S01.E03: Of Cabbages And Kings

[Tara Ariano]

Ben is betrayed by his own militia while on the run from the British; Abe and Richard travel to New York; Mary confronts Anna.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Dear tumbleweed: Here is what I wrote about the epifode.

[HalcyonDays]

Thank you for that recap, Sarah D. Bunting, because you answered one question I had. Why on earth did Caleb tell Anna and Abe that Capt. Simcoe was dead? I have to rewatch his scenes because I was like "Wait, Caleb was with Ben and a very much alive Simcoe (who was snarking away in that cart). It made no sense at the time. Still makes little sense, only because to think Abe should have some brains to know that things happen (can go wrong) and maybe someone could get away.

Also those four brothers who were angry Caleb left and immediately are like 'mutiny', maybe it's better off they are gone - sheesh, one whiff of something off and they go running to the hills, so to speak.

Thought Mary alone in the house with semi-shirtless (yet cute) Redcoat was strange - was expecting something to happen and though, isn't this inapproriate for the times??

Mary then telling Anna she can go ahead and have affair with Abe, just be discreet? Okay...

Will say feel a bit sorry for Mary - obviously Abe loves his kid, but she is neglected by him, which is sad.

The biggest hmmm...Daddy Woodhull making some crack about some barmaids cleavage. Totally took me out of the moment, it just did not fit at all. Like people talking Shakespearian English, then throwing in a sentence with heavy modern slang. Out of place.

I get that they have to set up more of the reasoning as to why Abe and co. need to spy. I mean, yes, the British are bastards, but one is risking death spying against them, so there needs to be good reason to risk ones life. Abe is not military and obviously cares only about his kid, so is taking a big risk doing what he's doing.

Still find some of the story hard to follow, and they never seem to introduce characters by name, so I have a hard time knowing who is who. At least the dialogue is easier to understand.

Oh, and for a villian - Simcoe is the best!

Edited April 21, 2014 by HalcyonDays

[Charlotte Vale]

Does anyone else look at Simcoe and see Hugh Laurie as Prince George in Blackadder?

[Ina123]

I agree about poor character introduction. I get confused who is whom constantly. I record it and watch again to understand. It sounds like I don't enjoy the show but I do. I care about the history and I want to follow.

[Dagny]

Abe marrying Ana after his older brother dies. Very old Testament like. Naming the kid after the older brother? I'm surprised no one started trying to pass the kid off as the older brother's kid.

[Ujio]

 

Abe marrying Ana after his older brother dies.

You mean Mary, right?  I guess it happened quite frequently back then.  I'd love more back story on Thomas' death.

I think this episode was much better.  It was actually -- interesting.  I missed Rogers, but Ben's storyline made up for the lack of Rogers.

My only gripe is the oh-so-60's green screen!  When Caleb was rowing away from shore, I thought for a moment that I was watching It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World...  Yikes.

[Dagny]

You mean Mary, right?

 

I swear, it's easier just calling them by physical description, job or relationship. Dad, wife, barmaid, fat good guy,  fat bad guy.

I still don't know the difference between the captured red coat and the red coat that recruited the actress.

[Haleth]

The guy who recruited the actress was John Andre. He was a real person, a very charismatic British officer who was involved in spying on the colonists. I believe he recruited Benedict Arnold as well.

The captured guy is named Simcoe <sp?>, I don't know if he was real or not.

[Ujio]

 

The captured guy is named Simcoe <sp?>, I don't know if he was real or not.

 

Well, he was, indeed!

I agree that it's easier to refer to the characters not by name but by physical appearance/profession.  But which "side" they're on gets tricky, right?  Every character's allegiance seems to be faltering.  I wouldn't be surprised if a major character was revealed to be a double- or triple-agent in the end!

[bunnyblue]

 

My only gripe is the oh-so-60's green screen!  When Caleb was rowing away from shore, I thought for a moment that I was watching It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World...  Yikes.

