S12.E14: Collision Course

[Autistic Queer]

18 hours ago, SSAHotchner said:

Watched this one to see what happened to Reid. Poor baby. But I'm ready to strangle Garcia. I have had enough of her and I've only watched a couple of episodes this season. SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!! And dress like a grown up. 

She was wearing a dress and shoes. 

[Autistic Queer]

15 hours ago, UncleChuck said:

I get it that Penelope loves COLOR, but those stupid shoes are just over the top!   I keep hoping that one week she'll come hobbling into the office on crutches and sporting a huge cast on her leg, and when asked what happened, she has to admit that "I fell off of my shoes."

Most women her age have been wearing heels for years, she could run a marathon in them.

Also, if we're critiquing wardrobe, maybe the judge in someone's murder trial would take them seriously if they didn't dress like a college student, and looked like they have ever seen the inside of a barber shop. I mean come on, the man must be nearly 40, he's an FBI agent and can't find matching socks. 

I like the case. Misogyny is always a believable motive, I mean men murder women for turning them down on a regular basis, seriously, just google "Man kills woman after rejection" the results are horrifying. 

I don't mind if the tech can't actually do what they say it can, as long it's dramatically believable it works for me. 

The new guy Walker has one of the nicest speaking voices I've ever heard. 

I love the actress playing Reid's lawyer, I liked how direct she was, unlike Emily she didn't baby him. I wonder how they'll have Reid cope in jail, I mean he's someone who was expect to act like an adult at home and college while he was just a child, but was treated like a child by the FBI. Will be interesting to see. 

[ForeverAlone]

Penelope could barely walk in those shoes, let alone run in them. They were so completely inappropriate for field work, it was ridiculous and really detracted from her character. No woman her age should be dressing like that AT WORK, at least when representing such a conservative organization like the FBI. I hate it when she dresses like that in her lair, but when she is expected to interact with the public, she should dress more professionally. 

[Autistic Queer]

What was unprofessional about Garcia's clothes. She had a dress which didn't have low neckline, it wasn't short, in fact the hemline was below the knee and it had 3/4 length sleeves. That would pass even the most conservative of dress codes. 

[BlueJayFan]

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

I could be wrong, but when she was on The Following, Goosen didn't have the mole. It may be something CM added for the character.

I kept trying to clean the screen on my laptop until she moved.

[ReidFan]

no she couldn't run a marathon. She could barely walk in those. And that looks like a miniskirt to me. Completely unprofessional for law enforcement, even is she is ancillary personnel. What if she'd fallen and broken an ankle or something? How is that gonna help Alvez?

[Autistic Queer]

She's running in that picture... 

Skirt looks longer than I ever wear. And she's still passing every dress code except that at fatphobics united. 

[Danielg342]

The heels weren't very functional, though.

I also know the FBI doesn't encourage their use.

[Droogie]

51 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

no she couldn't run a marathon. She could barely walk in those. And that looks like a miniskirt to me. Completely unprofessional for law enforcement, even is she is ancillary personnel. What if she'd fallen and broken an ankle or something? How is that gonna help Alvez?

Reidfan, you mean you wouldn't feel safe with this as your backup?

[ReidFan]

LOL absofragginlutely not. And beyond the ridiculousness of the attire, she isn't armed either. Where the heck were JJ, Rossi, Lewis & Whatsisname anyway? And the local cops. Who *should* be the ones doing the arresting...............

Droogie, in your honour, I am drinking a glass of red wine :D

[Droogie]

Ooh.  :::shudder:::  Too soon.  But you enjoy!

[ForeverAlone]

1 hour ago, AutisticSpoonie said:

What was unprofessional about Garcia's clothes. She had a dress which didn't have low neckline, it wasn't short, in fact the hemline was below the knee and it had 3/4 length sleeves. That would pass even the most conservative of dress codes. 

That outfit would NOT be considered conservative for the FBI, certainly not for field work. She was tottering on ridiculously high heels that she could barely walk in at a crime scene. She was wearing some fuzzy balls in her hair that resembled kitty ears. I thought EVERYTHING about Penelope this episode was embarrassing. I haven't liked her in a long time, but she was at her absolute worst for me this time out. 

