Cold Case - General Discussion

[kathyk2]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

I hardly ever watch the two-part finale because of the return of Christina, and hardly ever watch the Woodstock episode because it's stupid, but after I watched the two-parter with Susannah Thompson I figured I'd see the season (and show) out.

"Free Love" is still stupid, and I'm still glad we didn't get another season with Scotty having gotten away with murder and his inevitable role in the Lilly/Christina/baby story, but I had forgotten all about the finale also including Will solving a cold case (the teenager shot and dumped in the Badlands, whose mother sends him baked goods every year) that turned out to be that nasty commissioner's son as the (accidental) shooter.  That was a good story.  I love when Doherty says his son has turned his life around, is even a father now, and Will says good, then maybe he'll understand what he's put Althea Johnson through.

Going back to Susannah Thompson's FBI character, I like her, and I like her and Stillman together.  I could certainly do without them having had an affair (that destroyed his marriage, even though an earlier episode established Stillman's obsession with a case as what did it), but I love the discussion they have when she explains why she left, that having been with him would have been talked about as sleeping her way through PPD and every promotion she ever got would have been viewed with suspicion -- he says he never thought about that, and she says, "Men don't have to."  Amen, sister.

Also: I had no issues with Nick's high school girlfriend in her first episode, but she bugs the shit out of me in her second.  We'd have probably seen more of her in season eight, so another reason to be glad it didn't exist.

And now we get back to the main reason I'm glad it never happened, Christina.  I cannot stand her, as I've said many a time.  The nerve she has, doing that stupid hurt face and "So that's how it is?" when Scotty asks her what she wants (well, let's see, last time he saw you he was harboring your fugitive ass and then you split), and then asking Lilly to co-sign her rent.  The latter is doubly stupid, because why not ask her dad -- you know, the guy who abandoned her?  It's the almost literal least he could do.  And his wife shouldn't object, since she felt free to demand Lilly be part of the family, so that should extend to Christina, too.  Ugh; I liked the episodes with Lilly's mom, but not the ones with her dad.

I hated the Scotty storyline and would have loved seeing him in Jail. I'm not sure Chistina and Lily had the same dad. Their mom could have gotten pregnant while drunk. I liked the possibility of Lily joining the FBI. Cold Case wasn't the same once all the actors weren't working together.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I hated the Scotty storyline and would have loved seeing him in Jail. I'm not sure Chistina and Lily had the same dad. Their mom could have gotten pregnant while drunk. I liked the possibility of Lily joining the FBI. Cold Case wasn't the same once all the actors weren't working together.

I'm pretty sure they have the same dad. He tried to convince Lily to see Christina. 

[Percysowner]

13 hours ago, Bastet said:

And now we get back to the main reason I'm glad it never happened, Christina.  I cannot stand her, as I've said many a time.  The nerve she has, doing that stupid hurt face and "So that's how it is?" when Scotty asks her what she wants (well, let's see, last time he saw you he was harboring your fugitive ass and then you split), and then asking Lilly to co-sign her rent.  The latter is doubly stupid, because why not ask her dad -- you know, the guy who abandoned her?  It's the almost literal least he could do.  And his wife shouldn't object, since she felt free to demand Lilly be part of the family, so that should extend to Christina, too.  Ugh; I liked the episodes with Lilly's mom, but not the ones with her dad.

I too didn't like Christina, and I'm not sure we were supposed to. If there had been a season 8 she would have given the show a chance to show that Lily's father STILL was a bad dad, if he refused to help Christina. I always resented the whole notion that her dad should just be forgiven for abandoning the kids to their alcoholic mother who was unable to take care of them properly. Yes, he needed to save himself, but he could have at least tried to save them as well. Sadly, TV has a trope that bad dads must be forgiven by their daughters no matter how they behaved. See also Lily on How I Met Your Mother whose father was a gambling addict who had abandoned her at a race track who was never ever someone she could count on. When he came back all forgiving the show told us, via her husband, that she should forgive and forget. It ended with Lily letting her father provide childcare for their kids, because "he as changed". I would never trust him with my kids, no matter what the change, but as an official TV dad, that Lily, like our Lily had to not only forgive him, but absolve him because he suddenly decided that he wanted to be part of their lives.

