S03.E03: Aye, There's the Rub

[formerlyfreedom]

Helena gets hooked on a reality television program; The paternity of Liam and Eleanor is revealed.

[WhosThatGirl]

HOLY!!! They brought Robert back already?!?!!!?!?! Damn show that was fast as hell.

Why is Sara Alice a thing that's happening on this show?!?! I can't with precarious children on tv shows. I just can't. Why are they ruining my Jasper and Eleanor scenes with this?

Eleanor and Jasper having James write both of their letters was kind of cute.  And I'm sorry cliche but I love that he started to write her a letter at the end.

I still don't really care about Liam solo storylines or what's going on there. He's so boring alone. I could care less about all these girls who come in and out.. although poor Willow.  But it's obvious his brothers non girlfriend still loves Robert and is projecting her feelings onto Liam. 

Cyrus hiding a maid to play the part of the mother of his child wasn't fun to watch. And while he may have loved her I don't feel for him.

I'm glad both the twins are legitimate. 

Helena has definitely softened this season. 

[MaryHedwig]

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Cyrus hiding a maid to play the part of the mother of his child wasn't fun to watch.

Help me out if I am wrong, but I think Cyrus hired the fish-maid to play Violet, a maid he loved who was not the mother of his child. The mother of his child is (another maid) Prudence.

Edited December 20, 2016 by MaryHedwig

[kat165]

Not enough Jasper and Eleanor, but at least Liam's story got more interesting with Robt soon to enter the picture and him (Liam) as future king - although I guess not anymore because of Robt. Although Robt didn't seem like he was going to bring Katherine with him when he got the throne. Liam at least seems willing to have her be part of his life. So his storyline has improved somewhat but still too much of him and his many gfs.

WhosThat, I agree with you on the letter writing. It was cliche but I loved it. The two of them are my favorite characters and Mr. Hill ("Foxy" hehe) so it was nice to see them all in a scene together.

Does anyone know the name of the song that played at the end. It had some great guitar in it.

I sort of feel sorry for Cyrus. That bit with the maid/fish woman was just sad.

Did anyone see their Christmas greeting? That was great! Loved Alex & Tom dancing together. I wonder if they enjoyed it. If neither is a dancer I can see how this would be intimidating. Loved her dress. Was that really her singing? She has a nice voice.

[WhosThatGirl]

17 minutes ago, MaryHedwig said:

Help me out if I am wrong, but I think Cyrus hired the fish-maid to play Violet, a maid he loved who was not the father of his child. The father of his child is (another maid) Prudence.

I must have missed that. Either way I don't feel bad for him.

[kat165]

I think you meant "mother," Mary. :)

It was also funny how caught up Queenie was into that soup opera. Who were those young woman in the light blue jumpers? Schoolgirls? Junior maids?

And yeah, that kid's gotta go. What a terrible little actress.

[GaT]

4 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Why is Sara Alice a thing that's happening on this show?!?! I can't with precarious children on tv shows. I just can't. Why are they ruining my Jasper and Eleanor scenes with this?

 

3 hours ago, kat165 said:

And yeah, that kid's gotta go. What a terrible little actress.

I hate her, & just judging by the fact that she was in the strange Christmas video at the end (WTF was that?), I think she's going to be sticking around for the rest of the season.

I get the feeling they're going to try & make it a battle between Robert & Liam for the crown, but how would that be? Robert is the eldest, he's the heir, how can there be a battle? 

It's feels like they decided last season was a mistake, & they're just going to fix what they can, & pretend the rest didn't happen. What about Helena's big plot to become ruler of the country? Wasn't that the reason for the whole "Liam & Eleanor are illegitimate" storyline? They've already dumped the Domino plot, & gotten Liam a new girl, now all they have to do is find a way to pretend that one of the cousins didn't have all that plastic surgery, & they can bring them back.

[MsTree]

Aw, I like little Sara Alice. She's like the British version of Trixie from Lucifer.

