Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[GirlvsTV]

And this is where I think FS is going to have to give a little to make the reconciliation work. She has to come to terms with the fact that OQ is not perfect and is prone to make emotionally questionable decisions. He is and will hopefully get better and fully mature emotionally. However, that day is not today and most likely not tomorrow. So she needs to look into herself and ask herself does she love him enough to be his partner and help him through this journey as a friend, as a lover/partner or as nothing. It's really up to her and how much she is willing to give and perhaps bend her ideals of what and who OQ should be at this time.

But this is exactly what she just did - and her answer was that this behavior was unacceptable to her in her chosen spouse so she broke it off. She says at the end of, "Broken Hearts," that she understands he will always have this urge to respond to big problems by shutting people out and keeping secrets, that this is part of who he is. But Felicity does not want to marry someone who will not be a true partner to her in life, so the only person who needs to do any work here is Oliver. He needs to prove he can be that kind of partner. Felicity isn't willing to bend or give when it comes to this, she took her stand when she gave him the ring back - twice.

[AyChihuahua]

But this is exactly what she just did - and her answer was that this behavior was unacceptable to her in her chosen spouse so she broke it off. She says at the end of, "Broken Hearts," that she understands he will always have this urge to respond to big problems by shutting people out and keeping secrets, that this is part of who he is. But Felicity does not want to marry someone who will not be a true partner to her in life, so the only person who needs to do any work here is Oliver. He needs to prove he can be that kind of partner. Felicity isn't willing to bend or give when it comes to this, she took her stand when she gave him the ring back - twice.

I completely cannot understand why people aren't getting this. I mean fundamentally, she's not the one who screwed up, so she's not the one who needs to fix it. But additionally, yeah, she DID look within herself to decide whether his behavior is something she's willing to accept/deal with in a spouse, and her answer could not have been more clear: NO!

 

So she's made her position clear, which means if HE wants to be with HER, HE is going to have to change. If his answer to the first part is that he doesn't to be with her enough to change, then there ya go...it's over.  But she made it clear, REPEATEDLY, that she is NOT WILLING TO ACCEPT THIS BEHAVIOR. Therefore, she dumped him. Clearly, kindly, and DEFINITIVELY.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, this idea that Felicity is gonna have to accept that Oliver's first instinct is always gonna be lone-wolfing his way out of emotional problems is pretty much THE OPPOSITE of what happened in the episode. She decided that she doesn't accept it. This is her line in the sand. And because this isn't real life, this is a constructed romance arc within a narrative, the set up here is that Oliver will have to change his ways. Tbh, this couldn't be more clear to me.

And Felicity will have to make a choice too, but that choice isn't to accept Oliver might always be emotionally stunted. Her issue to solve is trust. She's gonna have to learn to *trust* that Oliver isn't ever gonna shut her out of his life again.

Edited March 25, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think Felicity right now is heartbroken so I don't think her stance on their relationship, that now is very clear, will necessarily be the same in the future. Remember the "I don't want to be a woman that you love." last year?

She said she doesn't believe they can have it all: their night job and each other, because until Oliver is the GA he will find himself in difficult situations and he will choose to lie. I understand her reasoning because that's what Oliver has been doing since he came back so he will have to convince her that they can indeed have it all.

She will never know for sure what is going to happen in the next months or years and Oliver can't prove it to her beyond reasonable doubts, it's simply impossible. What he can do is show her he is determined to be the partner she wants and deserves and she will have to take a leap of faith if she wants to be with him. And I have no doubts she wants it because she is in love with him and she is also a strong and brave enough woman to fight for what makes her happy.

So he screwed up but since he is only human there's only so much he can do. At that point she will have to ask herself if taking the risk is worthy, not now that she just had her heart broken.

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, this idea that Felicity is gonna have to accept that Oliver's first instinct is always gonna be lone-wolfing his way out of emotional problems is pretty much THE OPPOSITE of what happened in the episode. She decided that she doesn't accept it. This is her line in the sand. And because this isn't real life, this is a constructed romance arc within a narrative, the set up here is that Oliver will have to change his ways. Tbh, this couldn't be more clear to me.

