The Speculation Of: Discuss here!

[formerlyfreedom]

Discuss unspoiled speculation here!

[The Hound Lives]

After re-watching the first two episodes, I am starting to think we won't know who killed Andrea, just that Naz didn't. While to the police it might be clear that Naz is guilty, we are seeing inside the action. Of course, there is a chunk of time we know nothing about yet but I am starting to think we won't ever know what happened completely in that pocket of time. We may see some more flashbacks, maybe of some rough stuff between them that will begin to point the finger at Naz and then other moments that give some conflicting evidence. I didn't watch the BBC version so I have nothing to go off of. Just wonder if the twist is there isn't a twist and we are left in the end in limbo. And even Naz, in the end, isn't sure what truly happened. 

[Tipsymcstagger]

Do you all think there's something beyond symbolism that they keep showing close ups of the deer head? Like maybe it's some crucial clue? Camera inside or something? Andrea seemed like a bit of a wild card so she could have taped some of her encounters. God - I love this show...

[The Hound Lives]

2 hours ago, Tipsymcstagger said:

Do you all think there's something beyond symbolism that they keep showing close ups of the deer head? Like maybe it's some crucial clue? Camera inside or something? Andrea seemed like a bit of a wild card so she could have taped some of her encounters. God - I love this show...

It wouldn't surprise me but I look at it now like a trophy. Hunter's mount their kills on the wall as "art". Totally their right, no judgement from me but I wonder if it's symbolic. Like Naz is being hung out as a trophy for the police, the DA and even his lawyer. 
Or maybe there is a camera but I would think it was unbeknownst to Andrea. Maybe someone was watching her. Maybe she was into sex games with a boyfriend and he liked to watch her bring men home. Maybe he was framed, not for any other reason than he was the unlucky chap you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's definitely a curious focal point. 

[Drogo]

They've also called Naz doe-eyed and "Bambi."

[The Hound Lives]

Just some general speculation but I mentioned in the forum for episode 3 that Freddy had a newspaper headline that read, "King of Queens". 
Stepdad from Queens. Naz from Queens. 
I can't make a connection between Naz and Freddy. I assume Freddy is 40-ish, so the circle they grew up in wouldn't be the same. 
But Stepdad...that is something that I can't shake. 
Freddy has been shown to have access to pretty much anything. He has cellphones at his disposal. He still can impact things on the outside, as evident in his conversation with Naz about Tito's daughters celebration. 
Could Andrea's death be connected to Freddy, via Stepdad? Was she a revenge kill? 

The only thing that puts a kink in this possible connection is Stepdad doesn't seem skittish or worried. If he is connected at all, I think he would be less forthcoming and maybe more shifty. Right now, he seems resigned and tired. 

I wonder if Freddy knows who did it or ordered it, as revenge like I mentioned OR she was in a drug fold with his crew, and he wants Naz to take the fall. He is grooming him. Taking him under his wing. He knows the truth but needs someone else to take the blame, so give Naz some security on the inside. Maybe get him to give a false confession with threats? Who knows...but I can't wait to see how these relationships come full circle. 

[Gobi]

I know nothing about the BBC show. Here are my suspects:

Naz - Not likely, but I wouldn't rule it out.

The two guys Naz encountered outside. There had to be a reason for that long glance at the brownstone by one, either he did it or he knows something that will be important. And why did his friend tell the police he was alone? What's he hiding?

The stepdad, a cliche maybe, but still a suspect.

The neighbor. Did he have a key to the brownstone? Did he get in, one way or another, saw Naz passed out, and decided to kill the girl, maybe after a failed pass at her? Then reported the break in to divert suspicion.

Paulina - Stone's other client. He was present in the police station, so he was out and about that night.  He got a lot of screen time for a seemingly unimportant character, and his comment about using a machete to cure eczema raises some hackles. He's my dark horse favorite for now.

[guilfoyleatpp]

I can't help but feel that we're going to see Naz convicted of this crime in the way Adnan Syed was...that there is enough circumstantial evidence for him to be convicted, and the police aren't really going to bother to look at anyone else since this guy wandered into their path. And the show will be about them bending the existing evidence and possibly strong arming or hiding witnesses who don't fall into line.

They even did the thing at the bail hearing where they said he was a flight risk because of his Pakistani heritage, just like Adnan.

[Gobi]

We're getting down to the wire (in a show with two "The Wire" alums, no less), so let's see where we are.

At the risk of offending, here's a tongue in cheek politically correct view of the suspects.

Naz - politically incorrect suspect.

Duane Reade and friend - politically incorrect suspects.

The limo driver who was eying Naz and Andrea at the gas station - politically incorrect suspect.

The neighbor - politically correct suspect.

Andrea's drug dealer - politically correct suspect.

Paulina (Stone's gay or transgender client) - politically incorrect suspect.

