This Is Our Social & Cultural Issues Thread

[Guest]

I'm a little uncomfortable with the twin stories of 'poor, disadvantaged black folk can't even afford to keep their own babies', with Randall and now Deja. 

And that name Deja should win the Anvil Award.  

[BoogieBurns]

On 3/12/2018 at 10:14 PM, methodwriter85 said:

Particularly Kevin. He just feels so embarrassingly young for a guy who's 37. I cringed so hard when he stayed for a bit at Rebecca's house and wanted to eat his favorite cereals from the late 1980's like Cookie Crisp. And his ill-fated pursuit of his childhood sweetheart in general just struck me as a guy who is really emotionally young.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 7:06 AM, GSMHvisitor said:

And I had no problem that he got nostalgic about the cereal he liked as a kid for a moment. It happens to me too with lots of stuff I re-encounter as an adult.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 7:32 AM, JudyObscure said:

 I think the main point with Kevin wanting his childhood foods, as well as wanting his mother, was just the need to comfort himself while going through withdrawal.  Sugar also hits that opioid spot in the brain which is doing all the craving.

I'm grown, but being in my mom's house (not my childhood home, but the closest thing to it) makes me act like I'm 17. Everything about the smells and atmosphere makes me a little immature brat again. I eat like a kid, I ask Mom to bring me water, I forget to help clean the dishes, I hog the remote. None of those things happen when I'm visiting other people's houses. Something about spending several days around my mom puts me in a time machine. I'm sure she LOVES it. Haha.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Charter schools can’t charge tuition or limit admission based on skills, but some of them here skirt those rules by having a “voluntary” annual donation of thousands of dollars by parents, and they collect on it likes it a bill.  They also will test students into lower grades if they’re not top performers, which deters all but the top kids from going there.  The work load and pace also deter all but the elite, college prep crowd.  

It’s kind of interesting how they’re self-segregating, while not violating the letter of the law.  And that they skim off the top students and then use their superior test scores to claim it’s a better education.  This isn’t all charter schools, just a certain subset, like the BASIS schools.  

Even if a charter school does none of those things, there are still enrollment limits and waiting lists, lotteries, etc.   Not every kid is going to get in, which is a problem. 

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Is that a problem where you live?  I don't think it is here.  The charter schools here tend to be addressing certain populations like the kids with behavioral issues or the college prep crowd above, so there's not a huge demand for them, really.  And if there was, competitors or the existing players could just open more charter schools to meet the unmet demand, which is how it should be.  It might work differently in each state, though.  

I know there were big complaints in a neighboring state about public funds being taken out of the "regular" schools and being diverted to charter schools.  So, I don't think they could just open more to meet demand.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Is that a problem where you live?  I don't think it is here.  The charter schools here tend to be addressing certain populations like the kids with behavioral issues or the college prep crowd above, so there's not a huge demand for them, really.  And if there was, competitors or the existing players could just open more charter schools to meet the unmet demand, which is how it should be.  It might work differently in each state, though.  

Yes, it is a problem in poor urban schools.  There are waiting lists and lotteries for the "good" ones, that is, legitimate ones that produce results.  New ones pop up, fly-by-night style, to be sure.  Fraud and waste are a big problem with these.  So a kid like Deja might be wait-listed for a good school, or end up in an under-performing sketchy one whose administrator pays him/herself megabucks, then folds. 

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

But the schools only get funds on a set, per-student basis, so it's going to the public school or the charter school one way or the other.  The cost to the state is the same if there are 10 schools or 1000, because the number of students is fixed.  The state should be neutral.  The best, most demanded school type should get the dollars and the students.  

Ideally it should work that way but there is lax oversight and the market forces just don't work that well.  They may be public schools but are often run by third-party for-profit outfits and all the good and bad that goes with that.

[JudyObscure]

I'm thrilled to see that AMC is going to make a mini-series from the book, "Dietland".  I read it when it first came out and it is some very cool,  radical feminism with a strong fat acceptance message.  It should make for some great discussion on Previously.  I'm only sorry that Chrissy Metz is busy starring in "This is Us," and not available for the lead because she would have been so perfect.

[Guest]

Good to know!  I love Marti Noxon.  

[BoogieBurns]

On 3/28/2018 at 11:20 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

The charter schools here tend to be addressing certain populations like the kids with behavioral issues or the college prep crowd above, so there's not a huge demand for them, really. 

 

On 3/28/2018 at 1:19 PM, ShadowFacts said:

There are waiting lists and lotteries for the "good" ones, that is, legitimate ones that produce results.  New ones pop up, fly-by-night style, to be sure.  Fraud and waste are a big problem with these. 