And Felicity will have to make a choice too, but that choice isn't to accept Oliver might always be emotionally stunted. Her issue to solve is trust. She's gonna have to learn to *trust* that Oliver isn't ever gonna shut her out of his life again.

I feel pretty comfortable that he is going to change (bc she's made her position so entirely perfectly crystal clear I don't get how anyone can't see it, including Oliver), he'll make some big grand gesture letting her know that he has, and then she's going to take a leap of faith. Then this issue will never arise again bc pretty much everyone HATED it.

 

I forgot, something I liked about the last episode, and didn't expect, was that Oliver actually admitted he lied. (Btw, I think there's been some confusion re what Digg knows...but Oliver said to Digg that Felicity dumped him because Oliver "lied" about having a son and Digg wasn't surprised, so he knows about the lying, and still hasn't said jack shit to Felicity to support her. Really disappointed in that.) And in the end Oliver said "no more lies." I'm actually pretty happy about that.

 

Also, bw that and the fact that in Taken he said she's right, that he should have told her, which alludes to a scene in which he actually tells her he should have told her, I'm going to consider it as close enough to an apology to let that go. I would have liked a full-throated onscreen "I am sorry for lying to you for months, and for not including you in these decisions that affect your life, too," but I can deal with what we got.

Edited March 25, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[looptab]

What is the confusion about what Dig knows?

I agree that it's Oliver who has to fix it. But I don't know if I should be worried that the writers will have Felicity backtrack on this?

[AyChihuahua]

What is the confusion about what Dig knows?

I agree that it's Oliver who has to fix it. But I don't know if I should be worried that the writers will have Felicity backtrack on this?

I think whether Digg knows that Oliver lied and made decisions without Felicity, v. whether Digg thought Felicity dumped Oliver JUST because of the kid. Because his "She'll come around," TWICE, is super-casual and makes it seem like no big. When we know it is a big, and the Diggle from 4.1 would understand why it'd be a big.

 

I personally don't think they will have Felicity backtrack. I think if they were going to do that, they would have made the breakup a lot more ambiguous. Also, dtissagirl knows a lot about narrative purpose, and yeah, the narrative purpose of all this hell is for Oliver to change. So for once, actual human emotional reactions and the show's narrative mesh.

 

And for that, say hallelujah! It may never happen again.

Edited March 25, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[tangerine95]

I don't think they'll backtrack. I think they set up pretty clearly she won't be in a relationship where she might get lied to and excluded so its up to Oliver to prove he can be the partner she needs. I always thought there was no point in the whole baby mama drama unless Oliver is changed by it and learns not to lie and to totally let her in. They were weird with the damage control after the storyline and Oliver got so much hate but I never thought the point would be Felicity accepts lying is who he is and is fine to put up with that. It just wouldn't fit with Oliver being on a hero journey imo.

[dtissagirl]

I don't know how to look at stories without thinking about them AS stories. Imo there's no such thing as "this is who Oliver is and always will be" because Oliver is a fictional character that can be written to counteract that "always" at any given moment. It's as simple as that for me. As a viewer, I can choose whether to accept where the story takes him or not, but I can't accept "always" in a fluid, open-ended serialized narrative.

 

Oliver's hero journey is tied to his romantic arc. His instinct to shut people off is not just a character trait -- it's also a narrative device, a step in his journey that he needs to conquer. His internal conflict is being challenged by the narrative right now, and the way they set it up was Felicity breaking up with him.

 

I mean, they actually wrote him into a corner, because if the outcome of this arc is "oh well, this is who Oliver is and he'll always revert to secret and lies no matter what happens, or what challenges him to stop being like that", then he and Felicity never get back together, Oliver doesn't change, and this step in his hero's journey is never conquered, thus making the overall journey a failure.

