S02.E11: eps2.9_pyth0n-pt1.p7z

[Hanahope]

This show is getting more and more strange.  Angela's bit with the little girl and Whiterose was a big wtf with me.  Obviously Whiterose told her something that made her feel fine with what's going on and that she didn't need a lawyer, or apparently need to fear the fbi.  I'm dying to know what that is.

And yes, the questions about Tyrell remain as ever.  

Can't wait for next week.

I do think Darlene survived, that's who Dom wants to interview.  Frankly, I thought the rest of Dom's scene was pretty useless.  Really have to wonder about people that personify inanimate objects.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Game Recognizes Game On Mr. Robot

The episode's best scene comments on the show's worst instincts.

[Cardie]

11 hours ago, green said:

Sorry.  I didn't mean to imply Linda Hunt's character was transgender. Just male.  And Asian (Indonesian).  Just meant actors like to play all kinds of roles outside the norm they usually play and some like Linda Hunt in that role have been outstanding in my opinion.

I was replying to Milaxx, who had implied that the Hunt role would have been played by a trans actor today or there would have been criticism.

[Milaxx]

16 minutes ago, Cardie said:

I was replying to Milaxx, who had implied that the Hunt role would have been played by a trans actor today or there would have been criticism.

That's wasn't my point. Hunt's character in the movie isn't trans. I was speaking on the concern that BD Wong appeared to have regarding playing a trans character. 

[green]

1 hour ago, Milaxx said:

That's wasn't my point. Hunt's character in the movie isn't trans. I was speaking on the concern that BD Wong appeared to have regarding playing a trans character. 

Wow guess we have been talking in circles some.  Though I find it sad that this actor, BD Wong, had to have concerns like that.  Jobbing actors have a tough enough time getting gigs to have to deal with this stuff.

OT: But I guess that has gone on forever in Hollywood.  I remember playing a "follow the link" game I do sometimes online starting with some topic but keep clicking an off link to something entirely different etc etc and see where I'm at like 30 clicks later.  In this one I somehow ended up at an old movie site reading a quote by of all people Charlton Heston saying he was extremely hesitant to say yes to the role of Moses back in the 50's because he wasn't Jewish.  He actually went out and contacted some Jewish advocate groups and such and after learning they wouldn't be "offended" a gentile played Moses did he say yes to the role.  (We tend to forget that though Heston was politically conservative to say the least he was also somewhat culturally liberal for his time and even an activist of sorts during the civil rights marches etc.  Not everyone is a herd animal regards left and right and he had his moments).

Edited September 16, 2016 by green

[Milaxx]

4 hours ago, Hanahope said:

This show is getting more and more strange.  Angela's bit with the little girl and Whiterose was a big wtf with me.  Obviously Whiterose told her something that made her feel fine with what's going on and that she didn't need a lawyer, or apparently need to fear the fbi.  I'm dying to know what that is.

And yes, the questions about Tyrell remain as ever.  

Can't wait for next week.

I do think Darlene survived, that's who Dom wants to interview.  Frankly, I thought the rest of Dom's scene was pretty useless.  Really have to wonder about people that personify inanimate objects.

I can try an explain it.  For me the key to watching this show is to remember that Esmail seems to be placing non verbal clues as to what is really happening. From what I gather WhiteRose and  Price have been sort of  unwilling allies. WhiteRose appears to want to usher in a new world order or possibly parallel world and Price appears to simply want to rule it all. He wants to be god. WhiteRose & Price have been working together to dismantle the US as the ruling world power in order to accomplish their means.  A key element in all of that is whatever they are doing or producing at the Washington Township plant. This is the plant that produced such high radiation levels that at least 30 people  got cancer and died, including Elliot's dad and Angela's mom. With the help of Mr. Robot, Price's continued employment of her and her own dogged determination Angela has been able uncover evidence that Ecorp who owns the Washington township plant, not only were aware of the dangerously high radiation levels, but that they continue to be so. Angela wants to bring down Ecorp and expose the truth. WhiteRose does not want that.  I have my own speculation about that but suffice it to say that WhiteRose needs the plant to continued operating without governmental inspections. So far anyone or anything that has put WR/Price's plans at risk has died/disappeared or been destroyed. Season 1 the hard drives were destroyed and the store where Elliot brought them to WR was burned to the ground. Romero and Gideon were killed. Mobley and Trenton are missing, until recently this week, Tyrell was missing. Yet Angela is still alive 90 days past her expiration point. I think the house and the room were all designed as a way for WR to observe Angela and try and figure out why she is still alive.  Earlier this season WR referred to Angela as Price's little "pet project" . WR is basically telling Angela to not share her information, but she's not trying to scare her, she's trying to appear to her sense of morality or feelings of right vs wrong. She wants Angela to understand or believe that this is for the greater good of humanity. The "key" Angela has is her power or knowledge of the truth. Angela's response to the  question about the key was a quote from the novel Lolita in which the male character talks about having the key to the room where Lolita was. It symbolizes the power he has or thinks he has over her. 

