“Bitch” Vs. “Jerk”: Where We Discuss Who The Writers Screwed This Week/Season/Ever

[catrox14]

UGH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!.

That means his wife will never stop writing. Fuck.

21 minutes ago, SueB said:

Dabb AND Singer are named co-showrunners. 

This pisses me off.  Singer is the source of some of worst decisions and sponsors the neopotism duo.  I'm hoping the only reason Singer's name is on the list is because the studio execs wanted a senior involved.

[catrox14]

Okay I swear to gods I remember reading something that said Jensen was on board as long as Carver was on board. I think he felt that Carver had a story to tell and when that was it, he would go when Carver did. Does anyone else remember this? Did I just conflate things? Am I totally confused?

[SueB]

33 minutes ago, Binns said:

Ah. I thought Charlie was Carver. Still mad at him legitimately for character assassination of Sam. 

It was both  

[catrox14]

Soo another writer is leaving Jenny Klein is going to work on Jessica Jones.

[DittyDotDot]

Sounds like she's landing somewhere she wants to be, so good luck to her. 

This is a good thing, though, right? This means new blood and that Dabb will get to staff his own room some and hopefully will shake things up in the writers room. This could all end horribly, or be the best thing to happen on the show in a long while. I'm kinda interested in seeing the replacements.

[Wynne88]

Maybe, but only if the new writers bother to watch and pay attention to what has come before season 12.  I wish I had more confidence.  

[DittyDotDot]

That's why I said it could be a disaster...I'm hopeful right now, though.

[catrox14]

I dunno. I have real mixed feelings about Dabb's writing( he gave us Bloodlines FFS which IMO was really heavily influenced by the network..JMO no real facts but it felt so different from SPN). I have worries about Singer being an EP again with his wife still on the writing staff. 

They may not hire more replacements if they want to cut costs. And with Supergirl coming to the CW along with Calista Flockhart's likely HUGE salary that's going to hit other shows as well. And I'm thinking SPN will be a target for those cuts or they will proactively reduce their budget.

Right now, there is

Dabb (he'll probably write less being the showrunner)
Robert Berens
Buck-Lemming
Nancy Won
Eric Carmelo and Nichole Snyder(are they still with the show?) 
John Bring

My worst nightmare is that B-L get more episodes. 

[Aeryn13]

Jenny Klein is leaving? Well, can`t say I feel bad about this. I tended to hate her episodes. Their writer pool is shrinking, though.

Quote

They may not hire more replacements if they want to cut costs. And with Supergirl coming to the CW along with Calista Flockhart's likely HUGE salary that's going to hit other shows as well. And I'm thinking SPN will be a target for those cuts or they will proactively reduce their budget.

CW Upfronts are the only interesting ones this year. Not sure if and by how much SPN will be affected. One way would be to decrease episode order - which would in turn also solve the problem of having less writers - but I kinda doubt it. On the other hand, they are probably not gonna hit their golden goose Greg Berlanti either and his shows will likely make half of the fall schedule. Man, my poor Originals is gonna get it, I just know it. Sigh.

I think B&L will write roughly the same amount of episodes, they are already at 3-4 a year, I doubt it`s gonna get higher.  

[DittyDotDot]

I'm not worried about the CW cutting SPN's budget because of Supergirl. Seems like they wouldn't have taken it on if they couldn't sustain the costs of it without cutting their other shows. But, business folks do a whole bunch of things I think are crazy, so who knows...

I don't know if they'll hire a replacement for Jenny Klein--she usually only does a couple episodes a season compared to the other writers' 3-4 episodes--but with both Robbie and Jenny both leaving and Dabb probably only writing two episodes now, that's about 8 episodes to spread out among the remaining writers. So I expect them to hire at least one person to fill to fill in the gap here.

Edited May 17, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

57 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I'm not worried about the CW cutting SPN's budget because of Supergirl. Seems like they wouldn't have taken it on if they couldn't sustain the costs of it without cutting their other shows. But, business folks do a whole bunch of things I think are crazy, so who knows...

IMO SPN, TVD/Originals etc will get hit.