Edited February 24, 2017 by ForeverAlone

[Autistic Queer]

I'm not privvy to the FBI dress code but unless it was written by the same people who send girls home from school for showing their shoulders she's fine. And given Garcia's boss is a woman who understands if a woman's dress is distracting you that's your problem, I don't see a problem. 

Garcia isn't back up, she's not there to take down the unsub, if anything happens it's completely Alvez responsibility. 

Didnt Garcia shoot someone to save Reid a few seasons back? She's more use than Genius Boy in these situations. 

[SSAHotchner]

2 hours ago, AutisticSpoonie said:

She was wearing a dress and shoes. 

Perhaps you missed the silly, childish hair ornaments. 

[thewhiteowl]

Garcia's wardrobe is a matter of opinion. Agree to disagree and move on. 

[walnutqueen]

Is this the time to post the "I'd like to buy an argument" Monty Python skit?  

Episode topic? Pretty sure I've seen someone take over the controls of  car before for nefarious reasons on some other show, but I'm old & watch too many shows to remember much more than that it may have involved a driverless car hack.  :-)

[Willowy]

Nice to see you, walnutqueen.

[ReidFan]

along those lines, WalnutQueen (awesome handle by the way), my father is a lifelong auto mechanic. He doesn't watch Criminal MInds but I asked and he rolled his eyes seven ways to Sunday. "Why didn't the <idiot> (he means the driver) just put the car in neutral. Or yank the key out." etc....... I just LOL'd.

[walnutqueen]

Just now, Franky said:

Nice to see you, walnutqueen.

I lurk here, for the most part, because I'm physicallly unable to post much more than a quick quip, and cannot hope to keep up with y'all. But thanks, Franky - I'm with you in spirit.  ;-)

 

Just now, ReidFan said:

along those lines, WalnutQueen (awesome handle by the way), my father is a lifelong auto mechanic. He doesn't watch Criminal MInds but I asked and he rolled his eyes seven ways to Sunday. "Why didn't the <idiot> (he means the driver) just put the car in neutral. Or yank the key out." etc....... I just LOL'd.

Those of us who worked in the automotive field, or knew mechanics, or drove recklessly, or even watch CM often roll our eyes.  Gives me a headache and makes me kinda dizzy, so I must suspend belief and sense, and concentrate on not throwing things at me TeeVee.  (But if you hear shouting swear words in the middle of the night - which is when I usually watch my DVR'd shows - it may just be me.).

[JMO]

For me, it was Garcia's behavior, accented by her wardrobe, that ruined that half of the episode.  Her attire is always inappropriate, but she sometimes reins in her behavior.  In this episode, neither worked in her favor.  She was flippant on the plane and in the police precinct (ie, in public), ridiculous in the car chase with Luke, and then overly dramatic in the courtroom (as usual).  The mock-run in the heels was just the icing on a very half-baked cake.

Edited February 24, 2017 by JMO

[normasm]

Agreed, JMO.

[Willowy]

Not everyone is conservative in their clothing or personal expression.

Where I work, in tech, people are encouraged to wear what they want, including gauges, tattoos, beards, body piercings, etc... with no judgment as long as they do their job. That's the way many corporations work now. Judging someone because their physical appearance 'offends' you somehow is discriminatory.

Should she have worn more practical shoes for the field? Sure. I noticed she wore those sparkly boots Kirsten always sports while not filming, on the jet. For whatever reason, she didn't do it in the field, and while it was impractical, I don't get the outrage.

[ForeverAlone]

I just want to point out that if Penelope worked for some tech business, she wouldn't be considered unprofessional at all. However, she does work for the FBI and they have a completely different dress code. Penelope's work dress doesn't offend me, but it is deeply unprofessional for where she works, and more to the point, extremely impractical for field work. Her practically falling over in those multi inch heels was the height of stupid. I saw that she was wearing UGG boots on the plane, and as silly as they are for work attire, they certainly were more appropriate for field work than what she was actually wearing. And that doesn't even touch on those stupid kitten ears, which have no place in a work place like the FBI. The show has slowly but surely turned Penelope into a caricature. When the show started, she was quirky, but still pretty professional. If anything, it is almost like her character has devolved and de-matured into a teenage girl, not a professional woman in her 40s. 

