S12.E22: Red Light

[Complexity]

3 minutes ago, roamyn said:

I must be the only one who likes Will & JJ.

I don't see why shows have to have romantic partners ala 'Moonlighting'.  This show has done fine not hooking up characters.

No, you aren't the only one. I don't understand the constant shipping. JJ is married, and there is no way Reid would mess up her marriage. I also think more highly of JJ. Reid and JJ have a love for each other, but it's not romantic. It's the deep caring that comes from years working together in many life and death situations. There's more to love than romantic love. Some other forms of love can be even more beautiful.

[Willowy]

Aaaand, there's the other side heard from! ;)

There's always been a divide in our fandom about should they/shouldn't they, and they have successfully maneuvered that minefield. Ed made that rule back in the day and they've pretty much stuck to it. I'd say the closest they've come is Morgan/Garcia. 

But the chemistry that MGG/AJ have is just so THERE for me. Some people see them as more bro/sis, but I do not. I think with them it's very complicated, made moreso by her and Will, but I've always seen a deep well of love there that just isn't familial. The way they touch each other... and are always touching each other... fuels me and my fannish obsession. I know I'm not alone in feeling it, but neither are those that reject it. 

The only way I could ever see it happening is if Will turns bad, leaves JJ, or dies. Of the 3, him dying is the most likely scenario, and I think that would make for some GREAT drama. Spencer would get to be there for her, and if done well it could be excellent CM, imo.

[roamyn]

1 hour ago, Willowy said:

Aaaand, there's the other side heard from! ;)

There's always been a divide in our fandom about should they/shouldn't they, and they have successfully maneuvered that minefield. Ed made that rule back in the day and they've pretty much stuck to it. I'd say the closest they've come is Morgan/Garcia. 

Sorry to ruin your party! ;-D

Even before AJ got pregnant IRL, I thought JJ had tremendous flirtation & romantic chemistry with Will (during 'Jones').  So it made sense to me to bring him back for a plausible cover.  And it's nice to see one character (okay 2 w/Morgan), have a happy home life.

I'd like to see an AU episode where Reid IS bad, and hook he & Cat up  before she got arrested.

[R3volver]

2 hours ago, Willowy said:

Aaaand, there's the other side heard from! ;)

There's always been a divide in our fandom about should they/shouldn't they, and they have successfully maneuvered that minefield. Ed made that rule back in the day and they've pretty much stuck to it. I'd say the closest they've come is Morgan/Garcia. 

But the chemistry that MGG/AJ have is just so THERE for me. Some people see them as more bro/sis, but I do not. I think with them it's very complicated, made moreso by her and Will, but I've always seen a deep well of love there that just isn't familial. The way they touch each other... and are always touching each other... fuels me and my fannish obsession. I know I'm not alone in feeling it, but neither are those that reject it. 

The only way I could ever see it happening is if Will turns bad, leaves JJ, or dies. Of the 3, him dying is the most likely scenario, and I think that would make for some GREAT drama. Spencer would get to be there for her, and if done well it could be excellent CM, imo.

3

This exactly.

I think also with JJ and Reid being the original plan(remember the date?) before they pulled the plug on romance within the team, and MGG confirming Reid's crush, I can't see their relationship as familial. 

[normasm]

One of the loose ends in the episode was who was the inside man/woman in the FBI? The one that "when he's found he will no longer be in the FBI" (paraphrasing) according to Prentiss. Remember after Reid was reunited and everyone left, and Prentiss got a text? She went to a guy who told her "he" was waiting in her office, meaning Morgan, as we find out. As she went by, they did a close-up on his face, and stayed there for a long, pointed (I think) moment. Is he the mole?

[ReidFan]

ugh. No to romance.

But as an avowed non JJ/Reid shipper, even I thought there should've been something in the elevator. He's apprehensive, exhausted and I woulda thought she'd touch his arm or shoulder supportively or something.

unless I missed it of course, which is entirely possible as I'm sick as a dog and need to watch it again.

[ReidFan]

1 minute ago, normasm said:

One of the loose ends in the episode was who was the inside man/woman in the FBI? The one that "when he's found he will no longer be in the FBI" (paraphrasing) according to Prentiss. Remember after Reid was reunited and everyone left, and Prentiss got a text? She went to a guy who told her "he" was waiting in her office, meaning Morgan, as we find out. As she went by, they did a close-up on his face, and stayed there for a long, pointed (I think) moment. Is he the mole?

i suppose that's possible. but i'm thinking somehow scratch has managed to infiltrate their supposedly firewalled and secure computers. who is 'he' anyway? first time we've seen him, no?

