S10.E03: Thin Ice

[FiveByFive]

On 4/29/2017 at 11:57 PM, Toaster Strudel said:

I wasn't too thrilled when Bill was arguing with the Doctor and started with the drama... I've had enough of that with Clara for a lifetime. 

As other people have pointed out, other companions have done that. This is the first time she has seen someone killed before her eyes. I'd be more concerned if she just shrugged it off. 

On 4/30/2017 at 1:23 AM, companionenvy said:

That level of racism would have already been unusual in 1814 London.

Instead of talking about the history of the situation, I'll only point out that the bad guy was the only one treating Bill like that. The people at the fair had no problem talking to her, selling her things, etc. The guy working at the shipping yard had no problem seeing her as the Doctor's partner. 

I'd just say the bad guy was exceptionally racist.

Also, once again, Bill is just amazing. I am continuing to enjoy the dynamic she has with the Doctor. She asks good questions like pointing out that the sonic screwdriver doesn't exactly look like a screwdriver.  She points out important things including the idea that asking if a man was around a dock with a ship tattoo may not be garner the best answer. 

One thing I noticed is: he's not just traveling with her to show her the world he's also teaching her to think critically and make decisions. None of it is an after thought. It's a very pointed decision to do so -- specifically asking her what does she think, what should he do ... it seems like it's all going to lead to something. 

Since he's clearly putting himself into the position of teacher this time around, my guess is, eventually Bill is going to "graduate" and go on to some wonderful things. I could see her going back to school and becoming a Professor herself or something even more important. It just feels like he's preparing her for something. This is just pure speculation.  It's still refreshing that she's not, the "most important woman in the universe," "the girl who waited" or "impossible girl" from jump. 

[darkestboy]

I liked it, not as much as Dollard's previous episode but it certainly kept my attention.

The clothing and Frost Fairs looked gorgeous and the kids worked well as characters too.

I loved all the emotional beats with the Doctor and Bill here. They're just an amazing team.

I do wish Bill had gotten to punch Sutcliffe instead but at least he got a well deserved death though.

The sea creature story was too similar to the Star Whale but it still worked well,

Nardole had a glimmer of a darker side during that vault scene as well, 8/10
 

[benteen]

3 hours ago, FiveByFive said:

As other people have pointed out, other companions have done that. This is the first time she has seen someone killed before her eyes. I'd be more concerned if she just shrugged it off. 

Instead of talking about the history of the situation, I'll only point out that the bad guy was the only one treating Bill like that. The people at the fair had no problem talking to her, selling her things, etc. The guy working at the shipping yard had no problem seeing her as the Doctor's partner. 

I'd just say the bad guy was exceptionally racist.

Also, once again, Bill is just amazing. I am continuing to enjoy the dynamic she has with the Doctor. She asks good questions like pointing out that the sonic screwdriver doesn't exactly look like a screwdriver.  She points out important things including the idea that asking if a man was around a dock with a ship tattoo may not be garner the best answer. 

One thing I noticed is: he's not just traveling with her to show her the world he's also teaching her to think critically and make decisions. None of it is an after thought. It's a very pointed decision to do so -- specifically asking her what does she think, what should he do ... it seems like it's all going to lead to something. 

Since he's clearly putting himself into the position of teacher this time around, my guess is, eventually Bill is going to "graduate" and go on to some wonderful things. I could see her going back to school and becoming a Professor herself or something even more important. It just feels like he's preparing her for something. This is just pure speculation.  It's still refreshing that she's not, the "most important woman in the universe," "the girl who waited" or "impossible girl" from jump. 

I like this idea and it would fit with how it used to be with the companions where they would "serve their time" with the Doctor and then move on with their lives.

[John Potts]

9 hours ago, Ochan35 said:

A little aside here and I double checked the Doctor Who wiki to make sure I was correct but as far as Doctor Who canon is concerned Sarah Jane is still alive in-universe (well at least in the show's "present").

Going from my memory, the last time the Doctor met Luke Smith, he informed the Doctor that his adopted mother Sarah Jane had passed away (to coincide with Elisabeth Sladen's death). But despite an hour's Googling (purely because I want my facts to be accurate and not at all because I'm OCD when it comes to Who trivia, you understand!) I can't actually confirm that. And while it's possible there have been Universe re-boots that might mean she's still alive in some Universe, given the real world reasons for killing her character off, I doubt it.

[Llywela]

39 minutes ago, John Potts said:

Going from my memory, the last time the Doctor met Luke Smith, he informed the Doctor that his adopted mother Sarah Jane had passed away (to coincide with Elisabeth Sladen's death). But despite an hour's Googling (purely because I want my facts to be accurate and not at all because I'm OCD when it comes to Who trivia, you understand!) I can't actually confirm that. And while it's possible there have been Universe re-boots that might mean she's still alive in some Universe, given the real world reasons for killing her character off, I doubt it.

