Cold Case - General Discussion

[Black Knight]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

The Sleepover is such a good episode. Poor Rita she was such a cool kid and so nice. Trying to help Brandi and her brother even after the crap that Brandi and her friends put her through. Are we suppose to think that Brandi maniuplated Ariel to kill Rita? She spent a few minutes on it and then claimed to stop but then told Ariel they were done as friends. It really looked like it. Ariel was so stupid to be so desperate to be friends with such a horrible person. Realistic though. To continue though as adults? That's pathetic. I'm not sure why they had Rita's mom having an affair with Tiffany's father. It didn't go anywhere. Also as great as it was to tell her that college would be great. What about the next six years that Rita would have had to put up with? That's a long time to wait for things to get better.

No, I didn't get the impression Ariel killed Rita because of Brandi's urging. I don't think even Brandi herself really meant it. She was just kind of pushing boundaries like kids do, looking to see who would push back and at what point.

Six years is and isn't a long time, depending on perspective. Rita herself, as something of an old soul, seemed to have the perspective to be able to take comfort in what her mom said. And she tried to convey that to Ariel, but Ariel couldn't see it then. I think the most devastating moment of the episode for me is when adult Ariel sobs during her confession, "I didn't know you live through it." That's something that usually has to be learned through age, though. Most kids won't know it, or find it very comforting if they do get told it. But it always makes me very sad when I read about a child who's taken their own life, because it's nearly always over something that could be lived through no matter how much it sucks at the moment. If Ariel had chosen to fling herself over the cliff in despair instead of pushing Rita over, I'd feel the same.

As for Brandi's parents, I'm not sure if there's a statute of limitations on child abuse, but Brandi and/or her brother would have to be willing to testify. I don't get the impression Brandi would be willing to do that and her brother doesn't seem capable of it at the moment.

[WendyCR72]

On 6/18/2022 at 5:51 AM, andromeda331 said:

I loved her as Serena. I'm surprise she hasn't become a bigger star.

Well, she isn't acting these days. She is in the US Army, actually! I recall her TV dad, Kin Shriner (Scott, GH) posting how proud of her he was after Carly posted a picture of herself in uniform on social media.

[andromeda331]

17 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, she isn't acting these days. She is in the US Army, actually! I recall her TV dad, Kin Shriner (Scott, GH) posting how proud of her she was after Carly posted a picture of herself in uniform on social media.

Oh, she is? That's so cool!

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, Black Knight said:

No, I didn't get the impression Ariel killed Rita because of Brandi's urging. I don't think even Brandi herself really meant it. She was just kind of pushing boundaries like kids do, looking to see who would push back and at what point.

Yeah, Brandi was a creep (thanks to her parents), but it plays like the "let's kill her" thing wasn't serious, just the latest of her mean antics asserting her only means of control, as queen bee of the group; proving that if she says "I hate her, and she needs to die" her minions will agree.  So she never intended to kill her, and she certainly didn't think Ariel was going to do so once she kicked them out.  Ariel killed Rita because she thought her life was over, that she'd be a miserable outcast for the next six years, and she was upset that Rita was telling her that was okay, not because Brandi had manipulated her into doing it for her. 

As I've said before, that's one of the show's saddest episodes, because everything about it is heartbreaking:

- What Brandi and Neil go through at the hands of their parents, and how they're unable to protect each other from it (which makes adult Brandi wrapping her arms around adult Neil in the hospital and signaling Scotty not to let the parents in his room quite touching)
- Tiffany spending the rest of her life self-medicating with alcohol because she can't get Rita's face when Tiffany left her there out of her mind
- Rita looking past Brandi's tormenting her to assure the Beaudry kids they're not bad, what their parents do to them isn't right, and offering to take them to her mom right now to get help, and Neil wanting to go, but Brandi throwing up her walls again
- Rita taking to heart what her mom told her about everyone who's been anyone in the history of time having been a loser in junior high, but come college her interests and quirks will be appreciated as cool, and trying to reassure Ariel of that, suggesting they ride it out as friends, only to be killed
- Adult Ariel hearing Lilly yell at her that Rita was just a little kid and sobbing that she was just a little kid, too, and she didn't know you live through it

Edited June 19, 2022 by Bastet

[kathyk24]

I hated the Lilly's dad storyline. You knew your former wife was an alcoholic and you didn't try to get custody of your daughters? You lived in a nice home while your daughters lived in poverty that's awful he's no hero.

[MarylandGirl]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Yeah, Brandi was a creep (thanks to her parents), but it plays like the "let's kill her" thing wasn't serious, just the latest of her mean antics asserting her only means of control, as queen bee of the group; proving that if she says "I hate her, and she needs to die" her minions will agree.  So she never intended to kill her, and she certainly didn't think Ariel was going to do so once she kicked them out.  Ariel killed Rita because she thought her life was over, that she'd be a miserable outcast for the next six years, and she was upset that Rita was telling her that was okay, not because Brandi had manipulated her into doing it for her. 

As I've said before, that's one of the show's saddest episodes, because everything about it is heartbreaking:

- What Brandi and Neil go through at the hands of their parents, and how they're unable to protect each other from it (which makes adult Brandi wrapping her arms around adult Neil in the hospital and signaling Scotty not to let the parents in his room quite touching)
- Tiffany spending the rest of her life self-medicating with alcohol because she can't get Rita's face when Tiffany left her there out of her mind
- Rita looking past Brandi's tormenting her did to her to assure the Beaudry kids they're not bad, what their parents do to them isn't right, and offering to take them to her mom right now to get help, and Neil wanting to go, but Brandi throwing up her walls again
- Rita taking to heart what her mom told her about everyone who's been anyone in the history of time having been a loser in junior high, but come college her interests and quirks will be appreciated as cool, and trying to reassure Ariel of that, suggesting they ride it out as friends, only to be killed
- Adult Ariel hearing Lilly yell at her that Rita was just a little kid and sobbing that she was just a little kid, too, and she didn't know you live through it

Agreed that this was a really sad episode on many levels. Also well-acted.