They haven't announced how many episodes for each show. They could easily cut episode orders. Supergirl will repurpose the sets of Arrow, The Flash and LoT no doubt.

The CW is also taking on Frequency, Riverdale and No Tomorrow . So now there is :

Arrow
SPN
Flash
LoT
Supergirl
Reign
Beauty and the Beast
Jane the Virgin
Crazy Ex Girlfriend
Frequency
Riverdale
No Tomorrow
Vampire Diaries
The Originals
 

It's going to be interesting what they do with SPN. It's the redheaded stepchild. Pedowitz might personally love it as does Peter Roth but that's all lip service. They don't spend money to promote it which is why they do their own promotions. They barely acknowledge it's existence in PR as it is now.  We shall see.

[DittyDotDot]

Personally, I understand why they don't spend money promoting Supernatural. The show performs without their throwing money at marketing it. Granted, as a fan of the show, I'd love to see them pay it more attention, but from a business standpoint, I get why they don't.

[Aeryn13]

Well, some of these shows will be relegated to mid-Season or straight out summer programming but I can`t see SPN being one of them. I do expect a full Season order and a slot in the usual fall schedule. It`s too dependable a performer, no matter the night or the lead-in. Budget-cuts, now those could be possible.

Maybe they can scale back from this 23 episode thing they`ve got going, 22 is plenty, in fact 20 is plenty. They could juggle 20 with the existing writers. Even Dabb could do Premiere, Finale and mid-Season Finale or something.

The one show they will not touch in favour of Supergirl is Flash. Anything else might be fair game.  

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

The one show they will not touch in favour of Supergirl is Flash. Anything else might be fair game.  

Yeah, I agree with this. And as Arrow girl that pisses me off to no end.

[Aeryn13]

If it`s any consolation, I`m pretty sure Arrow is the second-safest show. 

And I do understand why Flash would get preferential treatment. It brings their highest ratings and very good buzz among comic book fans. It would be foolish to not nourish that by all means necessary. Same as I do understand not pumping money into promotion for SPN. Other shows simply need it more. 

[DittyDotDot]

Did they not already order 23 episodes for Supernatural? For some reason I thought that was part of the renewal announcement, but I'd have to look it up to be sure.

Edited May 17, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

Just now, DittyDotDot said:

Did they not already order 23 episodes? For some reason I thought that was part of the renewal announcement, but I'd have to look it up to be sure.

Even if they did, with Supergirl moving over they could scale that back. Like Aeryn said, Supergirl and the Flash will trump anything else on the network.

8 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

If it`s any consolation, I`m pretty sure Arrow is the second-safest show. 

And I do understand why Flash would get preferential treatment. It brings their highest ratings and very good buzz among comic book fans. It would be foolish to not nourish that by all means necessary. Same as I do understand not pumping money into promotion for SPN. Other shows simply need it more. 

I'm just bitter. LOL butr I think on some level the budget will help Arrow return to it's roots and be more grounded like it was in s1 and s2 with more organic fights etc. and now they don't have to pay Katie Cassidy from Arrow's budget so YAY

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Did they not already order 23 episodes for Supernatural? For some reason I thought that was part of the renewal announcement, but I'd have to look it up to be sure.

I`m not sure they announced Season orders yet. Though I also think the deck was shuffled anew after the Supergirl deal was made. Reportedly the move to Vancouver saves them around 40 % on their budget. To make it workeable on the CW, I`d say they need an 80 % trim overall so 40 % more to cut corners somewhere else.

Like I said, I wouldn`t mind making the Season shorter. It would do the writers some good to trim fillers that are only there to literally fill one spot in the Season. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by Aeryn13

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, I'm always for shorter, tighter seasons, I just couldn't remember if they had already announced it or not. Which, if they announced it, wouldn't that imply they already did their contract negotiations and would be less likely to change it after the fact?

[FlickChick]

Well, this should be interesting. Fourteen shows to fill ten spots. Makes you wonder how they're going to shuffle that around. 

[DittyDotDot]

I would bet a couple of those shows will be mid-season premieres and/or replacements. Plus, My Crazy Girlfiend, I believe, is a shorter episode run--I'm thinking 15 episodes?

