Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Leaks are false? No Dany and Jon having sex while the wall comes down :(

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/589ymo/pm_from_uawayforthelads_sorry_buddy_but_i_just/

Looks like it is only Davos (And maybe Brienne) who goes south to meet with Dany and Tyrion...

Unless we get actual pics of Kit Harington filming in Spain, I think we should put off speculation of Jon in the South.

Javi (@javimgol) is adamant that Kit and Emilia will be filming in Zumaia (Itzurun beach scenes), not in Barrika (the scenes currently being filmed with Peter and Liam). Zumaia filming hasn't started yet. Right now, it's Barrika. Zumaia filming hasn't taken place yet.

We already know Jon goes south, since it was spoiled that he meets with Theon and not in the North. 

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Isn't the fact that Ned tells Arya that she will marry a King (even though Arya also rejects that fate and says that's Sansa's fate and not hers) claimed to be foreshadowing for Arya?

Sure, but there's a difference between "You will marry a king," which sounds like a prophecy and where the only action needed to be taken is by Arya, and "When you're old enough, I will make you a match with a high lord who's worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong," which if it is a prophecy can never be fulfilled, given that Ned dies before he can make good on that promise and that when Sansa does marry in the books at an age that's well short of "old enough"....well, it's a to a high lord, and that's about as far as it goes when it comes to Ned's list. My point was that if Sansa's not at any point in ASOIAF concerned with finding someone worthy of her, brave, gentle and strong and is attracted to Joffrey and Sandor despite their obvious deficiencies when it comes to that list (Sansa knows that Sandor "turned craven" at Blackwater and doesn't blame him for it, since it was "only the fire he feared"), why should the fans be obsessed with pairing her up with someone who ticks the boxes on that checklist and so determined that she will be paired up with someone who ticks those boxes? If the lady in question herself doesn't care, why should they?

There's also a lot of queen symbolism in Arya's storyline unrelated to the "You will marry a king" quote. On its own, it's not all that remarkable, but taken as part of a whole (including, among other things, Arya naming her direwolf after a queen), it sticks out. Sansa on the other hand has all her romance subtext, symbolism, etc. insofar as she has any in ASOIAF pointed in one direction: to Sandor, who's about as far from a "high lord" as you can get. She has a fake memory of Sandor kissing her that gets increasingly romanticized every time she "remembers" it, casting herself as the abandoned lover ("left me with nothing but a bloody cloak"). She thinks of Sandor's kiss when asked about whether she knows what goes on in the marriage bed. She has a dream where she replaces Tyrion in her bed with Sandor (possible marriage foreshadowing?). She compares other men to Sandor. Come on. It doesn't mean they're endgame, necessarily, but just like Jaime/Brienne, it's about as a subtle as a 2x4. It mystifies me that some readers try to parse the tea leaves and carefully sift through minute details of the books to try to argue that this or that non-SanSan ship is going to happen and not SanSan, when SanSan is right there with a thousand neon light arrows pointing to it.

The other thing is that Ned said he would match Sansa up with a "high lord." If one ships Jon/Sansa, that's of no help, since Jon isn't a high lord either, for that matter. I think we can safely write off Ned's checklist as having any sort of prophetic value, unless you think Ned's going to come back from beyond the grave to be Sansa's matchmaker.

I'm pretty sure Ned would be horrified at Sansa ending up with Sandor. Doesn't mean that she won't, though.

There's nothing wrong with saying "Jon/Sansa would be cute because he's a worthy, cute, age-appropriate guy who would treat her well." It's where the arguments get into "Jon and Sansa are definitely going to be endgame and if Jon and Sansa don't end up together I will never forgive GRRM and/or D&D for toying with my emotions" territory that they lose me.

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ETA: The news that all those ridiculous spoilers are fake

They're not all fake. Source docmantistobogan has said that there's nothing in the leak they can confirm as false and that they know for a fact at least two things that the leaker said are true. Some of the spoilers have already been confirmed correct: Jon goes south, Jon meets with Theon, Gendry being in King's Landing, Davos and Tyrion meet up with Gendry, Dany lands at Dragonstone with Tyrion, Dany uses Dragonstone as her base of operations, etc. Either the poster who posted the "confession" PM photoshopped it, the leaker is lying when he claimed he made it all up--not a bad idea, given what happened to Frikidoctor--or he's a better guesser than 99.5% of the fandom, despite not coming off as a hardcore fan (misspelling Targaryen as "Targareyon," confusing Beric and Thoros, etc.).

It's clear that some of it's real and some of it's made up. The only question at this point is how much is real and how much is made up. There will be multiple exterior scenes shot in Spain over the next few weeks. They will go a long way towards confirming or disproving some of the spoilers.

ETA:

More tweets from Javi:

"First pictures of GOT filming on Muriola Beach. Tyrion, Davos and...somebody else."

"Tomorrow runthroughs and maybe filming in Bermeo-Bakio (San Gaztelugatxe beach), in theory with Unsullied extras and Emilia Clarke."

"Ah, and while you're reading this they're continuing to film on Muriola Beach."

