Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[GrailKing]

http://watchersonthewall.com/young-actress-cast-big-season-8-episode/#more-161179

 

http://watchersonthewall.com/james-cosmo-con-of-thrones/

[anamika]

Joe Dempsie gave an interview:

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"I've done well out of it this year, for sure," he said, before adding that fans shouldn't assume his character survives till the end.

"As with all these things, we never shoot in chronological order – so you might have people coming in at the beginning and at the end, but it doesn't necessarily mean they make it all the way through!

"For me personally, the only real hope I had for the character was just that he would be there when the reckoning came. You got the sense – even back in season 3 – that this was a show that was building towards some incredible climax, so you just wanted to be there when it all happened.

"Not even necessarily just from a character point-of-view, [but] from a personal point of view – to be stood there on the set when they're making that ending... that end game. So yeah, I'm very happy to be involved and be on set for season 8."

So Gendry is there for the ending?

But yeah, Joe Dempsie has been spotted quite a bit in Belfast.

Edited April 4, 2018 by anamika

[GrailKing]

Damn, busy night at WOTW :http://watchersonthewall.com/siege-engines-deployed-magheramorne-set-game-thrones-season-8-filming/#more-161217

[SimoneS]

11 hours ago, anamika said:

So Gendry is there for the ending?

But yeah, Joe Dempsie has been spotted quite a bit in Belfast.

 

You never know if you are reading too much into the symbolism, but the constant presence of the Baratheon crest in the show's opening and Gendry's return convinced me that he would survive the story; perhaps re-establishing House Baratheon and marrying one of the Stark women.

Edited April 4, 2018 by SimoneS

[GraceK]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

You never know if you are reading too much into the symbolism, but the constant presence of the Baratheon crest in the show's opening and Gendry's return convinced me that he would survive the story; perhaps re-establishing House Baratheon and marrying one of the Stark women.

That’s a good point about the Baratheon crest 

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

You never know if you are reading too much into the symbolism, but the constant presence of the Baratheon crest in the show's opening and Gendry's return convinced me that he would survive the story; perhaps re-establishing House Baratheon and marrying one of the Stark women.

 

My thinking is still the same Magic dies, main people who are tied to magic( religion survives that small divide ) die, problem is, which are Bran, Jon and Danny?

I think Sansa stays in Winterfell (though she could end somewhere else ), Arya may hap with Gendry or somewhere else, she has some magic tied to her, Tyrion has no magic so he may live, Mel dies, Dondarrian dies, Missandi lives, Sam is science he lives, Dragons all gone ; as I write this it's getting tougher . : )

Edited April 4, 2018 by GrailKing

[SimoneS]

39 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

My thinking is still the same Magic dies, main people who are tied to magic( religion survives that small divide ) die, problem is, which are Bran, Jon and Danny?

I think Sansa stays in Winterfell (though she could end somewhere else ), Arya may hap with Gendry or somewhere else, she has some magic tied to her, Tyrion has no magic so he may live, Mel dies, Dondarrian dies, Missandi lives, Sam is science he lives, Dragons all gone ; as I write this it's getting tougher . : )

 

I don't see how Magic dies. This isn't Lord of the Rings set in Middle Earth where humans are the majority and all the magical beings (and those touched by magic) can leave for the Undying Lands. In the GoT world, outside of the main characters there are probably thousands of people with differing levels of magic across all the lands. They are not all going to drop dead or hop on a boat to somewhere else and there is nothing to stop them from migrating to a peaceful prosperous Westeros. Magic will continue whether the dragons, main Targaryans or Starks live or die. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

My thinking is still the same Magic dies, main people who are tied to magic( religion survives that small divide ) die, problem is, which are Bran, Jon and Danny?

I think Sansa stays in Winterfell (though she could end somewhere else ), Arya may hap with Gendry or somewhere else, she has some magic tied to her, Tyrion has no magic so he may live, Mel dies, Dondarrian dies, Missandi lives, Sam is science he lives, Dragons all gone ; as I write this it's getting tougher . : )

 

The problem with the "magic dies, non-magic lives" theory--apart from the outline, where at least two magical characters (Bran and Dany) were implied to survive--is that there's no neat divide between magical and non-magical. Targ blood, for example, is undeniably magical. In ASOIAF, there are several characters descended from Targs running around (Brown Ben Plumm, the Martells, the Baratheons, etc.). Even Gendry has a bit of Targ blood. Does that make anyone with a drop of Targ blood magical and therefore doomed?

Also, if the death cutoff criterion is "magical ability," that would mean that all the Stark siblings, who were all born with warg abilities according to GRRM, are doomed, even Sansa (who's thought of by many as "non-magical'). I doubt GRRM would go that far.

 

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Gendry's return convinced me that he would survive the story; perhaps re-establishing House Baratheon and marrying one of the Stark women

I doubt Gendry/Arya will be a thing. GRRM said that they have separate futures, and as coy as GRRM gets, he's not above shooting down theories. (GRRM was recently asked whether Jorah would ever exit the friendzone, and his answer was a blunt no, heh.)

Beyond that, I've been reading posts on other boards, and what a few have hit upon is that in the Targ histories, the non-Targ-looking kids never wind up continuing the main family line (Rhaenyra's eldest three sons, Baelor Breakspear, Valarr Targaryen, Duncan Targaryen, Daeron Targaryen, etc.). 

GRRM has put quite a bit of emphasis on the importance of the "Stark look": long face, dark brown hair (often illustrated in official art as black), grey eyes. The Stark look is apparently so distinctive that Craster in ACOK instantly recognizes that Jon has Stark blood: he "has the look of a Stark." If he does with the Starks what he did with the Targs, it seems likely that the one to carry on the Stark line will possess the "Stark look." In the books, that rules out everyone but Jon and Arya, and Jon's a Targ who will father little Targs, so...

So what's the problem? Why couldn't Arya marry Gendry? After all, Gendry's a bastard, so the kids would have the Stark name. However, as we've been told so many times in the ASOIAF books, "the [Baratheon] seed is strong." Any kids Gendry has, with Arya or anyone else for that matter, will have black hair and blue eyes. The "Stark look" would effectively come to an end. (Not in the real world, of course, but Westeros has its own weird genetics.) I don't think that's what GRRM plans.

Arya marrying some random guy and popping out a bunch of Stark-featured kids to continue the line seems like a pretty grim fate for her, but maybe she falls in love as Lyanna once did and decides to marry. Or maybe she just has a bastard and names him/her Stark.

I've seen speculation that because Book Sandor has dark hair and grey eyes, Sansa will marry him and produce Stark-looking kids. The main problem with that theory is that Sandor lacks the long face which seems to be an important part of the "Stark look." Sansa could still marry and have kids with Sandor, but they wouldn't have the "Stark look."

Edited April 4, 2018 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

35 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

So what's the problem? Why couldn't Arya marry Gendry? After all, Gendry's a bastard, so the kids would have the Stark name.