[omgsowicked]

The fictional prince on the show Helena was watching is Elizabeth Hurley's son! I'd heard of the casting but I thought he'd be playing a real royal and they'd cross paths... I prefer it this way. That was fun. So Liam and Eleanor are Simon's children. Cool, glad we went through all that drama. I thought it would be juicy if Alistair was their father, or just Liam's father, especially now that Robert's back and taking back his place in line. Ooh, maybe Robert's not Simon's son, mwhaha. LOL. I'm glad Helena and the twins are on good terms, finally. Oh, and the scene where Eleanor jumped on Liam's back was so cute, I really love them together.

I'm into Liam/Willow but I thought they laid it on a little too thick all of a sudden, particularly on her end. She always gave him "we're just friends" vibes (and I liked their friendship a lot) so her acting all sad about him treating her as such was strange. Was that supposed to be the idea, that she really liked him this whole time but sabotaged it by acting too much like a friend? Also, I noticed she got on her phone when he left... I hope she wasn't badmouthing him on Twitter or something.

Liam and his revolving door of love interests are rather dull but now they've got what looks to be some promising drama with him and Robert. There seemed to be a bit of jealousy there before but now that Liam was finally prepared to become King (and started dating Robert's girlfriend), it should cause a lot of turmoil. It won't happen but I wish Liam would go off the rails (underground fighting barely counts, lol). He's such an uptight, moral dude... I want to see him get Eleanor-level wild. But I think Robert's the one who might go batshit after his ordeal.

Funny how Robert made his way to the castle with no one questioning him or alerting the press. You'd think the castle would be going nuts. He's much older than I expected him to be... maybe he should keep the longer hair and/or the beard, I thought it made him look a bit younger.

Cyrus... well, he deserves to be miserable. Not a fan of Sara Alice, or at least, not a fan of her getting so much screentime. Dial it back. Also (still) not a fan of Jasper/Eleanor but I did like Jasper a bit when he was with "Foxy," trying to write the love letter. "He thinks you have the body of a Greek god," as Mr. Hill left the room made me laugh.

I wasn't expecting that Christmas video at the end... wow. I mean, this show is campy as hell so it works but I was cringing (mainly in anticipation of William Moseley likely being awkward as hell... I was skipping around, was he in it?). But it was nice that they did it, a little gift for the holiday hiatus.

Edited December 19, 2016 by omgsowicked

[MaryHedwig]

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I get the feeling they're going to try & make it a battle between Robert & Liam for the crown, but how would that be? Robert is the eldest, he's the heir, how can there be a battle?

I agree. My only thought is that maybe someone may try to declare Robert incompetent....or a traitor.

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Funny how Robert made his way to the castle with no one questioning him or alerting the press

I thought the same thing....does he have a back-door key or something? Did he make his way up through the tunnels?

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Funny how Robert made his way to the castle with no one questioning him or alerting the press

Does Sara Alice now live in the castle with her uncle, Mr. Hill, just like Ophelia and her father did? If not, this is one hell of a long take-your-daughter-to-work day.

[njbchlover]

31 minutes ago, MaryHedwig said:

Does Sara Alice now live in the castle with her uncle, Mr. Hill, just like Ophelia and her father did? If not, this is one hell of a long take-your-daughter-to-work day.

I was wondering that, as well - did Mr. Hill accept the job as head of the royal security detail?  If so, than that would make sense as to why we keep seeing this annoyingly precocious little girl.  

[Lady Grump]

I can tolerate Sara Alice, for now. But the second we get the "Sara Alice Amber Alert" episode, I'll be typing off, in high dudgeon.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Lady Grump

[catrice2]

Gosh, I thought I would be the only one that was not really enjoying the "cute" little girl.  I would love for Helena and her assistant to get together, but overall I find her boring.  

I agree with comments from this thread and others....I don't know why but Liam does not interest me at all. Who was Willow calling/texting after she found out he had a girlfriend?   They both met the girl on the same day, and clearly she made the choice to be with Robert.  Why would you want to be with your brother's girlfriend, even if you think he is dead?  

