the ID being out there, and Paige would probably blurt it out.  Second, Elizabeth simply doesn't strike me as the kind of officer to not give a full report to her boss.  Remember how thorough Philip's reports were?  He even mentioned where Gaad was going on vacation.  Aside from everything else, Claudia WOULD read the papers, all of them, that's part of HER job.

I really think Claudia knows Elizabeth eliminated him.  The only thing she doesn't know is that Paige got the name wrong, because Paige doesn't even know that.

10 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

There will be some skullduggery and suspense, of course, but I think all I really need out of the end are some honest, masks-off conversations - Elizabeth is already engaging in that with Claudia, and with herself. The scales need to fall from Paige's eyes about what her parents have really been up to. And I want to see the conversation between Stan and Philip and Elizabeth (I know Stan/Philip is the central relationship there, on either side of the law, but I want to see Elizabeth in the mix there, too, since Stan is bound to impugn their behavior as parents above all.) I think I'll only feel cheated if we don't get that. Who gets away with what is less interesting to me, and even who lives. Philip in a way has already died, and Elizabeth is ready to, so it's not that interesting if either of them actually do.

Yes, I agree, we need some realization moments, but I think they can be done very well even postmortem, they don't have to be conversations.  I definitely trust the writers well enough to handle that part of the ending.

The rest is some real life spec based on what was going on in the USSR, and is being shown this season.  So skip it if you aren't interested in Coup details.

So, I'm reading another book now, in my "best spy books ever written, most of them by former spies" hobby.  (Obviously the ones I haven't read in the past.)  ANYWAY, the last one The Company oddly enough, centers and ends on the real Gorbachev Coup, that finally came together on August 19, 1991.  It's easy for me to believe that the rumblings and beginning organization of the Coup were happening back in 1987, over START plans as well as other "modernization" which basically meant the abandonment of communism, along with a VERY heavy dose of antisemitism.  WOW. 

I couldn't help thinking, IF Philip, Elizabeth, or Paige actually somehow against all odds do end up back in Moscow, directly under the influences, up close and personal, would they be out there manning the barricades with the other civilians who basically, with their bodies, protected Boris Yeltzin as he stood up to the party hard liners who had control of most of the military and had already captured and held Gorbachev?  Bare bones here:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_coup_d'état_attempt

Anyway, reading the ending of the book, all I could think about was our various personalities on the show, and what they would be doing that day.  I know where most of them would be, Oleg, at least, Oleg's dad though, not so sure.  Claudia would be with the heavy hitters trying to keep communism of course.  It made the book ending more interesting with the current show story, that's for sure.

Bottom line though for our show's purposes though, in the book?  Gorbachev WAS told, (I need to find out if there is anything definite about him knowing in real life) and he didn't believe it, so I don't know how much protection Oleg, Elizabeth, and/or Philip would actually receive for trying to stop it.  If they weren't believed?  Probably none, even if they make it back to the USSR.  Also, from a few books I've read now, it wasn't just Star Wars and the USSR bankrupting themselves trying to keep up weapon-wise with the USA, it was also the USA arming Afghanistan with rockets, etc., and the heavy losses there.  So Misha's story ties in with this as well after all.

When Claudia, in broad strokes, tells Elizabeth who is on the side to preserve communism, obviously she couldn't drop names, but if Elizabeth had heard those names, would her decision have been the same?  Because they were MAJOR heavy hitters.  The leaders here, included Vladimir Kryuchkov, head of the KGB.  https://www.rferl.org/a/what-happened-to-the-august-1991-coup-plotters/27933729.html

(It's Vladimir not Nikita)

Крючков, Хрущев

Vladimir Kryuchkov, Nikita Khrushchev  *names very similar but Nikita died in 1971*

Also, had Boris Yeltzin not had balls of steel, and roused citizens to put their bodies between him and the Russian tanks?  Communism would have continued.