Article on L7R posted states that sources confirm that Joe Dempsie was also filming along with Peter Dinklage and Liam Cunningham (which is odd, because there's no sign of Joe Dempsie in the photos and videos of today's filming). L7R says that the scene is Tyrion, Davos and Gendry returning to Dragonstone from another location. Barrika/Bermeo filming will continue until October 22nd, after which production will move to Zumaia (Itzurun beach filming).

The leaker claimed that Bronn would sneak Davos and Tyrion into KL for a secret meeting with Jaime, and that Davos would find Gendry in KL making weapons (and, I guess, convince him to side with Jon, since Gendry is also supposedly involved in Operation Wight Retrieval later in the season). A scene where Davos, Tyrion and Gendry appear to be returning to Dragonstone from somewhere else would align with that.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Eyes High

[WearyTraveler]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I believe Javi said that Gendry is acting in KL ("Yo se que [Gendry] actua en Desembarco y se reune con Davos en algun momento"),

The exact translation is "I know that [Gendry] acts in King's Landing and meets up with Davos at some point".  Also a good thing to watch for when translating is that he writes "Desembarco" with a capital "D" which indicates a proper noun (as it does in English).  If he were referring to an act of landing, he'd spell it "desembarco" (which really is more than landing, it actually means to get out of the boat itself, and it's also used as the oposite of boarding a plane: embarcar means board, desembarcar means disembark)

[anamika]

52 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

The leaker claimed that Bronn would sneak Davos and Tyrion into KL for a secret meeting with Jaime, and that Davos would find Gendry in KL making weapons (and, I guess, convince him to side with Jon, since Gendry is also supposedly involved in Operation Wight Retrieval later in the season). A scene where Davos, Tyrion and Gendry appear to be returning to Dragonstone from somewhere else would align with that.

Yes, it's clear that the leaker got some things right.  He could be adding some embellishments and fake plots to what he knows to be true. If we get pics of Kit filming in Spain, then I think we can confirm the whole Jon-Dany meeting in Dragonstone stuff. And that would mean: Nothing that the leaker has said so far has been proved false while several things he said has been proved right. 

The re-introduction of Gendry is interesting, considering that his plot is in the South, while Arya possibly heads North. The spoilers did say that Arya and Gendry meet, I think, but I don't see that happening if Gendry is hanging out in KL. Maybe his Baratheon background will play a role and Dany will give him the Stormlands at the end of it all.  Or he may end up getting a quick death, like several of the other guest actors last season.

Really looking forward to that Tyrion-Davos interaction!

Edited October 19, 2016 by anamika

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, WearyTraveler said:

The exact translation is "I know that [Gendry] acts in King's Landing and meets up with Davos at some point".  Also a good thing to watch for when translating is that he writes "Desembarco" with a capital "D" which indicates a proper noun (as it does in English).  If he were referring to an act of landing, he'd spell it "desembarco" (which really is more than landing, it actually means to get out of the boat itself, and it's also used as the oposite of boarding a plane: embarcar means board, desembarcar means disembark)

Thanks for that.

48 minutes ago, anamika said:

Yes, it's clear that the leaker got some things right.  He could be adding some embellishments and fake plots to what he knows to be true. If we get pics of Kit filming in Spain, then I think we can confirm the whole Jon-Dany meeting in Dragonstone stuff. And that would mean: Nothing that the leaker has said so far has been proved false while several things he said has been proved right.

Javi claimed that he's 99% certain that Kit will be involved in the Zumaia Itzurun beach filming. It is 100% confirmed thanks to a French news article that there are two scenes to be filmed at Itzurun beach (maybe more, that part's not clear): Dany's landing at Dragonstone with Tyrion (the shot involving the 50 rowers), and a scene shot in a grotto at the base of the cliffs that needs to be shot at low tide. An anonymous poster on the L chat board claimed that the grotto scene is Jon and Davos landing at Dragonstone and being met by Unsullied; the poster also claimed that this sequence will be shot at night. If this is correct, there won't be any scenes of Kit and Emilia filming together, but if Kit shows up in Spain for any Zumaia filming, then yeah, it confirms Jon in the south at Dragonstone. It's unlikely there will be photos and video footage of Kit and Liam filming the grotto scene if it is a night shoot, but I don't see how Kit's going to avoid detection in Zumaia when Peter, Liam and Joe Dempsie were all spotted in Bilbao in short order this week.

I don't get the sudden doubt cast on the leaker when a number of things the leaker has said--including things no one guessed for Season 7--have already been proven accurate. Some of it--a lot of the big claims like Arya killing LF and Jon/Dany sex--won't be verified until the season airs, but the exterior scenes will confirm a lot.

The proof in the pudding as to whether or not the bulk of the leak is made up will be the dragonpit scene at the Italica ruins in Santiponce. The leaker has made the outrageous claim that this scene is a parley where pretty much everyone (Lannisters, Davos, Dany, Missandei, Jon, etc.) is present and where Team Jon/Dany produces a live wight to scare some sense into Jaime and Cersei. If the leaker is right, it should be pretty easy to figure out from the actors spotted in Santiponce. If the leaker is wrong, you might expect to see Maisie or Sophie in the area, since the leaker was very emphatic about them being in Winterfell for the last part of the season.

