S01.E13: Chapter Thirteen: The Sweet Hereafter

[NicoleQueen]

The highlight of the season for me (in a show which I loved from beginning to end) is Archie punching the ice and breaking his hand to save Cheryl. I loved the whole set-up with the four of them immediately rushing to the river, saying "Screw it!" and running across the ice to get to her when she fell through (even though seconds earlier they didn't dare to move while she was standing still) but most of all, Archie - who has made questionable decisions all season and who isn't always decisive in what he wants, but who ultimately would put himself on the line for his friends - just going at it with a determination very few people (even older and more experienced than him) would possess. It was an unexpected surprise, especially since most people would just freeze (no pun-intended) in the moment.

I even doubt that season 2 will have a moment that will grab me like this.

[millennium]

This is a pretty bad show.   Some good one liners here and there (calling Cliff's suicide the cliffhanger of the year, for instance -- wanna bet they named him Cliff for the sake of that one joke?)   But overall, a waste of my time.  

The show has a serious case of tunnel vision.   In the last two or three episodes much of the supporting cast -- Reggie, Ethel and others -- basically ceased to exist.   Oddly, this narrow world view was echoed in Betty's ridiculous and elitist "We are Riverdale" speech, wherein no one but her closest friends and their parents "are" Riverdale.   Regardless, the rest of Riverdale's citizens (all of whom were unacknowledged by Betty), give her a standing ovation anyway.   Right.

Speaking of elitist, the whole "South Side" set up felt gross.   They made it seem Jughead was being sent to the fourth ring of hell because he had to attend school on the "wrong side" (less affluent) side of town.   I wonder if any South Side people jumped to their feet to cheer Betty's exclusionary speech.   Better yet, I wonder if any South Side people were allowed to attend that celebration, being that they are less than human.

From a story-writing standpoint, it also seems awkward how Miss Grundy was simply dropped from the story.   She was such a big part of the early episodes.   And her departure, heart-shaped sunglasses and all, suggested her story was far from over.   Yet she is never heard from or mentioned again.

Maybe my biggest complaint is the theme that drove this season -- Jason Bloom's murder.  Did anyone really give a damn who killed Jason Bloom?  I didn't.   We never knew Jason Bloom.   Why should we care?   The writers' shameless poaching of Twin Peaks was cringeworthy, almost as transparent as the way Arrow steals plots from Batman.

One more thing -- I wish I'd never seen Archie's performance of "Kids in America."  I'll never be able to hear that song without wincing again.

Edited June 16, 2017 by millennium

[PeekaBoo]

3 hours ago, millennium said:

This is a pretty bad show.   Some good one liners here and there (calling Cliff's suicide the cliffhanger of the year, for instance -- wanna bet they named him Cliff for the sake of that one joke?)   But overall, a waste of my time.  

The show has a serious case of tunnel vision.   In the last two or three episodes much of the supporting cast -- Reggie, Ethel and others -- basically ceased to exist.   Oddly, this narrow world view was echoed in Betty's ridiculous and elitist "We are Riverdale" speech, wherein no one but her closest friends and their parents "are" Riverdale.   Regardless, the rest of Riverdale's citizens (all of whom were unacknowledged by Betty), give her a standing ovation anyway.   Right.

Speaking of elitist, the whole "South Side" set up felt gross.   They made it seem Jughead was being sent to the fourth ring of hell because he had to attend school on the "wrong side" (less affluent) side of town.   I wonder if any South Side people jumped to their feet to cheer Betty's exclusionary speech.   Better yet, I wonder if any South Side people were allowed to attend that celebration, being that they are less than human.

From a story-writing standpoint, it also seems awkward how Miss Grundy was simply dropped from the story.   She was such a big part of the early episodes.   And her departure, heart-shaped sunglasses and all, suggested her story was far from over.   Yet she is never heard from or mentioned again.

Maybe my biggest complaint is the theme that drove this season -- Jason Bloom's murder.  Did anyone really give a damn who killed Jason Bloom?  I didn't.   We never knew Jason Bloom.   Why should we care?   The writers' shameless poaching of Twin Peaks was cringeworthy, almost as transparent as the way Arrow steals plots from Batman.

One more thing -- I wish I'd never seen Archie's performance of "Kids in America."  I'll never be able to hear that song without wincing again.