Being illegitimate is not a permanent state. If Gendry survives the war, I anticipate that Jon and Dany will legitimize him and grant him the title of "Lord Baratheon" as well as Storm's End and the other Baratheon lands. He will be wealthy and influential in his own right, I don't see him wanting to be Arya or any other woman's consort. 

[Sunshinegal]

I don't see how having the Stark look is that important to the North.  They were willing to follow Robb and he doesn't have the Stark look.  And Sansa is a Stark and has the Stark genes.  She can still pop out long faced dark haired children especially if she marries a Northerner.  Sansa and Arya both have the same genes since both are the daughters of Ned and Cat.  Arya depending on who she marries can pop out auburn haired blue eyed children.

[glowbug]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

So what's the problem? Why couldn't Arya marry Gendry? After all, Gendry's a bastard, so the kids would have the Stark name. However, as we've been told so many times in the ASOIAF books, "the [Baratheon] seed is strong." Any kids Gendry has, with Arya or anyone else for that matter, will have black hair and blue eyes. The "Stark look" would effectively come to an end. (Not in the real world, of course, but Westeros has its own weird genetics.) I don't think that's what GRRM plans.

For the record, I don't think Arya and Gendry will end up together. Had I only read the books I wouldn't have thought much of the pairing at all. Show Arya and Gendry have tons of chemistry (I think the two actors get along well in real life) and I think the show played up the relationship more than in the books. I also think Gendry's fate in the show may be Edric Storm's fate since the two characters appear to have been combined into one and I think the chances of Edric Storm and Arya ending up together are almost zero. That said, in the books "the seed is strong" refers only to the times when Baratheon and Lannisters procreate. In the show for some reason the changed it to all Baratheon children having dark hair.

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I don't see how Magic dies. This isn't Lord of the Rings set in Middle Earth where humans are the majority and all the magical beings (and those touched by magic) can leave for the Undying Lands. In the GoT world, outside of the main characters there are probably thousands of people with differing levels of magic across all the lands. They are not all going to drop dead or hop on a boat to somewhere else and there is nothing to stop them from migrating to a peaceful prosperous Westeros. Magic will continue whether the dragons, main Targaryans or Starks live or die. 

Well I'm basing it on Leaf's words in the book, Bran if he's old religion could just ascend to a higher plain ( plane ) Dragons got to die, maybe just in books.

[Eyes High]

17 minutes ago, glowbug said:

For the record, I don't think Arya and Gendry will end up together. Had I only read the books I wouldn't have thought much of the pairing at all. Show Arya and Gendry have tons of chemistry (I think the two actors get along well in real life) and I think the show played up the relationship more than in the books. I also think Gendry's fate in the show may be Edric Storm's fate since the two characters appear to have been combined into one and I think the chances of Edric Storm and Arya ending up together are almost zero.

I doubt it's Book Gendry's destiny to end up Lord Baratheon, but it seems likely that TV Gendry will end up as Lord Baratheon. There's even an aside in the 7x05 script outline which possibly hints at this (I can't recall the exact wording).

Nymeria, the queen for whom Arya named her direwolf, wound up marrying three times, as did Elaena Targaryen (a character who sounds an awful lot like Arya in terms of appearance and temperament), so maybe Arya will have multiple spouses as well.

 

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That said, in the books "the seed is strong" refers only to the times when Baratheon and Lannisters procreate. In the show for some reason the changed it to all Baratheon children having dark hair.

Right, but (bookwise) all of Robert's bastards that we know about have black hair and blue eyes, as well as Shireen. The "seed is strong" specifically refers to Baratheon/Lannister offspring, yes, but it seems to apply generally otherwise as well.

[YaddaYadda]

58 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I doubt it's Book Gendry's destiny to end up Lord Baratheon, but it seems likely that TV Gendry will end up as Lord Baratheon

They removed Edric from the story. So Gendry becoming the Lord Baratheon would make sense on the show. 

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, Sunshinegal said:

I don't see how having the Stark look is that important to the North.  They were willing to follow Robb and he doesn't have the Stark look. 

Important to the North, no, but important to GRRM? Likely. 

 

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And Sansa is a Stark and has the Stark genes.

And? All those non-Targ-looking Targs GRRM killed off so that the silver-haired Targs could continue the line had Targ genes. 

 

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[Sansa] can still pop out long faced dark haired children especially if she marries a Northerner.  

Applying real world genetics, sure, but GRRM plays fast and loose with genetics in Westeros and places a lot of emphasis on the Stark look, and he has already gone some way towards ensuring that the Tully-looking Starks will not continue the line. Robb? Dead without issue. Bran? Unable to have children. Rickon? Dead without issue (in the show, meaning he'll likely die in the books as well).

That leaves Sansa and Arya, and if GRRM does with Sansa what he did with the non-Targ-looking Targs and (so far) with the Tully-looking Starks, Sansa will die without issue as well.

 

3 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

They removed Edric from the story. So Gendry becoming the Lord Baratheon would make sense on the show. 

Yes, exactly.

[anamika]

Show Gendry is more likely a combination of Edric Storm and Gendry from the books. if Gendry and Arya do get together on the show, it will be pure fanservice. Like mentioned above, GRRM has stated that the characters have separate futures in the books. I think they need a character that continues the Baratheon line - so Gendry will get legitimized and be in charge of Storm's end as a good ally to Jon/Dany/Arya etc.

3 hours ago, Sunshinegal said:

I don't see how having the Stark look is that important to the North.

It's important because GRRM thinks it's important. Each house is headed by a person having the distinct look of that house. The North has been ruled for ages by long, stern faced and grey eyed Starks.

Robb is dead, Rickon is most likely dead, Bran most likely cannot have children and Sansa conveniently has an albatross around her neck in the form of a marriage to  a Lannister.

Winterfell is the most important location in the books and probably the first ending decision he made (since, in GRRM’s own words, it “began with the Starks”.) If GRRM is grooming Sansa to end up in charge of it, she would be a more important character that even Jon, Arya, Bran and Dany. 

Edit: Just noticed that I basically repeated what @Eyes High mentions above :)

More news about Gendry:

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“I assumed I was,” he says, with a smile. “But also, there was a scene towards the end of season seven, when Jon and Daenerys are travelling back on the ship. He’s sort of unconscious, someone passes him a bowl of soup and that person was me. The scene got cut but in my mind I was on the boat back. Maybe they were keeping their options open in case they had to do away with me but, I think, in my heart of hearts all I ever really wanted was to be around for the endgame. Just to be there when the reckoning happens.”

Dempsie admits there was a “subdued, bittersweet atmosphere” to the first collective script read but, with filming at around the midway point, he says “brutal” night shoots have helped to keep sentimentality at bay.

“At this point, when it comes to an end, everyone will be fucking relieved rather than sad,” he chuckles. Dempsie also acknowledges that the compressing of the narrative has, as per the critics of the most recent series, led to some muddled plotting (“In terms of the timeline, let’s just forget it”) but hints that the monumental scenes to come will ultimately be worth any bumps along the way. 