[Willowy]

Yes, it's the first time. I noticed that long hold on his face too, @normasm. Something tells me that's not the last we'll see of that guy. 

If they wanted to do a mole story, to me they're missing someone pretty perfect: Anderson. He knows everything about the team, and it could even harken back to when he dropped off Elle. That could've been a setup to get her killed by the Fisher King, instead of the accident they painted it as at the time. 

[roamyn]

NO MOLE STORYLINE!!!!

 Agghhh I had too much of that on NCIS LA this season.  

Didn't Scratch hack the system to find the author in WPP?  Why can't he have been the one to do it again to get info on Reid?

Edited May 11, 2017 by roamyn

[majormama]

In my head, I'm imagining Spencer visiting Cat in prison regularly just to spar with her mentally/verbally, and it developing into a weird, dysfunctional, yet totally hot "romance". They each know who and what the other is, there's no expectation of traditional love, yet they stimulate each other intellectually in a way no one else can.

"Back again, Spency? You just can't stay away."

I would so watch that. (Or read the fanfiction.)

[Kara101]

I personally never saw the relationship between JJ and Reid to be romantic or familial. They seem like very good friends to me. Not brother and sister, not romantic partners. Reid definitely thought she was pretty back in season 1, and I'm sure he still does, but it was not mutual and I don't think he sees her in a romantic way anymore. 

I saw on tumblr a post stating that they think Derek was acting weird and he's really purposefully leading the team into a trap because his family is being held hostage. I thought it was interesting, but I don't think it's true becuase the plot and the fallout seems way too Morgan-heavy considering he's no longer on the team.

I really liked this episode. I am SO HAPPY that Reid was not sexually assaulted. That was a huge relief. I have to admit my heart was beating very fast when Cat was trying the guess Reid's secret. I had no idea what it was.

I did cringe during the scene of Maeve trying to seduce Reid though, lol.

Oh, and so is the consensus that Reid poisoned the drugs out of revenge? Or was he trying to see who was involved with the drugs? By the sounds of it Reid did it because he really did want to hurt the men (not that I blame him.)

I also have to ask why Cat seems to be so flirtatious and sort of sexual with Reid. Does she want to get with him? I think she does it to just try to frazzle him but I'm not sure.

I was so worried Diana wouldn't remember Reid when they reunited. That would have been heartbreaking.

[ReidFan]

2 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

 

Oh, and so is the consensus that Reid poisoned the drugs out of revenge? Or was he trying to see who was involved with the drugs? By the sounds of it Reid did it because he really did want to hurt the men (not that I blame him.)

 

honestly, he *had* a legitimate beef with Frazier and Duerson. I think he thought, since Frazier had referred to those drugs as 'his personal stash' that only F&D would be using them. Malcolm was collateral damage as F&D made him use them, but I think Reid was genuinely surprised that Shaw as well as at least two others (they said 'the six who were poisoned were released from the infirmary) partook of them as well. Although that also confirmed for him that Shaw, indeed, was behind it all.

[normasm]

13 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

honestly, he *had* a legitimate beef with Frazier and Duerson. I think he thought, since Frazier had referred to those drugs as 'his personal stash' that only F&D would be using them. Malcolm was collateral damage as F&D made him use them, but I think Reid was genuinely surprised that Shaw as well as at least two others (they said 'the six who were poisoned were released from the infirmary) partook of them as well. Although that also confirmed for him that Shaw, indeed, was behind it all.

This. Yes, if he "poisoned" the drugs, it would have not been meant to be fatal but just to make Frazier and Duerson sick and out of commission. And he had heard Malcolm say he was chosen because he "wouldn't touch the stuff." Yes, I concur he was surprised about Shaw.

[UncleChuck]

OK...so someone (another damn mole???!!!) from the Bureau fed the guard and Lindsay and Cat Reid's personal (personnel?) files from the FBI.  But what kind of stupid file would contain information that Reid had not visited Morgan or Morgan's family?

[ReidFan]

15 hours ago, Nothingsurprisesme said:

I would have voted for a Morgan/Reid scene rather than a Mr Scratch cliffhanger.  Then from start to finish would have been perfect.

yeah, but to hear Erica out. Apparently both Matthew and Shemar were included in the discussion while it was being written. Both felt that there was such a powerful last scene between them in Beautiful Disaster (the actual goodbye, and later just the nod as Morgan got into the elevator) that they wanted to leave the onscreen at that. I concur with this train of thought, actually. If they ever have Shemar on again, then I would expect some scenes between them and maybe a remark about bringing breakfast or some such.