Edited February 24, 2017 by ForeverAlone

[Willowy]

I hear you, but the show has always played fast and loose with the FBI dress code; Rossi's goatee, Morgan's jeans, JJ's t-shirts, Reid's hair length. I find criticism of Penelope's choices, for want of a better word, vicious. She's hurting nobody with it, she's expressing her personal style, and her entire function in last night's episode was to be on a computer. Doesn't usually translate to a ton of running.

Her kitten ears were an accessory, like a bracelet or earrings, or a freaking tiara if she wanted to wear one. My point is... so what? How does it hurt you, or impugn on your personal freedoms, in any way?

[ForeverAlone]

Have I ever said it hurt me or impugned on my personal freedoms? No, and none of the fans who oppose Penelope's characterization have said anything close to it either. We are expressing a part of the show we seriously dislike, and Penelope is just one aspect that displeases some fans these days (the poor case writing probably being one of the biggest fan complaints these days). I personally dislike what the writers have done to Penelope, because I do feel they have made her less of an actual person who has professionally worked in the FBI for over 12 years and instead have turned her into a a cartoon character. To me, Penelope's devolution is emblematic of the characterization problems that have built up over the years, and it goes hand in hand with the poor case writing. 

[Willowy]

But see, that's you. I have friends like her. Aspects of my own personality ARE like her. So if nothing she does affects you in any way, why do you feel the need to go out of your way to slam her at every turn? I don't think she's a cartoon character. I think she's very much like Kirsten, a flamboyant actor and activist and by all accounts, one of the sweetest people alive. Because someone reaches a certain chronological age doesn't mean their personal expression must become dowdy/practical/conservative. Artistic types have always blown away convention. Look at Andy Warhol, Betsey Johnson... just to name two. 

Also I'd just like to point out the the very word 'tech' is in her job description.

Kirsten is who she is and so is Garcia and they are similar. I have no problem with that and I'd much rather celebrate her choices, and the good she tries to put out in the world, than try to judge or demean her shoes. 

[thewhiteowl]

Topic, please. 

[Willowy]

Right! So does anyone think Reid's attorney will be able to get his court date moved up (maybe by citing Diana's need for him)? Three months is a loooong time for him to be in population.

[Bookish Jen]

5 minutes ago, Franky said:

Right! So does anyone think Reid's attorney will be able to get his court date moved up (maybe by citing Diana's need for him)? Three months is a loooong time for him to be in population.

I should hope so. I don't want Spencer to be locked up for three minutes let alone three months.

[ForeverAlone]

Well...we know he's going to be locked up for more than one episode, and Erica made it sound like this arc won't finish up until the end of the season, with her hope of carrying it forward into a possible future season. So make of that what you will. 

I am curious to see what the show's justification for seemingly putting Reid into GenPop, because in the real world, he would be in protective custody. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

12 hours ago, bkathi said:

I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but I am officially shipping Garcia and Alvez.  Love how calm and patient he is with her, and how he held her after they took Reid away. 

I would appreciate if they did hook these two up - but keep most of that actual kind of interaction in offscreensville - only because the otherwise unnecessary awkwardness in their interactions is just tedious and outright not enjoyable because it seems like they're both trying too hard to be funny for the cameras.  I said it in my original post in this thread, their interactions basically 'scream' UST when that actually isn't the case, so it comes off all wrong instead.

I didn't say it before, but the writers really don't seem to know their own characters sometimes.  JJ:[on whether she had went to see Reid in jail] "I don't think I could stand to see Spence like that".  Hmph.  Some "best friend" you are.  But, again, I lay the blame for that line on the writers, not the character.