Charter schools where I live are just the worst. They are basically scams. The kids all have so much trouble when they age out (most here are kinder through 6th grade) and switch to public. My niece, who is 7, does not know the alphabet and they have allowed her to move on to first then second grade. Yes, my stepsister should have taught her the alphabet, but the school should not have second graders who don't know the letter X. She doesn't even know how to hold a pencil. She does not have learning disabilities, as she has been repeatedly tested. But when her parents had an issue with the principal at the charter school, they moved her to a public school. Now she is in Special Ed because that is the only way they can justify her being a second grader. 

I put 80% of the blame on my lazy step sister who speaks to her children less often than I speak to my dog. But 20% of this is the fault of charter schools having no requirements for who they hire and having too much flexibility on lesson plans. They set kids up for failure. Also, this is in an upper middle class neighborhood, so there is no reason to avoid the safe and resource-rich public schools in their district. #RantOver

[Katy M]

Re: the IVF

Quote

The informed consent would have to include a discussion of how Kate's size would complicate the procedure, make it much more technically difficult and perhaps not even possible.  She should also have been informed that she is far more likely to suffer 'normal' complications like infections, bleeding and anesthesia complications.  A while back, I mentioned the serious complications a woman of Kate's size will be at risk for during pregnancy and, I personally think that any infertility specialist caring for a woman with significant risks in pregnancy needs to be frank with that woman about the fact that getting pregnant doesn't guarantee a happy outcome.  I would certainly have told Kate that her current size makes the procedure much more technically difficult and is one of the reasons she has a such a low chance of success.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-unhealthy-is-it-for-overweight-women-to-go-through-ivf

Quote

Although it’s important for healthcare providers to inform patients of these risks, too many of them do so in a way that contributes to weight-related stigma, Sharon Bernicki DeJoy, PhD, MPH, an associate professor of public health at West Chester University in Pennsylvania, told Healthline.

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2018/09/210947/ivf-this-is-us-kate-weight-fertility-treatment

Quote

Although this was just one episode and one fictional story, it paints a larger picture of the very real weight bias that obese and overweight patients experience from their doctors and healthcare providers. Research has shown that when people experience weight discrimination from doctors, they are more likely to delay or stop going to the doctor. It will be interesting to see how Kate's fertility story develops over the course of this season of This Is Us. Hopefully, she'll end up finding a doctor who hears her concerns, respects her decisions, and is willing to help her.

So, the second quote is from an article directly relating the episode, although from the last line one has to wonder if the author watched the entire episode since the doctor did agree to help her at the end.  Looks like from these two quotes from the articles, though, that doctors have to walk a fine line between being honest and not "not helpful".

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, Katy M said:

Re: the IVF

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-unhealthy-is-it-for-overweight-women-to-go-through-ivf

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2018/09/210947/ivf-this-is-us-kate-weight-fertility-treatment

So, the second quote is from an article directly relating the episode, although from the last line one has to wonder if the author watched the entire episode since the doctor did agree to help her at the end.  Looks like from these two quotes from the articles, though, that doctors have to walk a fine line between being honest and not "not helpful".

Although I generally agree with the article (and I am obese myself), they keep calling Kate ‘overweight’.  She is in an entirely different category and her risks are well beyond those of the ‘typical’ overweight woman.  The article also says that the doctor not only should tell the ‘overweight’ patient about the additional risks presented, but also tell her what the doctor is going to do to prevent all of them.  There are some things that can be done to prevent complications, but, ultimately, Kate is facing much higher risks than other women and no amount of preventive measures is going to mitigate that.  In Kate’s case, the doctor might need to somehow obtain a custom set of instruments costing tens of thousands, if they could even be found.  That is not realistic. Perhaps enlisting the assistance of a surgeon and surgical team who work doing gastric bypass could be done, but, who pays them?  Kate’s Insurance isn’t picking up that tab.

BTW, mitigating risks might also be the reason Kate needed risky general anesthesia rather than sedation.  Obese people Kate’s size usually have sleep apnea and sedating her will put her at risk of lack of oxygenation because her chest and abdomen are so heavy, she won’t be able to properly ventilate herself.  Giving her general anesthesia so a tube can be put in her throat to manage her airway and prevent catastrophic problems, but it has other risks which is why it is usually avoided.  In Kate’s case, that is just one example of the sort of trade offs that have to be made, and, once again, will drive up costs on the procedure for her; costs that may not be covered by insurance and she and Toby will have to cover.