Edited May 17, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

Oh, I'm always for shorter, tighter seasons, I just couldn't remember if they had already announced it or not. Which, if they announced it, wouldn't that imply they already did their contract negotiations and would be less likely to change it after the fact?

From what Jim Michaels has said on Twitter they don't do contracts until like the summer. Jared seemed to back that up when he said he hadn't signed his contract yet at Nerd HQ last July.

The network might announce an intent to renew and then negotiate terms of renewal after the fact. But I don't know for a fact. 

[MysteryGuest]

Well, since SPN is the only CW show I watch, I hope they leave it alone.  New writing blood might be a good thing, but I don't want less episodes.  

[auntvi]

55 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

From what Jim Michaels has said on Twitter they don't do contracts until like the summer. Jared seemed to back that up when he said he hadn't signed his contract yet at Nerd HQ last July.

I forget - did Jared & Jensen sign 2 yr contracts?

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, auntvi said:

I forget - did Jared & Jensen sign 2 yr contracts?

I think they sign year to year but it was said they would be on board with s12 and maybe s13

[DittyDotDot]

31 minutes ago, auntvi said:

I forget - did Jared & Jensen sign 2 yr contracts?

It's varied over the years. They initially were under contract for 5 years. Then signed for S6 and S7 together. Then S8-10. After S10, I'm not sure, there's been no official announcement like they did previously. However, it's been said they have contracts in place through S13 already: http://deadline.com/2016/03/the-cw-supernatural-vampire-diaries-renewed-flash-arrow-crazy-ex-girlfriend-legends-of-tomorrow-1201718699/

I had to go look that article up again, because I just couldn't remember if they announced an episode order. I hate it when I can't remember shit! ;)

[Binns]

Yeah, I think Jared has said they signed through 13 but Jim Michaels said the network only renews year to year. But I don't think SPN is in any danger unless J2 are done. 

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

So who is this new writer, Steve Yockey? I found this"

Steve Yockey is a Los Angeles based writer with work produced throughout the US, Europe, and Asia. His plays Afterlife, Octopus, Large Animal Games, CARTOON, Subculture, Very Still & Hard to See, The Fisherman’s Wife, Wolves, Disassembly, and Niagara Falls & Other Plays are published and available from Samuel French. Additionally, his play Joshua Consumed an Unfortunate Pear was included in the 2015 Humana Festival of New American Plays and the subsequent published anthology. This season, Steve's new play Blackberry Winter will open as a National New Play Network rolling world premiere at Salt Lake Acting Company, Actor's Express, Out of Hand, Capital Stage, New Rep, Forum Theatre, Oregon Contemporary Theatre, and Kitchen Dog. Actor's Express and Kitchen Dog will also join Custom Made Theatre in producing The Thrush & The Woodpecker this season. He was one of two writers selected for the first US/Australia playwright exchange in February 2013, taking his play to NIDA in Sydney, NSW and the National Australian Play Festival in Perth, Western Australia. This exchange was sponsored by NNPN and Playwriting Australia. He is also the recipient of the inaugural LA Weekly Playwriting Award in 2013 for his ghost story Very Still & Hard to See. Steve holds an MFA in Dramatic Writing from NYU's Tisch School of the Arts. He currently contributes issues to the Zenescope comic book series Grimm Tales of Terror and writes for MTV's Scream and CW's Supernatural.

Edited May 18, 2016 by MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND

[catrox14]

Well, that is quite a mixed bag in his resume. The "Scream" factor does little for me.

[DittyDotDot]

Never heard of him. He might be a story editor or a writer's assistant. I really don't know.

[catrox14]

He's definitely a new writer and I don't think he's been with the show in any capacity prior to being hired as a writer.

Quote

 

Steve Yockey

@SleepyPanda76

Playwright, spectacle junkie, @newplaynetwork standard bearer. Writer for #MTVScream and #Supernatural

 

[catrox14]

Another new writer for SPN. Davey Perez

https://davyperez.wordpress.com/2016/05/13/my-second-writing-gig-supernatural/

[Binns]

I don't know whether to be excited or worried for new writers. Do you think they'll watch the previous seasons? There have to be continuity people involved, I would think...hope...