[Willowy]

I interpreted that as that it would crush her to see him in that particular situation, because she loves him. I've no doubt JJ would bust down the jail door if she felt Spencer needed her there. That was in no way an abandonment statement on her part, just her admission of care and worry for him, and of her own powerlessness to get him out of there. 

[Old Dog]

Wow! It's early in the morning here and I seem to have missed a lot of discussion over Garcia's appearance in this episode - especially as there seem to be gaps so I'm guessing posts have been removed. I just want to say that - in my opinion - comments on her appearance are very relevant to thoughts and criticisms of the episode. The way she presented to the local enforcement tottering so laughably about in short skirts and high heels totally detracted from the case story for many viewers so it is indeed a key point to criticise. I get that Garcia is meant to be a quirky free spirit and even though they have made her into a sort of exaggerated cartoon version of KV herself I could tolerate it as long as she was in her cave as a tech. The character of Garcia started off so great as quirky and original but has morphed into this over the top version which is basically just KV playing KV - in my opinion of course. I worked in the justice sector in my country and I can tell you that her appearance in any professional capacity involving other officers would be totally unacceptable. This is not a personal attack on the actress not is it fatphobic - IMO it is just allowed by the show to pander to the tweenies on social media but actually just offends and distracts all the adults who watch the show. I get that the show cannot be like real life or we would be watching a group of profilers sitting in an office for an hour - but I do like some degree of realism so I can buy into the story and not be distracted from it by something so off the wall as Garcia's appearance and behaviour. It's fine for KV to be over the top fluffy and flamboyant, not so much for the character she is supposed to be playing. I think you can equate her to Abby in NCIS - at least, from what I recall, Abby stays in her lab and started out as a Goth and didn't devolve in the same way that they made Garcia devolve into someone more and more and more unbelievable.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Old Dog

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

7 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

Well...we know he's going to be locked up for more than one episode, and Erica made it sound like this arc won't finish up until the end of the season, with her hope of carrying it forward into a possible future season. So make of that what you will.

Taking response to this over Spoilers & Speculation thread...

[smoker]

17 hours ago, Old Dog said:

Wow! It's early in the morning here and I seem to have missed a lot of discussion over Garcia's appearance in this episode - especially as there seem to be gaps so I'm guessing posts have been removed. I just want to say that comments on her appearance are very relevant to thoughts and criticisms of the episode. The way she presented to the local enforcement tottering so laughably about in short skirts and high heels totally detracted from the case story for many viewers so it is indeed a key point to criticise. I get that Garcia is meant to be a quirky free spirit and even though they have made her into a sort of exaggerated cartoon version of KV herself I could tolerate it as long as she was in her cave as a tech. The character of Garcia started off so great as quirky and original but has morphed into this over the top version which is basically just KV playing KV. I worked in the justice sector in my country and I can tell you that her appearance in any professional capacity involving other officers would be totally unacceptable. This is not a personal attack on the actress not is it fatphobic - it is just allowed by the show to pander to the tweenies on social media but actually just offends and distracts all the adults who watch the show. I get that the show cannot be like real life or we would be watching a group of profilers sitting in an office for an hour - but I do like some degree of realism so I can buy into the story and not be distracted from it by something so off the wall as Garcia's appearance and behaviour. It;s fine for KV to be over the top fluffy and flamboyant, not so much for the character she is supposed to be playing.

I have missed Garcia's appearance discussion too, but I pretty much agree with you and with other comments about the ridiculousness of KV performance.

Moreover, I have shared my opinion on this matter several times so I am going to add only these:

I remember season 7 premiere, Garcia telling Morgan she had found Doyle or Declan. Anyway, it was a similar situation, KV couldn't walk, I thought she was going to fall down of those stilts the whole scene.

However, also in season 7, Garcia exchanged her footwear when she was headed to the field, dr martens instead of heels.  I could have lived with that you know, I mean she's unprofessional but smart.

I think this is a mix of bad writing (as always) and nepotism. Good for them if they are BFF, but they should be professionals too. Garcia's attire and behabior are a mood killer too many times.