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The re-introduction of Gendry is interesting, considering that his plot is in the South, while Arya possibly heads North. The spoilers did say that Arya and Gendry meet

I could be mistaken, but the leak was very clear about Jon and Arya not meeting in Season 7. All the leaker has said about Gendry is that Davos meets him in KL making weapons, Davos makes a rowing joke, and Gendry is part of Operation Wight Retrieval when Jon, Tormund, Beric, Thoros, Jorah, and Sandor head beyond the Wall to capture a wight. If Gendry stays with Jon for the duration of Season 7, it seems unlikely he'll meet Arya. (Ditto for Sandor meeting Sansa in Season 7.)

Edited October 19, 2016 by Eyes High

[ElizaD]

5 hours ago, Eyes High said:

...I agree it's a bit thin (not sure what Tyrion is supposed to be doing when Jon, Davos et al. head out for Operation Wight Retrieval), but it seems like enough for Tyrion to do for seven episodes, particularly when the surviving characters are now all being jammed together and have to share scene time with each other.

If the leak is right, Tyrion's appointed role in the show will be the bleeding heart pacifist who talks (or tries to talk) Dany off the ledge when she's getting too suspicious or too murdery, which to be fair isn't much of a stretch from what he did in 6x09. I have to laugh at Tyrion trying to talk Dany out of launching an attack on KL that would kill lots of innocent KL civilians, since at the trial he said he should have let Stannis kill all of them.

Yes, it's better than him getting scenes just because (Meereen in season 6, Jaime in Dorne) and I expect the character interaction to be more entertaining than anything he's done after season 4, but because of my own expectations, it's odd to read the spoilers and get the feeling that he's playing the role of a more important Varys - it's a supporting character vibe, not the two main characters vibe that I got with Jon/Sansa scenes and expect with Sansa/Arya and especially Jon/Dany. To me Tyrion feels like a character who should do something, make a big contribution to the ending beyond telling Dany not to burn people and getting the Rock as a thank you. Maybe that's season 8 stuff, if Dany and Jon both go to fight the Walkers and Tyrion is in charge of the non-Cersei controlled south.

... Most people seem to have dismissed Tyrion as the valonqar (I've always done that), but after reading about Jaime riding North and Tyrion possibly being in a position to realize that Cersei doesn't intend to honor the agreement the spoilers mention, I'm starting to wonder a little.  Maybe Cersei will be half wrong and half right - Dany not Margaery is the queen, but Tyrion is indeed the valonqar.

[Happy Harpy]

Gendry and Davos? *undignified squee* The only reunions I want more than this one are Gendry/Arya, Arya/Nymeria and Jon/Arya/Bran. And the only thing I want more, any of those characters not being killed off, of course.

I find it interesting that The Smith is back at Dragonglass'R'US Dragonstone. Can't be a coincidence, imo. IIRC, someone once asked  GRR Martin about Gendry forging Valyrian Steel and he qualified it a "very interesting question". Or on the show, Gendry could inherit from the skills of another character, like he did with Edric's storyline, and help forging weapons to fight the WW.

And I, too, am looking forward to Davos and Tyrion interacting. They  both finally serve a worthy King/Queen and are (on the show at least) a similar blend of principles and realism. Also, L.Cunnigham and P.Dinklage in the same scene? Yes, please. Oh, and Brienne/Gwen Christie in the vicinity...At this point, it's almost fanservice for me, LOL.

I know that after many protagonists/my favorite ended S6 in a pretty good place, GoT is going to rip my heart out again. But for now, all I see is epic pay-off.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, ElizaD said:

Yes, it's better than him getting scenes just because (Meereen in season 6, Jaime in Dorne) and I expect the character interaction to be more entertaining than anything he's done after season 4, but because of my own expectations, it's odd to read the spoilers and get the feeling that he's playing the role of a more important Varys - it's a supporting character vibe, not the two main characters vibe that I got with Jon/Sansa scenes and expect with Sansa/Arya and especially Jon/Dany. To me Tyrion feels like a character who should do something, make a big contribution to the ending beyond telling Dany not to burn people and getting the Rock as a thank you. Maybe that's season 8 stuff, if Dany and Jon both go to fight the Walkers and Tyrion is in charge of the non-Cersei controlled south.

... Most people seem to have dismissed Tyrion as the valonqar (I've always done that), but after reading about Jaime riding North and Tyrion possibly being in a position to realize that Cersei doesn't intend to honor the agreement the spoilers mention, I'm starting to wonder a little.  Maybe Cersei will be half wrong and half right - Dany not Margaery is the queen, but Tyrion is indeed the valonqar.

It looks like Tyrion will get up to some mischief with Davos and Gendry from the most recent confirmed filming spoilers, so he won't be glued to Dany's hip all season.

The Daily Mail has posted some more photographs of today's filming at Barrika. Not only are Davos and Tyrion present, but there are two goldcloaks, described as "chain mail guards" in the article, present. The Daily Mail also describes the scene: Davos and Tyrion disembark the boat and start walking up the beach.

If you look very, very closely at the photograph of the scene where the guards, Davos and Tyrion are present, you can see standing next to Peter Dinklage a fifth figure, wearing what appears to be a GOT costume (a long brown tunic over pants). Gendry?