[Black Knight]

On 6/18/2022 at 4:18 PM, MarylandGirl said:

Also well-acted.

That makes something occur to me that I hadn't really thought of before: Because the show was about cold cases, that often went back decades, it had a lot more child characters than the average cop show since it was totally plausible for them to still be alive in the present (murder victims excepted, of course). And casting children is difficult, but they always did very well with that. As was pointed out in earlier discussion, some of the kids they cast have gone on to notable careers - Jennifer Lawrence, Yara Shahidi...

[Bastet]

On 6/18/2022 at 3:08 PM, kathyk24 said:

I hated the Lilly's dad storyline.

I generally fast forward through him, so it just may be that I haven't seen it in so long, but does he ever even ask about Christina?  I know he asks about their mom (and Lilly tells him she died), so he must have asked about his other kid, but I have no memory of it!  (I mean, I'd like to pretend Christina doesn't exist, too, but I'm not her father.)

Lilly's personal storylines almost universally suck (same with Scotty's), but I do like the powerful and not generally seen on TV end to her mom's story, where Lilly accepts it when Ellen finally tells her she can't beat it (alcoholism) - drinking is going to kill her in short order, but she can't quit, and she just wants to live out what's left of her life the only way she knows how - and asks her to come spend that remaining time with Lilly.

[WendyCR72]

Okay, this show is obviously very different in tone than Cold Case, but Kathryn Morris also appeared in an episode of Silk Stalkings, "Compulsion", back in 1996 (so with Chris Potter and Janet Gunn's characters, Tom and Cassy, not the original characters of Chris and Rita), which YouTube now has up to watch for free.

So if you want to see her in an earlier role, here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpunX5z5aWY&ab_channel=YouTubeMovies

Enjoy.

(And not trying to be funny as many jokes had been made about Lily's hair on Cold Case, but I thought the shorter hair in the Silk Stalkings episode looked good on Ms. Morris.)

[Black Knight]

So weird to see her being the one questioned!

And for anyone who just wants to get a quick look without watching the episode, you can find her at the 10:30 mark. Probably elsewhere too, but I just made a random click and hit a scene of hers on the first try.

[Bort]

Ever see Kathryn Morris on Xena? She had short hair in that too. And played a crazy religious zealot. 
 

[Black Knight]

One of the more annoying storylines Xena ever did, although it wasn't Kathryn Morris's fault. Gabrielle could be insufferable sometimes, and that was one of those sometimes and KM's character encouraged it.

[Bort]

Oh yeah, I hated Gabrielle’s pacifist phase, it was stupid. You can’t hang out with Xena and be a pacifist. You need to be willing to kick the shit out of somebody because they’re coming for you.

On the subject of Lily’s hair, it actually never bothered me. But I was endlessly amused at the criticism about it. And I know it’s on the first page of this topic but the MadTV parody of it is hysterical. And this link is a better quality video so I will leave it here:

[andromeda331]

Discretion is a good episode and sadly still relevent. A cop pinning a murder on a Latino kid, ignoring there was a witness and killing the lawyer who went to talk to the witness. That was his "friend". I love how he tries to appeal to Scotty due to their Latino background. Even though he killed his friend was also Latino. I'm glad Greg's wife got to learn her husband wasn't gay or cheating on her. Poor
Antonio that beatening was terrible and threatening to beat his mom. Poor kid. He was played the younger Cesar on Gilmore Girls. Also, great song Kryptonite. 

Blank Generation- It's nice that Matthew figured out the cult wasn't a good thing. Too bad he went back to save his girlfriend who was a psycho. 

Yo Adrian-It was an okay episode. Everyone was betting and paying each other off for a fix. Sonny was an idiot for not stopping the fight sooner. Jerry for thinking he had to prove himself to all those crappy people. 

Time to Crime- The brother accidently kills his sister when trying to kill the guy his mother had an affair with. Also the poor horse. Idiots with guns firing off without paying attention to where they are firing. So stupid.

Revolution- Great song with Do you believe in magic? Time of the Season annd California Dreamin'. Ellie should have stayed away from her brother. I get why she didn't. He was too messed up. I fell bad for her boyfriend who didn't even know she was dead.

Wishing-Another heart breaking episode with Colin's poor mom and friend deciding to kill Colin to save him from ending up in jail or locked up in an asylum. It really sucked. He was such a good kid. He didn't deserve any of that. Leah was a bitch for lying that Colin forced himself on her. 

Revenge- Wow, what good but infurating episode. What asshole! Kidnap his nephew for money and when that didn't work sold him a child rapist. Then when he has a minute of conscience and goes to get Kyle. Leaves him there to take more money from the child rapist. I hope he has a horrible rest of his life. Same with the ex-wife. She knew her husband was abusing their child and did nothing. Oh, wait, she decided to work more so Ruby had even more time to abuse their kid. I loved Kyle's father gunning down Ruby. Good. He deserved it. His son killed Kyle over jealous. That was one messed up kid. Not surprising  since his father had abused him and his mother checked out. Good songs 10,000 Maniac, the Proclaimers, Sarah McLachlan and Counting Crows. Also Somewhere Over the Rainbow.

Schadenfreude- It's amazing Diane wasn't the killer given how much misery she caused her friends. I get she was upset about her husband's death but that was horrible. Lindsay had crappy old friend, new friend and husband. Song by David Bowie and Queen.

Ravaged- Well, that's a terrible bar. Bartender sells drugs and you could get raped. Lilly's really good at play parts. When she played the so called AA guy. Sloan finally hit rock bottom. I wonder if she would have changed if she had the chance. Music Hootie & the Blowfish, Sophie B. Hawkins, Gin Blossoms and Bruce Springsteen.