[GirlvsTV]

I agree that it's Oliver who has to fix it. But I don't know if I should be worried that the writers will have Felicity backtrack on this?

I'd honestly be surprised if we got to the end of the season and the writers actually remembered the reasoning behind the break-up. Continuity is not their strong point.

In the finale Oliver will probably give (yet another) speech about the importance of team work and Felicity will forgive him.

Then we'll be like: But that's not really why they broke up . . ?

And the writers will be like: *shrug* Oh, who can even remember what happened 6 eps ago? This is close enough right? Cause we just reworked Oliver's speech to the Team from the season 3 finale. People seemed to like it okay.

[looptab]

Yeah, that's my issue, haha. I can see the story pattern and where it is supposed to go, but then again I also remember season 1 Laurel, so I am a little doubtful.:)

Edited March 25, 2016 by looptab

[AyChihuahua]

I think something will happen that he would in the past have shut her out from, and he won't. It'll have to be something big, but I have no idea what, specifically. I think it'll only be a scene or two, but I'll go with it, as long as they never pull this lying/keeping secrets/excluding her crap EVER EVER AGAIN.

[quarks]

I think the problem I have is not Felicity breaking up with him, exactly, or even walking out on Team Arrow. Felicity has walked out on Oliver before - right after she joined Team Arrow in 115; briefly during 210 when Oliver was being a jerk; in 301 and 302 when he was pulling his "I can't be me and the Arrow" stuff; in 307 when she went back to her date; in 312 when he teamed up with Malcolm. So that's in character. And I think her "the team will be fine without me" has been foreshadowed before when she's questioned her place on the team or if she's really needed. Those have always been my least favorite episodes on the show, but there is precedent for it.

 

But against that, she's also always been the person who tells Oliver to find another way - that's almost her role on the show, along with Diggle. So although I get where she's coming from here, and I'd be more than ticked if my partner hadn't told me about some secret child because the kid's mother said not to, the failure to talk about this seems somehow un-Felicity - even though she's done it before. Largely because of what she said at the end, that she didn't think he could change. Which - ok, maybe, except that Felicity has spent the last four seasons watching him change.  She's watched him stop killing. She's watched him slowly open up to people. She's seen him finally change from brooding to happy.

 

So what's getting me isn't Felicity walking out, but Felicity's "you can't change" thing. And again, I get this - Oliver's been lying to her for years, and this one follows up last year's rather large lie about joining the LoA.  It's not an unreasonable thought. At the same time, though, I kinda miss Felicity challenging Oliver to change, and I wish that had been the route here.  I'm also not happy that so far no one has pointed out to Oliver that by keeping his son secret even after finding out that Malcolm knew, he - Oliver - was putting William into more danger, not less.

 

And what really doesn't help is that - huge huge lie and failure to stay with her at the hospital apart - the rest of their relationship has generally been cute to excellent. They inspired each other to be superheroes. He's no longer a killer partly because of her; she's no longer just an IT girl partly because of him. She bankrolls Team Arrow. He unhesitatingly stayed with her after she was paralyzed and went to physical therapy sessions with her. She supported his mayoral campaign. He makes lunch for her. She remembers all the sappy moments. They both seem to really like candles from Pier One.

 

The only thing that really has split them up is this Samantha storyline, a storyline that is forcing everyone to either act out of character (Thea, with suddenly switching roles and defending lying to people close to you) or completely incomprehensibly (I still have no idea why Samantha's first response wasn't "You want to see him? Fine. Hire a lawyer").  Arrow's typical mid-season "Uh, why are any of the characters doing this?" I realize. 

[looptab]

This is just an assumption, and I don't even know if I totally believe this myself, but I think this time they wanted Oliver to "find another way" by himself. Without her prompting. Sure, at the end of the day it will still be because of her, but he will take the decision to act and change. (I think).

-Now watch his big change being prompted by a pep talk by someone else.