With the goldcloaks present, it seems as if this scene is Tyrion and Davos' arrival in KL, not their return to Dragonstone.

[SeanC]

The guy who posted the Reddit screencap has admitted he fabricated it, so good news, J/D sex while the wall comes down is still possible.  Keep hope alive!

[Edith]

I do think those leaks are true. After rolling my eyes when I read that Cersei is pregnant or that Arya stupidly falls into Littlefinger's trap. I actually can see Jon and Dany being responsible for the wall falling (and showing this two having sex while the wall comes down). 

That is something that, at least for me, comes directly from GRRM. How many times has he compared dragons to nuclear weapons? How many times has he said that both WW and dragons are bad news for Westeros? how many time in the story we have good characters acting with good intentions and screwing up big time? 

Also this open up a new question. What happens if in the war for the  dawn the night king kills another dragon? 

[amandawoods]

Honestly,the Jon and Dany spoilers don't bother me that much.  Its the Theon abandoning his sister, Meera leaving for home(unless she comes back with her dad), and Cersei pregnant then miscarrying that bother me.  I'm hoping that the leaker is just projecting his thoughts on how scenes will go.  

[FemmyV]

3 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

IIRC, someone once asked  GRR Martin about Gendry forging Valyrian Steel and he qualified it a "very interesting question". Or on the show, Gendry could inherit from the skills of another character, like he did with Edric's storyline, and help forging weapons to fight the WW.

I suspect someone is going to be needed to reforge Ice, Ned's sword, before the end. Because Tywin is just that much an asshole, even in death.

Are we sure Jon/ Dany going horizontal is what brings down the wall? Could it not be NK gets his hands on that magic horn, or what have you, at the same time?

I've got to hold out some hope Theon will find his spine for once and for all in Season 8. Am okay with Meera going home - she's done enough and she lost her brother. Keeping him safe was more or less the #1 reason she went with him, poor thing. Could have sworn, though, GRRM did say that Howland Reed would make an appearance before all was over.

[SeanC]

13 minutes ago, FemmyV said:

Are we sure Jon/ Dany going horizontal is what brings down the wall? Could it not be NK gets his hands on that magic horn, or what have you, at the same time?

There was nothing in the spoilers suggesting a causal connection.  Those things were just happening at the same time.

[Edith]

13 minutes ago, FemmyV said:

I suspect someone is going to be needed to reforge Ice, Ned's sword, before the end. Because Tywin is just that much an asshole, even in death.

Are we sure Jon/ Dany going horizontal is what brings down the wall? Could it not be NK gets his hands on that magic horn, or what have you, at the same time?

I've got to hold out some hope Theon will find his spine for once and for all in Season 8. Am okay with Meera going home - she's done enough and she lost her brother. Keeping him safe was more or less the #1 reason she went with him, poor thing. Could have sworn, though, GRRM did say that Howland Reed would make an appearance before all was over.

According to the leaks is Dead Viserion who brings the wall down with blue fire

[Eyes High]

Even if the Redditor who claimed to have a confession that the leaker was joking made it all up, there is some information casting doubt on the leaks being 100% true. It's clear that the leaker has made some shit up and gotten some things wrong (leaker doesn't mention KL parade scene mentioned by D&D, leaker initially claimed that Brienne spent the whole season at Winterfell and then when confronted with the dragonpit Dany/Davos/Brienne meeting spoiler "remembered" that Brienne does in fact go south), and it's equally clear that the leaker had access to at least some inside information by providing some confirmed spoilers (Jon meeting Theon, Davos and Tyrion meeting Gendry, etc.). It's just a question of how much is made up and how much is legit inside info. 50/50? 75/25? 25/75?

On that point: two posters in the thread where the Redditor posted the alleged PM claimed that the leaker had made things up (which is undisputed at this point, it's just a question of how much is made up and how much is real):

1. User /starkandlannister: Claims "top" level source inside knowledge and that "at least half" of things leaker wrote are wrong. Starkandlannister says "I KNOW that Jon doesn't go to Dragonstone and doesn't meet Daenerys in episode 2...not even close. All I can say is that some people in the north will go south and meet Daenerys, but not Jon, and it's not as early as episode 2. So, your story about Jon and Daenerys meeting early and spending most of the season together etc...just a fan fiction...like I said, not even close." Later says that leaker "was making up at least half of what he wrote."

2. User /sternidae: Claims that they have an "in" with one of the VFX companies used by GOT and with Telecine. Sternidae says they're skeptical about leaker's spoilers because some would require VFX and Sternidae hadn't heard anything about plans for such effects. "All I've heard for VFX is a massive evening sunset scene, enhanced crowd population scenes, and something 'significant' with Daenerys and another thus far unnamed character. I don't know what that is or who the other character is. The word in quotes [significant] is all I was told about that."

In another post, Sternidae said that the VFX company was "instructed to have a clear shot of an eastern sunset over the open sea illuminating the water. Good authority the sunset scene is in the season finale and par of the final shots."

...I'm skeptical about Sternidae, since there was a WOTW poster who around Season 6 was dropping foilers on WOTW claiming to have an in with one of the VFX companies used by GOT. The way it's written, I think this might be the same foiler poster. 