I totally get what you're trying to say and yeah... some things weren't very thought out. I blame the fact that they only had 13 episodes to tell a story and with the huge ensemble that the Archie universe has, there was bound to be several characters  tht had to be cut off ... I do hope they'll rectify that next season. 

And I also agree on how they vilified the Southside... you think they were talking about I don't know... South Central L.A. in the 90s or a Brazilian prison... Gah. Eye roll... talk about your overdramatizing thing... 

And thewhole.murder thing... While viewers might not have been interested in the murder itself... i did find the entire background interesting... and it still is even after we found out who did it.... 

[thuganomics85]

Really, Mayor McGrady, you knew both Archie and Betty were pissed over how the Jubilee was going to ignore Jughead and were reluctant to participate because of it.  You should have known they weren't going to stay on script.  You brought this on yourself.

Archie SMASH!!!  Props to him though.  He'll always be a bit of a dimwit, but if nothing else, he is willing to go all in if a friend (or whatever he considers Cheryl) or family member is in peril.  I think this is why even though I make fun of him and give him plenty of shit (and will likely continue going forward), I never hated him like I did other annoying leads, because even when he is doing something dumb or bad, his heart and intentions are usually in the right place.

Glad Cheryl was saved, and I'm really curious to see where they go with her character after she fucking burned own the Blossom mansion.  Penelope freaking out behind her was the best!

I figured at least one of the couples was going to be denied their sexy time, but I didn't see it being Jughead/Betty due to the South Side Serpents showing up to give Jughead a jacket and offer him membership.  Which he does.  Uh oh!  Then again, while Betty looked perturbed by it, what will Dark Betty think?!!

On the other hand, Archie continues to be the luckiest bastard on the planet, by actually getting it on with Veronica, but I sadly think he isn't being completely honest and does have feeling for Betty.  Damn you, Archie.  Yeah, Betty is cool and all, but you've somehow got an awesome, gorgeous girl like Veronica liking you!  Don't blow this!

Really starting to believe the theories that Hiram is going to end up not being as bad as expected, and its Heromine that is the real mastermind.  The more they show her, the more sinister she seems.  Meanwhile, Alice is actually becoming, gulp, likable?!

So, among all the other mysterious, I guess the big one for next season is who shot Fred and why, since Jughead's voiceover hints it wasn't an accident.  As for his fate, right now I'm leaning towards him pulling through, since it look like the wound was to his side, and it's usually the chest or heart, that is hit if a character is a goner.

Well, this was a crazy right, and I'm looking forward to more.  There are few issues they need to work on; mainly fleshing out their supporting cast like Kevin, Reggie (even though a lot of that was the actor getting another gig), and especially Josie and the Pussycats; but I loved the wacky storylines, one liners, scenery, and characters.  Hell, even Archie had moments where I enjoyed him.  And, of course, Camila Mendes as Veronica, who has already become one of my biggest television crushes of all time.  Great casting all around, but gold star to whoever discovered her.

Glad I checked the show out.  Looking forward to watching it live next season (or On Demand the next day)!

[NicoleQueen]

On 20.06.2017 г. at 9:29 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Really, Mayor McGrady, you knew both Archie and Betty were pissed over how the Jubilee was going to ignore Jughead and were reluctant to participate because of it.  You should have known they weren't going to stay on script.  You brought this on yourself.

Archie SMASH!!!  Props to him though.  He'll always be a bit of a dimwit, but if nothing else, he is willing to go all in if a friend (or whatever he considers Cheryl) or family member is in peril.  I think this is why even though I make fun of him and give him plenty of shit (and will likely continue going forward), I never hated him like I did other annoying leads, because even when he is doing something dumb or bad, his heart and intentions are usually in the right place.

Glad Cheryl was saved, and I'm really curious to see where they go with her character after she fucking burned own the Blossom mansion.  Penelope freaking out behind her was the best!

I figured at least one of the couples was going to be denied their sexy time, but I didn't see it being Jughead/Betty due to the South Side Serpents showing up to give Jughead a jacket and offer him membership.  Which he does.  Uh oh!  Then again, while Betty looked perturbed by it, what will Dark Betty think?!!

On the other hand, Archie continues to be the luckiest bastard on the planet, by actually getting it on with Veronica, but I sadly think he isn't being completely honest and does have feeling for Betty.  Damn you, Archie.  Yeah, Betty is cool and all, but you've somehow got an awesome, gorgeous girl like Veronica liking you!  Don't blow this!