I'm almost positive that has never happened anywhere in televised Doctor Who - to my recollection, the Doctor has never met Luke outside of the Sarah Jane Adventures, which ended with Sarah very much alive still. Whatever might have happened in comics or fanfiction, in the televised universe, Sarah is still alive and well.

[benteen]

Llywela is right.  That has never happened on television Who, which is the most important. 

If you want to see a comic that addresses it, there's "The Girl Who Loved Doctor Who."  That comics sees the 11th Doctor crossing into our world (written by Paul Cornell) and the Doctor assures the girl that Sarah Jane is alive and well, saying "I know where my best friend is."

Edited May 2, 2017 by benteen

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Ask Doctor Who's Forgotten Companion

Hard-earned wisdom from Pete, who discovered that some time travel mistakes are too much to be borne.

[cardigirl]

On 4/30/2017 at 9:49 PM, ForReal said:

I simply can't understand half of what they say...it's seriously interfering with my understanding and enjoyment of the show.

This episode was especially bad for me.  Not sure if it's the way it's recorded or what.  I have to turn my sound up, waaaay up, to catch a lot of Bill's dialogue.

Edited May 2, 2017 by cardigirl

[Bruinsfan]

On 4/29/2017 at 10:09 PM, KirkB said:

That doesn't mean it isn't her, or him, or whatever, but the last time we saw Missy she was on the Dalek world. I'm not sure how she would get to Earth or why the Doctor would lock her up.

As for the first, the Daleks are generally the aliens with the next-most-advanced technology after the Time Lords themselves. I have every confidence that Missy could reconfigure whatever the Daleks use to keep their floors shiny into something that would allow her to travel through space and time. Heck, didn't one of the Slitheen manage to cobble something together to that effect early in New Who?

[Ochan35]

13 hours ago, Llywela said:

I'm almost positive that has never happened anywhere in televised Doctor Who - to my recollection, the Doctor has never met Luke outside of the Sarah Jane Adventures, which ended with Sarah very much alive still. Whatever might have happened in comics or fanfiction, in the televised universe, Sarah is still alive and well.

Actually he did encounter Luke an the end of The End of Time when his 10th incarnation was giving a swan song to all the companions he was associated with during the RTD era. Outside of that interaction I've come across nothing explicitly stating she had passed on, and definitely not in televised form. For example the Brigadier (who was mainly associated with the 3rd Doctor era but had encounters with almost all the Classic Doctors) we got a confirmation of his passing when the 11th called him either during Series 5 or 6. Ironically, his last televised appearance was on Sarah Jane. 

[benteen]

7 hours ago, Ochan35 said:

Actually he did encounter Luke an the end of The End of Time when his 10th incarnation was giving a swan song to all the companions he was associated with during the RTD era. Outside of that interaction I've come across nothing explicitly stating she had passed on, and definitely not in televised form. For example the Brigadier (who was mainly associated with the 3rd Doctor era but had encounters with almost all the Classic Doctors) we got a confirmation of his passing when the 11th called him either during Series 5 or 6. Ironically, his last televised appearance was on Sarah Jane. 

RTD made a mistake by not having the Brigadier appear on the show during his run.  A real missed opportunity.  The Brigadier was supposed to appear in "The Wedding of Sarah Jane" on The Sarah Jane Adventures, where he would have interacted with the 10th Doctor but I think Nicholas Courtney was sick at that point.  I think they did an e-novelization of that episode that has the Brigadier appearing.

[Archery]

I'm enjoying S10 so much more than S8 or S9, and it's because the Doctor has found his joy. Each of the nuWho Doctors had a different kind of joy. Nine was kinda manic, like, It's highly possible we're all going to die -- fantastic! Ten had this kind of nerdy delight in the universe -- I loved when he'd slip his glasses on to examine something new.  Eleven was pure childlike curiosity and fun, a trickster, flinging himself through the world like a 4-year-old. But for two seasons, Twelve has been Grumpy Eyebrows and not at all fun to watch.  Finally, with Bill, he seems to be enjoying himself. I'm looking forward to seeing what type of joy he will end up embodying.  Peter Capaldi has a lovely smile, and it was liberally deployed in this episode. 

[AudienceofOne]

I really enjoyed that episode. It was loads of fun. Bill's delight in the fair was done perfectly. I particularly loved the way the exploitation of the creature by the Lord mirrored the same exploitation of the natural world by the ruling class in this era and the way that was married to racism and classism. Setting this story in this time period and London location was perfect. This reminded me of a ninth doctor story actually and that remains my favourite new era Who.

[jhlipton]

On 4/29/2017 at 11:09 PM, KirkB said:

While I wouldn't want to see the same plot every week, I like episodes where the monster isn't really a monster. Sure, it killed people, but it didn't seem to take any particular pleasure in of it. It seemed to just be an animal.

The MotW wasn't the fishie.  It was the racist murderer.

[jhlipton]

I've created a Thread for all Seasons so we can discuss the episode in the episode thread. Can we please have the Clara / Rose / River Song discussions there?

I'm not sure who the mod for this forum is...