[secnarf]

Just got around to watching this episode. I was pretty "meh" about it. I was very confused about the implausibility of the case for a while. I usually cringe a bit from secondhand embarrassment when they bring Garcia out into the field, and this episode was no different. However, I did find her scene in the car with Alvez, when she was trying to hack the car, to be believable enough.

I disliked Rossi giving Emily orders on the plane. She is supposed to be the team leader. I wish they showed them struggling a bit with that dynamic, since when Emily was on the team before, Rossi had seniority and now it is the other way around. It makes sense that they would both fall back on old habits but Emily also isn't (or at least, she wasn't) the type of person to ignore somebody else taking over for her.

This isn't specific to this episode, but it was more glaring to me in this episode than it usually is - how the heck did they determine that the suspect is a white male?! They usually say that as their default unless there is some glaring reason as to why the unsub would fall into a different demographic, but I would like them to be wrong once in a while.

I liked the lawyer and her interactions with Emily and Reid, but the storyline seems a bit stretched, and after HTGAWM I've had more than enough of cranky judges denying bail for sketchy reasons and then leaving the person in the general population in prison.

[smoker]

7 hours ago, secnarf said:

I disliked Rossi giving Emily orders on the plane. She is supposed to be the team leader. I wish they showed them struggling a bit with that dynamic, since when Emily was on the team before, Rossi had seniority and now it is the other way around. It makes sense that they would both fall back on old habits but Emily also isn't (or at least, she wasn't) the type of person to ignore somebody else taking over for her.

Interesting.

I am thinking of Gideon and Hotch. After Gideon lost his own team and joined this unit, he was bossy and gave orders without consulting Hotch who was his unit chief. Moreover, Hotch never confronted Gideon, but I remember him putting Rossi in his place early on, I guess to avoid that situation again. 

It's a very interesting analysis, It could be a pretext for a good subplot in one episode.

Edited February 26, 2017 by smoker

[Kara101]

53 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Just got around to watching this episode. I was pretty "meh" about it. I was very confused about the implausibility of the case for a while. I usually cringe a bit from secondhand embarrassment when they bring Garcia out into the field, and this episode was no different. However, I did find her scene in the car with Alvez, when she was trying to hack the car, to be believable enough.

I disliked Rossi giving Emily orders on the plane. She is supposed to be the team leader. I wish they showed them struggling a bit with that dynamic, since when Emily was on the team before, Rossi had seniority and now it is the other way around. It makes sense that they would both fall back on old habits but Emily also isn't (or at least, she wasn't) the type of person to ignore somebody else taking over for her.

This isn't specific to this episode, but it was more glaring to me in this episode than it usually is - how the heck did they determine that the suspect is a white male?! They usually say that as their default unless there is some glaring reason as to why the unsub would fall into a different demographic, but I would like them to be wrong once in a while.

I liked the lawyer and her interactions with Emily and Reid, but the storyline seems a bit stretched, and after HTGAWM I've had more than enough of cranky judges denying bail for sketchy reasons and then leaving the person in the general population in prison.

I'm glad you pointed out the "white male" thing. It is a total myth that all serial killers are white. There is a representative amount of serial killers in all races. Of course, white males make up the biggest male demographic in the US, so it makes sense that they would be the most common on the show. But I can only think of very few times when it wasn't a white male. As of 2014, 62% of american males were non-hispanic white ( I just looked it up!) I don't expect the show to follow the statistics exactly or anything, but I do find it odd that the show is purposefully perpetrating the myth.

[SSAHotchner]

19 hours ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

I'm glad you pointed out the "white male" thing. It is a total myth that all serial killers are white. There is a representative amount of serial killers in all races. Of course, white males make up the biggest male demographic in the US, so it makes sense that they would be the most common on the show. But I can only think of very few times when it wasn't a white male. As of 2014, 62% of american males were non-hispanic white ( I just looked it up!) I don't expect the show to follow the statistics exactly or anything, but I do find it odd that the show is purposefully perpetrating the myth.