“At various points we’ve been stood there on these amazing sets, turned to each other and gone, ‘TV history man’,” he says. “And you know, it’s not hyperbole.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/stayingin/tvfilm/joe-dempsie-on-game-of-thrones-series-8-and-playing-a-spy-in-deep-state-a3806006.html

Edited April 4, 2018 by anamika

[GrailKing]

[Stella]

ASOIAF and  GOT

AKA a twisted ode to nuclear weapons and eugenics.

[bubble sparkly]

Do you think that Arya’s endgame in the books could be to marry / have children (and be in charge of a specific castle whether Winterfell or another) with Person X, but the show will change her paramour to Gendry? Either because Person X was already cut out by D&D before they knew his future importance to Arya, or because they like JD and Gendry/Arya have somewhat of a shipping base already after s2/3 so they figured the best solution was to substitute him? Or perhaps Arya’s Guy was going to be someone random so D&D didn't care about substituting Gendry?

If Arya was going to end S8 with a guy on her arm, I can’t think of anyone other than Gendry or Pod who is age appropriate (and can still father kids).

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Show Gendry is more likely a combination of Edric Storm and Gendry from the books. if Gendry and Arya do get together on the show, it will be pure fanservice. Like mentioned above, GRRM has stated that the characters have separate futures in the books. I think they need a character that continues the Baratheon line - so Gendry will get legitimized and be in charge of Storm's end as a good ally to Jon/Dany/Arya etc.

I agree. Even if romantic Gendry/Arya is off the menu, judging by Joe Dempsie's comment about brutal night shoots, it looks like we'll get some good Arya/Gendry scenes in S8 at the very least. (Maisie has also been doing lots of night shoots.)

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It's important because GRRM thinks it's important. Each house is headed by a person having the distinct look of that house. The North has been ruled for ages by long, stern faced and grey eyed Starks.

Exactly. 

25 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

Do you think that Arya’s endgame in the books could be to marry / have children (and be in charge of a specific castle whether Winterfell or another) with Person X, but the show will change her paramour to Gendry?

It's possible, but I don't think so. I think the writers would see swapping in Gendry for whomever Arya ends up with as doing too much violence to the endgame, given how important a character Arya is. For characters like Bronn and Pod, they can play fast and loose with their endgames, but I don't think they have that kind of latitude with characters of Arya's importance in the story.

The show could also imply that Arya gets married without ever revealing the name of her husband, if it's a book character who has never been introduced in the show.

[nikma]

For me, Arya was always asexual in a way, so to see her in a romance would be really strange, but it could also work. I am not against Gendry and Arya's relationship. I was against it in S3, when she was just a child and he was a grown up man, but now that  Maisie Williams is 20 years old, I could see that work. 

[Sunshinegal]

Personally I think that it would be more interesting if Sansa who looks like a Tully rules the North over her Stark looking sister and cousin.  And just because in the past the North was ruled by long faced dark haired Starks (and Westeros was ruled by light haired Targs) doesn't mean that it will continue in the future.   After wars sometimes things can change.  Empires can rise and fall and leaders can change.  it has already started to happen on the show with the demise of the Tyrells and the Martells. 

In universe doing Aegon's conquest, leadership in many of the kingdoms DID change.  The Gardeners were defeated and the Tyrells took over.  The Greyjoys became rulers of the Iron Islands, the Tullys became rulers of the Riverlands, and the Baratheons became the rulers of the Stormlands. 

[Eyes High]

52 minutes ago, Sunshinegal said:

Personally I think that it would be more interesting if Sansa who looks like a Tully rules the North over her Stark looking sister and cousin. 

The question isn't what's more interesting, the question is what GRRM is more likely to do, and his repeated emphasis on the iconic, enduring, instantly recognizable "Stark look," his treatment of the non-Targ-looking Targs, and his treatment of the Tully-looking Starks suggests that brown-haired, long-faced, grey-eyed Arya will continue the Stark line (and rule the North), not Sansa, who bears the equally distinctive features (auburn hair/blue eyes) of the Tullys. Much has been made by GRRM of the Starks enduring, which is likely tied to the Stark look enduring as well. 

Do you think it's a coincidence that GRRM has been methodically ensuring that the Tully-looking Starks won't have kids, just as he methodically ousted all non-Targ-looking Targs from the Targ  succession? Sansa will be pushed out just as Robb and Bran were and as Rickon (likely) will be (if the show is anything to go off). That leaves Jon, who's a legit Targ (again, if the show is any indication) and Arya.

The 1993 outline also strongly suggests that Sansa is doomed, and that GRRM is sticking to the broad strokes whatever ending he had in mind in 1993, which means that Sansa cannot end up with Winterfell even if she lives, so there's that as well. I don't think it's a coincidence either that the three "safe" Starks GRRM identified in that outline are Bran (Tully looks, can't have kids), Jon and Arya (Stark looks). 

As for how Sansa will be pushed out, she doesn't have to die young to enable this, but it seems likely that she will just as Robb and TV Rickon have. I doubt with the new rapprochement between TV Sansa and Arya that TV Arya would attempt to usurp Sansa's Lady of Winterfell gig or that Sansa would willingly give it up to trot off to the Vale or Highgarden or wherever, but if Sansa dies and Bran sticks to his "I can't be lord of anything" rhetoric, well, Arya won't have any choice, will she?

I think the S7 costuming may also be a hint. Sansa wears all of her influences on her sleeve--Littlefinger, the Boltons, etc.--and in the case of Cersei, her hair. Sansa's S7 gowns are sort of a mishmash of things she has worn in previous seasons, reflecting all her non-Stark influences. Arya, on the other hand, just dresses up like a female Ned, and her costumes look a lot like Lyanna Mormont's S7 costume, a Northern lady who's the head of house.

 

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For me, Arya was always asexual in a way, so to see her in a romance would be really strange, but it could also work.

Well, she's apparently Lyanna 2.0, and romance figured pretty prominently in Lyanna's life, so why not Arya's? Hopefully it will work out better for Arya than it did for Lyanna.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Eyes High

[Happy Harpy]

I had never heard about the "separate futures" thing, so I made a (rapid) search and here's what I found (info in the OP).

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/134283-grrm-on-gendry-and-arya-allegedly/

Basically, the quote seems to comes from the friend of a fanfiction writer who allegedly asked GRRM back in 2012.  I skimmed through the posts and no one brought another source or a direct quote from GRRM to make their point, which I find weird for this site. Hence my question: Is there one?

I don't know if Arya/Gendry will happen, but I'm of the same mind re: Sansa's romantic future.

First of all, the Stark sisters aren't broodmares. Jon has Stark blood, he's going to have at least a child with Dany if I believe the anvils thrown in S7 and since the Targ looks are pretty recessive (reason for their endogamy, right?) there are good chances that Boatbaby will be all wolf cub. There's a Jeyne Poole gene pool shared by all the Stark descendants, and it will live on with them all, not only the women. Moreover, Arya and Sansa both have Stark and Tully blood, so if they have kids nothing ensures that Arya's won't be blue-eyed gingers whereas Sansa's are long-faced brunettes. The Stark name? Anyone with Stark blood can take it.