Meanwhile, 1987-1991 is a very long time, and since Gorbachev wasn't believing any of the intelligence about the Coup?  Even if Elizabeth, Philip, or Oleg make it home?  They will be in deep shit, realistically, since Claudia has probably already reported at least Elizabeth's refusals?  The boss of the KGB, one of the main leaders of the group, Kryuchkov?  Would have her killed, probably along with Philip, who, under KGB torture?  Would give up Oleg.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Umbelina
clarified Vladimir vs Nikita

[MisterBluxom]

5 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Thank you. And yes, this is a great reminder that there are many ways to view the possible end to this show. Right now, no one is right or wrong. Everything is still speculation and we should have fun with it. I did not mean to imply that my answer was the correct one.

I also think that you make a good point: writers, directors and actors are interested in their next job and success at the current one can influence the next one. Success, of course, is subjective: is it big ratings or critical acclaim? I think that The Americans will always be considered a success because of its well-deserved critical acclaim.

 

 

Yes, indeed. It seems to me the very best feature of this show has always been the show runners willingness to live with lower ratings but produce a high quality show.

Now that there are only two episodes left, I have been wondering just how I will be able to fill the void that will most certainly arise. I don't know of any way to fill the void the end of this show will create. Most all the people who post in this forum seem to me to be enjoyable posters. I can't remember ever reading and posting in any forum that I have enjoyed as much as this one. The show was great - to be sure. But most all the people who have participated in this forum have also been great.

I can't remember any Internet forum where there has been so little flaming and personal attacks as there has been in this forum. I think that is a tribute to most everyone here. If we could only meet in person, I would love to raise a glass to all of you and salute you all.

As far as the issue of ratings versus the quality of the show goes, I fully admit that one of the things that has always made this show great has been the show runners willingness to sacrifice some of the ratings to produce a high quality product.

But can anyone suggest how we will manage to fill the void when this show is over? Can you believe it will all be over in just 8 or 9 days (depending on how far you live from the Intl Dateline)?

Can anyone suggest how or where to start a new thread asking people to suggest any new shows they might enjoy as much as The Americans? Any forum in which we might participate and enjoy discussing as much as we have enjoyed this one?

Shit! It will be a real big disappointment when this show is over. I just wish I knew where I can go to get as much enjoyment as I have gotten from this show.

Edited May 21, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Cardie]

12 hours ago, lazylou said:

he would have been required to have auto insurance

Auto insurance would pay medical expenses if they survived and the value of the totaled car but it wouldn't leave anything to the kids. 

[Cardie]

5 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

Philip in a way has already died, and Elizabeth is ready to, so it's not that interesting if either of them actually do.

This. Although there's a tendency to want Philip to escape after Elizabeth dies, I see him on the path to sacrifice himself for her and the kids. I see her either in jail or back to the USSR but living in a hell of her own making that she is now painfully aware of.

[SunnyBeBe]

36 minutes ago, Cardie said:

This. Although there's a tendency to want Philip to escape after Elizabeth dies, I see him on the path to sacrifice himself for her and the kids. I see her either in jail or back to the USSR but living in a hell of her own making that she is now painfully aware of.

Right. It may be that the parent who survives has the most punishment in store. The one who dies, will escape prison, Russia, water boarding, I mean, disappointment from children, etc. 

[MisterBluxom]

32 minutes ago, Cardie said:

This. Although there's a tendency to want Philip to escape after Elizabeth dies, I see him on the path to sacrifice himself for her and the kids. I see her either in jail or back to the USSR but living in a hell of her own making that she is now painfully aware of.

I just flashed on one great possiblity for that unfinished story line about Phillip's son.

Wouldn't it be great if Phillip is able to escape the furor of the finale and makes it out to lead a new life with his son - possibly in some Eastern European country - but one that is not directly under the control of Russia? I don't even know if that is possible. But I get the feeling that Phillip is liked much better by the audience (than Elizabeth) and I know that I'd be very happy if life turned out that way for Phillip. I won't even begin to speculate on how the unfinished business with Agent Gaad could be resolved. I'm guessing the resolution of both of those unsolved mysteries would be too much to hope for.