The stepfather - politically correct suspect. If we get a politically correct solution, my money's on him.

Other thoughts -

We keep getting shots of that deer head, I can't help but think it will play into the solution. Surveillance camera inside, perhaps? Also, the police took a blood sample from it. How did that get there? It was too far from the murder scene, and neither Naz nor Andrea (who had both cut themselves) were shown touching it on the way upstairs.

The knife Naz had on him is not  the murder weapon. When Box was discussing the case with the prosecutor, he said something like "it almost matches the wounds."

My fear is that we may get a Deus ex Machina solution, such as the police showing up with someone in handcuffs and saying his wife/mother/father/brother/whatever was suspicious, they checked it out and found his clothes covered in Andrea's blood and he confessed.

[Ellaria]

I will offer my speculation. I think that the stepfather is guilty of the murder. Right now, I can't pin a motive on him other than jealousy/resentment that Andrea inherited her mother's brownstone (and perhaps other sizable investments).

His behavior when asked to identify her body was odd as was his heated discussion with the mourner at the burial. (Do we know who that mourner is?) He would know the layout of the brownstone, including the broken back gate. He would know where the knives were kept (because the lime knife is not the murder weapon). 

I don't think that Stepdad has any connection to Freddy and what is happening to Naz in prison. There are unexplored aspects to Andrea's story that connect back to Stepdad and their troubled relationship. However, for him to be guilty, they have to get to this part of this story soon. What was significant about "that night" that caused Andrea to say that she couldn't be alone? 

Finally, I believe that Naz will be found not guilty. His experience within the criminal justice system will have taken away his innocence but he will not become a criminal. He will be an emotionally scarred young man that will deal with the aftermath of this experience forever. His family will suffer affects as well, financially and socially.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Ellaria Sand

[Neurochick]

I think the stepfather had her killed, but someone in Freddy's crew did it, which is why Freddy has taken to Naz, he KNOWS he's innocent. 

I hope Naz's family sues the city for millions, and when they get the money, move to Florida or California. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by Neurochick

[The Hound Lives]

6 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I think the stepfather had her killed, but someone in Freddy's crew did it, which is why Freddy has taken to Naz, he KNOWS he's innocent. 

I hope Naz's family sues the city for millions, and when they get the money, move to Florida or California. 

This is where the Queens connection can come in! HA...I am not letting that go! I like this spec. I am thinking maybe it was Dwayne who did it, hired by Stepdad. Trevor just happened to be walking with him but it was Duane who was "casing" the place. He saw Andrea return with Naz and that was what the look was for. A wrinkle in his plan because a man was with her. 
I think I change my mind on who did it every week!

[AuntiePam]

How about an ex-boyfriend?  Would we be too pissed off to have the killer be someone we haven't met yet?  Conventional wisdom is that vicious stabbings are always personal.  Unless it's a serial killer, and we haven't heard about any knife-wielding serial killers on the loose.  So someone she knew, someone who was pissed off at her.  Dwayne wouldn't have been pissed off.

Whoever did it had to have left the apartment with a lot of blood on him.  So he'd either live close by, or would have his own car -- you can't get on public transportation with blood on you, not even in NYC.  (Can you?)

[teddysmom]

Quote

The stepfather - politically correct suspect. If we get a politically correct solution, my money's on him.

He hired Duane Reade to kill her.  

[The Hound Lives]

Since we don't want spoilers here, I am going to cover this because it has to do the preview for the next episode. 
 

Spoiler

During the preview, you see someone in the jail getting knocked over from behind. I think this is the guy on Freddy's crew who attacked Naz in the bathroom and told him not to tell Freddy what he saw (the blow-job). There are two scenarios that I am running with here. Naz did tell Freddy and Freddy is attacking him, kicking him off his "crew", therefore he is a sitting duck in prison. OR, Naz attacked him in retaliation and to assert his power and put all that working out to use. Either way, I think this will have huge implications for Naz in the end. Since the episode is called "Ordinary Death"...the guy attacked might die from the fight and in jail, it is ordinary. Just another day in the life of inmates. 
I keep going back to when Omar was shot at the end of The Wire by the little kid (whose name escapes me). I keep thinking Naz will be found not guilty or another suspect will be brought forward (still thinking Freddy will play a part in this because of his line "What's another murder wrap?" from an earlier episode). But the greatest danger will be outside the walls of Rikers and revenge will be around the corner. Maybe drug mule Mom, whose son no longer has Freddy's protection because of this? 
I really read too much into every detail.

[Ellaria]

I think that Naz will be found not guilty. Stone and Chandra will be able to present just enough contradictory information to cause reasonable doubt. There is also the chain of custody issue with the knife which could cause problems for the prosecutor. (Quick question: does anyone that can influence the trial know about the chain of custody issue?)