Yikes is right! That quality of that CGI belonged in a 1980's film, not on cable television in 2014. It was so jarringly awful it took me out of the scene.

I'm still not sure what is going on in this show. Is Abraham's father loyal to the Crown or sympathetic to the Patriots? Does he suspect Abe of being a spy? The show needs to pick up the pace.

While I didn't like Captain Simcoe's creeper scenes with Anna in the first episode, I'm now very much enjoying his snarky scenes as Ben's prisoner. I loved his clapping while tied to the tree and then his shit-eating grin as he watched Ben get reprimanded by his superior. And all while still wearing his messed up wig. I think Simcoe should be in the background of all scenes adding his awesome reaction shots. Liven up this humorless show.

[HalcyonDays]

Yikes is right! That quality of that CGI belonged in a 1980's film, not on cable television in 2014. It was so jarringly awful it took me out of the scene.

I'm still not sure what is going on in this show. Is Abraham's father loyal to the Crown or sympathetic to the Patriots? Does he suspect Abe of being a spy? The show needs to pick up the pace.

While I didn't like Captain Simcoe's creeper scenes with Anna in the first episode, I'm now very much enjoying his snarky scenes as Ben's prisoner. I loved his clapping while tied to the tree and then his shit-eating grin as he watched Ben get reprimanded by his superior. And all while still wearing his messed up wig. I think Simcoe should be in the background of all scenes adding his awesome reaction shots. Liven up this humorless show.

 

The CGI was terrible and for me too, it took me out of the scene. It was so obviously. What also bothered me was Caleb throwing the rowers over the edge of the boat when he was still visible to the Redcoats at the dock. Why didn't he wait a bit more, they row out a bit, then boom, ambush the two men.

 

From what I can see, Abe's father is on the side of the British. He's doing business with them and cozying up to the higher up's. We don't know if he's 100% loyal to the Crown. I get the impression he's loyal to the British only because its aids his business dealings and keeps him wealthy and with power friends.

 

Regarding Simcoe, I agree about the creeper scenes, but then all of a sudden, he became Snark-Central and its funny. Makes a scene. I think soon though, we are going to see scenes of Simcoe being a evil bastard once he's free. I like his character though and Ben Tallmadge also. They both seem a bit more complex.

 

Trivia: Some of the people who've done costuming for Sleepy Hollow (the flashbacks to the 1770s) are doing the costuming for Turn.

Edited April 23, 2014 by HalcyonDays

[Charlotte Vale]

I think Simcoe should be in the background of all scenes adding his awesome reaction shots.

 

I think Simcoe should be in the background of all TV shows, and most movies, adding his awesome reaction shots.

[bunnyblue]

 

I think soon though, we are going to see scenes of Simcoe being a evil bastard once he's free.

Yeah, I fully expect Simcoe to return to his evil ways soon enough. He won't be as much fun to watch when that happens. Just keep him away from Anna, please.

[green]

Who knew Simcoe would be the major breakout star of the series so far.  And thanks to this board for giving me a name to put to him.

 

The series has been poorly written and the pace is horrid so far but it is history and to have Robert Rogers of the old Rogers' Rangers and Major Andre pop up already keeps me sloughing along with this show.

 

Sad to see the Pennsylvania militia brothers all killed.  Especially the youngest.  Fear can take hold of people and to be the furthermost they ever have been from their home and to see the defeated survivors from Fort Lee in full retreat and hear the rumor that Washington had been killed is enough to unnerve most people.  There were a lot of desertions from the Continental Army as well as the countless irregular militia groups like theirs that fought with it.  It was a rough war.  No tour of duty rotations alongside highly trained troops with superior weapons.  Just the possibility of an endless war against one of the world's greatest armies of the day with either starvation or imprisonment or a musket ball tearing you to pieces to look forward to.  They should have just taken off rather then try to shoot the two officers since that made no sense.  You don't have to turn in a British officer for a Get Out of Jail Free card.  You just have to run for the hills and make your way back home.  But still their reaction to abandoning the cause wasn't totally that rare for the day.  And it was a nice touch to make you feel how hard and scary the risks and hardships these men and boys faced back then.