But I sure would be interested to hear the answer to the following question:

If you had to guess, how would you think that Matthew Rhys and Keri Russell are feeling about the end of this show? Would you think they are really tired of playing these characters? Six years can become a real grind - especially if they hear so many negative opinions about all the murders etc. Do you think they want little more than to get a way for a lengthy holiday to some kind of warm island resort? Or do you think they love playing these characters and are very sad at the prospect of not doing this anymore?

[lazylou]

4 hours ago, Cardie said:

Auto insurance would pay medical expenses if they survived and the value of the totaled car but it wouldn't leave anything to the kids. 

Yes, true, he would have been the driver.  Life insurance then.

Edited May 22, 2018 by lazylou
Typo

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, MissBluxom said:

I won't even begin to speculate on how the unfinished business with Agent Gaad could be resolved.

I don't think it's unfinished. It only mattered for how it affected Arkady and Stan. He died by accident for something that wasn't related to characters we cared about--we already know more about it than most. It's possible it might turn out to somehow be important and come up or even just be mentioned, but I'm not waiting for any updates on it.

1 hour ago, MissBluxom said:

Six years can become a real grind - especially if they hear so many negative opinions about all the murders etc.

I don't think they're hearing negative opinions on murders. The show's been great for them.

[AllyB]

10 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

All four will wind up in Russia?

That's always a possibility for sure. But can you imagine how that would play out with Henry? I don't think Henry would be able to handle that. If I were Henry, I'm pretty certain that I couldn't handle it very well.

"We're leaving right now to go where? Why would we ever want to go to Russia? What would I do there? Play Hockey? Are you kidding me? Have you seen the monsters they have playing hockey there? They don't even get paid for doing endorsements in Russia. Please tell me you're just joking. Please?"

Henry's wishes would be immaterial. The Foley children were sent to Russia regardless of their wishes. They were stripped of their Canadian citizenship (they were born in Canada) and it's taken 8 years for a temporary restoration of their passports pending a Supreme Court judgement.

[lazylou]

9 hours ago, Bannon said:

E could always take up distilling moonshine as a hobby, and call her product "Apple Pie"! Then slip in an extra ingrediant for special customers like Claudia!*

 

*Apologies to those who aren't familiar with a certain other Margot Martindale project.....

Well, Elizabeth would  certainly be JUSTiFIED if she contrives to end Claudia! (Sorry.  Could not resist.)

[hellmouse]

I think the most tragic ending for Philip & Elizabeth is if they lose their family. Their children and their marriage is something real that they created together. They may escape to the USSR but I don't think their children will go with them. They waited too late. The kids are older and will say no. So Philip and Elizabeth have to leave them if they want to save themselves. That makes for a sad ending even if they are together. It is the "hell of their own making" that others have talked about; a punishment for all the families they themselves destroyed as part of their jobs. 

It's possible that one or both children will die. But somehow that feels like too much - like they could achieve the same heartbreak without a death. It's possible that Philip and/or Elizabeth end up in federal custody. Elizabeth could take her cyanide pill and Stan would watch her die and then he'd have to go tell Philip. That would be sad but it also feels kind of melodramatic, and it makes the ending all about Philip & Stan instead of the Jennings' marriage. 

I don't know what the most tragic ending for Stan is. It might simply be learning that Philip & Elizabeth were KGB. It might be that something he does leads to Oleg's death. It might be that Paige and Henry hate him his part in destroying their family. It's possible that somehow Stan will be discredited in the investigation - maybe he gets desperate to prove his hunch and ends up doing something wildly wrong. He may end up having to leave the FBI. (Renee will also quit and go work wherever he goes next because that's just how she rolls!) It's also possible that Stan will be proven right but he will not survive whatever happens. I could see Stan dying and Philip & Elizabeth escaping. That would feel bleak. 