Having said that, I don't believe that we will get 100% confirmation of who actually committed the murder. At this point, how would that even come to pass? The deer on the wall starts talking? Someone develops a conscience and confesses? The police aren't looking for another suspect. Stone/Chandra are not required to present definitive proof that someone else "did it." Frankly, the circumstances surrounding the murderer's actions - enter the house at the precise time, head upstairs, kill her in a violent rage and leave while Naz passed out on the kitchen counter - pushes credulity.

[jbrecken]

Maybe Andrea was messed up enough to take out a hit on herself, which would explain why she was experimenting with Naz to see if she'd taken enough drugs not to feel a stab wound.

[preeya]

17 hours ago, jbrecken said:

Maybe Andrea was messed up enough to take out a hit on herself, which would explain why she was experimenting with Naz to see if she'd taken enough drugs not to feel a stab wound.

Interesting thought. I do recall in the first episode while at "the beach" she said to Naz, something like "I can't be alone tonight" or "don't leave me alone tonight."  That stuck with me throughout but I could never apply it to anything.

Edited August 22, 2016 by preeya

[Ellaria]

I am assuming that "the kiss" will come back to haunt Chandra and have some impact on Naz' defense. There is a reason why they made a point of showing that it was caught on camera. I wonder how it will be addressed.

[justjen]

Two ideas/theories have been bouncing around in my head, I'm not sure where to put either. I haven't seen and know nothing about the BBC original except that it exists.

1. Since we're STILL getting close-ups of Stone's feet, I feel like he's going to have a huge Billy Flynn moment in the courtroom (see also: "Razzle Dazzle").

2. I think it is the financial planner/wealth management guy. And here is why:

- When Andrea's mom died and he got to spend time with Andrea, he fell for her;

- Maybe he called or something prior to her getting in the cab and she's like "I'm just not into you, but thanks for all your help," something like that;

- He goes to her place to try to talk her into being into him, but sees her with Naz and falls into a blind rage and kills her.

- He's played by a recognizable actor ("Joey" and "Royal Pains") and why would they put a recognizable actor in a role like that if it isn't going to pay off

[Gobi]

8 hours ago, justjen said:

Two ideas/theories have been bouncing around in my head, I'm not sure where to put either. I haven't seen and know nothing about the BBC original except that it exists.

1. Since we're STILL getting close-ups of Stone's feet, I feel like he's going to have a huge Billy Flynn moment in the courtroom (see also: "Razzle Dazzle").

2. I think it is the financial planner/wealth management guy. And here is why:

- When Andrea's mom died and he got to spend time with Andrea, he fell for her;

- Maybe he called or something prior to her getting in the cab and she's like "I'm just not into you, but thanks for all your help," something like that;

- He goes to her place to try to talk her into being into him, but sees her with Naz and falls into a blind rage and kills her.

- He's played by a recognizable actor ("Joey" and "Royal Pains") and why would they put a recognizable actor in a role like that if it isn't going to pay off

Your theory about the financial planner makes no logical sense, nor  is it justified by anything that we've seen in the show. Therefore, I strongly suspect that you are correct.

[BooBear]

On 8/25/2016 at 4:57 PM, Gobi said:

Your theory about the financial planner makes no logical sense, nor  is it justified by anything that we've seen in the show. Therefore, I strongly suspect that you are correct.

It is a good theory. I also thought such a recognizable actor in a small part seemed interesting. Though Zap 2it is running with a theory that the killer is John Stone.

[AuntiePam]

8 minutes ago, BooBear said:

It is a good theory. I also thought such a recognizable actor in a small part seemed interesting. Though Zap 2it is running with a theory that the killer is John Stone.

Seriously?  Based on what?  His concern for the cat? 

[BooBear]

28 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

Seriously?  Based on what?  His concern for the cat? 

Yes.
1. Zap thinks that for someone who is allergic he is a little too obsessed with saving a cat of a woman he doesn't know;

2. He seemed really interested in Naz right from the start.

3. He had a whole bunch of drugs and so did Andrea... maybe that is how they knew each other.

4. He likes prostitutes, it was suggested that Andrea had a sketchy past.

It would be a great twist if they could pull it off but... nahh.

[Ellaria]

I've been thinking about what I want to see on Sunday night...

I would love to see the actual sequence of events on "the night of," including who committed the murder. Even though we are getting a super-sized finale, I don't expect a great deal of resolution. And I certainly don't expect a happy ending. I also don't need for the actual murderer to be brought to justice. I just want to know "whodunit."

[Gobi]

All right, everyone; it's crunch time. Tomorrow is the big finale, time to let everyone know who your prime suspect is. All the ones that I could think of are listed below. Let's hear from you.

Naz - If so, then the show was about how a murderer is brutalized by the system.

Freddy - Not personally, of course, but was paid by someone to arrange it.

Trevor - He really didn't want anyone to know what he did or where he was the night of.