[Cardie]

Does anyone know of the cultural meaning (if any) of white roses in China?

Yes, whatever WR is working on at the plant, she believes that when it comes to fruition, it will remake the world in ways conducive to the greater good of humanity. Is she as blithely blind to unintended consequences as fsociety was or will Esmail end up endorsing her vision? It will be interesting to find out.

[Milaxx]

20 minutes ago, Cardie said:

 

Does anyone know of the cultural meaning (if any) of white roses in China?

 

I know in the US they are associated with both death and purity. It's also an anagram of the word "Otherwise"

[Kalliste]

I also thought of LOST in this episode but less for time travel and more for a room with an old school computer in it. When Angela walked in I wondered whether they were going to make her sit there forever and push a button. #4815162342

[Milaxx]

Get LOST and The Matrix vibes from this series a lot. The time travel bit, the glitches, the repeating black SUV's. Also other sci fi series like Blade Runner as well.

[green]

7 hours ago, Cardie said:

Does anyone know of the cultural meaning (if any) of white roses in China?

Yes, whatever WR is working on at the plant, she believes that when it comes to fruition, it will remake the world in ways conducive to the greater good of humanity. Is she as blithely blind to unintended consequences as fsociety was or will Esmail end up endorsing her vision? It will be interesting to find out.

I doubt Esmail will end up doing that.  Whiterose is after all head of the Dark Army who go around brutally killing anyone from FBI agents on down to cover up what she is going. 

Ends and means.  Bad guys who think they are making a better world by their definition always forget the lesson of ends and means and, like the Stalins before them, embrace the concept that the ends justify the means.  They never ever do though.  And even if -- and it is a very big if -- the ends are suppose to actually be good originally they get so twisted up by the evil means that the ends end up corrupted and distorted and, well, pretty evil.

You can't play with other people's lives like they are pawns on your chess board and their lives don't matter.  Karma will bite you in the end for it.  Even if it takes years.  Karma is kind of more tortoise-like than hare-like; more home cooked meal than fast food but it always has it's way in the end.  Even if a dictator dies a natural death as soon as he is gone the "fruits" of his labors start to unravel pretty quickly because his power is gone from the world at that point.  Unless Whiterose is inventing a cure for death at that plant she will lose in the end eventually.

Edited September 17, 2016 by green

[Milaxx]

Keep in mind Esmail is purposely blurring the lines between who is the "bad guy" and who is the "good guy". He says as much in the theme song from that TGIF flashback ep. The first 2 lines are:

Quote

 

Used to be you could trust in the story

Vilify the villains and celebrate the heroes

 

At this point anything is possible.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Milaxx

[juliet73]

I'm glad you guys discussed transgender with WhiteRose.  This whole time I thought WR was biologically a man who wanted to be a woman.  It never occurred to me that she was a woman disguising as a man! 

I love this show!!!  

Edited September 17, 2016 by juliet73

[tankgirl73]

She *is* biologically a man. She's a "woman in a man's body", in other words, a trans woman. But she maintains her male physical appearance for her political work etc.  Before we knew the full story, we could have presumed it's a man, born male, living as male, with a female persona he adopts at some times for whatever reason (like a transvestite -- a cross dresser, people who enjoy dressing in drag and taking on characteristics of the other gender but do not fully feel that they *are* the other gender). But we now know it's a case of gender identity = female while physical body = male. To *her*, it *feels like* the male persona -- the body she was born with -- is not the real her. Thus it's a disguise *to her*. Her disguise is her actual natural-born physical body, the body that doesn't fit her inside self.

It's a pretty cool concept.

[Cardie]

The 8th and 25th rendezvous point essentially triangulates the locations of the two RL Chelsea bombs of last night. Spooky.

[thuganomics85]

Finally caught this one, and man, I don't know what to think anymore.  This whole show has gotten crazy.  At this point, I don't know what to believe and what not to believe.

For now at least, Tyrell seems to have finally return, although Elliot understandably wants to make sure he's actually real and not inside his head. Either he is or he was always alive, and has been working with Mr. Robot, and Mr. Robot has been hiding all this from Elliot for whatever reason. Anyway, it seems like Tyrell knows something about this "Phase 2" thing, so I'm sure fun times will be arriving shortly!

Turns out Angela's captures are working for Whiterose, who put her through a strange set of test, and then she and Whiterose has a big pow-wow, which I'm still not quite sure what to make of it, except B.D. Wong is captivating on screen and I hope he gets consideration for Guest Emmy next year.