[DittyDotDot]

I've been really thinking about the change in showrunners over the course of the show. Right now, I think S11 will stack up kinda like S6 did for me. S6 was a transition year from Gamble to Kripke and why I believe it was uneven at times. They had a new showrunner who is still working with the old one and you can kinda see both visions of the show throughout the season. Sometimes those visions melded together nicely and sometimes they seemed to be two different shows. But, S7 was more cohesive to me in the end and I think it was probably due to Kripke actually stepping away and Gamble making the show more her own.

The reason S8 is probably so jarring to me is there wasn't a transition period. It probably didn't help that, IMO, Carver had an attitude that the show was broken and he was going to fix it all. I once had an analogy about knock-off Oreos I used to illustrate my point on this, but I can't remember which thread it was I posted that in, so I'll just leave it at that.

Anyhoo, this season, it seems Carver had one foot out the door for most of it, which left Dabb to try to find a way and complete Carver's story, but it wasn't his story, so he didn't always know how to do that. But, there was a sort of handing off the baton at least. So, I'm hoping S12 follows S7's suit and becomes more cohesive and becomes Dabb's own story. Even though I haven't been too enamored with some of Dabb's concepts over the years, I think I can at least respect the effort and stick with the show if he has his own vision to make of it all.

[SueB]

Regarding Jensen and directing S12... I have a couple of PURELY SPECULATIVE thoughts but to me it kinda fits:

First, someone said at JIBCON (not J2) that J2 are essentially uncredited producers.  I agree.  They seem to be consulted on the big moves. Like the new showrunners.  I don't think J2 had anything to do with the writers but I do think got to give a head nod on the new showrunners.  And here's an interesting thought... Jensen seems to have a lot of faith in Bob Singer.  And Bob was in semi-retirement until they pulled him back off the bench.  What if that was Jensen's influence?  What if he felt like Dabb was not enough of an industry insider to get the right directors/right support in place.  Or they needed Bob to go argue with the CW because Dabb is a storyteller and not yet a hands-on showrunner.  I could see Jensen talking Bob into coming off the bench to support Dabb during the transition. I don't remotely think this is a power grab by Singer (I honestly thinks he want to retire), I suspect its a way to giving Andrew a chance to really get his feet under him.    So... given that backstory SPECULATION...

What if Jensen was angling for a mid-season directing job?  The EP3 gig is nothing but pure gravy for the show.  They get two more weeks of Jensen at a cut-rate (I bet his two week pay as a director is about 1/3 of what he makes for his per-episode actor cost), and a really good director who makes production easy.  Great for the show but hell on Jensen's personal time.  And it seems to me that Jensen sort of ended up with a few longer days than everyone else in S11.  He was at least 1-2 days later flying home for BOTH winter and summer hiatus.  So, the show COULD have Jensen as a director but perhaps he's only interested if they make it a mid-season episode and make the episode before he directs Dean-light.  Which would allow him to simultaneously do his director gig and actor thing.  Less time away from home.  BUT that means they have to rely less on Jensen for an episode.  And commit to that now.  Which is not how they work in the writer's room.  They generally tell the story they are going to tell and it's sometimes influenced by the talents of the director (which is why the Vessel was so ambitious), but they don't know enough now to lock it in.  First the directors are locked.  So... my speculation... if he directs it'll be because they've worked out a way for him to direct mid-season.  For example, they could slot in Singer and then try to make a story such that Jensen can step up and do the job, or vice-a-versa, they could slot in Jensen with Singer as backup.  That's tricky, I suspect.  

Bottom line: I think EP3 is his if he wants it and he may not want it.  I suspect we'll know very soon as prep will begin for the first episode filmed in about two weeks.  

If I were to lay odds, I'd say he won't direct this year but they'll work harder next year to make a deal.  

[7kstar]

On 5/20/2016 at 11:43 AM, Binns said:

I don't know whether to be excited or worried for new writers. Do you think they'll watch the previous seasons? There have to be continuity people involved, I would think...hope...

I almost wonder if they write more for the binge watchers.  When you watch it live, the continuity drives you insane but when you binge you miss too much.  People are changing how they watch any TV or such and the industry better change with it.