The article does state that IVF clinics usually have weight limits for patients due to the risks, but that these can sometimes be waived.  In Kate’s case, I expect she is at least 100 lbs beyond their weight limits and it would be unlikely the rules could be waived for her. And, not to be too pessimistic, but, if Kate suffers a serious complication, the malpractice suit is going to be massive as is the hospital’s investigation into it (hospitals keep track of complications and look for ways to prevent them).  Kate’s doctor is going to have a tough time justifying performing an elective surgery on such a risky patient, no matter how much she wanted it and it would potentially seriously damage her career if things go wrong. Lots of people would be questioning her professional judgment.

[methodwriter85]

I'm dropping down to just reading the comments on the board and apparently Tess admitted she could see herself having a girlfriend. Not too surprised. I did kind of feel like they were going there. Didn't Randall call her his baby dyke in the pilot when she scored at her soccer game? (Although I think that got bleeped in later airings.)

[Morlock]

Going back to the first season now and going on memory but I found it interesting and gutsy given the times we live in to show the racism and judgement they received from black people. If I remember correctly their was even some judge who didn't want to give them custody of Randall because they weren't black and then you had the scene at the pool where the black people were criticizing them for not cutting Randall's hair properly. 

I found that all of that interesting given Randall's black parents gave him up in the first place. You get a lot of that theme running through the show. In the most recent ep Deja is all upset that the "White teachers" feel she can skip a grade. It isn't said but I feel it is implied that she feels the "white teachers" are feeling sorry for her or are too scared to be called racist or something so are trying to give her an unfair advantage. I also get the impression she is racist. 

[PRgal]

On 3/11/2019 at 12:31 AM, Morlock said:

Going back to the first season now and going on memory but I found it interesting and gutsy given the times we live in to show the racism and judgement they received from black people. If I remember correctly their was even some judge who didn't want to give them custody of Randall because they weren't black and then you had the scene at the pool where the black people were criticizing them for not cutting Randall's hair properly. 

I found that all of that interesting given Randall's black parents gave him up in the first place. You get a lot of that theme running through the show. In the most recent ep Deja is all upset that the "White teachers" feel she can skip a grade. It isn't said but I feel it is implied that she feels the "white teachers" are feeling sorry for her or are too scared to be called racist or something so are trying to give her an unfair advantage. I also get the impression she is racist. 

But technically, Deja isn't skipping a grade.  She's already a year older than most of the kids in her class.  But she's also old enough to have input and if she doesn't feel ready, then she doesn't feel ready.  

I don't think Deja has ever been praised for her work before, so this is kind of new to her.  

[Morlock]

5 minutes ago, PRgal said:

But technically, Deja isn't skipping a grade.  She's already a year older than most of the kids in her class.  But she's also old enough to have input and if she doesn't feel ready, then she doesn't feel ready.  

I don't think Deja has ever been praised for her work before, so this is kind of new to her.  

Yeah I know that is what makes it odder. She has made up for what she missed out on. But I also get her point, she has had a lot of disruption in her life. Keeping her back meant that she lost pace with her group of class mates, now by advancing her to where she was supposed to be she will lose track of her current classmates not to mention fitting in again with her old ones. I know it might be a different school too but you know what I mean. 

In the end, for her it is the system screwing with her again. I think she has had enough. Praise would be new to her but having a personal essay posted online isn't a good thing. I am a little like her personality wise and I would be pissed off. I too would just want to be left alone. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Morlock

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, Morlock said:

Yeah I know that is what makes it odder. She has made up for what she missed out on. But I also get her point, she has had a lot of disruption in her life. Keeping her back meant that she lost pace with her group of class mates, now by advancing her to where she was supposed to be she will lose track of her current classmates not to mention fitting in again with her old ones. I know it might be a different school too but you know what I mean. 

She's not in the same school district, so she wouldn't be catching up with her friends in that vein. It would just be a whole other set of kids.  And, unless the teachers are actually having her do the 8th grade work now, which I would think she would know if she were, this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[qtpye]

I think this is a fairly loving article about some of the issues involved when living with an obese spouse and even a small mention of how the dynamic changes when the spouse loses weight.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/woman-shares-struggle-of-living-with-obese-spouse-i-lost-myself-taking-care-of-him/ar-AATzKRc?li=BBnb7Kz

[SunnyBeBe]

On 2/7/2022 at 8:18 PM, qtpye said:

I think this is a fairly loving article about some of the issues involved when living with an obese spouse and even a small mention of how the dynamic changes when the spouse loses weight.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/woman-shares-struggle-of-living-with-obese-spouse-i-lost-myself-taking-care-of-him/ar-AATzKRc?li=BBnb7Kz

This confirms how stressful it would be raising kids with a morbidly obese person.  On the show, they don’t deal with the reality of Kate as a parent to toddlers, imo.  How would she be able to bathe them in a bathtub?   I can’t imagine it.  Mother’s are culturally considered to be capable, but to me on TIU, Toby was just as capable….more in fact because he got healthy.