Second, I still have that same petty so many storylines/so little time problem I already mentioned when discussing Sansa's potential partners. If Arya gets a love interest (was Maisie trolling when she said she hoped Arya would get a "nice hunk"?) I don't think they materially have the time to develop a romantic relationship over the last six episodes, starting from scratch. It will have to be someone she knows and had the most personal interactions with; they won't be able to devote as much time to it as they did to Jon/Dany and it was already considered "rushed". It leaves Gendry and The Hound as most probable (she didn't confide in Hot Pie, never closely interacted with Theon or Pod, and she left the FM and Jaqen). Imo, the latter is more of a father figure and it leaves Gendry as the most likely, but who knows?

About Gendry, if he was kept and Edric dropped -in passing, while GRRM was still writing for the show- it means that Gendry is the character that matters. Just like they  kept jAegon and dropped fAegon.

Arya is one of the main five. I highly doubt that the fact she has a partner, and the identity of her partner, will differ between book and show.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[bubble sparkly]

29 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

she didn't confide in Hot Pie

But Hot Pie made her direwolf bread.  The good ship HotArya all the way lol!!!  She can take on the traditional male roles of fighting and being in charge and he can take on the traditional female roles of cooking and raising the children.  Match made in heaven!

29 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

she left the FM and Jaqen). Imo, the latter is more of a father figure

Jaqen is so sexy, that voice *swoon*.  If Arya decided to run back to Braavos and get hot for teacher I would fully support that decision.  Plus, think of how talented their murder-babies would be.

Edited April 5, 2018 by bubble sparkly

[Eyes High]

7 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

I had never heard about the "separate futures" thing, so I made a (rapid) search and here's what I found (info in the OP).

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/134283-grrm-on-gendry-and-arya-allegedly/Basically, the quote seems to comes from the friend of a fanfiction writer who allegedly asked GRRM back in 2012.  I skimmed through the posts and no one brought another source or a direct quote from GRRM to make their point, which I find weird for this site.

 

That's the source. If you go back to the source, the fanfic writer in question is a hardcore Gendry/Arya shipper, which lends credence to their claim. (They wrote about how upset they were by GRRM's answer.) Now, I guess you could argue that the friend lied to the fanfic writer or misrepresented GRRM's answer for whatever reason, but we take the other SSMs at face value, so...

 

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First of all, the Stark sisters aren't broodmares. Jon has Stark blood, he's going to have at least a child with Dany if I believe the anvils thrown in S7 and since the Targ looks are pretty recessive (reason for their endogamy, right?) there are good chances that Boatbaby will be all wolf cub.

Well, no. GRRM doesn't play by real world genetics laws. Aegon V and his dark-haired, dark-eyed wife, Betha Blackwood, had several kids, but only one of them had dark hair. Daeron II and Mariah Martell had one dark-haired son and at least two silver-haired sons. Rhaegar and Elia Martell had a Targ-looking kid and a non-Targ-looking kid. And so on. And those were Targ/non-Targ pairings: Jon is a Targ so he has plenty of Targ genes to contribute to the mix.

There is a fan theory on Westeros.org that the firstborn child of any Targ/non-Targ pair will take after the non-Targ parent: Duncan Targaryen (dark-haired like Betha), Baelor Breakspear (took after his Dornish mom), Rhaegar's daughter Rhaenys Targaryen (took after her Dornish mom), etc. It remains a theory for now. It wouldn't apply to any of Jon and Dany's offspring, anyway, since Jon is of course a Targ.

For the TV show, I'm guessing that if we do see Jon and Dany's firstborn, that baby will have dark hair, regardless of the ASOIAF equivalent child's looks. It's probably a lot easier to find a dark-haired infant to play Jon and Dany's kid than to find one with platinum blonde hair. The casting folks have to pick their battles, which is why Baby Jon in 6x10 had light brown hair instead of Kit's black hair.

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There's a Jeyne Poole gene pool shared by all the Stark descendants, and it will live on with them all, not only the women. Moreover, Arya and Sansa both have Stark and Tully blood, so if they have kids nothing ensures that Arya's won't be blue-eyed gingers whereas Sansa's are long-faced brunettes.

In the Targ case, that didn't stop GRRM from ensuring that no non-Targ-looking Targs would continue the Targ line. The real world genetics (which don't apply in GRRM's world) you invoke to argue that there's nothing stopping Sansa from having Stark-looking kids are beside the point. What matters is the symbolic importance of the Stark line being preserved by someone with Stark looks, which Sansa lacks. If continuing Stark line is left to someone who not only lacks the Stark look but has the distinctive facial features of a southern house (and who managed to get the living embodiment of her Stark identity--her direwolf--killed, to boot), that would go against everything GRRM has been saying about the iconic Stark look and its importance to the Stark heritage, and is at odds with his treatment of the Targs in the histories, where no Targs lacking the iconic Targ look have been allowed to continue the line. 

Again, it's not a coincidence that GRRM has been ruthlessly going about ensuring that no Tully-looking Starks can continue the family line. All that's left is Rickon and Sansa. Rickon is already dead in the show, so the only Tully-looking Stark left to be taken out of the equation is Sansa, probably through death. 

 

Quote

It will have to be someone she knows and had the most personal interactions with; they won't be able to devote as much time to it as they did to Jon/Dany and it was already considered "rushed". It leaves Gendry and The Hound as most probable (she didn't confide in Hot Pie, never closely interacted with Theon or Pod, and she left the FM and Jaqen). Imo, the latter is more of a father figure and it leaves Gendry as the most likely, but who knows?

They don't have to establish a romantic relationship in six episodes. All they have to do is imply that Arya gets married or will get married, and there are several ways to do that without trying to scare up a relationship within six episodes with some new guy (which I agree would be a tall order).

Edited April 5, 2018 by Eyes High

[OhOkayWhat]

I think it's interesting to discuss theories based on the "Look" of each house, but in my opinion, the personality traits of each character surpasses by a great margin the "Look" importance to imagine any endgame.

And in the case of Arya, right now, I don't see in the show almost anything that makes me to imagine her as the Lady of Winterfell, the leader of the North or even she getting married with someone (maybe several years in the future, but not right now).

Also I don't see Arya/Gendry (or Arya/ any other GoT-character, by the way) as endgame within the show-narrative .

Edited April 5, 2018 by OhOkayWhat

[Happy Harpy]

5 hours ago, Eyes High said:

That's the source. If you go back to the source, the fanfic writer in question is a hardcore Gendry/Arya shipper, which lends credence to their claim. (They wrote about how upset they were by GRRM's answer.) Now, I guess you could argue that the friend lied to the fanfic writer or misrepresented GRRM's answer for whatever reason, but we take the other SSMs at face value, so...

I don't take anything at face value. I said it in previous posts, as far as the leaks are concerned I believe what's on pictures (tbh and although I don't reject them like I do others, I even take the non visually supported spoilers that came with the pictures with a grain of salt, too) or what comes from the horse's mouth. It's the same here.