I'm hoping they've kind of learned from the past.  I'm interested in Carver's new show, not due to him but because I loved the movie.  So I'll probably give it a try.  I don't think Gamble was the worst either.

I think they finally trust J2's and well they get  a lot of freedom.  The biggest issue is that it is back on Thursday against some really popular shows.  So it will be interesting to see how they do.

[DittyDotDot]

3 hours ago, SueB said:

Regarding Jensen and directing S12... I have a couple of PURELY SPECULATIVE thoughts but to me it kinda fits:

First, someone said at JIBCON (not J2) that J2 are essentially uncredited producers.  I agree.  They seem to be consulted on the big moves. Like the new showrunners.  I don't think J2 had anything to do with the writers but I do think got to give a head nod on the new showrunners.  And here's an interesting thought... Jensen seems to have a lot of faith in Bob Singer.  And Bob was in semi-retirement until they pulled him back off the bench.  What if that was Jensen's influence?  What if he felt like Dabb was not enough of an industry insider to get the right directors/right support in place.  Or they needed Bob to go argue with the CW because Dabb is a storyteller and not yet a hands-on showrunner.  I could see Jensen talking Bob into coming off the bench to support Dabb during the transition. I don't remotely think this is a power grab by Singer (I honestly thinks he want to retire), I suspect its a way to giving Andrew a chance to really get his feet under him.    So... given that backstory SPECULATION...

What if Jensen was angling for a mid-season directing job?  The EP3 gig is nothing but pure gravy for the show.  They get two more weeks of Jensen at a cut-rate (I bet his two week pay as a director is about 1/3 of what he makes for his per-episode actor cost), and a really good director who makes production easy.  Great for the show but hell on Jensen's personal time.  And it seems to me that Jensen sort of ended up with a few longer days than everyone else in S11.  He was at least 1-2 days later flying home for BOTH winter and summer hiatus.  So, the show COULD have Jensen as a director but perhaps he's only interested if they make it a mid-season episode and make the episode before he directs Dean-light.  Which would allow him to simultaneously do his director gig and actor thing.  Less time away from home.  BUT that means they have to rely less on Jensen for an episode.  And commit to that now.  Which is not how they work in the writer's room.  They generally tell the story they are going to tell and it's sometimes influenced by the talents of the director (which is why the Vessel was so ambitious), but they don't know enough now to lock it in.  First the directors are locked.  So... my speculation... if he directs it'll be because they've worked out a way for him to direct mid-season.  For example, they could slot in Singer and then try to make a story such that Jensen can step up and do the job, or vice-a-versa, they could slot in Jensen with Singer as backup.  That's tricky, I suspect.  

Bottom line: I think EP3 is his if he wants it and he may not want it.  I suspect we'll know very soon as prep will begin for the first episode filmed in about two weeks.  

If I were to lay odds, I'd say he won't direct this year but they'll work harder next year to make a deal.  

I don't know if Jensen has as much influence as all this, but I'd love to see him direct the premiere. It wouldn't help with his needing to come back early, but I think it would be fun to see what he would do with a premiere. Plus, I have a wish to have him direct something other than an Horrible Duo script. The last three he's directed are theirs and I just can hardly watch their episodes anymore. 

[FlickChick]

23 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I don't know if Jensen has as much influence as all this, but I'd love to see him direct the premiere. It wouldn't help with his needing to come back early, but I think it would be fun to see what he would do with a premiere. Plus, I have a wish to have him direct something other than an Horrible Duo script. The last three he's directed are theirs and I just can hardly watch their episodes anymore. 

I'm with you 100%. I think Jensen's earned the right to direct a premiere. He was given some valuable pointers by the late, great Kim Manners. And it shows in his directing. As for the writing of the Duo, it's difficult to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. :(

[catrox14]

Well, shit.

Nancy Won is going to Frequency. :( Fucking Carver! YOU POACHER! :( Boo.