I think the current writers (sans Clemente who is a Hollywood sell-out in my opinion) are clueless as to the facts. Really, I think they're just used to starting out the profile with "He's a white male...." I have no argument with the fact that most serial killers are white males, it's just that they're very unoriginal in their dialogue these days. The giving of the profile, which once used to be interesting, has become so boring and robotic. Let's see now, did everyone on the team get the same amount of lines? Really! I wish they  would draw more on real cases and stop trying to create the bizarre unsubs, stop trying to see who can come up with the most outlandish way to kill someone.

[Willowy]

And I miss how the LLE used to ask questions during the profile. Now they just say nothing and scribble furiously.

[Kara101]

I just looked it up and apparently 20% of serial murder is committed by African Americans. I have to admit I am very shocked by this statistic! Apparently the myth persists because all of the high profile ones have been white. I do wonder if the 20% statistic is disputed. It is very easy to find statistics on the internet but a lot of them are misleading. 

Its really no big deal, I don't expect the show to follow exact demographic statistics. I agree that it's the writers just being lazy and subscribing to their default. The show isn't realistic anyways, but I think I can only think of one African-American unsub on the entire show and he had a white partner. Even though I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot. I just find it kind of funny just how unrealistic the show really is.

[Willowy]

There was the guy in Corazon, the family in Strange Fruit, Kim Wayans, The victim turned UnSub in The Edge of Winter...

anyone think of any others?

Wouldn't it be funny if added all together they turned out to be 20%? :D

[Droogie]

Question:  Reid's a genius and certainly has been in court previously, so why didn't he immediately stand up with his attorney in the courtroom?  It didn't really register with me but I was looking at gifs on Tumblr and now I'm curious/annoyed -- because he would certainly know better.

[ReidFan]

16 minutes ago, Droogie said:

Question:  Reid's a genius and certainly has been in court previously, so why didn't he immediately stand up with his attorney in the courtroom?  It didn't really register with me but I was looking at gifs on Tumblr and now I'm curious/annoyed -- because he would certainly know better.

bad directing?

shock of the moment?

good question!

[SSAHotchner]

On 2/26/2017 at 7:26 PM, Franky said:

There was the guy in Corazon, the family in Strange Fruit, Kim Wayans, The victim turned UnSub in The Edge of Winter...

anyone think of any others?

Wouldn't it be funny if added all together they turned out to be 20%? :D

Soul Mates had both a white and a black man raping and killing girls of both races. 

Fear and Loathing had a black guy killing young black girls who were also singers.

Lessons Learned had a Muslim unsub who recruited young black males from prison to bomb public places.

Profiler Profiled had a black pedophile who killed some of his young, black male victims.

Lo-Fi and Mayhem had young males of various races trained to kill for their cause.

Catching Out was a hispanic guy killing families so he could stay in their homes and eat their food.

Those are from seasons 1-5, just to add a few.

[Willowy]

Good, good, yes! I don't know why I was focusing just on African Americans... there was also that Asian UnSub last year? The one who didn't want to let his father down.

[ForeverAlone]

That would be "Burn" written by Janine.

[ReidFan]

50 minutes ago, ForeverAlone said:

That would be "Burn" written by Janine.

the sorta kinda unsub in "Witness" was Asian too.

[PMPA]

So this episode was due to be shown in the UK tonight, but due to events last week in London, it was not.  The channel also announced that they had no plans to show it and would simply go on with 15 next week.  Understandable I guess.

Quote

 

[KriOe]

On 2/23/2017 at 10:55 PM, Autistic Queer said:

Also, if we're critiquing wardrobe, maybe the judge in someone's murder trial would take them seriously if they didn't dress like a college student, and looked like they have ever seen the inside of a barber shop. I mean come on, the man must be nearly 40, he's an FBI agent and can't find matching socks. 

A few years later, but just wanted to say that the sock thing is a Matthew Gray Gubler thing.

From IMDb «He never wears matching socks, as he says they are bad luck, which he learned from his grandmother. The one time he wore matching socks, he was filming a scene in The life aquatic with Steve Zissou (2004). He ended up spraining his ankle on screen, which was kept in the movie.»

Edited October 2, 2019 by KriOe