I saw bits and pieces of I think season 2? so I am not sure about who the characters are and their backstories.  Why did everyone think Robert was dead, and how was he killed? 

I liked Max Brown as an actor in MI5 and it is a shame that he is already projected to be the "dark" sibling, with demons, or a secret life.  Every show he was on since MI 5 id not use him correctly (Beauty and the Beast, Sleepy Hollow) and I fear this one won't either.  He is much more interesting than High King Peter  (sorry I saw Prince  Caspian last night)  and I would like to see him, not Helena, taking on Cyrus.   Speaking of which, so far Cyrus has been boring.  I know they like comedy in this show, but something is off from the previous episodes that I saw.  

What happened to the Domino thing? 

[GaT]

12 hours ago, MsTree said:

Aw, I like little Sara Alice. She's like the British version of Trixie from Lucifer.

Sara Alice will never be as awesome as Trixie :-)

[Missy Vixen]

Sara Alice: Plot moppet. Enough already.

The writers on this show always take the easy way out. I realize it's not brain surgery, but come on. They introduce conflict and defang it minutes later. 

Queen Helena watching the "royalty" reality show was hilarious.

[kat165]

GaT, what did she do at the end of the xmas vid? I just remember her & Foxy in a quick
flash in beginning when Alex first comes into the larger room. I too think she's going to
be around for the rest of the season.

Good point about Liam/Robt, but maybe Robt has had time to think and may toss aside the
throne for the girl.

Something that occurred to be later on: WhosThatGirl, what specifically makes you think
that Katherine is still pining for Robt? I know she looks at his picture a lot (as does Liam!),
but she put it in a drawer, as if to signify that's the end of that. I'm not getting that she's
projecting but maybe I'm not looking close enough. Thanks!

Thanks, omg, I didn't know that. I knew he was going to be on the show, but I hadn't a clue
as to what he looks like or who he was going to be. The first several showings of that soap
I wasn't sure if that prince was a boy or a girl. Seemed to be a mix of both.

I also think you're onto something by saying Robt may go batshit after his ordeal. I don't
see him behaving as he did previously. If he became king it looked as though Katherine would
not be going with him - he'd either end the affair or have it continue to be secret (and what
kind of relationship is that for Katherine? Sounds pretty sucky.) I haven't been paying close
enough attention to Liam and Willow or any of his stable to notice the fine details, but I was
surprised to see Willow look disappointed that he wasn't intereste in her. I'd thought they
were strictly friends.

In the past, before we met Robert, the way Liam and Lenny talked about Robt made him sound
kind and protective. Now that he's actually here I don't get that sort of vibe from him at all.
The way he keeps referring to Liam as "Sparrow" sounds more like dig/put-down than a term
of affection.

Yeah, enough with that kid. And she's cluttering up my Jasper/Lenny time. She's not a good
enough actress to be cute or engaging or worthy of this much screen time. I hope to god she
never kids kidnapped so we have to suffer through that sort of ridiculous storyline (although,
yes, I realize we're not watching Masterpiece Theatre here!). I can see you thought the same
thing, Lady Grump!

I liked the Christmas vid. It camera panned around so fast the only other characters I caught
(aside from Jasper/Eleanor) were Queenie, Cyrus in a wheelchair dressed like Scrooge, Foxy
and the kid. Didn't notice anyone else. They all seemed to be having a good time.

I'm guessing Robt made his way through the tunnels.

Catrice, Robt was in the military, flying helicopters maybe? Whatever, he was in the military
and another soldier was paid to shoot him down, paid by Domino - or perhaps Cyrus (which
would make sense), I think. He confessed this to Liam in season 2. At least that's what I recall.
He was presumed dead when the show first began. It might have even been announced in the
first ep. There might have been a funeral. It's all rather vague now!