[MysteryGuest]

Damn, who does that leave to write for this show?  Is she the 4th or 5th writer to leave, I've lost count?  I know they've hired new writers, and maybe some of them will even be good...new blood and all that, but still...I wonder if there's an underlying issue at play here?  Maybe they've just run out of new ideas for the show.  I personally think there are plenty of stories left to be told, but I guess we'll have to see if anyone is up to the challenge.

[Omegamom]

Well, boo, @catrox14 stole my thunder about Nancy Won.  I'm bummed, I liked her writing.  Charmelo/Snyder are leaving, too.  Anyway, this is the convo:

 

[DittyDotDot]

Wow! Interesting. I wasn't overly impressed with Won, but we only had her for the one season and sometimes it can take more than three episodes for me to decide on someone. It makes sense she went to Frequency, though. Didn't she come from Being Human? 

Charmelo/Snyder have been hit-or-miss for me over the years, but they did give us a couple funny ones. Good luck to them, hope they end up somewhere they want to be.

So, that just leaves Berens--thank God--and the Horrible Duo--Ugh. Everyone else will be new. I'm on the fence about what this will mean for the show. My first instinct is this will be a good thing because Dabb will get to staff his own room and could shake things up and produce something new and exciting. However, I got lulled into the fantasy that change is good back when Carver took over the show, and look how that turned out for me. 

Still very interesting.

Edited June 24, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[SueB]

Terrified and excited. 

[FlickChick]

I believe that Bob Singer is back as ExProducer. So unfortunately, I'm afraid that means that the Horrible Duo will be getting even more episodes/power/influence. Which to me is the worst thing that can happen to this show. I pray to Chuck I'm wrong!!!!!

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

I believe that Bob Singer is back as ExProducer. So unfortunately, I'm afraid that means that the Horrible Duo will be getting even more episodes/power/influence. Which to me is the worst thing that can happen to this show. I pray to Chuck I'm wrong!!!!!

The Horrible Duo is definitely a concern, but they didn't start having so much presence until Carver took over as showrunner. They were around under both Kripke and Gamble and Singer's presence didn't get them anywhere...could be Carver's exit helps with this little problem? I can't imagine them writing more episodes--they already do four per season, which is the maximum any writers put out per season on this show--but perhaps Dabb will give them less heavy lifting and/or manage their scripts better?

This could actually be a good thing...I think...um...maybe...perhaps...sort of...ahh shit! ;)

[Aeryn13]

A year ago I would have dreaded more of the duo but during Season 11 they actually made the best impression on me out of every single writer. So I`m tentatively optimistic. Of course Dabb made the single worst impression and he is showrunner now so there is that, 

[catrox14]

Another one bites the dust. Why is everyone leaving :(. This makes nervous.  I swear to Gods if Jerry Wanek leaves, I quit.

 

[7kstar]

Maybe Dabb will have a more hands on approach.  Collaboration can make something okay, to something really outstanding.  New eyes could bring something interesting.  Hoping for the best and prepared for so so.  The one thing in our corner, the boys will do what they do regardless, so that will allow for some good moments.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, 7kstar said:

Maybe Dabb will have a more hands on approach.  Collaboration can make something okay, to something really outstanding.  New eyes could bring something interesting.  Hoping for the best and prepared for so so.  The one thing in our corner, the boys will do what they do regardless, so that will allow for some good moments.

What makes me nervous is that Jensen said at a con that they had to make a big collaborative effort to get the finale "into the shape that it was"  which leaves me to wonder just how bad it was before we saw it.

I'm really NOT trying to be Negative Nelly but I did not enjoy most of s11 save a few episodes and some good performance moments and I especially disliked the last 4 episodes of s11 minus good performances. The story was all over the place, plot holes galore, terribad pacing etc. And as much as I liked many of Dabb's episodes over the years there are some I flat out couldn't stand and he wrote Bloodlines so I still side eye that big time. I'm wary.

Edited June 28, 2016 by catrox14

[FlickChick]

I'm hoping that some of what went on was because Carver basically bailed and left an unprepared Dabb in charge with little to no lead time.  So the question will be, when Dabb is fully running things, will he be able to be a better showrunner than what was seen at the end of last season. Regarding the episodes, I would imagine that those were in the works - aka Carver designated - before Dabb took the helm. Just my speculation, no inside knowledge here.