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Fencing: Stabby Filler

SnideAsides

By SnideAsides
in 2016 Olympics

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Browncoat

Browncoat

(edited)

I fenced briefly for fun in college (foil only), so I enjoy it.  I really like watching sabre, and wish I'd gotten the chance to learn it.

 

ETA: Damn, Massialas.  So close. 

Edited by Browncoat
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Matt K

Matt K

Sad to see Muhammad (and the rest of our team) lose in the second round.  She had a really good comeback but with her opponent only needing one more touch, odds weren't in her favor.  Looking forward to the team competition, hopefully we do better there. 

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blackwing

blackwing

This might be an unpopular opinion, but if I never hear "First Muslim-American woman to compete in the Olympics wearing a hijab" ever again, it won't be long enough.  I mean, good for her and all, but I feel like the media has completely crammed this woman down our throats.  She seems like a perfectly nice woman, but the amount of attention she is getting for her hijab-ness is a bit out of proportion.  She's not even the top ranked U.S. woman on the sabre team.  That would be Mariel Zagunis, who has won gold at the Olympics not once but twice before, in 2004 and 2008.  I didn't even know she was in the Olympics again until I looked it up.  

I have seen and heard "first Muslim-American woman to compete in the Olympics wearing a hijab" on TV and on the internet countless numbers of times, but the number of times I have heard "two-time gold medalist Mariel Zagunis"???  Zippo.

Good for Muhammad for bringing some exposure to the fencing team.  But it's kind of like Michael Phelps.  There are actually other people on the team.  It kind of disappoints me to see the media go apeshit over Muhammad losing in the second round, yet no mention of Zagunis also losing in the second round.  And of course, they go on to say that Muhammad has a chance to medal in the team event.  Never mind that her chances of medalling also depend on the performance of Zagunis and the rest of the team.

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Ohwell

Ohwell

33 minutes ago, blackwing said:

This might be an unpopular opinion, but if I never hear "First Muslim-American woman to compete in the Olympics wearing a hijab" ever again, it won't be long enough.  I mean, good for her and all, but I feel like the media has completely crammed this woman down our throats.  She seems like a perfectly nice woman, but the amount of attention she is getting for her hijab-ness is a bit out of proportion.  

I just had to quote this part.  Thank you.

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ElDosEquis

ElDosEquis

27 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

I'd love to watch more of this sport, but I'm ashamed to admit that the facemasks freak me out.  They are the stuff of my nightmares!  :-)

You start to scream and the US flag mask comes off and it's a guy from the IRS?

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MyAimIsTrue

MyAimIsTrue

Last night I watched the gold medal match (joust?) between Daryl Homer and the Hungarian whose name I've unfortunately forgotten and every time the announcer said "parry" I thought of Daffy Duck and giggled to myself.  Great showing by Homer in winning silver!

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LadyArcadia

LadyArcadia

I love to watch but I'm completely clueless. What's the difference in events?  Foil? Eppy(sp?)

I saw a US guy get silver yesterday, but then a different guy got silver a few days ago. Why aren't they both competing in the same events?

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Matt K

Matt K

2 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

What I watched today was great, and suspenseful.  I was surprised how engaged I was. Maybe because it was close, maybe because the US team was involved, I don't know.  But I was glued to the screen.

That was a great match.  Sorry to see US lose but damn Miles Chamley-Watson was amazing, sad to see Massialas chock so bad though.

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ElDosEquis

ElDosEquis

(edited)
On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 4:03 PM, LadyArcadia said:

I love to watch but I'm completely clueless. What's the difference in events?  Foil? Eppy(sp?)

I saw a US guy get silver yesterday, but then a different guy got silver a few days ago. Why aren't they both competing in the same events?

There are three kinds of swords, The Epee, Foil and Saber.

I am not sure which is which, but in one you can only score points with the tip of the sword, with the other you can score by slashing your opponent. In one discipline you can only score points with touches to the torso.

the rules are pretty simple, you are awarded points with a touch - you are rewarded for being on the offense in case of a tie, and those are all the rules that I know about.  Maybe someone can fill in or correct me?

 

ETA, From the wiki..

The foil is the 'stabby' weapon,

In foil the valid target area includes the torso (including the lower part of the bib of the mask) and the groin. The head (except the lower part of the bib of the mask), arms, and legs are considered off target. Touches made off target do not count for points, but do stop play.

The Epee allows hits all over the body.

Edited by ElDosEquis
More info?
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Matt K

Matt K

6 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

Yes, Chamley-Watson was amazing.

Do you think the USA team was right to be annoyed with the referee?  I don't watch this sport enough to know.  I found it exciting, regardless, and will watch the bronze match.

No idea, this is only my second Olympics watching this.  That said, it sounded like the issues was all of the close calls were going Russia's way.  I would imagine in theory this should be more split but I have no clue

5 hours ago, ElDosEquis said:

There are three kinds of swords, The Epee, Foil and Saber.

I am not sure which is which, but in one you can only score points with the tip of the sword, with the other you can score by slashing your opponent. In one discipline you can only score points with touches to the torso.

the rules are pretty simple, you are awarded points with a touch - you are rewarded for being on the offense in case of a tie, and those are all the rules that I know about.  Maybe someone can fill in or correct me?

 

ETA, From the wiki..

The foil is the 'stabby' weapon,

In foil the valid target area includes the torso (including the lower part of the bib of the mask) and the groin. The head (except the lower part of the bib of the mask), arms, and legs are considered off target. Touches made off target do not count for points, but do stop play.