As for Starkandlannister, the user is emphatic that Jon doesn't go to Dragonstone. The leaker claims that he does. Javi and some of the local press in Spain are convinced that Kit Harington is filming in Zumaia, i.e. the Itzurun beach which is doubling for the Dragonstone beach. It should be pretty easy to figure out whether the leaker is correct about Jon coming to Dragonstone, since Zumaia filming is scheduled for October 25th-29th. It will also be pretty easy to figure out if Starkandlannister is correct about some northern characters coming south but not Jon, since the dragonpit scene which WOTW has said will involve characters from different storylines will be filmed at some point over the next few weeks. 

Finally, the Davos/Tyrion/Gendry scene on the beach filmed today doesn't actually jive with the leaks. In the scene, Davos and Tyrion are landing on a beach near KL (due to the presence of the goldcloaks), and Gendry is with them (or shows up). According to the leak, Tyrion and Davos sneak into KL with Bronn's help and Davos meets up with Gendry while they're in the city (and he presumably leaves KL with them to return to Dragonstone, since Gendry later goes beyond the Wall with Jon to hunt wights). I guess it's possible that the "goldcloaks" are Bronn's guys sent to meet with Tyrion and Davos, but that doesn't explain what Gendry's doing there.

...It could be that the leaker was right in a general sense about major plot points (Tyrion and Davos sneak into KL and meet up with Gendry at some point) and fuzzy about the details. Still, it doesn't quite line up.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

WOTW:  Tobias Menzies indicated to be in Belfast, so perhaps Arya is indeed going to spring her uncle from jail.

[Eyes High]

Update on Leakergate: Awayforthelads has finally deleted his account.

Meanwhile, Jon Kortajarena on Instagram posted a Season 6 promotional photo of Jon and Dany and stated "So proud of having these talented people filming in my hometown. It has been delightful meeting you. @dunmug [Line Producer on GOT] #Euskadi." Not sure if he meant Duncan Muggoch, the GOT cast or Kit and Emilia in particular, but his account is verified and followed by Emilia and Sophie for whatever it's worth.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

More from pap4u, this time showing Ellie Kendrick at the Moneyglass (Winterfell exteriors) set yesterday.  I believe that's the first indication of her filming thus far.

Sophie's back in Belfast.

[ElizaD]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Meanwhile, Jon Kortajarena on Instagram posted a Season 6 promotional photo of Jon and Dany and stated "So proud of having these talented people filming in my hometown. It has been delightful meeting you. @dunmug [Line Producer on GOT] #Euskadi." Not sure if he meant Duncan Muggoch, the GOT cast or Kit and Emilia in particular, but his account is verified and followed by Emilia and Sophie for whatever it's worth.

Since it's his hometown he probably just visited the set and partied with them, but I'd be fine with GOT casting a supermodel like Kortajarena to play Rhaegar if he only appears in a short scene like a wedding flashback; that wouldn't require much acting ability and a model would be ridiculously goodlooking like Rhaegar is said to have been.

While it was possible that Jon would stay in the North and only meet Dany in the final episode or season 8, this news does make it look increasingly likely that they'll be meeting early, whether it leads to epic sex or not.

[SeanC]

Kit is in Bilbao.

[Happy Harpy]

Gendry with a warhammer. Gendry fighting with a warhammer. In a scene with Davos and Tyrion.

Excuse-me while I fangirl all over.

[Eyes High]

30 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Gendry with a warhammer. Gendry fighting with a warhammer. In a scene with Davos and Tyrion.

Excuse-me while I fangirl all over.

For those not in the know, someone posted video of a Muriola Beach scene with Tyrion, Davos, Gendry, and the goldcloaks. Since it's likely to be taken down at any moment, here's a summary (no dialogue could be heard in the video):

Davos and Gendry are throwing things--including Gendry's big warhammer--in a boat and appear to be readying a departure, when accosted by two goldcloaks. Davos either pays them or bribes them. The goldcloaks then advance on the boat. Davos removes the cover and appears to gesture as if to show that there's nothing hidden. The goldcloaks, after some discussion with Davos, appear satisfied and walk some distance away...until Tyrion walks right past them. The goldcloaks then walk back to the boat. Davos immediately tries to warn them off but they walk right past Davos. Davos jangles what looks like a purse full of coin, presumably promising another bribe, and Gendry takes advantage of the distraction to retrieve his warhammer and knock out both the goldcloaks. 

L7R also gives an account of a scene where Davos is arrested by the goldcloaks, but a person with a type of red outfit appears on the scene and frees him. Tyrion is also in the scene, and after Gendry frees Davos the three try to flee in the boat. (Sort of sounds like the same scene? Not sure.)

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Kit is in Bilbao.

Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth commence (or resume, I guess, given all the leak drama).

It seems like the anonymous poster who claimed that the grotto scene on Itzurun beach would involve Jon and Davos had the right of it.

Javi says that Kit won't be filming in Barrika and will be filming in Zumaia. Javi would say that Kit is not filming in Bermeo but honestly doesn't know.

Meera spotted at Moneyglass (Winterfell set) confirms that Bran makes it back to Winterfell in Season 7, doesn't it?

Edited October 20, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

20 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Meera spotted at Moneyglass (Winterfell set) confirms that Bran makes it back to Winterfell in Season 7, doesn't it?

