S18.E06: The Witness

[Tara Ariano]

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Bill Genovese investigates the 1964 murder of his sister Kitty, who was stabbed to death in Queens while 38 bystanders did nothing—at least, that's how the story was reported by the New York Times. Those "facts" led to the development of "the bystander effect" within psychology; influenced politicians to pass "Good Samaritan" laws; and spurred Bill to volunteer for Vietnam, where he lost his legs. But those "facts" weren't accurate, as Genovese discovers through the course of the documentary.

[Primetimer]

2015's personal look at a legendary New York crime comes to Independent Lens.

View the full article

[spaceghostess]

I'm so glad you wrote this up, as I just watched it last Friday and it haunted me all weekend. I agree that it was well done, a deft balance of fact and feeling. It seemed almost like a New Yorker article come to life.

I grew up in southern Westchester County, near the Bronx, however, my parents lived in queens from the mid-fifties through the early seventies (my older sibs went to P.S. 24 in Flushing) when we moved to the 'burbs. The Genovese murder happened seven years before I was born, but it was very present in our minds growing up. I remember my father mentioning it quite a few times. I also remember watching Gabe Pressman on News 4, so was all ears when Bill interviewed him. The dinners with Bill and family were fascinating and so real (loved the "no clams" complaint from Bill--been there!); the way each sibling had a slightly different take on the tragedy and how it should be handled--or not handled--now, and how, sadly, the nieces and nephews know nothing about Kitty except the way she died. I don't know if it's an Italian American thing or what, but this "We can't change it, so we bury it" response is one I've seen in my own family, examples being the death of my mother's first baby, the fact that my cousin was the product of an affair, my aunt's abusive first husband . . . things very briefly spoken of, if at all.

I dunno, it kind of bothered me when Moseley's son implied that his pain was equal to the Genovese family's. No doubt growing up with your murderer father's reputation overshadowing you is its own kind of hell, but not the same, I don't think, as losing a sibling or child that way. Also, he believed every crazy thing his father--and family--told him about the murder and the Genoveses themselves? I'd like to think that in his place, I'd have questioned some of these stories--but who knows?

Yeah, that "reenactment" was really eerie. I was also wondering why Bill did it, but it seemed to help him release something. I thought the actress was amazing and I cried when she and Bill embraced afterward.

I was really glad to hear the stories of Kitty herself, and I hope the family finds some peace in sharing their memories of her--and the things they've learned more recently--with the younger generation. Maybe she can become woman instead of a murder victim in their minds.

Edited January 24, 2017 by spaceghostess
Italics and stuff

[cuppasun]

Highly recommend the book "Kitty Genovese: The Murder, the Bystanders, the Crime That Changed America" by Kevin Cook, available in print, ebook & audio. A thorough examination of the case, its impact, and a really detailed look at Kitty and her life, which is usually overlooked or ignored.

[reggiejax]

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Also, he believed every crazy thing his father--and family--told him about the murder and the Genoveses themselves? I'd like to think that in his place, I'd have questioned some of these stories--but who knows?

Indeed, that part where the son brought up the notion that Kitty Genovese was connected to the Genovese crime family, was all kinds of awkward. Forgetting for a second the easy stereotype about Italian-Americans that was being bought into, it just seemed strange that the murderer's family seemed to think there was danger in meeting with Bill Genovese. For the sake of argument, let's say Kitty Genovese was related to Vito Genovese. Does anyone really think that any retribution against innocent relatives (which, btw, the mob tends to go out of it's way not to do) would take a half century to be exacted? Not to mention it would also mean the Genovese family (crime family, that is) would have allowed the murderer to live for half a century. What the hell were the murderer's relatives so afraid of? 

Still, I have to give credit to both Bill Genovese and the son for meeting like that. I honestly could not imagine meeting with someone I was connected to in that way.

Edited January 24, 2017 by reggiejax

[12catcrazy]

I thought this film was very well done. Bill's pain and his search for the truth after 40 years made for riveting viewing. It was good that there was actual film footage of Kitty as a teenager and a young woman - it made her very real - an actual "person" instead of the synonym for I'm Not Getting Involved Apathy.

And I second the recommendation of the Kevin Cook book mentioned by Cuppasun. I read the book last year and it was an eye opener. The really sad thing was that there was one person who could have possibly saved Kitty's life and instead closed his door. He was mentioned in the film and he was the guy who had the pet store. The book goes into more detail about him and his friendship with Kitty and her girlfriend.

[walnutqueen]

Moseley's son seemed to be in convenient denial and total ignorance about a number of issues, besides the tenuous Genovese crime family "connection".  He tried to claim the murder was racially motivated because Genovese used racial slurs against Moseley, and then denied knowledge of the equally brutal murder of a black woman his father had committed 2 weeks prior to killing Genovese.

[Black Knight]

I just watched this today, and found it gripping indeed.

One thing I wish is that Bill had asked Kitty's girlfriend about the whole 38 witnesses thing, especially since she knew at least a couple of them personally. How did it affect her? Did she confront the pet store guy? Did she talk with Sophia Farrar about Kitty's final moments? Did the inaction by some shape her future actions like it did Bill's?

[GaT]

I'm glad to find a thread for this documentary (I'm not even sure what forum I'm in LOL), because I just watched this & found it very moving. I'm amazed at how the family really didn't know all the details, it wasn't clear to me whether that was because the police never told them, or they just didn't want to know. To me, the most gut wrenching thing was the fact that Bill went to Vietnam because he didn't want to be someone who stood by & did nothing, & that's why he lost his legs.

On 1/23/2017 at 9:49 PM, spaceghostess said:

I dunno, it kind of bothered me when Moseley's son implied that his pain was equal to the Genovese family's. No doubt growing up with your murderer father's reputation overshadowing you is its own kind of hell, but not the same, I don't think, as losing a sibling or child that way. Also, he believed every crazy thing his father--and family--told him about the murder and the Genoveses themselves? I'd like to think that in his place, I'd have questioned some of these stories--but who knows?

That part really was strange & awkward. He not only believed his father, but he didn't believe that his father killed someone else. This guy was seriously in denial, his father is a psychopath. When he broke out of prison, the first thing he did was rape & murder another woman. When he killed Kitty he just wanted to kill a woman & she was the one who was there. This is someone without a conscience or any kind of morals, for his son, who is apparently a Reverend, to act like this was a racially based crime is garbage.

[stonehaven]

Just watched this on Netflix and yeah, it moved me...and will stay with me for awhile..the whole thing with Mosley saying didn't want talk to the Bill and his reasons..angered me but revealed the true nature of who he really was..including that letter..no remorse....shifting blame..and I think I saw a trace of that in the son.