Strange Fruit-Good, sad and infuriting. Poor Zeke. That was horrifying. And sadly still timely. Glad the assholes finally were brought to justice for it. But not nearly enough for what they did. Will was the one who found the body when he was a kid. Poor Mathilde raped and then treated like crap by the police. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by andromeda331

[Bastet]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Time to Crime- The brother accidently kills his sister when trying to kill the guy his mother had an affair with.

Him sitting on the phone book to be able to see over the steering wheel is one of my favorite images.  I also like how the parents try to protect him when the cops show up to arrest him, and how the cops wish they'd never figured it out.  That episode is also packed with fantastically scathing commentary on America's gun culture. 

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, Bastet said:

Him sitting on the phone book to be able to see over the steering wheel is one of my favorite images.  I also like how the parents try to protect him when the cops show up to arrest him, and how the cops wish they'd never figured it out.   

Those were really great scenes. 

Quote

That episode is also packed with fantastically scathing commentary on America's gun culture.

It really was. You have two idiots firing without paying any attention to where the bullets are going and a boy who shooting the guy his mother was having an affairbut ends up killing his sister. It's really not anymore clear then that. 

[Bastet]

21 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It really was. You have two idiots firing without paying any attention to where the bullets are going and a boy who shooting the guy his mother was having an affairbut ends up killing his sister. It's really not anymore clear then that. 

More so that they showed it's no better for an adult to waltz into a gun show and legally buy that thing from "Uncle Sam" than it is for a teen to shove $100 worth of milk money into the hands of a banger selling out of his trunk.

Every one of the scenes about the gun hammers home the utter lunacy of an automatic weapon being available, from the introductory scene when the father who was dumb enough to have the gun in the first place gets pissed at his son for stealing it - because, of course, he could get to it - and turning it into the police in exchange for sneakers per their program and then freaks out, telling the kid to give those shoes back when, gee, it turns out that gun was used to kill someone, to the closing montage when Lilly stands in the middle of an evidence locker room that is entirely, and accurately, devoted solely to various guns, and imagines little Kayla standing there taking it all in as "Man in the Mirror" plays (if only that had been sung by someone other than Michael Jackson, because it's perfect).

One of my favorite parts of that montage is when Eric, from whom Truly took the gun when he was a fucked-up teen (and got fired as the family's maid for stealing by the even more fucked-up parents who knew she was telling the truth), is shown taking Scotty's "tell her yourself" admonition to heart and shows up at Truly's apartment with flowers to finally apologize.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Bastet

[WendyCR72]

For those interested, Hulu has the original Canadian series that Cold Case is based upon, Cold Squad, available to stream. Once saw a few episodes on Retro TV ages ago...

(On a side note, I recall there was some legal snafu between this series and Cold Squad, too.)

[kathyk24]

22 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Those were really great scenes. 

It really was. You have two idiots firing without paying any attention to where the bullets are going and a boy who shooting the guy his mother was having an affairbut ends up killing his sister. It's really not anymore clear then that. 

I always wondered how the courts dealt with really young or old killers. Defense lawyers would challenge witness testimony and juries would be sympathetic to them.

[Bastet]

37 minutes ago, kathyk24 said:

I always wondered how the courts dealt with really young or old killers. Defense lawyers would challenge witness testimony and juries would be sympathetic to them.

An astounding number of this show's cases would fall apart once the accused secured legal counsel, nevermind fail in court, which is one of the reasons I love the closing musical montages -- they distract me from that by so powerfully illustrating the futility of violence by showing how many lives - the victim, the victim's loved ones, the witnesses, the killer, the killer's loved ones - are forever altered by one terrible choice.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

An astounding number of this show's cases would fall apart once the accused secured legal counsel, nevermind fail in court, which is one of the reasons I love the closing musical montages -- they distract me from that by so powerfully illustrating the futility of violence by showing how many lives - the victim, the victim's loved ones, the witnesses, the killer, the killer's loved ones - are forever altered by one terrible choice.

Me too. It was a great way to end the episodes. 

[Door County Cherry]

I rewatched (or maybe watched) the whole series a few years ago.

Now that it's on late night, I have been rewatching episodes here and there.  Why do I find it so much more depressing this time?  I can't watch it to fall asleep the way I can with Law and Order.

[Black Knight]

On 7/15/2022 at 2:06 PM, Door County Cherry said:

Why do I find it so much more depressing this time?  I can't watch it to fall asleep the way I can with Law and Order.

I can't speak to why "this time," but in general terms I can see why it's a much harder show to watch than L&O. For one thing, with L&O we generally saw very little of the victims alive - at most they'd show up in the opening sequence, and often not even then. And then Cold Case victims tended to be highly sympathetic and/or likable. L&O cases had a much higher rate of victims being awful people. There's also a higher rate on CC of the murderers being people who aren't really terrible in general, but lose it in a moment of anger against a loved one and then spend years afterwards suffering and feeling guilty - necessary because the show heavily depended on killers confessing in order to unburden themselves of their secret.

CC episodes mostly end with you feeling sorry for a likable victim you saw a lot of through flashbacks and upset for other people, from the loved ones even down to the killer, who were negatively impacted by the murder. L&O didn't really get into the victim impact side of things much after an arrest - it was about the legal stuff, then, with killers who didn't feel guilty and were trying their hardest to get away with it. There's a much more detached feeling, especially since, again, generally the viewer saw little to nothing of the victim.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I can't speak to why "this time," but in general terms I can see why it's a much harder show to watch than L&O. For one thing, with L&O we generally saw very little of the victims alive - at most they'd show up in the opening sequence, and often not even then. And then Cold Case victims tended to be highly sympathetic and/or likable. L&O cases had a much higher rate of victims being awful people. There's also a higher rate on CC of the murderers being people who aren't really terrible in general, but lose it in a moment of anger against a loved one and then spend years afterwards suffering and feeling guilty - necessary because the show heavily depended on killers confessing in order to unburden themselves of their secret.