 

However I do agree that aside from the BMD they seemed to be damn perfect. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by looptab

[Password]

Yeah I mean Felicity's always been an instigator for change when Oliver does numpty things (or THINKS of doing them) so perhaps the writers need Oliver to stand on his own feet without her prompting.

Personally, I didn't have a problem with Oliver needing to speak to others to clear his mind because way back when instead of communicating to Laurel that he doesn't want to move in with her, he slept with Sara. It's not a weakness leaning on people so...eh we'll see.

[tv echo]

Maybe I'm just tired, but now I'm confused.  Wasn't the whole lesson of S3 that Oliver needed to let other people (his team mates) help him and to share the burden?  Now the S4 lesson is that he has to figure things out on his own again?

Edited March 25, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

That's not what I said. I'm talking about how and why he works on himself, not his outlook and approach to life.

[tv echo]

Ah, got it.

Edited March 25, 2016 by tv echo

[Sasha]

I think something will happen that he would in the past have shut her out from, and he won't. It'll have to be something big, but I have no idea what, specifically. I think it'll only be a scene or two, but I'll go with it, as long as they never pull this lying/keeping secrets/excluding her crap EVER EVER AGAIN.

I think the person in the grave, with their last dying breath, will beg Felicity and Oliver to forgive and forget. Their death will only having meaning if true love wins. Nine months later we can have an Olicity baby named after? Ha!

[dtissagirl]

This is just an assumption, and I don't even know if I totally believe this myself, but I think this time they wanted Oliver to "find another way" by himself. Without her prompting. Sure, at the end of the day it will still be because of her, but he will take the decision to act and change. (I think).

-Now watch his big change being prompted by a pep talk by someone else.

 

However I do agree that aside from the BMD they seemed to be damn perfect. 

 

I think this is the right assumption, but I also think there's something a little bit hilarious going on in the construction of this storyline of doom: they went out of their way to create one single conflict between O/F. I mean, goodness gracious, they made sure it's ONLY ONE. Everything else between them works perfectly. Their relationship this season was shown to be almost completely ideal, not just in terms of them being such a healthy couple, but also ideal within a superhero story. Except for this one thing.

 

It's like they went surgical strike onto a vault of romance-disrupting-tropes, and pinpointed this one with laser precision. And then they went about actually writing the story in the most convoluted way ever -- because Guggenheim -- but I'm pretty sure the fact that there's just ONE CONFLICT is on purpose. This is something that can be solved in very few narrative beats. Felicity doesn't trust Oliver right now. Oliver does something in the near future that displays he's willing to share instead of hide. Felicity realizes he's changed [or is willing to change], and takes the leap of faith of trusting him again. Presto, make-out.

[AyChihuahua]

Personally I'd pick wall sex v. making out, but I can live with either.

[SleepDeprived]

Personally I'd pick wall sex v. making out, but I can live with either

 

[Sakura12]

Popular gifs exist? Lol. 

[SleepDeprived]

^ Yes, they do! But I think mostly Mary Cherry ones. 'Cause she's the best. :)

[Genki]

I think it was interesting that during 4.15 Oliver thought the break up was over the lying and didn't quite get that it was over not trusting her fully as a partner. I think this adds a bit of subtlety into the storyline. 

 

I don't think Felicity was wrong to break up with Oliver and he definitely needs to change, but I do think she will be resistant to seeing the change and trusting the change in Oliver. Felicity just had the "People don't change" lesson drummed into her from her encounter with her Dad and even though she has seen Oliver change over the years, they obviously haven't resolved some of the issues form S3. 

 

 

I hope they resolve that, but it is hard, how are they going to show Oliver trusting and relying on Felicity when they are broken up and she is not on Team Arrow without it seeming like Oliver isn't respecting her wishes? Felicity will need to possibly move form a position of "You can't change" to one of "I need to trust that you can change and will act differently from now on".

 

So I think both will have to change in someway to allow a reconciliation. 

