S01.E04: Science and Magic

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Emerald City Has An Axe To Grind About Science vs. Magic

Slaughter and metaphors and whores, oh my!

[Mari]

49 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Tip gives me bad memories of Merida, Camera One. 

 

 Haha!   I can't say Tip's warm and fuzzy, but did you have to go full Merida?  I mean, it's not like she's kidnapped someone or said every single line using her angry eyes.  She's at least been sad and lonely-looking a couple of times.  Merida was at least 40% ragier.  :)

[formerlyfreedom]

A reminder - no book talk in the episode topics, not even a hint. If you mention the books in here without a spoiler tag (better yet, go to the Book Talk topic and talk about it there!), the post will be removed; repeat offenders may be warned.

[Ariah]

11 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

This show keeps piling on new mysteries instead of solving old ones. No questions have really been answered since the Pilot. We still don't know who Dorothy or Lucas are, but hey - let's add a girl we know even less information about. I've seen the "mysterious little girl with powers" trope more than once before.

Well, we didn't learn who Jon Snow was till really late in the game :)

The mysteries don't bother me - what does, is that despite the fact that all 10 episodes were shot by one skilled director, we still have continuity problems and bad editing.

Come on! Did all the budget go on effects and costumes and none to a single person watching beta roll, screaming - "Wait, wait, you can't use that shot!" or "wait, how they are suppose to get so fast so far?"

[slf]

Yeah, they really need to clarify what age Tip is supposed to be because while the actress may be in her twenties I don't think the character is. She was taken to an orphanage, after all, which one is generally not sent to when one is an adult. Which would make her underage and therefore makes West fucking disgusting. You don't get in a bathtub with a kid and you don't try to recruit her to work at your depressing brothel where half the women are doing opium to "forget".

Marathoned the show yesterday and was really enjoying it up until those scenes. 

[Isle Of Why]

Even if Tip is supposed to be late teens or older, she had been confined by Mombi so long that the only memories she had of herself were as a boy. My assumption was that she'd been locked up most of her life. Mombi could have performed some sort of forgetting spell or one for age regression, except if present, those didn't wear off once the sex change one did.

So yeah, from what information we've been given, the bathtub scene was super icky. I was a little surprised Tip even knew what a whore was. It's not like she had TV and Internet while a prisoner.

[sjohnson]

Re West in the tub...West is plainly meant to be cool in a wounded bird sort of way. And generally cool is meant to be for audience identification. On the other hand, absent any special identification with West, what she's doing isn't very nice; her victim status doesn't quite connect to why she's running a bordello; the oppression from magic and the anti-magic science Wizard tends to cancel out. 

But the show looks good. Smaller budget than Game of Thrones but more imaginative design. 

Isle of Why is absolutely right that Tip shouldn't have been so glib about whores. That line was telegraphed from the writing room.

Spoiler

And I still think if you've read the book, hearing that line from "Tip" really undercuts it. Or adds a layer of dramatic irony that makes it very arch, not resonant, I think.

Edited January 24, 2017 by sjohnson

[jhlipton]

On 1/22/2017 at 1:08 AM, Camera One said:

A lot of this episode felt like it was dancing around the actual motives of  ... West

I'm waiting for Ojo the Mundjekin to say that the word for West is "Fenwick" (or whatever) and then that's what becomes her name.  (Toto says "Arf!")

On 1/22/2017 at 8:04 AM, cooksdelight said:

I'm wondering what's behind Ev's mask? My first thought was a black hole filled with stars, based on that thing that blasted Oz's counselor and almost killed her.

"Oh my god -- it's full of stars!"

On 1/23/2017 at 3:02 PM, KingOfHearts said:

let's add a girl we know even less information about. I've seen the "mysterious little girl with powers" trope more than once before.

It's being [mis-]used on Grimm even as we speak.