CC episodes mostly end with you feeling sorry for a likable victim you saw a lot of through flashbacks and upset for other people, from the loved ones even down to the killer, who were negatively impacted by the murder. L&O didn't really get into the victim impact side of things much after an arrest - it was about the legal stuff, then, with killers who didn't feel guilty and were trying their hardest to get away with it. There's a much more detached feeling, especially since, again, generally the viewer saw little to nothing of the victim.

I agree with all of this but also want to add we also see the fallout from the crime that happened years ago effected everyone involved. Some are still messed up, some had their lives ruined, other victims who still hadn't gotten justice or even just the parent/parents, spouse, siblings etc. still messed up or trying to get justice for their murdered love one or still lost or still trying to move on or friendly with the person they don't know who murdered their love one. Like the guy robbed and murdered by his cousin and in present day his sister is buying into the cousin's bullshit and giving him money. Or the guy who was knocked while his girlfriend was raped and murder wondering years later if that was the love of his life. Or the poor mother who blames herself for her son's murder because she was stressed out and messed up at the time having three kids and thinks God took her son away because of it. You hear all the time on the news, First 48 and other crime shows how a murder effects the victim, the victim's family, the murder, the murder's family and others in their circle. But this is one of the few shows that show you that. 

[andromeda331]

Kensington was an okay episode. It wasn't surprising that one of his friends killed him. Of course it's the one that screwed them over and kept messing up.  All the songs were from John Mellencamp. 

Creatures of the Night-I've never been into Rocky Horror Picture Show. The murderer was a horrible person but he did tell people about his voices. Too bad he told is LDS wack job aunt. That was helpful. She worries it might be her fault. Ah, yes it is. Instead of getting your nephew help you told him it was God talking to him and to listen to it. Maybe if she had he a lot of people would still be alive. Too bad she wasn't one of his victims. I do like the secret of Mike spending time with the wife was him trying
to help her overcome fear of leaving the house.

TNT skipped over Best Friends episode for the Woods which was an excellent season two finale. Serial killer John Billingsley returns when they find the house that he grew up in and all those heads.
I'm amazed this show managed to make me feel sorry for a serial killer. Growing up by a crazy mother who pretended to be blind and betraying him to a rapist so she wouldn't be raped? Damn, that's horrible. He was still horrible for going on to murder all those women. I love how Lilly figured it out. It was such a great scene with  her breaking him down especially after he did the same thing to the squad in two episodes. Songs by Eagles, the Who, America, John Dnever, the Doors and Jethro Tull. 

I forgot how each of the main characters had something horrible happen to them. Lilly was attacked by mugger, Scotty's girlfriend had mental problems and committed suicide. Will's wife was killed in a car accident and Stillman's daughter was raped. I think Vera was the only one who didn't.

Family was a great episode. If only Jimmy had been more clear to Quinn about he meant things would have been so different for her and their daughter. I did feel bad for the murderer finding out that Jimmy wanted to keep the baby. That would be hard to be so close to finally having a child only for it to be taken away. Jimmy's choice of course and the teacher shouldn't have responded by running him over with his car. Sadly, the math teacher appears to be the only good employee the school had between Coach Rapist and Psycho Antiabortion nurse. I love Vera calling her on her bullshit when she claimed she only told Jimmy the truth. Sadly that's still relievent today and only going to be more
relevent. Quinn finding out that Jimmy loved her and wanted to keep their baby was nice. Hope things work out for poor Claire. Thrown away in a dumspter, raised in foster care, and stalked and kidnapped by a psycho Coach. I do like In Your Eyes playing at the end.

I love and hate the Promise. I love Laurie's backbone with the frat boys and Dirk. I love her idea to burn dow their fratnerity house. I hate that she ended up dying in the fire. I wish we got to see 
all of those fraternity brothers arrested. At least her murderer, and the rapist almuni was arrested. I was worried the latter wouldn't be they took so long to get there. I love the women take pictures of
of Manny. What a horrible piece of crap he was. Another episode that's sadly still relevent. That's really depressing. 3 Doors Down and Sarah  McLachlan were a nice touch. 

Bad Night-Poor Vicky fidig out her husband was the one who paralyzed her and killed her friend because he figured it out. The fallout from the accident was pretty realistic. Everyone but Vicky blamed Angus since he was the one who was driving. Crappy of Craig to also blame Angus when he did nothing to help Vicky in the accident. The accident brought up memories for Will. It was interesting at the end having him imagine that he had been there so she didn't die. Tom Petty, Fleetwood Mac, Styx and Areosmith.
 

Sarah Brown joined the cast in season 3. At the time it was weird for me since she had just being playing Carly on General Hospital who I hated. It's only three episodes in but I liked her in the Promise. 

[Bastet]

11 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

TNT skipped over Best Friends episode for the Woods which was an excellent season two finale.

That would have had me all kinds of aggravated if I was watching; I love Tessa Thompson, Piper Laurie, Marla Gibbs, the music, and the storyline in "Best Friends" so much I overlook the timing issues, but I cannot stand the way the actor plays that serial killer who works in the evidence room so much I skip both of his episodes (to be fair, I think the writing isn't very good to begin with, as is usually true with serial killer arcs, but I could maybe have handled it with a different actor).

[Black Knight]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

I overlook the timing issues

Do you mean how once Rose admitted she was romantically involved with Billie, there was really no reason for her to withhold the rest of the story other than because the episode still had time to fill, or something else?