And it looks like Domino was dropped once Cyrus dropped the main guy into the river in an
earlier ep this season.

[kat165]

Another thing I've noticed and that I really like because it's kind of charming and goofy is the (to my mind anyway) "American touch/spin" Tom Austen's been putting on Jasper. Two instances: when he went into the tunnels and did that little "yes" dance when it seemed that things were improving with Lenny & that Foxy showed to her and his general demeanor in Foxy's office when he was telling him how their next letter to Lenny should go, the way he was bouncing around and gesturing with his hands/fists - that's not a typically British way of behaving or physically moving.

Off the top of my head I'm not coming up with any other instances but there has been one or two more. He only seems to do this when Jasper is speaking with an American accent & I'm really impressed with his acting in these instances.

[catrice2]

Is Jasper American or spent time in America?  Is it worth going back and watching Seasons 1 and 2?  I mean, this is funny, campy escapism and I think I kind of know what is going on.  I am not sure how Helena fits in to the picture, and what happened to Joan Collins? It seems as if I saw her in an episode. 

[methodwriter85]

Weird thought going on in my head- what if Eleanor is ultimately meant to be queen, and Liam/Robert are basically going to wind up nullifying each other? I think it's clear that Robert went batshit crazy, and it also seems like he wasn't quite the pure lionheart they made him out to be and he was highly idealized. For some reason, when Jasper talked about what he loves about her, I wondered if we're actually laying the roadwork for this to happen. (If the show manages to survive.)

Jasper is supposed to be from Las Vegas. But it's been vague if that's actually true, or total b.s.

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It's feels like they decided last season was a mistake, & they're just going to fix what they can, & pretend the rest didn't happen. What about Helena's big plot to become ruler of the country? Wasn't that the reason for the whole "Liam & Eleanor are illegitimate" storyline? They've already dumped the Domino plot, & gotten Liam a new girl, now all they have to do is find a way to pretend that one of the cousins didn't have all that plastic surgery, & they can bring them back.

Yeah, this season basically feels like a big reset. You can tell the budget got cut because there are far less characters now, and you don't see nearly as many crowd or outdoor scenes as you did during the first two years. The vibe of the show has shifted- it seems to be more about how the main characters relate to each other and less about the grandeur. I think the cousins have been nixed because of budget reasons. (And honestly, they wouldn't jibe with the current toned down feel of the show.) Although I wouldn't put it past the show to have the cousins come back sans the plastic surgery, with the cousin basically saying that she preferred her original face.

I really like the general direction of the show right now. Kind of a shame this might be the last season. That's probably why they brought Robert back. If the show had been doing better, the reveal probably would have dragged out to season 4 or season 5.

I will say though that Mark does seem to have a knack for saving his show when it's on the brink...One Tree Hill had several points where it could have been cancelled but he got it to last almost a decade. You can tell there was a major retooling he and his crew had to come up with to keep the show going.

[kat165]

Catrice, yes, it's worth going back, just to see what came before/catch up on background of certain characters.. However, be warned that a lot of storylines were dropped for no apparent reason. Joan Collins played Helena's mother. She's been in only a handful of episodes. We haven't seen her this season yet.

Helena is the queen and was involved more in the first 2 seasons than she has
so far been in this season.

Interesting thought, methodwriter. I have a hard time picturing Eleanor as the
queen though. However, the current queen is also hard to imagine being suitable
for the crown!

Another good point about the budget cut. I hadn't noticed because I'm more
interested in some of the storylines rather than the opulant scenary. I also thought
perhaps they were going more with character studies rather than setting the scene
which they did in the first 2 seasons. But budget cuts explains it better!

So is the show not doing well? I like the general direction now too. It's more focused
rather than having so many characters, many of whom I had no interest in. I do think
that they always intended to bring Robt back and that this is not some last ploy to
keep the show going.

I hope Mark does manage to keep the show going. I never watched One Tree Hill but
his managing to keep that show on longer bodes well.