A couple of months ago, someone made out an entire interview by GRRM and even tried to doctor a mail to make it look as if he endorsed it; so the lengths people go for attention are boundless. So maybe it's the truth, but a Tumblr-ina's friend isn't a reliable source to me. Less after 6 years without confirmation.

You're right, of course, GRRM can pull a Louisa May or there can be flash-forwards with characters married to Lord This or Princess That or with another character they had one conversation with. But I'm speculating on the basis that it will make sense and come together naturally, just like R+L=J. At least for the OG five.

Sansa's arc was very much imo about learning to accept she's a Stark and part of a pack, not a self-serving lone wolf. It would transcend the symbolic of mere looks. Personally, I think she's the most probable to die and don't see her getting married again -except maybe with Tyrion and only in name for a loooong time. I also tend to think that there will be an inversion, and Arya will marry for love (not to continue the line) like in Sansa's childhood dreams. Yet, since Ned and Catelyn had one 100% Northerner child, Arya, it's a possibility even with GRRM use of genetics that Sansa has a child with Northern traits while keeping the Stark name*.

Of course, Jon could choose to take the name Stark, or at least one of his children could take it, too. Continuing a line doesn't befall only on women.

*Third shocker: Tyrion takes the name Stark. Tywin dies a second time and I LOL for eternity.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Happy Harpy
Because 6 isn't 8.

[GrailKing]

[Eyes High]

Some minor S8 info from /BoatsexBaby at /Freefolk (I added numbers for ease of reading, but it's otherwise word for word):

Quote

 

1. Jonathan Freeman is the DoP [Director of Photography] for the final episode.

2. David Franco is the DoP working with Nutter. Franco is the one in the green puffer jacket besides Nutter in this pic in Dubrovnik. He was scouting locations in Iceland back in September.

3. The Iceland filming with Kit/Emilia might have been for Nutter's episodes (1, 2, and/or 4).

4. They are currently casting a bunch of female extras in Northern Ireland for filming in May and likely June. Most likely for KL sets filming.

5. The Spain filming is for Episode 5 and 6.

 

The last two (which I bolded) caught my eye. A bunch of female extras? Smallfolk fleeing chaos and destruction in the KL sets, as /BoatsexBaby thinks? 

I hope we get some good info from the fans in Seville as to who shows up for filming in Spain. It won't indicate who survives the season, but at least who survives the big battle(s) that will be taking place in the first four episodes.

/Gotlikelocation posted a series of photos at /Freefolk from the March 26 night shoot at Magheramorne. Not much of interest—looks like a bunch of Team Jon/Dany soldiers—but one photo shows a man carrying a sword and hauling something on the ground. Judging by his height relative to the others, maybe Jaime is pulling Bran’s sled?

A video was posted from tonight’s Magheramorne shoot showing a line of people advancing as if in formation. Some are wearing long cloaks, others aren’t. They seem to be moving a little fast for a wight March.

Even though I generally have no complaints with the VFX work on this show, I’m getting a little apprehensive at all the greenscreen they seem to need if the shooting at Magheramorne is any indication. Overly CGIed action sequences with CGI armies are no fun. On the other hand, the Winterfell battle, which seemed to involve lots of real fire and allegedly had hundreds of extras participating, seems like it will bring the authentic action. 

...I kind of miss the days where if you wanted to show a big battle with thousands of combatants, you’d have to get thousands of extras. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Eyes High

[anamika]

42 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

/Gotlikelocation posted a series of photos at /Freefolk from the March 26 night shoot at Magheramorne. Not much of interest—looks like a bunch of Team Jon/Dany soldiers—but one photo shows a man carrying a sword and hauling something on the ground. Judging by his height relative to the others, maybe Jaime is pulling Bran’s sled?

 

Carrying a sword and hauling something with one hand?

Considering there were some spoilers about Theon and Bran hanging out, it could be Theon dragging Bran if that is indeed Bran.

I do think Theon's and Bran's stories will intersect in the books. Theon is with Stannis and I am sure will be there for the resolution of the Bolton arc in the North. Bran has been talking to him through the weirwoods.

42 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

...I kind of miss the days where if you wanted to show a big battle with thousands of combatants, you’d have to get thousands of extras. 

 

Maybe they don't want spoilers to leak from extras. We got tidbits from both Hardhome and BOTB from the extras.

Edited April 6, 2018 by anamika

[Eyes High]

5 minutes ago, anamika said:

Carrying a sword and hauling something with one hand?

Maybe they don't want spoilers to leak from extras. We got tidbits from both Hardhome and BOTB from the extras.

Right, forgot about Jaime’s hand. Oops! Theon, maybe? Seems a bit tall for Alfie.

I think it’s more about the constraints of production rather than a desire to avoid spoilers. They’re using hundreds of extras for the Winterfell battle, and I’m guessing there will be dozens of extras for the KL exterior scenes.

Italica filming: my understanding is that they’re not just using the amphitheater as they did in S7, but rather that they’re using the whole site. Will all of it be doubling for the dragonpit, or will the various areas of the ruins be used for different things?

[Happy Harpy]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Right, forgot about Jaime’s hand. Oops! Theon, maybe? Seems a bit tall for Alfie.

Is Rory McCann on set? Because somehow, tall = Hound in my mind.

[anamika]

 

New weapon to take down a dragon in KL. Looks like Qyburn's been hard at work. Getting a bit bored with Dragons getting hit by these spears.

If a dragon has to go down, I would prefer a dragon fight between Dany/Jon on one dragon and the NK on the other. Like Caraxes and Vhagar during the dance of the dragons.

Edited April 6, 2018 by anamika

[GrailKing]

FYI: according to WOTW, the Scorpions up above will be three on the walls of KL.

Could they be in the Godswood?

4 minutes ago, anamika said:

 

 

New weapon to take down a dragon in KL. Looks like Qyburn's been hard at work. Getting a bit bored with Dragons getting hit by these spears.

If a dragon has to go down, I would prefer a dragon fight between Dany/Jon on one dragon and the NK on the other. Like Caraxes and Vhagar during the dance of the dragons.

 

you're a tad late : LOL, ^^^^^^^^^^

Maybe, they will only have 1 dragon rider, and Bran wargging.

Edited April 6, 2018 by GrailKing

[Eyes High]

Tidbits via /Freefolk:

1. Pilou Asbaek apparently tweeted the "crying and laughing" emoji after the table read back in the fall. I'm wondering if Euron dies in rather amusing fashion early on in S8. It would explain why Theon is back at Winterfell in time for the big battle, if that January leaker is to be believed. On the other hand, if Frikidoctor is right about Cersei no longer being in charge when KL is attacked later in the season, then who is? Anyone?