I love it too. And I've always wondered if the show paid Ann-Marie MacDonald something for that episode. It's not a straight rip-off of the lesbian romance in her wonderful 1996 novel Fall On Your Knees, but there are some resonant similarities and the vibe feels the same.

[ljenkins782]

On 7/18/2022 at 1:54 PM, Bastet said:

That would have had me all kinds of aggravated if I was watching; I love Tessa Thompson, Piper Laurie, Marla Gibbs, the music, and the storyline in "Best Friends" so much I overlook the timing issues, but I cannot stand the way the actor plays that serial killer who works in the evidence room so much I skip both of his episodes (to be fair, I think the writing isn't very good to begin with, as is usually true with serial killer arcs, but I could maybe have handled it with a different actor).

Yeah, that actor was a problem for me too. His scenery-chewing performance bugs me and he has a weird mouth that I hard to overlook (not his fault, but I can't help it). And that whole episode is extra upsetting with the stories of how those women died.

Best friends is the episode that introduced me to the series, so I'll always have a soft spot for it. 

Quote

Sarah Brown joined the cast in season 3. At the time it was weird for me since she had just being playing Carly on General Hospital who I hated. It's only three episodes in but I liked her in the Promise. 

I rarely rewatch The Promise because it's just upsetting and Laurie's dad makes me so sad, so I'm not sure how Sarah Brown was in that one, but I loathed her performance in this show.

She tried so hard to be gruff and her accent didn't work for me at all. I was thrilled that her run on the show was so short, especially since they were obviously heading toward a showmance with Scotty and I wouldn't' have been able to stomach that. Scotty's taste in women was godawful all around.

[andromeda331]

On 7/21/2022 at 2:13 PM, ljenkins782 said:

I rarely rewatch The Promise because it's just upsetting and Laurie's dad makes me so sad, so I'm not sure how Sarah Brown was in that one, but I loathed her performance in this show.

She tried so hard to be gruff and her accent didn't work for me at all. I was thrilled that her run on the show was so short, especially since they were obviously heading toward a showmance with Scotty and I wouldn't' have been able to stomach that. Scotty's taste in women was godawful all around.

That is a hard episode. I'll probably skip to the end next time. I do love seeing all the arrogent frat boys arrested while the women take pictures of it. Laurie was such a strong character.

I know when this season aired I hated Sarah Brown's character mosttly I hated Carly on General Hospital. This time around I really wonder why they brought her on. I don't think she was bad she's mostly just here. She didn't have any chemistry with Scotty or really any of the detectives. She really didn't stand out in any episodes except this one. Sympathetic when interviewing the girls and disgusted with the frat boys. But that was really it.  Then she's gone.

TNT skipped Colors. I don't know why. The next episode was Committed. It was a good episode. I liked the women at the asylum. Poor Betty for thing the only way to go home was that horrible lobotomy. The treatment for mental illness was so horrible. For Betty they were years away from medications that would actually help her. I should have realized the other women's story came from Rosemary Kennedy. The horrible procedure forced on her against her will. She was the one most well known for it. At least fictional Rosemary had a happy life as "Betty". If only her husband had at least given her some hope to see their son again. Only You is an odd song to play. For me it always makes me think of Hot Shots when Topper is singing it to Ramada while they are dressed as 
Superman and Lois, Rhett and Scarlett, and Rocky and his girl.

I forgot how horribly depressing Saving Patrick Bubley episode was. I so wish Maeve's drug addiction began over losing her sons. I hope Miguel has a violent death in prison. I didn't like this being the episode Lilly's numb to people. It doesn't feel like something like would ever be. She's always so great with the  families and friends of the grieving.

Start-Up- Wow, Scott sold out his best friend and killed her aces. I hated Alora. Great she finally told the truth but what a moron. She was so high and mighty about her opinion about other women. It was great that to find how she was full of shit. Her great Coleman completely set her up and she never saw it coming.

Semi-Charmed Life and You Get What You Give by New Radicals. This show really introduced me to so many songs at the time. I blew so much money CDs and I-Tunes.

Edited July 25, 2022 by andromeda331

[Bastet]

Back when TNT aired this in syndication late at night, it was followed by Without a Trace, which I would sometimes fall asleep to because I'd really enjoyed Marianne Jean-Baptiste in Secrets and Lies, but it was a typical terrible cop show, glorifying misconduct, and I didn't like some of the characters/relationships, so I'd frequently wind up turning it off in disgust.

I recently made myself watch the entire first season (on the Roku channel) to see if I still disliked it and, yes, I do, so I won't be going on, but it kept me entertained seeing that every single one of those episodes - which aired the season before the same production companies premiered Cold Case - guest starred actors who went on to appear in Cold Case, including the actors playing Stillman, Jeffries, Kite, and Sutton (she annoyed me just as much there as she did during her short tenure on this series).

There isn't a ton of overlap in the casting departments, but literally every episode features at least one (and not infrequently two or more) actor who later guest starred on this show, so it plays like a try-out.  (I know if I looked up another series running around the same time I would also find a lot of overlap, as that's who tended to be making the guest starring rounds at the time, it's just particularly noticeable.)

[MarylandGirl]

21 hours ago, Bastet said:

Back when TNT aired this in syndication late at night, it was followed by Without a Trace, which I would sometimes fall asleep to because I'd really enjoyed Marianne Jean-Baptiste in Secrets and Lies, but it was a typical terrible cop show, glorifying misconduct, and I didn't like some of the characters/relationships, so I'd frequently wind up turning it off in disgust.

I recently made myself watch the entire first season (on the Roku channel) to see if I still disliked it and, yes, I do, so I won't be going on, but it kept me entertained seeing that every single one of those episodes - which aired the season before the same production companies premiered Cold Case - guest starred actors who went on to appear in Cold Case, including the actors playing Stillman, Jeffries, Kite, and Sutton (she annoyed me just as much there as she did during her short tenure on this series).