[methodwriter85]

I think Robert was always going to come back, but I think it might have been a season or two later than it happened once the show realized that season 2 wasn't doing so hot. I think the original plan was that Liam was going to be revealed as the rightful king in season 3/season 4, and then Robert comes back after Liam settled in. The main argument for the fact that Robert was always coming back was the fact that they were always vague about Robert's death they never showed his body in a casket, and most importantly, they never even showed a picture of him! That meant they couldn't just get someone to take a picture as Robert, because they were always going to cast him somewhere down the line.

The end of season 2 and the first 3 episodes of this season just screams of re-writes and re-toolings. I agree that this show is basically doing everything they can to pretend that Season 2 didn't happen. They tried to be "bigger", and it failed, so it's going the other direction. I really have liked it, so eh.

Anyway, Damien Hurley is his mother's clone! It's so adorable. The kid's 14 and he has a lot of room to grow, if he decides he wants this path. This is nepotism done right- giving the kid a shallow, fun little role that he can't possibly mess up. He apparently has spent a lot of time on set as well.

Edited December 22, 2016 by methodwriter85

[kat165]

If season 2 didn't do well I'm wondering how they were able to come back for
season 3. And yes, I did notice that we never saw a picture of Robt. To be honest,
I'm not that crazy about the casting of Robt. I think they could have done better.
This Robt really doesn't seem worthy of the hero worship hinted at in seasons 1 &
2. He's kind of smug.

If things are happening faster than previously scheduled that seems to indicate that
they know where they're going with the main storylines. Hopefully. Some shows start
out with such promise and then get completely lost as they wind down (and no, that's
not an intentional pun about the show "Lost" which I didn't watch, although it could be
as it's - or so I've heard - a good example).

I thought Damien Hurley did a great job as the spoiled tv prince. Probably wasn't as
easy a role to play as it looked. Good for him. Eliz. must be proud! Bring him back when
his voice changes. :)

[methodwriter85]

I'm guessing the budget cut was a big part of getting the green light for season 3. So was the obvious re-tooling. So far it's working for me.

[grisgris]

I'm just going with the flow with this show. A lot of it doesn't make any sense, but that's OK.  I just take it as one ensemble cast event week by week and no longer look for any continuity and just view it as good campy fun.

That said, I also don't like that little girl as the narrator for Eleanor and Jasper. They don't need that as they are really the only interesting people on the show, other than Cyrus (for me.) I also like Mr. Hill. He is so much an improvement over Ophelia's father.

Liam is dull as dust and I couldn't care less about him and his women.  Maybe Robert's return will kick some spark into him.  I thought that Katherine keeping the photo of Robert and her in the dresser drawer was either because she believes he's dead and it also symbolizes how she can never be part of his very public life. I dunno. Got me. Kate Middleton found out a way to make it work. Borrow from that, writers!

I loved the "Winter Wonderland" video at the end. It was perfect and if that was Alexandra Park singing, she was very good. A lot of effort went into that by Tom Austen and her.  Liam and Robert were on for about one second. They were in the doorway when Eleanor entered that big room. They were having a tug-of-war over a big crown, which ended up on Eleanor's head. She then acted like she was going to hand it to Cyrus (who was dressed like Scrooge and sitting in a wheelchair) but she passed it along to one of the dancers in the Santa suits.  Mr. Hill and the little girl were sitting on a park bench and were covered in snow and Eleanor passed them a present. Elizabeth Hurley was also in it for a flash. She was stunning in a red strapless sheath dress.

IMO, those last two minutes were better than the entire hour of the regular show.

[methodwriter85]

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Liam and Robert were on for about one second. They were in the doorway when Eleanor entered that big room. They were having a tug-of-war over a big crown, which ended up on Eleanor's head.

I think that is the foreshadowing of the series- Eleanor becomes queen. I can't shake that feeling that this is where things will eventually end up if it's allowed to go on longer than 3 seasons.

[kat165]

I love that idea, method. :)