Absent some really strange occurrence, I would say so.

With the latest filming news, if Davos and Tyrion are in KL before it's even taken by Dany, then the Northern emissaries probably have to be at Dragonstone by midseason, unless Davos and Jon travel separately.  Related to the above, maybe the writers don't want Jon to meet Bran this season because of what he knows?

Edited October 20, 2016 by SeanC

[Eyes High]

13 minutes ago, SeanC said:

With the latest filming news, if Davos and Tyrion are in KL before it's even taken by Dany, then the Northern emissaries probably have to be at Dragonstone by midseason, unless Davos and Jon travel separately.  Related to the above, maybe the writers don't want Jon to meet Bran this season because of what he knows?

I agree that it is possible that Jon is being "kept" from Bran so that he doesn't learn about his parentage just yet.

New tweet from Javi with following info:

Confirmed in Bilbao with photographs: Tyrion, Davos, Gendry, Jon Snow, Varys, Grey Worm

99% confirmed in Bilbao, despite no photographs: Missandei, Dany

L7R confirms that the Zumaia filming will include a nighttime arrival on the beach (probably the grotto scene that needed to be shot at low tide).

Edited October 20, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

No sign of Gwendoline, interestingly, despite Brienne being indicated to be at the Dragonpit by WOTW.

[Eyes High]

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

No sign of Gwendoline, interestingly, despite Brienne being indicated to be at the Dragonpit by WOTW.

Dragonpit filming won't be for a while yet. After the Bermeo filming ends, Zumaia filming will go from October 25th to 29th. As I understand, Zumaia filming has two scenes: Team Dany's arrival at Dragonstone (requiring Missandei, Grey Worm, Varys, Tyrion, etc.) and someone arriving at night in the cave at Itzurun beach (probably requiring Jon and Davos). There could be more, but those are the two that have been reported on. Gwendoline Christie likely isn't there because she isn't needed yet.

I'm more interested in who shows up in Santiponce for the dragonpit filming. 

Hoy.es reported on the prep in Caceres. The filming in Los Barruecos (in Malpartida de Caceres) sounds like it's going to be a few different battles, with filming scheduled for November 14th to December 15th. The area chosen is the "Barrueco de Arriba," not as touristy as the better known Barrueco de Abajo. Although battles will be filmed in the area, none of them will be naval battles. GOT is preparing for 22 filming days in Malpartida de Caceres, which will include filming in Caceres City (doubling for KL?) and Trujillo Castle.

[SeanC]

6 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Dragonpit filming won't be for a while yet. After the Bermeo filming ends, Zumaia filming will go from October 25th to 29th. As I understand, Zumaia filming has two scenes: Team Dany's arrival at Dragonstone (requiring Missandei, Grey Worm, Varys, Tyrion, etc.) and someone arriving at night in the cave at Itzurun beach (probably requiring Jon and Davos). There could be more, but those are the two that have been reported on. Gwendoline Christie likely isn't there because she isn't needed yet.

What I mean is, if they're filming Davos and Jon arriving at Dragonstone, presumably after traveling south to meet Dany, where's Brienne, if she came with them?  Either (a) she's waiting on their ship for some reason or (b) she didn't come down with them.

[Eyes High]

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

What I mean is, if they're filming Davos and Jon arriving at Dragonstone, presumably after traveling south to meet Dany, where's Brienne, if she came with them?  Either (a) she's waiting on their ship for some reason or (b) she didn't come down with them.

Good question. I would be surprised if Brienne accompanied Jon and Davos south. Davos is obviously going as Jon's advisor, but why would Sansa need to send Brienne? As her emissary? Why would she need an emissary if Jon's going himself? Brienne is Sansa's sworn sword, not Jon's. Unless there's some specific mission with which Sansa entrusts Brienne (as she did with the Blackfish), it makes no sense for Sansa to send Brienne along with Jon.

Of course, all those same questions apply if Brienne comes south later in the season and shows up at the dragonpit scene. Why would Sansa send her?

[Wouter]

On 19-10-2016 at 2:18 PM, Eyes High said:

It seems like pretty much everyone in book fan circles hates Jon/Dany, not just Jonsa shippers.

Why would that be the case? It's telegraphed in the books that there will be a Jon/Dany union. There may be a vocal groups of fans that hate the idea, but "pretty much everyone" is an unsupported statement, IMO.

2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

 

Of course, all those same questions apply if Brienne comes south later in the season and shows up at the dragonpit scene. Why would Sansa send her?

One possibility: to send a message that she doesn't want to entrust to a maester/a raven? Like, for example, the news that Bran has returned?

[amandawoods]

Is Bran going to keep the news about Jon to himself?  

[SeanC]

21 minutes ago, Wouter said:

Why would that be the case? It's telegraphed in the books that there will be a Jon/Dany union. There may be a vocal groups of fans that hate the idea, but "pretty much everyone" is an unsupported statement, IMO.

'Telegraphed' is perhaps overstating it, but it's certainly a theory.  It's not universally disliked, by any means (I have no problem with it), but there's a pretty strong pushback among people who think it's too cliche (there's also a contingent of Jon's fanbase that borderline fetishizes his heretofore lack of involvement with anything south of Winterfell's south gate as a sign of his virtue).