There isn't a ton of overlap in the casting departments, but literally every episode features at least one (and not infrequently two or more) actor who later guest starred on this show, so it plays like a try-out.  (I know if I looked up another series running around the same time I would also find a lot of overlap, as that's who tended to be making the guest starring rounds at the time, it's just particularly noticeable.)

OK, that's interesting to hear you say that, because I LOVE Without a Trace (less so the last couple seasons). I found it particularly interesting because you didn't know whether the victim would end up alive or dead. And, much like Cold Case, you learn various things about their lives. If you're at all interested in seeing more of it, I'd recommend the following episodes:
S2: 8, "Trip Box"
2:15: "Wannabe"
2:19: "Doppelanger"
2:23: "Lost and Found"
3:1: "Into the Dark"
3:6 and 3:7: "Nickel and Dimed, parts 1 and 2"
3.8: "Doppleganger: Part 2"
3:18: "Transitions"
3:23: "End Game"

I'll stop now!

Edited August 3, 2022 by MarylandGirl
typo

[andromeda331]

Best Friends-I love Billie's clothes. I loved Rose's getting the gun and pointing it at her brother. He's surprise when she did. 

Colors-A great episode so many people getting all wrapped up in something that's a game. I liked Clyde. Poor guy murdered by his friend. I liked the inclusion of Esther a black woman passing as white. 

Honor is just such a rough episode. I feel so bad for everyone in it. I know so many people who went to Vietnam and those that came back messed up. They did a great job showing that. I feel for Carl the abuse POW endured was so horrible. To go through that day after day. I don't blame him for breaking. I don't blame the others for hating him though. It would be so hard to see him at home with his family while their love ones were still there going through that or still fighting. I loved Stillman going off on Ken who pretended to be POW. He deserved a lot worse for doing that. Such a hard and sad episode.

Perfect Day is another good episode. Poor Cindy so close to getting away from her abusive husband with her girls. I do love that her husband was murdered later. Too bad it wasn't sooner. Art you should have just killed him when you had the chance. I do hope Cindy's able to have some relationship with her daughter. 

Franks Best-I'll skip this one in the future. I hate people hurting animals. Tommy was such a piece of shit. His father was so blinded to what horrible person he was. It was good way to reveal by having his friend Stump come off terrible that everyone thought he was the scary one. 

I didn't really like 8 years. Good songs all from Springsteen

Detention-The Breakfast Club deux I do like learning that the kids weren't planning to kill themselves but Dawn's stepfather. I liked Trevor started come out of his depression and realize he wanted to live. I had issues in my teens so I could relate to that.  

Debute-I always thought it was revealed that Lilian was related to Mathew Ridgely. That they were siblings. Lillian got that ring the same time as Mathew's sister. I really liked Emma. She was a really great person and I loved her interest in the space program. It's one of my favorite subjects. I liked her calling out Travis. Why was it so important to be part of that group? 

Dog Days Afternoon- I liked Roween. Julius was a horrible person and so was Darla. I do like Roween pointing out to Darla that he was doing the same thing to her. Oh, no that couldn't be it. Oh, what he dumped you? Gee, who would have seen that coming. I liked Roween's mom and sister.

Sanctuary-Poor Ana what a horrible situation to be in and no way out. Poor Scotty his boss really screwed her over. He easily could have gotten Ana out of there. Ramiro would have just assumed she left town.

Edited August 12, 2022 by andromeda331

[MarylandGirl]

i agree with most of your assessments here. Perfect Day is one that, while an excellent episode, is one I can't bring myself to watch again (probably in part because I'm a parent). Though Honor is a tough one, too, and I have no connections to the military or Vietnam.

I had to look up 8 Days because I had no memory of it at all--clearly it made an impression on me! Frank's Best is one I don't rewatch because, like you, I didn't really like it.

I do recall liking Dog Day Afternoons and wouldn't mind seeing that one again.

ETA: Curious as to what you'll have to say about One Night.

Edited August 12, 2022 by MarylandGirl
Adding comment

[GiandujaPie]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:02 AM, andromeda331 said:

Honor is just such a rough episode. I feel so bad for everyone in it. I know so many people who went to Vietnam and those that came back messed up. They did a great job showing that. I feel for Carl the abuse POW endured was so horrible. To go through that day after day. I don't blame him for breaking. I don't blame the others for hating him though. It would be so hard to see him at home with his family while their love ones were still there going through that or still fighting. I loved Stillman going off on Ken who pretended to be POW. He deserved a lot worse for doing that. Such a hard and sad episode.

Just watched this one last night and it's definitely one of the saddest episodes. I agree that I felt bad for everyone involved. You could see all of the different POVs (except for Ken) even the kid who shot Carl. Still always makes me tear up at the end. 

And what kind of terrible person is Ken? Yes, Carl "gave" him the box with all of the bracelets but who actually takes it home and then hides it in the basement? Why didn't he just leave them at the reception or return them to the family after Carl was found dead? What a POS he really was. 

[andromeda331]

On 8/15/2022 at 9:58 AM, GiandujaPie said:

Just watched this one last night and it's definitely one of the saddest episodes. I agree that I felt bad for everyone involved. You could see all of the different POVs (except for Ken) even the kid who shot Carl. Still always makes me tear up at the end. 

And what kind of terrible person is Ken? Yes, Carl "gave" him the box with all of the bracelets but who actually takes it home and then hides it in the basement? Why didn't he just leave them at the reception or return them to the family after Carl was found dead? What a POS he really was. 

Yes, he was. He pretended to be a POW, had an affair with his wife, pretended to be his son's father and kept the bracelets. Too bad he was murdered by the end of the episode. 