[lazylou]

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't think it's unfinished. It only mattered for how it affected Arkady and Stan. He died by accident for something that wasn't related to characters we cared about--we already know more about it than most. It's possible it might turn out to somehow be important and come up or even just be mentioned, but I'm not waiting for any updates on it.

I don't think they're hearing negative opinions on murders. The show's been great for them.

Look at the awards for which they have been nominated, have won.  Plus, they met each other.  At least I assume that is how they came together.

[duVerre]

6 hours ago, lazylou said:

Look at the awards for which they have been nominated, have won.  Plus, they met each other.  At least I assume that is how they came together.

The two leads had actually met years before but nothing came of it. Obviously, they met again through the show and the relationship developed.

I think the show has been wonderful for both. Though Rhys had shown he had range, he had never had a part as emotionally rich as this one. As for Russel, who knew she had it in her to climb the heights? I didn't. This role is also an extreme counterbalance to Felicity. It got her out of the all-American-girl pigeon-hole by turning her wholesomeness on its head. In addition, great roles for gorgeous women don't come up all that often. (And, sad to say, she may have to wait a long time for another one. It's the nature of the business, especially--especially--for women.)

I'm sure they were exhausted after six years--and even more exhausted when you throw in the task of raising kids. And I'm sure that they were anxious to finish. But I bet that, in a few years' time, they'll look back, as we all do, at the good old days. 

An old friend of mine was in "Fiddler on The Roof" in NY and on tour. When she left, she was bored, wrung out, and said she thought she'd have a nervous breakdown if she had to hear a single note from Fiddler ever again. A decade later, she started to say that her Fiddler days were great--a regular gig (so rare that business), her connection to a legendary play, the source of many friendships, the best time of her life.

1 hour ago, duVerre said:

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by duVerre
trying to get rid of that d__n box.

[BingeyKohan]

I need an exfiltration from my obsession with how it all ends.

New theory to pass the next 36 hours or so:

Through an interaction with Stan, Oleg realizes Stan is the only one at the FBI who seriously suspects the Jennings. He gets word of this to them. P and E jointly realize that to protect their children they have to kill Stan. Very reluctantly, P does it, the most Elizabeth-like thing he's ever done. They get away but are now karmic equals. They also know that having their neighbor die in the middle of this investigation will still point fingers their way (and still compromise their children), so P says: hey remember when I thought Renee was so suspicious? She's probably fine but there's enough weirdness there where we could frame her as KGB. So not only do they kill Stan but destroy his legacy, by making it seem like he was essentially another Martha. The only minor (and phony) victory the FBI achieves is to dodge the bullet of hiring Renee, which they were about to do. Series ends with Dennis, who has inherited Stan's suspicion, watching Henry, who stayed behind.

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, BingeyKohan said:

I need an exfiltration from my obsession with how it all ends.

New theory to pass the next 36 hours or so:

Through an interaction with Stan, Oleg realizes Stan is the only one at the FBI who seriously suspects the Jennings. He gets word of this to them. P and E jointly realize that to protect their children they have to kill Stan. Very reluctantly, P does it, the most Elizabeth-like thing he's ever done. They get away but are now karmic equals. They also know that having their neighbor die in the middle of this investigation will still point fingers their way (and still compromise their children), so P says: hey remember when I thought Renee was so suspicious? She's probably fine but there's enough weirdness there where we could frame her as KGB. So not only do they kill Stan but destroy his legacy, by making it seem like he was essentially another Martha. The only minor (and phony) victory the FBI achieves is to dodge the bullet of hiring Renee, which they were about to do. Series ends with Dennis, who has inherited Stan's suspicion, watching Henry, who stayed behind.

Very creative.  I like it, but, I wonder if P would really be able to outright murder Stan.  I get how he might shoot Stan, if Stan was aiming a gun at E or Paige, but, to plan his murder........I don't know about that.  I'm even wondering if E could do it that way.  Claudia would have no qualms however.  But, now, I'm no so sure she would be inclined to do it, though, she has issues with E, she doesn't want her captured.  But, Claudia would most likely murder P and E, instead of bothering with Stan.  