Dwayne Reade - Either on his own or hired to do it.

The Neighbor - No justification for him to have done it, which in this show makes him a prime candidate.

Stone - Hey, it's been suggested.

Paulina -Stone's client, got a lot of screen time for no apparent  reason.

Evil Stepdad - Practically twirled his mustache during the show.

That Guy Naz threw done the stairs in High School - He's been following Naz ever since, waiting for the perfect revenge and saw his chance to set up Naz for murder.

Andrea's Drug Dealer - It wasn't about the money, it was about sending a message.

Hearse Driver - Just because he's so creepy; although, I think that I saw a red herring tattooed on his forehead.

Suicide - Andrea had a history of cutting herself, maybe she went too far this time.

Financial Planner - No plausible real life reason for it to be him, which makes him my odds on favorite.

The Cat - Those were claw marks, not stab wounds.

Someone In Stone's Support Group  - If only to give a purpose to that whole eczema subplot.

Someone We've Never Seen Or Heard Of - Because the show is that meta.

We're Never Told - Naz is or isn't convicted, but we never find out if he was innocent or not.

The Effing Deer Head - OK, the EDH probably didn't do it, but I bet it knows who did.

[Gobi]

To formulate a semi-reasonable solution to the case - Knowing that he would be the prime suspect (absent the  unforeseeable presence of Naz), Evil Stepdad hires Dwayne, either directly or through Freddy (how he managed this will be hand waved away) to kill Andrea and establishes an airtight alibi. Dwayne has a problem. He knows that Naz might still be in the brownstone (maybe he even recognized the cab parked outside), so he plans to kill both of them. Finding Naz passed out, he decides to set him up instead, a much better plan. Or, it was not Dwayne and the hired killer simply didn't see Naz passed out in the kitchen.

This show is more likely to go with the Financial Planner, who did it because  reasons.

FWIW - Numerous stab wounds does not necessarily mean a crime of  passion.  Unless you know what you're doing, it is very difficult to kill someone with a knife. It can take many stabs.

[BooBear]

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

Financial Planner - No plausible real life reason for it to be him, which makes him my odds on favorite.

The Cat - Those were claw marks, not stab wounds.

Someone We've Never Seen Or Heard Of - Because the show is that meta.

These are my top three guesses. Financial Planner guy is a hell of suspicious because he is so clearly directing stone to the step dad though, he has no real reason to get involved. 

The cat... well, it has motive as Andrea kicked it out earlier that night.

I will be so disappointed if they pull someone out of a hat but too many stories do this when then want to be "shocking". But I do think it will be resolved.

[Gobi]

More suspects.

Chandra - She and Andrea were lovers and/or Andrea stole her lover. Either way, it led to a nasty fight and Andrea dead. Far fetched, you say? What about  this dialogue from the first episode:

Naz "Do you have a girlfriend?"

Andrea: "Would that turn you on?"

Remember Chandra telling Stone that she had recently ended a relationship? Now she's doing a deliberately poor job defending Naz, making sure he's convicted. Her kissing him shows her feeling guilt and that she makes poor relationship choices.

Hannibal Lecter - He's still free, and Mads Mikkelsen is available.

Jack the Ripper - Fits his MO and he was never caught. It has been theorized that he fled to America.

The Spanish Inquisition - Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

[Ellaria]

2 hours ago, Gobi said:

FWIW - Numerous stab wounds does not necessarily mean a crime of  passion.  Unless you know what you're doing, it is very difficult to kill someone with a knife. It can take many stabs.

Agree. The violence of the murder does not necessarily mean that Andrea had a relationship with her killer or even knew her killer. At the very least, we can say that it wasn't a methodical kill. Nonetheless, 22 stab wounds is excessive. I am cautious about reading too much into nature of her death. I think that it was done primarily for dramatic effect.

I don't think that it was a hired hit. Whoever wanted her dead did it with their own hands. The most obvious candidate is Evil Stepdad but that's my problem...it is too obvious. He has questionable morals but that doesn't necessarily make him a killer.

The eager-to-help Financial Planner (FP) is a curious character. If he feels that his suspicions have merit, why not go to the police? (Yes, yes; the police are overworked and tired in this show.) Why wait for Stone to come stumbling into his office with questions? I'm not sure what purpose he serves other than to implicate the Evil Stepdad. Unless, of course, the FP is the killer which, for me, would be massively disappointing because we have no sense of a possible motive.

Two other thoughts:

• I'm concerned that the reveal of the killer will be a massive deus ex machina. 
• The killer was familiar with the layout of the house.

[justjen]

I won't be able to watch the show until tonight. It is so hard to not look at the story/comments about last night's episode. I'm dying to know if I'm right about the financial planner guy (Michael Tribbiani??), but I also don't know if I want to know. Honestly trying to keep from reading spoilers is a full time job right now.