2. Apparently the crew who worked on the night shoots got a nifty t-shirt and a sweet message from the GOT producers that read as follows (bold mine):

Quote

This is for the Night Dragons.
For enduring 55 straight nights. For enduring the cold, the snow, the rain, the mud, the sheep shit of Toome and the winds of Magheramorne.
When tens of millions of people around the world watch this episode a year from now, they won't know how hard you worked. They won't care how tired you were or how tough it was to do your jobs in sub-freezing temperatures.
They'll just understand that they're watching something that has never been done before.
And that's because of you.
Thank you
The Producer Types
Season VIII
Game of Thrones

If all the night shoots (including the Moneyglass Winterfell exterior battle filming) are from one episode as this implies, then I guess there's one huge battle episode and that's it? I had thought that the night shoots covered 8x03 (Winterfell battle) and 8x04 (AOTD stuff), but if this message is to be believed, it's all one episode, isn't it? If that Watchersonmyballs person is to be believed and Jaime's death was filmed during the night shoots, would this mean that Jaime dies in 8x03? Seems awfully early.

"A year from now"? Ugh. I mean, I figured it would be March or April 2019, but still, ugh.

3. Joe Dempsie had the following to say about GOT's ending (again, bold mine):

Quote

"It’s an ending I don’t think many people will be expecting and I think, on reflection, people will really, really enjoy"

"On reflection"?! It sounds like he's expecting initial fan shock and disappointment that will go away with time. And here we have him echoing comments from Maisie and (I believe) others to the effect that they think that the ending is very surprising. Now, do they think it's surprising because it's darker than what they think fans are expecting or not dark enough?

Maybe, as suggested on /Freefolk, everyone on the A-team is wiped out, leaving the B-team to pick up the pieces. I doubt it, personally, but who knows?

Edited April 7, 2018 by Eyes High

[bubble sparkly]

It’s so difficult to tell what actors and writers etc consider surprising. So often I find that shows will hype something up as a massive OMG twist but fandom has been predicting said twist for half a season.

Like, after the anvils in s7 about Dany’s not-barren womb, we are all calling she is going to be pregnant next season. But when this pregnancy is revealed I bet we will get interviews with some of the writers and actors talking about what a crazy shock her being pregnant is lol.

Personally, I think there’s a good chance the iron throne will be purposefully destroyed as a symbolic gesture of all the shit that has gone down due to people fighting for it, and whoever takes power will talk about bettering the realm for everyone etc. I would say that the IT being dismantled is not an uncommon fandom theory, but if it does happen I could definitely see the actors and writers playing it up as a massive surprise. Stuff like “The thing people have spent 8 seasons fighting over gets smashed to smithereens, I couldn’t believe it when I read the script! In the end no one winds up on the throne.” etc.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, bubble sparkly said:

It’s so difficult to tell what actors and writers etc consider surprising. So often I find that shows will hype something up as a massive OMG twist but fandom has been predicting said twist for half a season.

Fair enough. It also seems unlikely that Dempsie thinks that devoted fans would come to "really, really enjoy" an ending where one or more of Jon/Dany/Tyrion/Arya died.

There's another interesting bit from Dempsie in that same interview:

Quote

 

"I'm sure David and Dan don't pay too much attention to people's theories and speculation there is all over the internet, but it would be a bit of an anti-climax if a well-popularized theory turned out to be the way it ended.

"There's many pitfalls and I think they really have achieved that with this. It's an ending I don't think many people will be expecting and I think, on reflection, people will really, really enjoy."

 

What's the well-popularized theory? Gendry on the Iron Throne? Jon and/or Dany ruling together? The end of the Iron Throne?

Thinking more about what Dempsie said about the ending--that it was one that people "on reflection" would come to enjoy--made me think of the many crappy TV finales I've experienced over the years:

1. Awesome And Satisfying At First But I Eventually Realized It Was Just Mindless Fanservice

2. Horribly Written, Fanservicey, And Maudlin But I Cried Like A Baby Anyway, What Is Wrong With Me

3. Needed Extensive Detailed Youtube Video Breakdowns To Understand WTF Happened

4. So Bad It Made Me Seriously Question The Fact That I Ever Liked The Show, How Did That Showrunner Ever Land Another Show After That Mess

5. Contained A Truly Eyeroll-Inducing Final Sequence, But My OTP Finally Got Together, So Whatever

...And yes, I'm referencing specific shows here, two of which were specifically called out by GRRM as having the type of shitty ending he hoped to avoid. We'll see.

I had been thinking that the GOT finale, like much of the show, is going to be like #1, but I'm worried that it will be a #4.

At the very least I'm hoping the ending won't get me to yell "Oh, come ON" at the TV the way #5 did.

ETA: Jonathan Quinlan (GOT crew) reposted the message from the GOT producers thanking the crew for the night shoots and saying it was "11 weeks, 3 locations." One location is Magheramorne, the second (I assume) is Moneyglass (maybe that's what they mean by "Toome"). What's the third? Saintfield?

From another Dempsie interview with Metro UK:

Quote

"It meant that I really appreciated it," Dempsie said about returning. "I really appreciated my time with Kit, and with Alfie, and with Gwendoline, and with Jacob Anderson and Hannah Murray."

Edited April 7, 2018 by Eyes High

[anamika]

37 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

...And yes, I'm referencing specific shows here, two of which were specifically called out by GRRM as having the type of shitty ending he hoped to avoid. We'll see.

 

Now, I am curious about what these shows are. Is Battlestar Galactica in there? I utterly hated that ending and felt like I wasted my time on the series.

I stopped watching LOST after I became bored a few seasons later, but I heard the ending sucked.

With regards to Joe Dempsie, his 'Upon reflection, they will come to enjoy it' is giving me pause. But it's really hard to not disappoint anyone. I know Jaime-Brienne shippers who would find it predictable if anyone but Jaime and Brienne sit on the Iron throne and expect them to do so. There's like some 20 popular characters on this show and not everyone is going to get to where there fans expect them to.

Maisie and Joe seemed to be pleased with their stories this season.

Edited April 7, 2018 by anamika

[Eyes High]

9 minutes ago, anamika said:

Now, I am curious about what these shows are. Is Battlestar Galactica in there? I utterly hated that ending and felt like I wasted my time on the series.

I stopped watching LOST after I became bored a few seasons later, but I heard the ending sucked.

Yeah, both LOST and BSG are on that list. GRRM openly complained about both shows' endings and held them up as examples of the type of ending he wished to avoid with ASOIAF. We'll see if he succeeds.

Quote

With regards to Joe Dempsie, his 'Upon reflection, they will come to enjoy it' is giving me pause.

Me, too. I don't want to have to wait to enjoy it. I want to enjoy it when it airs, not after I let it settle and marinate.

On the other hand, I've been burned before with finales where I was initially suffused with the warm glow of fannish satisfaction and fulfilment, which went away the moment I went "Wait a minute..." So there's something to be said for endings that don't go for fanservicey cheap thrills. On the other hand, just because an ending is satisfying doesn't mean it's automatically fanservice.

 

Quote

Maisie and Joe seemed to be pleased with their stories this season.

They do.