[GiandujaPie]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yes, he was. He pretended to be a POW, had an affair with his wife, pretended to be his son's father and kept the bracelets. Too bad he was murdered by the end of the episode. 

Did Ken get murdered by the end of the episode? I didn't see that. 

[ljenkins782]

On 8/12/2022 at 4:02 AM, andromeda331 said:

Perfect Day is another good episode. Poor Cindy so close to getting away from her abusive husband with her girls. I do love that her husband was murdered later. Too bad it wasn't sooner. Art you should have just killed him when you had the chance. I do hope Cindy's able to have some relationship with her daughter. 

Franks Best-I'll skip this one in the future. I hate people hurting animals. Tommy was such a piece of shit. His father was so blinded to what horrible person he was. It was good way to reveal by having his friend Stump come off terrible that everyone thought he was the scary one. 

I didn't really like 8 years. Good songs all from Springsteen

LOL, I think I'm the only person who likes 8 Years, it's actually one of my favorite episodes of the whole series. The Springsteen music was really well used and the themes were very relatable.

I always watch Perfect Day and then skip right to 8 Years, the dog abuse in Frank's Best is upsetting and I just don't like the episode that much.

Perfect Day is so frustrating with the near escape and then Cindy living the next 50 years not realizing her husband was dead and wasn't coming after her.

I watched Stalker yesterday and found it very strange that one guy with a gun could take 4 cops hostage in the police station. Not one of them had a gun in a holster? Stillman, Jeffries, and Vera are all behind the guy and not one reaches for a gun. Also, when Stillman gets shot, it's a huge hole blown in his chest but he still manages to stay alert and moving around for like 10 minutes and it's basically not talked about again after that. Lilly's need for a psychiatrist after getting shot is a storyline afterward, but no one really mentions Stillman being shot as well. 

The murderer in this episode is a pretty realistic creep, he grossed me out.

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Not one of them had a gun in a holster?

Remember, we always see them put their guns in lockers in that little alcove as they enter the squad room.

[ljenkins782]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

Remember, we always see them put their guns in lockers in that little alcove as they enter the squad room.

 Oh, that’s right. But with all the crackpots who wander in there, it seems like a bad idea that none of them have access to their weapons.

[andromeda331]

15 hours ago, GiandujaPie said:

Did Ken get murdered by the end of the episode? I didn't see that. 

No I wishing that happened. Ken was such a horrible person.

[andromeda331]

One Night- Wow, this was a great episode John was horrible. Burying two boys alive. I love how they did it with him walking into the station. That scene with John and the first boy's parents was so
good and horrible. Poor Steve so excited to go to prom only for his car to break down and run into a psycho. I'm glad they were able to find the second boy still alive. 

Superstar was okay. I'm glad Andi told her dad that she wanted more from life. 

Willkommen-I feel the same way about musicals as Lilly. I'm glad Gloria found out that Dennis really did love her and was ready to commit to her. I felt so bad for her when he started getting close to Nora. The murderer was an idiot. He really thought by killing Dennis the show would still go on? Ah, no it was going to be canceled because you know there was a murder.

Beautiful Little Fool-I felt bad for Violet Nick wasn't much better then her ex. I liked that there was more to Carmela. She at least tried to help by buying her songs and got the baby to a safe place.
I liked that the sister was great. 

Death Penlty Final Appeal-This episode was infuriating. The ADA knew all along that Andre was innocent and didn't care. He convicted him and did nothing to stop him being sentence to
execution. I loved Will decking him. I hope he got more then just fired for that. Poor Kate and her father. I liked that the father went to Andre's funeral. I wish they had been able to stop it though. I hate that Will got in trouble for punch the ADA.

The Hen House-Another horrible murderer. Even among the worse on the show Anton is right up there with him for being a Nazi camp guard who then escapes by passing himself off as one of the victims for decades. Even to poor Noah's nephew. That poor man learning the uncle he loved and took care of him was an imposter. Good for Lo for not backing down to Anton's declarations of love after she had been falling for him. I'm glad they published her article.

The River-I didn't really care about the victim. He threw away everything for gambling, almost killed a patient and robbed another patient. I don't care he decided to have his friend kill him so his family could get his life insurance money.

Joseph-It was an okay episode. I like the surprise of Joseph being alive.

[Bastet]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Superstar was okay. I'm glad Andi told her dad that she wanted more from life. 

That was my first episode, and got me hooked on the show.  I loved the coach, and thought the casting of the actor playing her (now the athletic director, which I love even more) in present day was great.

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Death Penlty Final Appeal

I have never been able to re-watch that one after learning Michael Jace, the actor who turned in such a touching performance as a man falsely convicted of murder, is doing 40 to life for killing his wife in front of their children.

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Joseph-It was an okay episode. I like the surprise of Joseph being alive.

I hate with the heat of a nova the weird-ass Joseph/Lilly relationship.  They gave her the worst partners, other than Kite.  Same with Scotty -- it's like those two were in a contest to see who could have the most ridiculous love life.

[kathyk24]

It's a pet peeve of mine that characters in procedurals don't have successful personal lives. One thing I like about Cold Case is that most of the murders happen in the heat of the moment instead of being killed by a psychopath. You are more likely to be killed by someone you know rather than a stranger.

[MarylandGirl]

On 8/27/2022 at 6:16 AM, andromeda331 said:

One Night- Wow, this was a great episode John was horrible. Burying two boys alive. I love how they did it with him walking into the station. That scene with John and the first boy's parents was so
good and horrible. Poor Steve so excited to go to prom only for his car to break down and run into a psycho. I'm glad they were able to find the second boy still alive. 

Agreed. This was one that really stuck with me. Making them write their wills was just so awful. Then the reunion with the two boys at the end was really touching.

16 hours ago, Bastet said:

That was my first episode, and got me hooked on the show.  I loved the coach, and thought the casting of the actor playing her (now the athletic director, which I love even more) in present day was great.