The Epee allows hits all over the body.

Thanks for that, I knew there were different guards for the Saber vs Epee but no had no idea about the stabby vs side hit.

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ElDosEquis

ElDosEquis

(edited)
18 minutes ago, Matt K said:

Thanks for that, I knew there were different guards for the Saber vs Epee but no had no idea about the stabby vs side hit.

There are other rules like 'the right of way' that I am not familiar with, but I do know that you when you 'tie' the point usually goes to the person who is being offensive. I do know that you must remain on the mat, otherwise you give up a point. I don't know anything about the Olympic Rules or how they run their tournament!

The sword body is different too - something about a triangle shaped blade.

It's an interesting sport and fun to watch - there is technique to it, not just two guys poking each other with long knives?

Edited by ElDosEquis
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candall

candall

18 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

Do you think the USA team was right to be annoyed with the referee?  I don't watch this sport enough to know.  I found it exciting, regardless, and will watch the bronze match.

I just watched the Team Event in Sabre and even though I couldn't understand one second of the action, it was still very exciting as Poland came from being down 11 points to one point away, with one point to go.   It was confusing to watch because there's something going on about you have to be advancing with your ________ arm? weapon? and not just your feet.  So you can be charging forward but you're still not considered "on the offensive" if something else isn't independently going forward at the same time.  And possibly the point doesn't count if you're not on the offensive?

Anyway, speaking to the referee, there were calls for a video replay about every other point and the announcer said that was acceptable--you can ask for a video ruling as often as want until ____________ you're overruled x number of times? He also said it doesn't matter if the ref reverses himself as long as he ultimately gets it right,  but then at a different time he noted it's no good if the competitors lose confidence in the ref. 

There was a tricky spot when the ref said the fencers weren't allowed to see the video replays until after the match, but the announcer said that hadn't been true for any of the matches up to this point.

To my totally untrained eye, it seemed over half the points came down to a referee call on a detail that was relatively difficult to determine--which must be incredibly frustrating.  No wonder it's important everyone trusts the ref.

 

The three women on the team each have a bit of an interesting underdog backstory, so I'm happy to stick with them for the semi-final against Russia, coming up soon!

 

P.S.  Who knew New Jersey was so gung-ho on fencing?

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ElDosEquis

ElDosEquis

16 minutes ago, candall said:

P.S.  Who knew New Jersey was so gung-ho on fencing?

It's a hot bed for fencing, You start a kid out with a Swiss Army Knife and as they get into more and more scrapes, they progress to machetes.

It's kinda silly to bring an epee to a street fight?

------------------

One of the things that I do not understand IS the insistence that a hijab is some kind of magic piece of clothing that helped this gal get on the team.

I am surprised that the Mexican team doesn't participate in serapes, The Germans in lederhosen and the Japanese in kimonos?

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ElDosEquis

ElDosEquis

The one 'wardrobe' malfunction that the thong bottoms have eliminated is the 'ass crack sweat spot'.

I remember watching a volleyball match where the camera got a close up of the player calling a play - the up person signals the play by holding their hand behind their backs and waving their fingers at the server - and the poor gal had huge spot on her bottoms.

That is NOT to be confused with the 'incontinent bowel spot' that has shown up on some marathoner's that go so hard they crap their pants.

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candall

candall

On ‎8‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 2:26 PM, blackwing said:

This might be an unpopular opinion, but if I never hear "First Muslim-American woman to compete in the Olympics wearing a hijab" ever again, it won't be long enough.  I mean, good for her and all, but I feel like the media has completely crammed this woman down our throats.  She seems like a perfectly nice woman, but the amount of attention she is getting for her hijab-ness is a bit out of proportion.

 I'm fine with it.  I just watched the doc about the 1936 Olympics, where several (very old) African-Americans lit up, remembering how they felt seeing Jesse Owens compete.

I imagine it's extremely tough being a devout Muslim in the US these days.  It doesn't hurt to make a positive fuss about an Olympian from a minority group who is most likely experiencing relentless negativity back home on a daily basis.

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blackwing

blackwing

I get that it's tough for her and she is a good positive role model for Muslim Americans.  What I take issue with is all of the brouhaha about her hijab.  As mentioned above by ElDosEquis, the media seems to be treating this hijab as some kind of all powerful talisman.   It's an article of clothing.  The media should focus on her faith.   Isn't it enough that she's Muslim American?  Not to the media.  They just HAVE to mention her hijab.

Congrats to the U.S. Women's sabre team who took bronze.  But once again, the early media stories said something like "First Muslim-American woman to compete in Olympics wearing a hijab wins bronze" and no mention of her teammates who helped make it possible.   Even now most articles say "Muhammad and team win bronze".   I guess it's the same Michael Phelps effect, the rest of the teammates, including two-time gold medalist Mariel Zagunis, are nobodies.

I wouldn't be surprised if Muhammad carries the flag in the Closing Ceremonies.  They put her in the front line steps away from Phelps in the Opening Ceremonies, so it's not out of possibility.  Ledecky is a better choice though.

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LadyArcadia

LadyArcadia

Thanks for the explanation on the different styles.  

I was initially happy for Muhammad and the attention she received.  Then, I saw the team match and..... not so impressed.  While obviously she's clearly more talented than I'll ever be, I feel most of the hype is about her hijab and not her ability.  With my untrained eye, she seemed like the weakest link on the team.

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