I know he's got his own show now, but I was thinking they if they could bring Shemar back once again, perhaps Rochelle too, a final case to once and for all get rid of Scratch where Morgan's family is endangered, and his old BAU teammates, led by Prentiss but on point with the new assertive, take no crap version of Reid rescuing them and finally disposing of Scratch....

I love Bodhi Elfman, but frankly, I think we're ALL tired of Scratch. (the more they 'use' him, the less impact his original episode has with me)

and *sobs* they are making me watch hockey again. I want to see the cc version of Red Light *cries*

[JMO]

Can anyone explain the XX-XY message, obviously left by Lyndsey, who didn't know Cat was pregnant, and thought she and Cat were in a relationship?

[senin]

I didn't understand that part either. 

The episode was so packed with information that I will need to rewatch it a couple of times, just to understand some parts. Then I'll rewatch just for fun !!

[normasm]

I never understood the XX-XY either. 

[Chaos Theory]

As someone who is not a Reid fan (and no I don't want to go into why) I avoided most of the Reid in prison storyline but on a whim caught the last two episodes.  I actually thought with the whole "I promised to be home every night" and that whole over long scene with Garcia Morgan was going to get shot in the hallway.  

Reid and Jj have always had chemistry that flips and flops between friends and more but for it to be more Will really does have to be utterly out of the picture.

[normasm]

17 hours ago, JMO said:

I wish they hadn’t chosen to present so much of the Reid/Cat interaction in the alternate reality.  For me, it detracted from the tension.  It would have been one thing to see an emotionally and physically exhausted Reid having to dig deep and pull out all the stops.  Instead we saw his debonair self exchanging witty and flirtatious conversation with the beautifully made up Cat.  Just took me out of it, for each of those scenes.  When they returned to real-life Reid, I was drawn in, intrigued, and on the edge of my seat.  And then we were back on the dance floor. 

See, I really liked that device. For me, I needed to see the delusion that Cat was crafting and Spencer was supposed to buy into, because it could have been quite seductive, if he hadn't hated her so much. Coming back to the exhausted Reid and the haggard Cat just made the fantasy that much more jarring and the real life situation grittier and more dangerous. I liked it even better watching the second time. It's interesting how we can see the same thing differently!

[Complexity]

35 minutes ago, JMO said:

Can anyone explain the XX-XY message, obviously left by Lyndsey, who didn't know Cat was pregnant, and thought she and Cat were in a relationship?

I have no idea if this is even close, but the thing that came to my mind was the pregnancy which, of course, can only happen by merging a male and female (the XX-XY chromosomes). So I thought it was a hint to Cat's pregnancy.

[illdoc]

Let's see---They know it's a trap. They're going to have SWAT check the house for traps and traps within traps. Rossi even says "the house itself may be a trap" but NO ONE thinks there may be traps on the way to the house? Even though they should know Mr. Scratch knows where they are coming from and where they are going to and when?!!! And they travel bunched together, so they all get trapped at once!

[JMO]

14 minutes ago, normasm said:

See, I really liked that device. For me, I needed to see the delusion that Cat was crafting and Spencer was supposed to buy into, because it could have been quite seductive, if he hadn't hated her so much. Coming back to the exhausted Reid and the haggard Cat just made the fantasy that much more jarring and the real life situation grittier and more dangerous. I liked it even better watching the second time. It's interesting how we can see the same thing differently!

Maybe I'll have to give it another full watch through.  I fast-forwarded through those scenes the second time around. But I can see why it might have been necessary and even desirable to switch back and forth.  And they definitely did look beautiful together.  But every time the ballroom came on screen, I yelled at my TV, "Stop!"  

6 minutes ago, Complexity said:

I have no idea if this is even close, but the thing that came to my mind was the pregnancy which, of course, can only happen by merging a male and female (the XX-XY chromosomes). So I thought it was a hint to Cat's pregnancy.

I took it that way too, until I realized that Lyndsey didn't know anything about the pregnancy.  I suppose she could have been blindly following orders.  I was just hoping it made more sense than that.  

Anyone know why replies get condensed sometimes, as these did?  Anyone know how to stop it?  It's annoying.

Edited May 11, 2017 by JMO

[Complexity]

5 minutes ago, JMO said:

I took it that way too, until I realized that Lyndsey didn't know anything about the pregnancy.