Quote

One possibility: to send a message that she doesn't want to entrust to a maester/a raven? Like, for example, the news that Bran has returned?

Apropos of nothing, that's still possibly the dumbest plot justification the show has ever offered for anything:  how is a rider less subject to the risk of intercept than a random bird that people would have no idea is even carrying a message?  The reverse is true, if anything.

Edited October 20, 2016 by SeanC

[YaddaYadda]

I don't see Bran revealing anything about Jon until Jon is back home. LF is still in Winterfell as far as we know, and I think Bran will have the good sense to not say anything. 

[Minneapple]

I'm not a fan of Jon/Dany as a coupling. Mostly because I would like some family feels with them. Dany's family situation growing up was crappy to say the least and I think it'd be nice for her to find a family member who would at least not be a total ass. And while Jon does have family who love him, it would also be nice for him to discover his Targaryen side. Without, you know, that incest thing the Targs do.

I can't say I'd be shocked at the pairing though. That's the other reason I'm lukewarm to it.

[Wouter]

17 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Apropos of nothing, that's still possibly the dumbest plot justification the show has ever offered for anything:  how is a rider less subject to the risk of intercept than a random bird that people would have no idea is even carrying a message?  The reverse is true, if anything.

Sending a raven means trusting the maester, if nothing else. Something which a very cautious character may not want to do, especially if the maester served your enemies before. And this goes not only for the maester who sends the bird, but also for the one on the receiving end.

Brienne is able to defend herself, and if she only has the message in her head nobody would be any wiser if she were intercepted.

 

Something else about the possible leaks: Dany burning the Tarly males. Since those are sworn to the Tyrells, they ought to have been on Dany's side. So, either the leaker was fabricating this and messed up on this one, or the Tarly turned their cloak earlier. The latter would be consistent with the Tyrells ending up defeated, and it would also produce a dramatic arc for Samwell if the leak is true. His relationship to Dany after that could be interesting, considering he hated his father but loved his brother (in the books, anyway).

[OhOkayWhat]

33 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Apropos of nothing, that's still possibly the dumbest plot justification the show has ever offered for anything:  how is a rider less subject to the risk of intercept than a random bird that people would have no idea is even carrying a message?  The reverse is true, if anything.

A human messenger can decide to destroy the message if she/he needs it. A bird cannot. And a messenger without a message becomes a traveler.

[SeanC]

4 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

A human messenger can decide to destroy the message if she/he needs it. A bird cannot. And a messenger without a message becomes a traveler.

How would a bird messenger ever be intercepted?  Is Ramsay ordering his men to kill every raven-sized bird flying across the breadth of the North?

Edited October 20, 2016 by SeanC

[OhOkayWhat]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

How would a bird messenger ever be intercepted?  Is Ramsay ordering his men to kill every raven-sized bird flying across the breadth of the North?

My comment is complementary to Wouter comment:

2 hours ago, Wouter said:

Sending a raven means trusting the maester, if nothing else. Something which a very cautious character may not want to do, especially if the maester served your enemies before. And this goes not only for the maester who sends the bird, but also for the one on the receiving end.

If you send a human messenger you avoid that and also you have a human taking decisions about the message if intercepted. And we do not know exactly how raven-message-system works in this fiction, therefore maybe it is possible intercept that bird. And yes, it is possible that Ramsay can order that.

Edited October 20, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[SeanC]

6 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

And we do not know exactly how raven-message-system works in this fiction, therefore maybe it is possible intercept that bird. And yes, it is possible that Ramsay can order that.

We do know:  they release the bird and it flies to whatever location it's supposed to go to.  There's no reason to think it would fly anywhere near Ramsay's men, or that they'd have any clue to shoot it down (assuming they even could), as opposed to all the other birds in the sky.

[OhOkayWhat]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

We do know:  they release the bird and it flies to whatever location it's supposed to go to.  There's no reason to think it would fly anywhere near Ramsay's men, or that they'd have any clue to shoot it down (assuming they even could), as opposed to all the other birds in the sky.

We do not know how exactly the birds go where they need to go: is magic involved? are they trained? can they be tricked to be able to catch them?

And again, Wouter made a great point. Sansa will not send the message herself. And it made me to think in the next point: if we are talking about Sansa sending Brienne we must remember that the writer is not the character: even if it is a mistake (and we gave reasons why it is possible it makes sense to decide that and it is not a mistake) it is very possible Sansa makes a mistake about the best way to send a message. She does not know exactly how it works.

Edited October 20, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[SeanC]

3 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

And again, Wouter made a great point. Sansa will not send the message herself. And it made me to think in the next point: if we are talking about Sansa sending Brienne we must remember that the writer is not the character: even if it is a mistake (and we gave reasons why it is possible it makes sense to decide that and it is not a mistake) it is very possible Sansa makes a mistake about the best way to send a message. She does not know exactly how it works.

It can't just be Sansa's mistake, because nobody else questions it.

[OhOkayWhat]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

It can't just be Sansa's mistake, because nobody else questions it.

Only Sansa and Brienne knew about the way the message was sent when Sansa decided how to send it. And why we should think Brienne knows more about those birds than Sansa?