[screamin]

On 4/4/2018 at 11:25 AM, SimoneS said:

I don't see how Magic dies. This isn't Lord of the Rings set in Middle Earth where humans are the majority and all the magical beings (and those touched by magic) can leave for the Undying Lands. In the GoT world, outside of the main characters there are probably thousands of people with differing levels of magic across all the lands. They are not all going to drop dead or hop on a boat to somewhere else and there is nothing to stop them from migrating to a peaceful prosperous Westeros. Magic will continue whether the dragons, main Targaryans or Starks live or die. 

The Children of the Forest predicted that they themselves and all magical creatures will perish for good. Since humans aren't intrinsically magical, the question is whether they can survive the coming dusk of magic in the world with all its predicted apocalyptic battles. IMO, the dusk itself IS pretty firmly predicted to take place.

[Sunshinegal]

As long as the ending stays true to the spirit of the show/books, I would think that it would be a good ending.  The ending should seem logical in universe. 

I agree that the Lost and BSG finales were unsatisfying.  And people did predict the ending for Lost, so it wasn't a surprise either.  The one finale most fans didn't like was the finale for How I Met Your Mother (and the final season).  Most people hated that finale. 

Thinking about finales, the Breaking Bad finale (and its final season) was good. 

Hopefully the ending will be like Breaking Bad and not like How I Met Your Mother. 

[glowbug]

The BSG ending was truly awful. I found absolutely no redeeming qualities in it. I wasn't happy or unhappy about the How I Met Your Mother finale. I had very mixed feelings about the Lost ending. On the one hand, the way the mystery was explained and wrapped up was the absolute worst and completely unsatisfying. If I had been watching primarily for the mystery I would have hated the ending pure and simple. However, I believe that Lost did a very good job with the character arcs, independent of the mystery. I was very satisfied with the characters' journeys and endings so overall I just couldn't hate the Lost ending, although I agree with a lot of the criticism of it.

Obviously, the best ending is one in which the plot and character arcs are both resolved satisfactorily, however, if I had to choose, I prefer to have a satisfactory ending to the characters at the expense of the plot because I find these endings more satisfying. I think a lot of people watching GOT feel the opposite. Hopefully the writers can pull off a satisfying ending for the majority of viewers. 

[bubble sparkly]

9 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Fair enough. It also seems unlikely that Dempsie thinks that devoted fans would come to "really, really enjoy" an ending where one or more of Jon/Dany/Tyrion/Arya died.

Oh yes definitely, I too hope that comment was a sign that the big 5 "good guys" will make it through.  Plus we have IHW's comment about some people finding the ending "too happy", which perhaps suggests there won't be a main character blood bath.

 

9 hours ago, Eyes High said:

"I'm sure David and Dan don't pay too much attention to people's theories and speculation there is all over the internet, but it would be a bit of an anti-climax if a well-popularized theory turned out to be the way it ended.

This line of thinking baffles me a bit, because well popularized theories are popular for a reason (especially when the books series has been going for over 20 years!). Sure, some theories can be arise just because of shipping preferences etc (i.e. the laughable undercover Jon theory where Jon is in love with Sansa and banging Dany to somehow ensure Sansa's safety), but there are a lot of GOT theories that are based on lots of book evidence and foreshadowing etc. For example, R+L=J was a popular theory because all the clues had been well laid out. When Jon's true parentage was revealed the majority of the audience as not exactly shocked, but that didn't automatically make the reveal anti-climactic.  My personal opinion is that a good ending to a show shouldn't be a massive shock / WTF, because if it is that means the writers haven't done their jobs and set it up properly.

[Sunshinegal]

7 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

This line of thinking baffles me a bit, because well popularized theories are popular for a reason (especially when the books series has been going for over 20 years!). Sure, some theories can be arise just because of shipping preferences etc (i.e. the laughable undercover Jon theory where Jon is in love with Sansa and banging Dany to somehow ensure Sansa's safety), but there are a lot of GOT theories that are based on lots of book evidence and foreshadowing etc. For example, R+L=J was a popular theory because all the clues had been well laid out. When Jon's true parentage was revealed the majority of the audience as not exactly shocked, but that didn't automatically make the reveal anti-climactic.  My personal opinion is that a good ending to a show shouldn't be a massive shock / WTF, because if it is that means the writers haven't done their jobs and set it up properly.

I agree with you.  The ending should make sense and the writers should do their jobs to set up the conclusion properly.  A good "shocking" ending that I can think of is the Season 1 finale for the Good Place.  The ending seems shocking, but the writers did a good job in setting up that ending.  I rewatched the first season with the ending in mind and they did set up that "shocking" moment.  Hopefully the writers will set up this ending properly.

[anamika]

11 hours ago, Eyes High said:

From another Dempsie interview with Metro UK:

"It meant that I really appreciated it," Dempsie said about returning. "I really appreciated my time with Kit, and with Alfie, and with Gwendoline, and with Jacob Anderson and Hannah Murray."

More confirmation of Theon at Winterfell for the big battle possibly in episode 3. Which could imply he deals with Euron and Yara in the first two episodes. Maybe he drops off Yara at the Iron Islands and makes his way North to help the Starks.

Euron is a mystery. We have confirmation that the GC have made it North and is fighting in that big battle from the GC shields that were lying around and a video of soldiers chanting outside the gates while trying to ram open the gates (WOTW video). There are also Greyjoy shields there. I think we can say that those shields belong to the soldiers that Theon brought along. Euron either dies in the confrontation with Theon or he goes to KL to oust Cersei.

Or the person who is in charge of KL when the NK attacks is going to be Jon - which I don't think is the case.

It sounds like both WW and GC are involved in the episode shot for 55 nights. Sounds epic!  We could have the scenario of the GC attacking and then suddenly the WW make an appearance.

[whateverdgaf]

15 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

Fair enough. It also seems unlikely that Dempsie thinks that devoted fans would come to "really, really enjoy" an ending where one or more of Jon/Dany/Tyrion/Arya died.

I have to disagree with this. The show is popularized as the type of show where anyone can die and that is something that attracts a lot of people, who enjoy the higher stakes and can appreciate tragic and bittersweet moments, such as popular characters dying. And with a cast as large as Game of Thrones and with so many characters that are of significance and have a sizable fanbase it's still conceivable for one or more of the characters mentioned to be killed off and the audience to still be satisfied with the ending and have characters they root for to still be alive. 

[Eyes High]

18 hours ago, anamika said:

More confirmation of Theon at Winterfell for the big battle possibly in episode 3. Which could imply he deals with Euron and Yara in the first two episodes. Maybe he drops off Yara at the Iron Islands and makes his way North to help the Starks.

Euron is a mystery. We have confirmation that the GC have made it North and is fighting in that big battle from the GC shields that were lying around and a video of soldiers chanting outside the gates while trying to ram open the gates (WOTW video). There are also Greyjoy shields there. I think we can say that those shields belong to the soldiers that Theon brought along. Euron either dies in the confrontation with Theon or he goes to KL to oust Cersei.

Or the person who is in charge of KL when the NK attacks is going to be Jon - which I don't think is the case.