 

ETA: Mery Cherry is the best.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Genki

[AyChihuahua]

I hope they resolve that, but it is hard, how are they going to show Oliver trusting and relying on Felicity when they are broken up and she is not on Team Arrow without it seeming like Oliver isn't respecting her wishes? Felicity will need to possibly move form a position of "You can't change" to one of "I need to trust that you can change and will act differently from now on".

She won't be off for Team Arrow for long, though. She'll come back for sure to help catch/kill whoever kills whoever's in the grave, so he'll soon have plenty of opportunity to show her how much he's changed.

[statsgirl]

I think whether Digg knows that Oliver lied and made decisions without Felicity, v. whether Digg thought Felicity dumped Oliver JUST because of the kid. Because his "She'll come around," TWICE, is super-casual and makes it seem like no big. When we know it is a big, and the Diggle from 4.1 would understand why it'd be a big.

Diggle left the team in s1 when Oliver failed to support him over the Deadshot trap.  And then shut Oliver out for months over the lack of trust with the Al Sa-him thing and Lyla kidnapping.

 

Like Thea, Diggle does a 180 to support this stupid storyline.

[Password]

Did anyone else get Lauriver flashbacks when Oliver said "I can change" to Felicity?

I can soooooo see Ollie cheating or lying to Laurel, her finding out , dumping him and he begging her to take him back and saying "I won't do it again".

Only this time, Felicity don't play.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Password

[statsgirl]

Yeah, Oliver probably apologized to Laurel a lot and told her he would change so she would take him back, and then didn't.

This is why Felicity needs to make it stick.

[Password]

If Felicity decides to never get back together with Oliver again I wouldn't blame her.

If the writers really decide to work Oliver's problems out, realistically Felicity probably wouldn't take him back for quite a while. The trust would have to be rebuilt and that would take time.

So for now they're never ever ever getting back together *smiles gleefully*

[looptab]

As painful as that scene was, I cheered when Felicity stood her ground. He was all smile and eyes and one minute away to jump on the salmon ladder, so sure he could talk her out of it..But no! Take that!

[Password]

That was probably Felicity's best power move. He's all happy because she said she loves him with everything in her and then BOOM.

Hahahaha haha.

[EmilyBettFan]

LOL I'm crying and laughing hysterically. Don't do this to me guys!

[theacostov]

Did anyone else get Lauriver flashbacks when Oliver said "I can change" to Felicity?

I can soooooo see Ollie cheating or lying to Laurel, her finding out , dumping him and he begging her to take him back and saying "I won't do it again".

Only this time, Felicity don't play.

I think this is what's bothering me with this story. It seems like it was designed with Lauriver in mind. (Obviously the BMD was, but so is this idea that Oliver is a terminal liar and will never change). I feel like Oliver was always going to have this challenge in season 4 but it just doesn't work that well with Olicity.

Whereas Oliver would lie to Laurel about basically everything, we've seen that the two people he trusts the most and has let in the most are Felicity and Diggle. I mean he could barely properly lie to her when he first met her!

There was no reason that once Thea and Malcolm found out about William why he wouldn't tell Felicity. No reason has been given, it makes no sense. Similarly he talked to Diggle and Vixen about sending William away. Why wouldn't he talk to Felicity? It's not like he hasn't asked her advice about tough decisions in the past. E.g. infiltrating HIVE earlier in the season. All of a sudden Oliver is keeping stuff just from Felicity when that has not been the case before (the whole LOA plan was kept from everyone) and there's really no reason that's been given except to force drama. None of this seems natural and therefore I can't enjoy it and be invested in it.

If Laurel was Felicity and Oliver had lied to her about William because he cheated and didn't want to hurt her/lose her, all of this would make a million times more sense and push Oliver to become better. Plus if Laurel broke up with him it would've shown that unlike past her, she's no longer willing to wait and see if he's changed, hence growth for her too.