 

So the newly formed spy ring has made it's first big score by finding out the Hessians are going to Trenton so that Washington will cross the Delaware eventually and win his most famous battle.  And all of this is because of sauerkraut.  History is fun.

[Haleth]

So the newly formed spy ring has made it's first big score by finding out the Hessians are going to Trenton so that Washington will cross the Delaware eventually and win his most famous battle.  And all of this is because of sauerkraut.  History is fun.

 

I was just thinking about this this morning, and that no one had mentioned Abe's nifty spy work to get that information.  Who knew a little pickled cabbage was all that was needed to get the colonists their first major victory?

[MissScarlett]

I really like this show!  The writers certainly know their history.  I think the pace is going to pick up soon enough. 

 

Snarky Simcoe is interesting to watch!  I keep feeling like there's this cloud of doom hanging over Anna's head as we know he will return soon.

 

Interesting that Anna prompted Caleb to lie to Abe concerning Simcoe.  To clarify... Anna knows that Simcoe is still alive, yes?  That was my take away from the scene.  I think she wants Abe to keep spying.

 

Mary's reaction to handsome redcoat makes me think that she's not all that in love with Abe. "Loveless Triangle" indeed, Sarah D. Bunting!  Was her "pro-affair" message to Anna sparked because she plans on having one of her own?  I kind of thought she would tell Anna to back-off.

 

Abe's father is clearly an opportunist and a loyalist.  He's going to ride the redcoat train as far as it will take him.

 

Ben Tallmadge is dreamy.  There, I said it.

[not Bridget]

"Hessians in Trenton" was hardly a big secret.  Once New Jersey was occupied, the identities of various British & Hessian units guarding the state were well known to everybody.  But I guess the show had to give the Culpers something to do--since Tallmadge didn't get them together until 1778 & the show is still in 1776.  The Real Abraham's father was a Patriot--not a Loyalist.  

[Hanahope]

Just started watching this show.  I DVRd all the episodes during the marathon on Sunday and got through episode 3 so far.  I agree that its been rather slow-going, but since I don't have to wait a whole week for each new episode, for the moment at least, I will keep watching.

 

I have to admit that its hard telling all the redcoat/white hairs apart, so the more they kill/distinguish them, the better.  I've got Simcoe down at least.

 

I do like that the show is depicting that there were not very nice people on both sides of the war, that our 'freedom fighters' where not necessarily the most moral, good, virtuous people, but just regular men, trying to win a war by pretty much any means necessary. 

[kassa]

The Real Abraham's father was a Patriot--not a Loyalist.

 

 

And the real Simcoe was apparently a wonderful person, respected by both sides for being fair and kind.  Historians are unhappy that he's been made this level of villain.  I always wonder that myself about historical dramas.  As much as I love them, I don't get why they don't just make up a character rather than assassinate the character of somebody who has an actual historical record of being a pretty good guy.  It's not like most of us ever heard of him, so using a different name would hardly make a difference.   

 

Puff up the good qualities of your historical heroes if you must, but you really shouldn't make monsters out of people who weren't even considered bad guys at the time. 

 

Maybe Abraham's father will eventually turn, or reveal he's been a Patriot all along. 

[tabloidlover]

 

Maybe Abraham's father will eventually turn, or reveal he's been a Patriot all along.

This is the gut feeling I have.  I go back and forth, but I think in the end, we will discover he is a Patriot.  I think he is too cowardly to give up his status and wealth by taking a stand.  This is just based on the show, so does anyone have knowledge of the true historical facts surrounding Abe's father?

 

 

[ganesh]

Oh, no way. He's making money off the war and he's quite enjoying the position he's in. He turns Patriot if and only if the rebel side is assured of victory. 

Edited June 1, 2014 by ganesh