And with your scenario, what happens to Renee? Does she just stay silent or contend that P and E are liars?

I do think that it would be good if Oleg tips off P that Stan is on to him, but, would Stan reveal that to Oleg?  Hmmmm....

[BingeyKohan]

12 hours ago, hellmouse said:

I think the most tragic ending for Philip & Elizabeth is if they lose their family. Their children and their marriage is something real that they created together. They may escape to the USSR but I don't think their children will go with them. They waited too late. The kids are older and will say no. So Philip and Elizabeth have to leave them if they want to save themselves. That makes for a sad ending even if they are together. It is the "hell of their own making" that others have talked about; a punishment for all the families they themselves destroyed as part of their jobs. 

Totally agree. I don't think we'll get much of a time jump in the finale but in a way we've had theoretical time jumps all along - you could always read Gabriel and Claudia as possible future versions of Philip and Elizabeth. (Notably, Claudia went back to the Soviet Union but came back complaining of estrangement from her daughter.) I also think last season's mission to kill the older woman who'd been a Nazi sympathizer was a possible future Elizabeth: Maybe Elizabeth gets away, for now, settles into a quiet life, maybe she's a Sunday painter, then someday she comes home and someone's waiting for her in her dining room. And then we saw the Jennings in old-age drag on the plane back from Chicago - older couple, no kids.

[BingeyKohan]

9 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

And with your scenario, what happens to Renee? Does she just stay silent or contend that P and E are liars?

Yeah the Renee part is probably a little bananas but in my scenario she protests her innocence (which would be accurate) but they don't believe her. P and E would have constructed her a quick KGB paper trail. Unless Stan has confided in her (which I doubt) she'd have no reason to point a finger at P&E.

I think P killing Stan would be like E burning the painting, to the nth degree. There'd be an element of, can't do it/but I have to/can't do it/but I have to...and the hardest hitting tragedy of the finale is, he does.

Edited May 22, 2018 by BingeyKohan

[SunnyBeBe]

23 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

Yeah the Renee part is probably a little bananas but in my scenario she protests her innocence (which would be accurate) but they don't believe her. P and E would have constructed her a quick KGB paper trail. Unless Stan has confided in her (which I doubt) she'd have no reason to point a finger at P&E.

I think P killing Stan would be like E burning the painting, to the nth degree. There'd be an element of, can't do it/but I have to/can't do it/but I have to...and the hardest hitting tragedy of the finale is, he does.

 

Yeah, that would be brutal.  It would really turn a lot of people against P though.  I don't think Stan has as many fans, but, for him to just get murdered that way......IDK.  I would imagine if he's killed, it would be more in a shootout scenario.

  E has gotten away a few times when things were close, but, would she be that lucky again? She  just escaped getting shot by the military guy she was trying to get the sensors from.  Then, in the Harvest mission, she came quite close to getting hit.  Is three times the charm? lol (Plus, the time she already did get shot.)  She may have run out of luck in not getting shot.  And, if it were Stan who does it......I hope they avoid a cheesy scene where Stan shoots, she hits the ground and he removes her fake wig to discover that it is indeed his best friend's wife!  I just think that's so over the top, but, I wonder if they will go there.   

Edited May 22, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Ellaria]

Here is a question that has been bouncing around in my head...

Henry is back at school (NH, I think). The rest of our characters are currently in Wash DC and/or its suburbs. For him to play a role in the final two hours, "they" would need a reason to bring him back home. I'm trying to envision a logical scenario - not some convoluted mess of plotting - that would draw him back. Alternatively, someone could go to his boarding school to deliver bad news (such as the death of one of his parents).

I don't think that The Americans will sign off without giving us - at the very least - another scene with Henry in the present (as opposed to an epilogue done months or years into the future) . What is the best way to do this?