[tv echo]

After reading some media reviews, I wanted to express my thoughts on two things - why Felicity broke up with Oliver when she knew what he was like going into the relationship, and why Felicity had to quit Team Arrow...

 

First, I think that Felicity's expectations of Oliver changed from last season because her relationship and experiences with him changed.  One's tolerance for someone keeping secrets from you varies depending on the nature of your relationship with that person (how close are they to you?) and the type of secret (white lie or life-changing info?). Before, even though they loved each other, Felicity's relationship with Oliver was still that of close friend and crime fighting partner.  This season, her relationship with him was that of fiance/would-be spouse.  She deserved more trust and honesty.  I'm sure that Diggle & Lyla share secrets with each other that Diggle would not tell Oliver.  In addition, the nature of Oliver's secret was not a white lie or something necessary in order to save lives. (And no, I don't think it was necessary to keep William safe.) Even the best relationships have secrets, even if it's something as minor as a surprise birthday party. Oliver's son was not a little secret.  As others have said, he would've married her without telling her that she was becoming a stepmother (something with emotional, legal and financial ramifications), with someone else important being in their lives for the rest of their lives.

 

The motive is also important.  Last season, she forgave Oliver for keeping secret from her his plotting with Malcolm because, wrong-headed as he was, Oliver was trying to save first Thea and then Starling City.  This season, although Oliver (and MG) said that he had to keep his son secret from even her in order to see his son and protect his son, she knows full well that that's not the truth. She now knows him better than anyone else on earth. He could've told her in confidence and, unless Samantha was omnipotent or psychic, she would never know that he told Felicity.  Instead, Oliver chose to be honest with Samantha and deceitful with Felicity, rather than vice versa.  Felicity knows the real reason that he kept William a secret from her is because he still doesn't fully trust her or anyone - and unless he changes, he never will - and that is not the basis for a satisfying intimate relationship, let alone a marriage.  Yes, she knows that he's a work in progress, but she thought they were beyond this level of major secret-keeping, after their shared experiences of the past 10 months, and maybe she thinks he's hit a wall in terms of what he's willing or able to change.  She just knows that if she gives him a pass on this, it will happen again - and again.

 

Second, I think that Felicity had to quit the team because, again, her experiences and relationship with Oliver had changed. Yes, she wants to be part of the team's mission and has never let her relationship with Oliver stop her before.  However, last season when she stayed on the team despite the tension with Oliver, they had not progressed beyond a kiss.  And when she helped the team during the summer hiatus, she was in sync with Oliver and the rest of the team.  Now, she's spent the past 10 months living and sleeping with Oliver on a daily basis.  And she's still in love with him.  I would think it would be incredibly painful to continue spending nights in the Arrowcave when she's no longer 'with him'.  I mean, she's used to touching him whenever she wants. Also, I think she's afraid that she would be too easily tempted into just giving in and going back to him, with nothing changing, if she was exposed to his full-on heart eyes and charm on a daily basis.

 

I don't think she's abandoned the team completely.  Presumably she's still funding the team and still owns the building that the Arrowcave is housed in.  Likely, she'll still be available to help them when needed - like when she remotely helped them when she was paralyzed and recovering at home.  If any of them calls her for help, I'm sure she'll help.  She just doesn't want to spend night after night in the Arrowcave with Oliver right now.

Edited March 26, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

To add to your first statement, I think Felicity's expectations changed because of Oliver's behavior at the end of S3 through 407.

When Oliver asked her to leave with him in 323 he said he wanted to find out who he really is without being the Arrow, The Hood or even Oliver Queen CEO. He wanted to find that person with her and he grew over the summer became more open talked about his past/issues/emotions.