Really starting to believe the theories that Hiram is going to end up not being as bad as expected, and its Heromine that is the real mastermind.  The more they show her, the more sinister she seems.  Meanwhile, Alice is actually becoming, gulp, likable?!

So, among all the other mysterious, I guess the big one for next season is who shot Fred and why, since Jughead's voiceover hints it wasn't an accident.  As for his fate, right now I'm leaning towards him pulling through, since it look like the wound was to his side, and it's usually the chest or heart, that is hit if a character is a goner.

Well, this was a crazy right, and I'm looking forward to more.  There are few issues they need to work on; mainly fleshing out their supporting cast like Kevin, Reggie (even though a lot of that was the actor getting another gig), and especially Josie and the Pussycats; but I loved the wacky storylines, one liners, scenery, and characters.  Hell, even Archie had moments where I enjoyed him.  And, of course, Camila Mendes as Veronica, who has already become one of my biggest television crushes of all time.  Great casting all around, but gold star to whoever discovered her.

Glad I checked the show out.  Looking forward to watching it live next season (or On Demand the next day)!

Penelope pointlessly slapping Cheryl's hair was priceless!

Archie's willingness to go all the way out for his friends (after he actually got in everyone else's plot) was his biggest saving grace this season where he was saddled with a questionable romance, having the least interesting and impactful storyline and being overall indecisive. I really hope they keep building him up because being the least interesting lead doesn't mean he has to have zero positive stuff going on.

As for the Veronica/Betty, a classic case of "now that I can't have you, I think I want you". The only way I see Archie realising he doesn't want Betty like that is if he tries himself on her and she turns him down by telling him neither is interested and they have better things going with Jug and V. (Though my shipping heart is more interested in B/A, but for the sake of not breaking up B/J, I'll sail A/V.)

Would love it next season Dark Betty and Serpent Jughead are the biggest power couple Riverdale had ever seen.

[smorbie]

On 5/11/2017 at 10:28 PM, Craphole Island said:

OMG Fred!! I feel like he will make it though.

 

Also Archie was great in this episode but are we actually supposed to believe him when he told Verinica he wants what Jughead and Betty have with her? Because I feel like his looks DID say otherwise. But the show did go out of its way to point that out so idk.

I know it's more entertaining if Hermione turns out to be evil but I don't want her to be! I usually like her so this episode was rough in that regard.

In the comics (60's and 70's versions) I always believed at some point Archie would grow up enough and take a good, long look at Betty.  veronica was so flighty, always dancing him and Reggie, and any other boy who wandered by.  She was also high maintenance.  I just can't see her being happy married to the owner of a construction company (let's get real about his music).

I think some really, really deep place, way down under the many layers of STUPID, saw Betty and Jughead and was jealous.  But that's a lot of layers of stupid to get through.

On 6/22/2017 at 4:25 AM, NicoleQueen said:

(Though my shipping heart is more interested in B/A, but for the sake of not breaking up B/J, I'll sail A/V.)

Totes agree.  I just so happy they gave Betty someone to love.  She's been chasing stupid Archie for like 70 years now, always on her own.

Now, if she would just burn Jughead's hat while he's sleeping.  :)

On 6/22/2017 at 4:25 AM, NicoleQueen said:

Archie SMASH!!!  Props to him though.  He'll always be a bit of a dimwit, but if nothing else, he is willing to go all in if a friend (or whatever he considers Cheryl) or family member is in peril.

He's stupid, but he always tries to do the right thing.

[smorbie]

On 6/20/2017 at 2:29 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Really, Mayor McGrady, you knew both Archie and Betty were pissed over how the Jubilee was going to ignore Jughead and were reluctant to participate because of it.  You should have known they weren't going to stay on script.  You brought this on yourself.

She doesn't come across as terribly bright

On 6/20/2017 at 2:29 AM, thuganomics85 said:

mainly fleshing out their supporting cast like Kevin, Reggie (even though a lot of that was the actor getting another gig), and especially Josie and the Pussycats;

could not possibly care less about Kevin and the pussy cats.  Reggie's okay, since he is a rival for Veronica's attentions.