Good point. I had forgotten that.

5 minutes ago, JMO said:

Anyone know why replies get condensed sometimes, as these did?  Anyone know how to stop it?  It's annoying.

It seems to happen when you write two replies back-to-back with little time in between. I don't know the exact time, but I think it's something like 5 minutes. So to prevent it, wait about 5 minutes before posting the second reply.

[JMO]

6 minutes ago, Complexity said:

It seems to happen when you write two replies back-to-back with little time in between. I don't know the exact time, but I think it's something like 5 minutes. So to prevent it, wait about 5 minutes before posting the second reply.

Oh, you're saying it requires impulse control.  Guess I'll have to work on that.

[Kara101]

So did Cat actually want to have sex with Reid and was trying to seduce him? When she wanted Reid to come to the realization that they belong together, did she mean she actually wanted to be in a romantic relationship with Reid? Or was her flirty behavior just all part of the "game?" I'm still confused on that part.

[ReidFan]

4 hours ago, normasm said:

One of the loose ends in the episode was who was the inside man/woman in the FBI? The one that "when he's found he will no longer be in the FBI" (paraphrasing) according to Prentiss. Remember after Reid was reunited and everyone left, and Prentiss got a text? She went to a guy who told her "he" was waiting in her office, meaning Morgan, as we find out. As she went by, they did a close-up on his face, and stayed there for a long, pointed (I think) moment. Is he the mole?

this guy! >:-(

[Willowy]

Just asked Breen and that guy was Thomas's stand-in who no longer has a job so since he's also an aspiring actor they gave him a line in the episode.

Spoiler

He's not the mole. 

Breen also clarified about the XX XY thing:

"XX-XY was a message Cat told Lindsey to plant as part of the Scratch mislead. “They’ll think it means you and Scratch are working together” (as Reid initially profiles). Then, when he was in her prison, she could reveal the truth. Technically, “XX-XY” would imply that Cat already knows it’s a boy, even though she taunts Reid that it could be a boy or girl (“Spencie Jr… Maeve” line). My take is, she DOES know it’s a boy, but wants to mind-fuck, er, psychologically manipulate Reid as much as she can in that moment."

[normasm]

49 minutes ago, JMO said:

Maybe I'll have to give it another full watch through.  I fast-forwarded through those scenes the second time around. But I can see why it might have been necessary and even desirable to switch back and forth.  And they definitely did look beautiful together.  But every time the ballroom came on screen, I yelled at my TV, "Stop!"  

I took it that way too, until I realized that Lyndsey didn't know anything about the pregnancy.  I suppose she could have been blindly following orders.  I was just hoping it made more sense than that.  

Anyone know why replies get condensed sometimes, as these did?  Anyone know how to stop it?  It's annoying.

They condense multiple answers if a small amount of time has lapsed. Yeah, I find it annoying, too.

I can see how you found those scenes so jarring, JMO, but to me that was precisely the point.

I would have taken the XX and XY thing as a prejudgers hint if they had written XX + XY, but i'm sure that would have given away too much. Kinda lame that clue, I thought.

[R3volver]

3 hours ago, majormama said:

In my head, I'm imagining Spencer visiting Cat in prison regularly just to spar with her mentally/verbally, and it developing into a weird, dysfunctional, yet totally hot "romance". They each know who and what the other is, there's no expectation of traditional love, yet they stimulate each other intellectually in a way no one else can.

"Back again, Spency? You just can't stay away."

I would so watch that. (Or read the fanfiction.)

 

I'm not too sure he would have any type of fondness for the woman that tried to kill his mother.  I think he was just playing(and winning) her game.

[JMO]

Thanks for Breen's response on the XX-XY.  But I don't understand how he thinks it means anything at all about the sex of the baby.

[Kara101]

Maybe the XX-XY clue means it's a boy because XX represents tne mother, and the  XY, a boy, is branched off of the mother. I'm grasping at straws here.

[Willowy]

Breen Frazier, the writer of the episode said:

"Technically, “XX-XY” would imply that Cat already knows it’s a boy..."

[Kara101]

3 minutes ago, Willowy said:

Breen Frazier, the writer of the episode said:

"Technically, “XX-XY” would imply that Cat already knows it’s a boy..."

Yes, but why?! It shows both male and female chromosomes. I'm confused at what Breen meant.

Anyways, thanks for messaging Breen and getting intel, Willowly! Even if it's confusing haha

Edited May 11, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[JMO]

I suspect it just means that Breen majored in writing, and not biology.