Should have known they would drag out the Darlene reveal.  Still don't know the fate of the shoot-out and instead focus on Dom and the aftermath.  I still suspect Darlene will be alive.

Price's plan now seems to be getting E-money to basically take over for regular money.  Crafty!

It was hard to tell what Joanna was thinking about with whatever she saw on that phone.

Finale next week!  I still have no idea what to make of it!

[Misstify]

On 9/14/2016 at 11:14 PM, benteen said:

I noticed three songs from Back to the Future were played in this episode.  Earth Angel at the end.  While Angela was in the trucks, that saxophone music from the beginning of the Enchantment Under the Sea dance and Davey Crockett. 

Thank you.  I noticed the songs themselves but didn't connect it with Back to the Future (hey, it's been a while).  I just thought the van drivers had weird taste in music.

So when Angela entered the room with a Commodore 64 and phone, and then "little Angela" (as I think of her) entered, my first thought was, Angela's dreaming and that is her younger self.  But the Back to the Future music does raise the specter of time travel.  (noooooo)

The Q&A session with Angela actually made me think of the Turing Test (the test where a human submits questions to...someone...to try to determine from their answers whether they are human or machine).  And now I am starting to think...what if Angela is a machine of some sort?  I mean, according to Whiterose, she should be dead by now.  But she's not.  She's...still ticking.  And Whiterose is trying to figure out why.  I have felt for some time that there was something intentional behind Angela's blank stare and the way her face looks like a kewpie doll, pale hair pulled back so her face looks kind of naked, just big eyes and false eyelashes.  I wonder if the Angela we knew from season 1 is gone and this is a replacement of some sort?  (This also goes along with those comments upthread about the Blade Runner replicants).

ETA: wait, the company in Blade Runner was called the Tyrell Corporation?  Oh, crap.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Misstify
more info

[Milaxx]

Then you'll love this theory on the Back to the Future/Mr.Robot connection. 

[Misstify]

21 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

Then you'll love this theory on the Back to the Future/Mr.Robot connection. 

You're right, I do.  :)

I can't believe I forgot that Back to the Future 2 was Eliot's favorite movie.  That should have been a big clue.

The creepy photos with tape/paper over the faces in the Commodore 64 house are kind of reminiscent of the photos with disappearing bits in BttF.

[green]

2 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Then you'll love this theory on the Back to the Future/Mr.Robot connection. 

I wrote a long reply then realized it was more a Season 3 speculation post.  So I'm switching it to over there.  Let us all discuss this guy's theories in detail over there shall we?  Cause he raises soooo many things in such detail spanning the show from the beginning and not just this episode.

Good find, Milaax.

And whether you are into speculating on Season 3 or not that link to "The Batshit Crazy Back to the Future Theory" as the article is called is definitely worth a read.

Edited September 19, 2016 by green

[hincandenza]

6 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Then you'll love this theory on the Back to the Future/Mr.Robot connection. 

Does it mean I'm batshit crazy if I also love this theory- at least the first part, where WR may be involved with time travel, and the heavy-handed BttF2 references prior to this episode totally slipped past me as meaningful (I really need to rewatch season 1)?  Admittedly, it does go off the rails a wee bit by the end. :)

[artieLange]

While my wife and I were up late on a school night watching this, the weirdest thing happened. The episode suddenly stopped at the exact moment that Elliot was opening the taxi cab door, as is common with this show. My wife and I looked at each other and said "wow, they're getting more and more abrupt with the show endings" and went to sleep. Then today I jump on here, read TYRELL and realize we missed like the last 5 minutes

My wife also noticed that Tyrell's voice was noticeably different, she even quickly looked up the episode on IMDB to see if it was actually the same actor

Still loving this show, don't care much for any of the actor's sexual preferences/orientations/identities though (although I do have sort of a man crush on Mr malek). Whiterose is intriguing as f*** and played wonderfully. Gives me the chills

Edited September 20, 2016 by artieLange

[WatchrTina]

B D Wong earned the right to play White Rose when he won the Tony award for playing the title role in M Butterfly in 1988.  In that play he portrayed a biological man -- a star of Chinese opera -- who seduces a British diplomat and convinces him to commit espionage, while presenting as a woman.  The play -- based on a true story -- posits that the diplomat never realized that his Chinese lover was not a biological woman.  I've never understood that bit completely but the play does of good job of speculating how it might have happened.  Here's a bit from the Tony awards if you are interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=040OgeqmIY8

[Cardie]

I saw Wong and Lithgow perform that play live onstage. Absolutely mesmerizing.