[smorbie]

On 6/11/2017 at 5:45 PM, Enginerd said:

To me, it seems like the overlapping of time periods is a key element of the setting of Riverdale. It's been described as not being set in a particular year or time, but it also seems like all these different decades sort of exist simultaneously on top of the contemporary timeline. You have Betty and her family, who seem  very 1950s Americana. Fred has sort of a 90s emo grunge thing going. The Lodges seem all about 80s glamour and excess, although Veronica also dwells in a prim midcentury vibe. Jughead seems more in the now. Archie seems kind of 80s to me for some reason, as did Miss Grundy, especially with her heart sunglasses. Old cars, but new computers and phones. Classic diner. High school girls with names like Betty and Ethel. The Blossoms seem to belong to an even older period, maybe 1900s or 1910s, with their posh white summer clothes and gloomy estate and twisted ideas of many kinds.

Likewise, it's starting to seem like the seasons are also coexisting. Furs can be worn when it looks like summer, skimpy clothes when there's snow, maple trees can be tapped in the autumn, a girl can spend a minute in a lake under ice and be transported back across the snowy woods to town yet not freeze to death. The year or season simply does not matter. Normally it would seem like sloppy continuity or sacrificing reality for plot, but when it's all the time everywhere, it does seem more like a deliberate and interesting style choice.

I especially enjoyed all the scenes where the women were wearing thick sweaters with sleeves covering parts of their hands while Veronica was wearing low cut sleeveless dresses.

[Cherry Bomb]

As for the characters under dressing during the winter scenes and at the lake saving Cheryl I did find that quite weird. It is even more bizarre because aren't they filming in Vancouver for the majority of scenes and I imagine it is actually cold there. 

As for Season One itself I went into this never really reading the comics before and only knowing the names of the major characters so I was quite blind to all the personality flaws people were talking about between the comic characters and the show characters. Going into the show I wasn't expecting much and really it did take some time for these young actors to gel together on screen. With the exception of Cole Sprouse as Jughead doing the narration which I thought was brilliant and then shortly there after Lily Reinhardt as Betty were outstanding. The plot definitely had some slow moments along the way, but one thing I can say for this show is they always kept you guessing and formulating ideas and plot schemes for the next week. This is even the case with Episode 10 with Archie's Dad getting shot and the development of which way they will go with that next Season. To me that is what kept me tuning in week to week. Not particularly the acting because at times it was sub par with the exception of the two actors I mentioned above. I think if they keep people guessing and talking about the show it will continue to be a success. Once it becomes predictable it will go down very quick. Let's hope they can keep the plots full of twists and our minds twisting and formulating scenarios for Seasons to come.

[secnarf]

20 hours ago, Cherry Bomb said:

As for the characters under dressing during the winter scenes and at the lake saving Cheryl I did find that quite weird. It is even more bizarre because aren't they filming in Vancouver for the majority of scenes and I imagine it is actually cold there.

Cold is relative, I guess, but Vancouver is pretty temperate, with average temperatures above freezing even in winter. And I doubt the whole scene was filmed in an actual frozen lake - I will assume they didn't have Madelaine Petsch actually fall through the ice underwater.

I think the inconsistency is weird as a viewer, because you can't feel the temperature to judge what is reasonable, but in real life the weather changes often.

[Cherry Bomb]

12 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Cold is relative, I guess, but Vancouver is pretty temperate, with average temperatures above freezing even in winter. And I doubt the whole scene was filmed in an actual frozen lake - I will assume they didn't have Madelaine Petsch actually fall through the ice underwater.

I think the inconsistency is weird as a viewer, because you can't feel the temperature to judge what is reasonable, but in real life the weather changes often.

I agree they definitely didn't have Madelaine Petsch fall through the ice into the freezing water. I also am aware that people from the deep South would consider cold totally different from someone who resides in North. For me I live in the Mid Atlantic area and we can have mild winters and also several days that are in the single digits and are extremely cold. I would imagine the Vancouver area is the on location scene for shooting so most scenes if they are filmed outside are actually filmed in a non controlled climate and not a sound stage environment. Now the going through the ice was most likely digitally enhanced somehow I have know idea how they do that sort of thing, but where the gang is at the lake I would imagine they are actually outside. 

You are also correct when saying cold is relative. You know when I was a teen I would wear a light weight jacket in 20 degree Winter weather because of the fashion or it was for comfort. Now if it is really cold like that I bundle up and I am only 22 years old now, but I think teens focus more on what they look like and comfort of a light weight than being warm.