[Willowy]

Or, that XX is Cat and XY is the baby. That's how I took it anyways.

[ReidFan]

I thought XX was Cat and she was implying that XY was Spencer. and they had to be together (not like THAT!) in order for him to find out what happened to his mother. And together they (gag!) 'made' that baby. I thought she was feeding him somewhat misleading information in preparation for The Game (Part 2)

21 minutes ago, JMO said:

I suspect it just means that Breen majored in writing, and not biology.

LOL!!!! :D

[JMO]

2 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

I thought XX was Cat and she was implying that XY was Spencer. and they had to be together (not like THAT!) in order for him to find out what happened to his mother. And together they (gag!) 'made' that baby. I thought she was feeding him somewhat misleading information in preparation for The Game (Part 2)

If Lyndsey was just following orders without understanding anything, I can see it as a cryptic message foreshadowing Cat's plan to deceive Reid about her baby.  I just couldn't make sense of it being Lyndsey's idea, since she knew nothing of the pregnancy.  

[ReidFan]

I'll have to watch it again. Lindsey's idea? I thought it was Cat all along? (Not, *I* thought it was Cat, I thought it was indicated that it was Cat I mean)

[Willowy]

This is turning into "Who's on First". 

If you read what Breen said again, he clearly states it was Cat's orders.

[JMO]

7 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

I'll have to watch it again. Lindsey's idea? I thought it was Cat all along? (Not, *I* thought it was Cat, I thought it was indicated that it was Cat I mean)

Lyndsey obviously physically wrote the message.  I'd just thought it was also her own idea, but it makes more sense if she was just writing something that Cat told her to write.  I get it now.

Edited May 11, 2017 by JMO

[normasm]

XX-XY would not mean anything about the sex of the baby. All XX-XY means is FEMALE-MALE. So, unless she has fraternal opposite-sex twins, it means nothing about the baby.

Besides, since there is a possibility Reid might want to gain custody of the child once it's born, I would insist at least ONE freakin' BAU baby be a girl!!!!!

[Hotchgirl18]

4 minutes ago, normasm said:

XX-XY would not mean anything about the sex of the baby. All XX-XY means is FEMALE-MALE. So, unless she has fraternal opposite-sex twins, it means nothing about the baby.

Besides, since there is a possibility Reid might want to gain custody of the child once it's born, I would insist at least ONE freakin' BAU baby be a girl!!!!!

He really should fight for custody. 

[Complexity]

Didn't the BAU team say it was the guard who impregnated Cat? So it's not Reid's baby.

[ReidFan]

it's not Reid's baby. It's Wilkins'. Yes, that was established in the episode, but only after they gave us all a heart attack and let us think it was Reid's for a bit. 

*shakes pitchfork* :)

[normasm]

No, it's not Reid's baby. But the mother is incompetent and the supposed father is dead. He could say she insisted he was the father, and apply. I'm not saying this needs to happen, I'm just saying, Spencer spent enough time last night talking about his wish that he was the father because he would take care of it and love it. The child will go into foster care at the very least. He might be able to make a case for custody, if he wants to.

But it needs to be a girl if that happens!!!! ::snark::

[JMO]

Yeah, I can only see him with a little baby girl.  But I want to see him with one who has inherited his genius.

[Kara101]

I hope he doesn't request custody of that baby. He's a great person but he's not a saint. Taking care of a baby that's not yours and is the child of someone who tried to killed your mother just seems like too much. He also doesn't have anybody to help him raise the baby with which would be very hard. The child will be adopted instantly since the child will be put up for adoption as an infant. Infants are in extreme demand and are scooped up instantly. He has no obligation to that baby and is not in the best position to raise it.

It would also delay Reid having his own baby with a partner who he wants to have it with. 

And I agree that I would want it to be a girl!

Edited May 11, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[ReidFan]

we'll either never hear about it again, or maybe Cat, having lost the game, will do something to lose the baby too. 

[Nothingsurprisesme]

Can someone help me figure out the scene when Reid and Diana are reunited.   When Reid stepped out of the elevator, I assume he didn't rush to her because he needed to assess her state of mind.  He wanoted to approach her based on her perception at that moment.   But what about Diana?  Emily had to tell her it was Spencer.   Did she not initially recognize him or what?  

I think Cat and Lindsee would have made more interesting season long unsubstantiated than Mr.  Scratch.  He is coming across now as some super villian in the comics