[aradia22]

I still have to put my thoughts together for the recap, but this was a bad week for me. I got so incredibly mad at Dorothy. I think it'll be good for the recap, but the way she behaved this week might have turned me off the show if I was watching as a normal viewer. The whole Sylvie thing was complete nonsense... capped off by her shooting Eamonn and then the writers trying to sneak their way out of it with the incredibly stupid flirting over the music/phone and the kiss. No, you do not earn cute if corny moments like that if you spend the whole episode acting like an idiot and jumping to conclusions. If we'd seen any evidence that Sylvie was mistreated it would be one thing. Instead, Dorothy was barging around like she was from social services even though she had no authority to be harassing these people. And then even though Sylvie seemed way more dangerous than Tip (it was basically a horror movie at points), Dorothy still got herself and Lucas involved. Dark and gritty is one thing. Trying to get me to sympathize with a protagonist who seems like the villain from anyone else's perspective is really pushing it. 

Most of the rest of the episode was fine but not that interesting. I did thing the whole nun vs. whore thing was kind of funny though I still wish West and Glinda were more over the top. Just go for it. Why not? West popping up in the bath was so wrong but they didn't even have fun with it. I don't know why this show does silly things but takes them SO seriously.

I guess the best part this week was Jack and Jane. Langwidere seems pretty terrible (and she seems like she's going to be making a run at D'Onofrio for worst accent) but in spite of her creepiness, I thought Jane could have been a kinder version of Mombi. I wonder if she'll be back. She did seem to like Jack. 

Scratch that. The best part of the episode was Ojo flinging that wooden thing to hit Dorothy in the back of the head. After her idiocy the last two episodes, I cheered.

[Mojeaux]

On 1/23/2017 at 2:25 PM, RadiantAerynSun said:

I would be disappointed in any show that gave away secrets about its major characters in the first 3-4 episodes...

THANK YOU!!! It's ep 4. There are 6 eps left to answer all the questions, which it seems well paced enough to do.

Quote

Eamonn seemed a bit shaky at the end there, I'm guessing he's very badly wounded.

Eamonn was shot in the breastplate. He'd have a helluva bruised sternum, possibly a cracked rib if it glanced, but it wasn't a kill shot by any stretch and I doubt he has a bullet wound.

Quote

Dorothy and Lucas do have chemistry, but that kiss happened way way way too soon.

It didn't seem rushed to me. It seemed like a trauma-induced comfort make-out to me. That said, they have chemistry unlike some irritating shows I could name *koffSnow&Charmingkoff* *koffEmma&Nealkoff* *koffNick&Julietteknoff*

[slf]

I was going through people's comments on Twitter and someone tweeted one of the show producers about Tip and West in the bathtub and how it was disgusting and he said, "Well she is the Wicked Witch of the West" and

Spoiler

that we should be afraid for Tip.

[rubinia]

True as it may have been, I had to roll my eyes at the "I can be a nun or a whore" comment. I felt like the writers thought it was some fist-pumping moment for ladies, but it was just cringeworthy to me.

[JenE4]

On 1/22/2017 at 7:20 PM, NJRadioGuy said:

I just have one big continuity problem. How did Dorothy get her old clothes back? Last we see her in E3, she's heading for the road in full East costume, and a giant hole blown through the East castle when the tornado evaporated. Dorothy didn't look like she was heading back for her old stuff. That needed to be explained story-wise.

Yes, that bothered me, too! Lol.

I love the Jack as Tin-Man storyline! He and Tip are by far the most intriguing characters for me right now. Is Lady Ev the lion? In her wardrobe of masks, she had one that looked just like a lion mask, and her hair is stylized as a mane...sort of, if you squint enough. 

[Jordan27]

I like the look of the show.  I like Dorothy.   Most of the rest of the characters are uneven.  The plot is average.

But, the biggest problem I see with this show is that there is almost no humor. 

Oz is a dark world filled with magic and mostly misery.  It doesn't seem any different to me that some backwards country in the Middle East.

I'm hanging with it for now because I want to see where it goes, but it's not the most compelling show.

Follow the yellow brick road indeed....more like follow the humorless characters.

[jhlipton]

Just now, Jordan27 said:

Follow the yellow brick road indeed....more like follow the humorless characters.

West has a sense of humor, if only a dry and somewhat sadistic one...