It sounds like both WW and GC are involved in the episode shot for 55 nights. Sounds epic!  We could have the scenario of the GC attacking and then suddenly the WW make an appearance.

Ironborn talk:

Going off information collected mostly on /Freefolk, we know the following:

1. KL set construction is almost finished in Belfast, and Italica ruins filming in Spain will be in May (and maybe this month, too, it's not clear).

2. Alfie and Gemma have started or will be starting filming their own projects soon.

3. Gemma was last seen in Belfast in December. (Doesn't mean she wasn't there, but it's the last time she was seen.) I think Gemma filmed on the Pyke Northern Ireland set.

4. Alfie has been spotted in Belfast over the past few months. A 4chan leaker claimed that he saw scenes where Theon was helping Bran at Winterfell.

5. According to WOTW, there's a scene with Theon and Yara on a boat.

6. /Watchersonmyballs posted pictures of dummy corpses at the Magheramorne set which included Ironborn corpses, which suggests Ironborn corpses are going to be part of the big battle.

7. Pilou hasn't been seen filming for several months and says that he won't be finished filming until June. The actor cast as the leader of the GC is also supposed to be filming in June.

8. Javi Marcos at Los Siete Reinos has claimed that by the time KL is attacked, Cersei is no longer on the Iron Throne.

9. The Italica ruins stuff in Spain is for 8x05 and 8x06. While not confirmed, it seems likely that the KL exterior filming set for June (and May, too, I'm not sure) is also from late in the season.

Putting all this together, and being mindful as always that scenes are not shot in order, it seems as if the order of events for this storyline is roughly as follows:

1. Theon springs Yara fairly early on in the season while Euron is off getting the GC (assuming Euron dumped Yara at Pyke).

2. Theon heads to Winterfell with the Ironborn soldiers. Yara either doesn't go with him (maybe because of her injuries), or goes and evacuates with the other characters who aren't involved in the fighting. It's possible that Gemma was part of the night shoots and we just didn't hear about Gemma in Belfast, of course.

3. Theon and maybe Yara join Team Jon/Dany's huge battle with the AOTD (and the GC, that part's not clear). 

4. Cersei is deposed by Euron...? Not sure about the timing on this, or who orders the attack on Winterfell if there are human attackers.

5. Team Jon/Dany have to deal with Euron in KL, something something dragons I guess, but Theon and Yara aren't part of it.

...Now, it's possible that Alfie and/or Gemma will wrap up their films before the KL exterior filming (Italica and then Belfast) starts, but how likely is that?

If this timeline is correct, it would mean that Theon won't be the one responsible for Euron's demise. It also seems possible that Theon dies in the huge Winterfell battle, since why else would he be absent from the KL craziness if Euron is running things? Wouldn't he feel personally obligated to take Euron down?

It sounds as if the KL stuff may be the Scouring of the Shire bit, with Euron playing Saruman.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Eyes High

[anamika]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

1. Theon springs Yara fairly early on in the season while Euron is off getting the GC (assuming Euron dumped Yara at Pyke).

2. Theon heads to Winterfell with the Ironborn soldiers. Yara either doesn't go with him (maybe because of her injuries), or goes and evacuates with the other characters who aren't involved in the fighting. It's possible that Gemma was part of the night shoots and we just didn't hear about Gemma in Belfast, of course.

3. Theon and maybe Yara join Team Jon/Dany's huge battle with the AOTD (and the GC, that part's not clear). 

4. Cersei is deposed by Euron...? Not sure about the timing on this, or who orders the attack on Winterfell if there are human attackers.

5. Team Jon/Dany have to deal with Euron in KL, something something dragons I guess, but Theon and Yara aren't part of it.

...Now, it's possible that Alfie and/or Gemma will wrap up their films before the KL exterior filming (Italica and then Belfast) starts, but how likely is that?

If this timeline is correct, it would mean that Theon won't be the one responsible for Euron's demise. It also seems possible that Theon dies in the huge Winterfell battle, since why else would he be absent from the KL craziness if Euron is running things? Wouldn't he feel personally obligated to take Euron down?

It sounds as if the KL stuff may be the Scouring of the Shire bit, with Euron playing Saruman.

 

Sounds about right. Not sure about Yara/Asha - I do think she makes it out alive. But Theon's survival in the books is not looking good. I don't think he is coming back from what he's become.

As for the GC - we know they are involved in the battle from the pictures of their shields. Why are they there? The most probable reason is because Euron/Cersei sends them there as mentioned last season. Could it be that they change sides because of Dany/Jon? Maybe. But I think we can expect an initial attack against Winterfell from them.

I think Freefolk are right when they say that WOTW are paid stooges of HBO who selectively leak info and sometimes even false info. In this article based on some grainy pictures, Sue the Fury claims that Lannister soldiers are attacking WF.

http://watchersonthewall.com/exciting-night-shoots-ongoing-winterfell-game-thrones-season-8/

And it's only when someone brings up the GC in the comments she says this:

Quote

And Euron was off to fetch the Golden Company before the end of season 7, and Euron has an incredibly fast fleet. The distance between Essos and Westeros isn’t that far- it ain’t called the Narrow Sea for nothing. Lots of possibilities in play.

There were no Lannister shields or corpses in the piles of dead bodies, so it's a good bet that Lannister soldiers don't go North and are sitting in KL with their dragon killing weapons ready to take on Dany. 

The only army going North to attack WF seem to be the GC and even that is logically ridiculous - considering Euron's ships would have to land in White Harbor and how the hell do the Northerners not know these guys are coming?! 1. Jaime is going to tell them and 2. Manderly and co. would be taking them on before they even get to WF.

Edited April 9, 2018 by anamika

[Eyes High]

36 minutes ago, anamika said:

Sounds about right. Not sure about Yara/Asha - I do think she makes it out alive. But Theon's survival in the books is not looking good. I don't think he is coming back from what he's become.[1]

As for the GC - we know they are involved in the battle from the pictures of their shields.[2]

I think Freefolk are right when they say that WOTW are paid stooges of HBO who selectively leak info and sometimes even false info.[3]

The only army going North to attack WF seem to be the GC and even that is logically ridiculous - considering Euron's ships would have to land in White Harbor and how the hell do the Northerners not know these guys are coming?! [4]

1. I think one of Theon/Yara survives. Not sure who will. If Theon is AWOL from the final showdown with Euron as the shooting schedule and cast info seem to suggest, I guess it will be him.

2. Forgot about the shields!

3. The WOTW folks want to preserve their relationship with HBO because of their sister Westworld fan site. Their rule seems to be that they’ll only leak something big if it’s already been published in a major news media outlet: the pic of Kit in costume filming the BOTB, e.g. All their “leaks” are pretty minor tidbits, like spoiling that at least one Sand Snake would die in S7. (Yawn.)

4. It’s a night attack, so I guess that’s how they expect to explain the element of surprise...which would only be an explanation if KL was a few hours away from Winterfell, of course. The writers probably think the viewers will be too dazzled by the spectacle of this Biggest Battle Evah to care very much about the logic of how it came about, and face it, they’re probably right.