[Bastet]

12 hours ago, Percysowner said:

I always resented the whole notion that her dad should just be forgiven for abandoning the kids to their alcoholic mother who was unable to take care of them properly.

This show had some issues with women, and that's one example -- Ellen is continually raked over the coals for her shitty parenting, but Paul (I had to look up his name, his story aggravates me so much I don't watch enough to commit it to memory) is never taken to task in a way that's proportional to the fact he opted not to parent his first two kids at all.  He abandoned them, left them with a woman he knew was incapable of properly raising them on her own, and never even sent any money to at least ease the financial burden (sending a bike one Christmas does not count). 

And I don't have a problem that Lilly is still seething with resentment towards her mother, just that she forgives her father so easily (and that I'm supposed to take it as charming for the second wife to dictate when and how Lilly will interact with the family he decided to stick around for).  As I've said before, Ellen did a lot wrong, but I will always cheer her on when Lilly snarks "Oh, I wondered who that drunk lady driving me to school was" in response to Ellen saying "I'm your mother" and Ellen comes right back with "Maybe you should have asked your father for a ride". 

Edited May 17 by Bastet

[kathyk2]

8 hours ago, Percysowner said:

I too didn't like Christina, and I'm not sure we were supposed to. If there had been a season 8 she would have given the show a chance to show that Lily's father STILL was a bad dad, if he refused to help Christina. I always resented the whole notion that her dad should just be forgiven for abandoning the kids to their alcoholic mother who was unable to take care of them properly. Yes, he needed to save himself, but he could have at least tried to save them as well. Sadly, TV has a trope that bad dads must be forgiven by their daughters no matter how they behaved. See also Lily on How I Met Your Mother whose father was a gambling addict who had abandoned her at a race track who was never ever someone she could count on. When he came back all forgiving the show told us, via her husband, that she should forgive and forget. It ended with Lily letting her father provide childcare for their kids, because "he as changed". I would never trust him with my kids, no matter what the change, but as an official TV dad, that Lily, like our Lily had to not only forgive him, but absolve him because he suddenly decided that he wanted to be part of their lives.

Sons are under pressure to forgive their fathers as well. Monk was expected to forgive his dad after walking out on him and his brother when they were children. Barney's father left him too.

[Percysowner]

3 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

Sons are under pressure to forgive their fathers as well. Monk was expected to forgive his dad after walking out on him and his brother when they were children. Barney's father left him too.

Point taken. There is a real trope of fathers must be forgiven as long as they weren't physically or sexually abusive and sometimes even physical abuse gets swept under the rug.

Admittedly I didn't watch Monk, so I was unaware and at least Barney didn't get browbeaten into having his father become his child's caretaker.

[andromeda331]

That's probably the trope I hate the most (well tied a character doing horrible things and/or treats people badly but no one ever calls them on it instead acting like their the best funniest etc. person ever) is being forced to forgive their father or mother for the crap they did in the past or present. Most of the time by their own friends and/or family. I'd cut the stepmother a little slack because I don't know what Paul told her but I doubt it's the truth. But Lilly should have turned to her and calmly explained that Paul abandoned her and her sister with an unstable alcoholic mother and they were often poor before announcing she would never forgive him and leave.

[Theli11]

On 5/17/2024 at 3:09 PM, kathyk2 said:

Sons are under pressure to forgive their fathers as well. Monk was expected to forgive his dad after walking out on him and his brother when they were children. Barney's father left him too.

I liked the way SVU handled it with Det. Amaro's father ("Padre Sandunguero" from Season 16) where he's being convinced by his mother and sister to just forget the abuse happened and help out his father. He refuses and is forced to testify against him to prove that his father has a history of abusing women, and it's implied that the ADA also had a father who abused him, and it causes him to lose the case. In the end he decides not to forgive him and I think it's really poignant and healthy. 

Amaro is played by Danny Pino. 

 

On 5/18/2024 at 4:24 AM, andromeda331 said:

That's probably the trope I hate the most (well tied a character doing horrible things and/or treats people badly but no one ever calls them on it instead acting like their the best funniest etc. person ever) is being forced to forgive their father or mother for the crap they did in the past or present. Most of the time by their own friends and/or family.

It's really a defiance of this trope. 

Edited May 21 by Theli11