[green]

3 hours ago, artieLange said:

While my wife and I were up late on a school night watching this, the weirdest thing happened. The episode suddenly stopped at the exact moment that Elliot was opening the taxi cab door, as is common with this show. My wife and I looked at each other and said "wow, they're getting more and more abrupt with the show endings" and went to sleep. Then today I jump on here, read TYRELL and realize we missed like the last 5 minutes

My wife also noticed that Tyrell's voice was noticeably different, she even quickly looked up the episode on IMDB to see if it was actually the same actor

Still loving this show, don't care much for any of the actor's sexual preferences/orientations/identities though (although I do have sort of a man crush on Mr malek). Whiterose is intriguing as f*** and played wonderfully. Gives me the chills

That's too funny.  Yeah Mr Robot rarely ends at the standard one hour.  If can run over 5 to 15 minutes or more at times.  But ending it with the door opening would be a pretty good guess given how they like to end episodes on this show.

I'm guessing this final episode coming up will run a little long and maybe there will be another post-show thing too.  Don't know though.  Any here that does?

[Kalliste]

I just went back and watched the part in S1E1 where Elliot meets Tyrell.. if I had the inclination that Tyrell wasn't real the conversation could have put a tick in the 'not real' box given Elliot thinks "an executive running linux.." and Tyrell cuts him off and says "I know what you're thinking, an executive running linux".

Anyway, the point of going back was to see if I noticed a huge difference in the way he sounds and I don't. I watched the end of last episode right after it and noticed nothing out of the ordinary about his voice or accent (or lack of accent? I'm not really sure what people are noticing). The only thing I can think of is that they're expecting him not to have an American accent because of how he speaks at home? He had one in both and he sounds the same (to me).

[Milaxx]

To me his voice sounds like that of a native foreign speaker who has lived/worked in the US for a while and now the accent is fairly light whereas Tyrell as previously played had a very prominent accent. 

[Rinaldo]

To my ears, Tyrell's accent was never prominent, always mild.

[Avaleigh]

On 9/15/2016 at 10:08 AM, Milaxx said:

Nothing is accidental on this show. If the accent is different, it's intentional. One thing I've learned from this show is a lot of time what the actors are saying is often not the complete truth. You need to look at surrounding and other cues as to what's happening. Tyrell's accent change likely means something, I just don't know what.

I watched this episode again in preparation for the finale and when I watched it this time around I started to wonder if it was possible that Angela was picked up by the FBI. I don't think that the Whiterose scene was a dream but there was something dreamlike about it. To me it seemed like Angela was taken away by authorities and was put into a holding cell where she was forced to wait for hours and started to lose it a little. Dom recently told her that she was on the verge of getting arrested and I'm guessing that it might have happened. Since Whiterose is so concerned with time it seems strange that Angela would be forced to wait for so long. Then I considered the fact that Dom has to go home to sleep and her boss tells her that she can interview whoever they have after she gets some rest. 

I think about the fish and Whiterose being responsible for its death. I got the impression that the fish is supposed to represent Cisco. The Dark Army was responsible for killing Cisco and it's when Angela is looking at the dead fish that she tells Whiterose what a horrible person she is. 

I think this supports the theory that Angela and Darlene are linked and that's why the Lolita book was in the room. Darlene was in the room with Angela. I'm guessing it's similar to Elliot imagining something else when he was in jail.  

Whiterose confirms in this episode that Angela likes to make her own reality. 

This isn't related to the theory but I find it interesting that the questions Dom is asking Alexa feel similar in nature to the questions the girl was asking Angela. 

The other takeaway I had from this episode is that Tyrell confirmed that stage 2 was his plan. The Dark Army says that stage 2 is Elliot's plan and are confused when Elliot says that he doesn't know what the plan is. I think this is one more suggestion that Elliot and Tyrell are one in the same. 

[hertolo]

I was fully expecting the fish to come back to life as proof of concept for White Roses "the betterment of humanity". But I guess I will find out soon as being this late to watching I can just go to the next episode...

I really can't understand all the complaints about the show being slow - that's the point. It's not about quantity and having turns every few episodes as other shows are used to do, this show tells one story and sticks to it. There will not be an escalation of evil - as this season quite clearly shows its "book two" character. The story has been set up and is reshuffling towards a middle win which will then clear the stage for the ultimate battle. No? Mayhaps I should have watched part two of this episode first :)

[mrspidey]

On 15.9.2016 at 7:14 AM, juliet73 said:

 

I vaguely remember the computer system the little girl was using. 

It was an old Commodore 64 from the 80's. 64KB Ram, no Hard drive whatsoever. Used mostly with 5 1/4 ' Floppy disks that had up to 128KB storage capacity. 

Yep, those were the days.

It was my first computer. I learned coding Basic on that thing.

The prompt and the commands that the girl was using where absolutely authentic. That floppy disk even had Maniac Mansion on it, one of my all-time favourite Adventure games.