I can see how that would play into Felicity's decision to call it quits. After everything he went through in S3, after saying he wanted to grow/change/figure out who he was meant to be, as soon as things got tough Oliver went back to his old ways of lying/keeping secrets and making decisions/going it alone.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Sasha]

It's a shame the writng is so poor that the audience ended up taking sides. What have they gained? Neither character comes out ahead. It tarnished both of them and their relationship. I just don't think the writers are talented enough to bring them back together in a satisfying way. I do want them back together but in my opinion Oliver broke Felicity's heart. It's really hard to come back from that. It leaves a nasty scar. They can try to write some grand gesture and all is forgiven but was it worth it? Oliver suffered, Felicity suffered and the audience suffered. Where's the pay off? For fucks sake it is just so stupid!

They are really lucky SA has become an expert with the heart eyes and EBR is just so damn perfect. At least we have those two to sell whatever crap the writers come up with.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Sasha

[tarotx]

I guess I've just read a lot of romantic novels and watched many romantic movies so this Olicity angst is nothing. The reasoning because of BMD is stupid but everything else has been good(aside from going 0-100 during the cross over). I think it has to be the fear that tptb won't get them back together? Is that because of Laurelver? They didn't work for many reasons and not just the fighting. Their cheating back story, their relationships with Tommy, Stephen and Katie doing hate together well but there always being a tension between the two when it's not suposed to be there.. A part of me thinks Katie was resentful that the show went from a trio lead to a single lead and then she kept losing things so the bitterness didn't leave for most of her run on the show. And then bringing Sara back and Oliver and not just Ollie Sister swapping. So yeah not even close to what's happening with Olicity.

Arrow does need to bring back hope. It does make a huge difference for the audience to enjoy the journey.

It is hard to see the light of the show angry and a bit bitter but that's the point. She has lost her hope with everything that has happened during the course of the show and season. Oliver must find a way to help her see that this was just a bump in his recovery and not in the inability to change.

The hero's journey is Oliver's so the show centers around what he needs to become a real boy but the emotional atmosphere that the fans are feeling is centered around How Felicity feels. It's why a chunk of people either ache along side her or just wants her to get over it fast. My feelings is wait it out. Each season has it's own ups and downs and how it closes does really matter.

Edited March 26, 2016 by tarotx

[Guest]

I think in comparison to other shows, this Olicity angst is nothing. Some shows take 5 years to have their main couple even kiss or go on a date and even then it's dragged out before they properly get together. I think of all the crap Booth and Brennan went through over on Bones. Yikes. Messy and tiresome to the point where I gave up long ago. 

 

But with Arrow/Olicity they haven't really messed around all that long. Despite the back and forth last year, they've put them together in a big committed way, relatively quickly, IMO. They weren't just dating. They went all in. So contriving to keep them apart after all that is just annoying at this point, especially when it's bad writing and twisting the characters to fit the plot. We've seen that they work as a couple on every single level and then this? Yawn.

 

I really hope that once they get back together, they keep them together and just get on with it. 

[AyChihuahua]

To quote dtissagirl, other than an occasional foray into tvline to make fun of Oliver during the height of his stupidity, I curate my fan experience. ANYONE who says she didn't have the right to know he had a kid, or she's emotionally abusive or whatever, is not someone whose opinion I in any way value. So I just avoid that discussion, bc it is, simply, not worth my time. Keeps me from raging and lets me enjoy Felicity emotional badassness, which is, LBR, fricking AWESOME.

 

None of this rather misogynistic outcry will result in Felicity being off the show or Olicity being killed or whatever. I kind of think their relationship will be less dramatic next season, at least in part bc of the actual ratings being affected this year and in general every reviewer hating it. 

 

Also, I think he won't pull this crap again, so overall, while I hate the BM storyline with the fire of a thousand suns, it's almost over, and it might have a positive outcome, and I can live with that.

[looptab]

I didn't read all the reviews for this episode..what's the general outcome?

[Chaser]

Olicity Drama Bad. Felicity emotional, no fun.

[Guest]

I didn't read all the reviews for this episode..what's the general outcome?

 

Pretty much what @Chaser said. Olicity drama is too much and makes it a soap opera. There's too much focus on the romance. Felicity is unreasonable and was a better character when she was happier and quirky. Not all reviews are like that, some did support Felicity leaving, but most weren't impressed. I did see praise for SA and EBR's performances though.