I have never been able to re-watch that one after learning Michael Jace, the actor who turned in such a touching performance as a man falsely convicted of murder, is doing 40 to life for killing his wife in front of their children.

I hate with the heat of a nova the weird-ass Joseph/Lilly relationship.  They gave her the worst partners, other than Kite.  Same with Scotty -- it's like those two were in a contest to see who could have the most ridiculous love life.

Ugh, I didn't know that about Michael Jace--how horrible.
I also hate the Joseph/Lilly relationship--it was just, well, weird-ass is a good way to describe it! I feel like with the bad partners, it seemed like their way of trying to show how messed up the main characters are, either as a result of the job or else that's why they're drawn to that job.

10 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

It's a pet peeve of mine that characters in procedurals don't have successful personal lives. One thing I like about Cold Case is that most of the murders happen in the heat of the moment instead of being killed by a psychopath. You are more likely to be killed by someone you know rather than a stranger.

That's a good point about how most of the murders are with someone the victim knew, how it's more realistic. Without a Trace that was discussed earlier was similar. Maybe that's why I come back to those shows more, as opposed to Criminal Minds, where it's all psychopaths. Also the focus on the lives of the victims.

[Bort]

12 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

One thing I like about Cold Case is that most of the murders happen in the heat of the moment instead of being killed by a psychopath. You are more likely to be killed by someone you know rather than a stranger.

There was a Canadian procedural called Motive that went by that premise. It was similar to Cold Case in that the murder was told in flashback form, but what it would do is they’d have a graphic on screen at the beginning flashbacks that told you who was the killer and who was the victim and the flashbacks would progress until they finally connected. 

[Bastet]

8 hours ago, MarylandGirl said:

I feel like with the bad partners, it seemed like their way of trying to show how messed up the main characters are, either as a result of the job or else that's why they're drawn to that job.

Scotty and Lilly have a conversation to that effect in the episode where they go to Nashville ("The Red and the Blue").

[andromeda331]

I didn't know that about Michael Jace either. How horrible. 

I didn't like Lilly and Joseph either. I didn't like how it started out with Lilly interested in him before they even met. She and Scotty were really good at having messed up relationships. I don't know if it was the whole great at the job messed up personal lives or what. I don't think it was necessary.

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I didn't know that about Michael Jace either. How horrible. 

I posted about it a couple of years ago when I found out.  I re-watched the whole series then, and each morning I'd check the trivia section of the IMDb pages for the episodes I'd watched the night before to see if there was anything interesting.  That's how I found out this man who'd so moved me with his performance is an abusive asshole in real life.  He abused his first wife as well.  Those poor kids; to live with having witnessed your mom's murder is horrifying enough, but for it to have been your own dad who killed her ... <shudder>.

[ljenkins782]

On 8/29/2022 at 2:28 PM, Bastet said:

I posted about it a couple of years ago when I found out.  I re-watched the whole series then, and each morning I'd check the trivia section of the IMDb pages for the episodes I'd watched the night before to see if there was anything interesting.  That's how I found out this man who'd so moved me with his performance is an abusive asshole in real life.  He abused his first wife as well.  Those poor kids; to live with having witnessed your mom's murder is horrifying enough, but for it to have been your own dad who killed her ... <shudder>.

Yeah, it ruined the episode for me too when you posted about it. He  also has a role in The Replacements, one of my fave sports movies, ironically also playing a convict. One who was released from prison just to play on this team. 

So he was definitely typecast, but sadly, I guess the shoe fit in this case.

Quote

I hate with the heat of a nova the weird-ass Joseph/Lilly relationship.  They gave her the worst partners, other than Kite.  Same with Scotty -- it's like those two were in a contest to see who could have the most ridiculous love life.

They tried to put Scotty with like 6 different versions of the same woman, it was tiresome. Always the tough-talking, hard-headed, ball-buster type (with the exception of his schizophrenic girlfriend and then Lily's messed up sister, whose relationship with Scotty worked for me for some reason). 

Lily had fewer opportunities, but most of them were not good after Kite. 

But I will always appreciate that the show didn't default to trying to make Lily and Scotty a couple just by default. Too many shows can't conceive of a man and a woman working in close proximity without a will they/won't they relationship and I liked that this one didn't go there. They always had each other's backs, but in a friends/fellow cops way.

[Bastet]

5 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Lily's messed up sister, whose relationship with Scotty worked for me for some reason

Ugh, I hate her stupid clingy sister.  I hate that wide-eyed, whiny faux innocent routine of hers, like she's just totally perplexed and wounded that Lilly doesn't want to deal with her self-induced messes anymore.  And I hate her relationship with Scotty, which every person in the world told each of them should absolutely not happen, but they're both idiots, so it did (Scotty, dude, here's a hint: if Nick Fucking Vera knows something is a bad idea, it's a BAD IDEA).  Each time the actor's name came up in the guest starring credits, I cringed.

I'm relieved there was no eighth season because they were running out of money to do the music properly, and the cases were getting less interesting, but also because I think they intended to let Scotty get away with murder, which would have been the final straw for me, and because Lilly would have been taking care of Christina and her baby, and Scotty would get his Captain Save-a-Ho complex on and help. <shudder>

16 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

But I will always appreciate that the show didn't default to trying to make Lily and Scotty a couple just by default. Too many shows can't conceive of a man and a woman working in close proximity without a will they/won't they relationship and I liked that this one didn't go there. They always had each other's backs, but in a friends/fellow cops way.

Yeah, I love that they never went there at all.  No hinting that Lilly not wanting Christina to date him was because she wanted him for herself (an impressive show of restraint given the background about Christina and the ex-fiancé), no putting them undercover as a couple, no near kiss while drunkenly commiserating their pathetic love lives, nothing.