[looptab]

Oh well. You know, I don't even care. I think this episode was needed, after the mess that preceeded it. And I also think the placement after a hiatus and use of newbies wasn't casual - they knew a ratings drop was very likely, so they put in an episode somewhat expendable in terms of the overall plot, but very necessary for the characters.

Edited March 26, 2016 by looptab

[Chaser]

Olicity has gotten a lot of praise this year. It's only when Olicity are at odds that critics come out complaining about the relationship. Then its all over-blown drama from them. IT'S RUINING THE SHOW, LOOK WHAT IT DID TO FELICITY, OLIVER'S A WIMP, BLAH BLAH BLAH.

 

I appreciate reviewers looking at weakness and positive and digging into the episodes as a whole, but the way some of these guys swing is crazy and the superficial way they characters are looked at makes me roll my eyes. 

 

ETA: Clearly not all critics. Some are very consistent.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Chaser

[dtissagirl]

Oh well. You know, I don't even care. I think this episode was needed, after the mess that preceeded it. And I also think the placement after a hiatus and use of newbies wasn't casual - they knew a ratings drop was very likely, so they put in an episode somewhat expendable in terms of the overall plot, but very necessary for the characters.

Lol, yeah. From a writing pov, this episode was pretty much a hazing -- main couple breaks up in last episode of Sweeps, the show goes into a month long hiatus, and the poor newbie writers have to deal with a fake wedding that's gonna be wthe ~last attempt~ of reconciliation, but it will fail because the main couple can't get together in a rando episode in March.

[looptab]

Poor newbies :) They passed for me, for what it's worth - aside from Diggle's 'she'll come around' I have no complaints. The court stuff was a mess, but no one cares about Laurel, why should they? :D

[statsgirl]

I was thinking yesterday that I'm so glad that they show is not on CBS. On shows like NCIS and Criminal Minds, they will tease a couple for years (8 in the case of Tony and Ziva) and never put them together even when one of the characters leaves the show. So yay for Arrow putting Oliver and Felicity together at the end of season 3, instead of waiting seven seasons and then only putting them together because she got pregnant. Or like Sleepy Hollow, which works primarily on the chemistry of the leads and tanked in s2 when they wrote against it, so of course at the end of s3 they put them into new relationships with other characters.

 

I think this is what's bothering me with this story. It seems like it was designed with Lauriver in mind. (Obviously the BMD was, but so is this idea that Oliver is a terminal liar and will never change). I feel like Oliver was always going to have this challenge in season 4 but it just doesn't work that well with Olicity.

Whereas Oliver would lie to Laurel about basically everything, we've seen that the two people he trusts the most and has let in the most are Felicity and Diggle. I mean he could barely properly lie to her when he first met her!

It does seem like a Laurel/Oliver fit with the lie being about William, but I think if it were O/L, it would be about his repeated cheating and their yo-yo relationship. With Felicity, it's about his lack of trust in her that he keeps secrets like these even after all their time together.

Edited March 26, 2016 by statsgirl

[tarotx]

Yeah but Oliver didn't tell Laurel about being the Arrow. And still he didn't tell her about Thea's injury and the Lazarus pit. He didn't tell her about joining the LOA. Laurelver also has the trust and secret keeping. So yes I believe this BMD complete with the secret keeping and lies was something they planned in their 5 year plan. Trust and secret keeping along with keeping loved ones safe is the superhero go to angst. It just doesn't fit Olicity as well.

Edited March 26, 2016 by tarotx

[dtissagirl]

My favorite what if with Arrow isn't imagining if this storyline would work better with O/L, but imagining what if they didn't waste screentime on the flashbacks, and used that extra script space to write narrative conflict like normal writers -- ones who wouldn't have to worry about ending present time scenes in a certain way because they have to allow for transition onto dead empty space, I mean, flashbacks.