Edited October 20, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[WearyTraveler]

I can't remember which book/chapter, but there is one where someone explains how the raven system works: they raise ravens at a specific rookery, then someone takes the raven somewhere else by foot/horse in a cage.  When released, the raven flies back to the place where it was born and "raised".  The rookeries have cages specifically for every major castle they communicate with.  Now, this poses some problems, if, for example, someone runs out of ravens from a castle to which they want to send a message.

Also, there's another chapter where Catelyn (IIRC) speaks about the dangers of sending ravens, particularly during wartime.  She says it can be easily shot down by the arrow of a soldier/rebel/sellsword just to be eaten, or because soldiers know ravens carry messages and they might want to read them. There was also a chapter where someone shoots down all the ravens leaving a specific castle, so that no messages can reach the other side. 

But sending a human messenger is risky too.  The person could be captured and tortured by the other side, attacked by wolves in the Riverlands, get lost at sea... Doubling down might just be a good idea.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what reason they give for Brienne going south

[anamika]

This discussion about ravens and messengers reminds me of Python's discussion on unladen swallows :)

But it looks like Jon is confirmed in Dragon Stone and Jon/Dany are going to meet! Woohoo!

9 hours ago, SeanC said:

'Telegraphed' is perhaps overstating it, but it's certainly a theory.  It's not universally disliked, by any means (I have no problem with it), but there's a pretty strong pushback among people who think it's too cliche

I am genuinely surprised by the reaction to Jon/Dany. It's been set up and they are fire and ice and all that. By the third book, I was sure that Jon/Dany was where GRRM was heading, but then GRRM's original outline came out and I remember re-reading the Jon-Arya chapters with a new perspective and was like

I went from Jon/Dany to Jon/Arya lol. But more recent comments from GRRM about Arya's age issues (Due to lack of 5 yr gap) with regards to things like romance has made Jon/Dany more likely. And with all the possible Jon/Dany/Tyrion interactions this season, it's possible we may get some version of the Jon/Arya/Tyrion love triangle with Tyrion having unrequited feelings for Dany.

9 hours ago, SeanC said:

there's also a contingent of Jon's fanbase that borderline fetishizes his heretofore lack of involvement with anything south of Winterfell's south gate as a sign of his virtue.

There's also a contingent of Jon fans who hate Dany and would absolutely hate it if he kneels before her or submits to her etc. I am looking forward to Jon's interaction with the more interesting Essos gang. Him trying to get allies is definitely a better story than him sitting in Winterfell getting played by Sansa and LF. I will miss his interaction with Tormund though. I like their friendship. If the spoilers are true, there's very little Tormund this season and he's been send to Eastwatch by the Sea.

So the next thing that needs to be confirmed is the 'Arya gets to WF' spoiler. Bran/Meera in WF will certainly be interesting. Bran is the true Lord of Winterfell. Will we get Sansa's reaction to Bran's awesome Warg powers or will that also be ignored in favor of more drama? How will LF react to Bran? 

Edited October 21, 2016 by anamika

[SeanC]

4 hours ago, anamika said:

Bran/Meera in WF will certainly be interesting. Bran is the true Lord of Winterfell. Will we get Sansa's reaction to Bran's awesome Warg powers or will that also be ignored in favor of more drama? How will LF react to Bran? 

I will say, while I'm still really unclear how Bran is going to fit into the political plots, it can only be good for Isaac as an actor to end up in Winterfell.  He's barely interacted with any other major characters since Season 1, and even though more stuff happened in Bran's plot in Season 6 than in several preceding years, it didn't really lead to any notable opportunities for him to show his chops.  His nonverbal acting in the scene with young Hodor's death was pretty good, but otherwise he was pretty much Mr. Watches The Exposition.  He didn't even get any space to react to everybody getting slaughtered in 605.

Edited October 21, 2016 by SeanC

[anamika]

Other than some good reunion scenes with Arya and Sansa, I don't think the show will give Bran anything significant to do next season other than watch exposition.

But once he gets to Winterfell, he would be the new Lord of Winterfell. LF cannot use the 'motherless bastard, born in the south' stuff against him with Sansa. And it does seem that Bran gets there rather early. So why would Sansa plot against Bran/Arya? And if she does not, then what's happening with the Sansa/LF plot this season.

If Arya does go to WF and butts heads with Sansa over LF, it more or less confirms my suspicions that Sansa never goes North in the books. This whole Sansa-LF-Arya drama can just as well happen in the Vale in the books, with Arya possibly heading to the Riverlands first before heading North.  Since the Hound is also down south, near Sansa, that's where Sansa's story will conclude. The show merely took Sansa north so that Sophie Turner would not have to sit out a season like Isaac.

Also, the KITN and his trusty advisor, possibly preparing to meet the Mother of Dragons:

http://watchersonthewall.com/jon-snow-spotted-filming-major-characters/

Edited October 21, 2016 by anamika

[YaddaYadda]

I've kind of been wondering how Mel would re-enter the plot since she was told to go south, and now it sort of makes some sense that Jon & Co might bump into her either on their way down to Dragonstone/KL or on their way back to Winterfell.

[anamika]

Quote

Los Siete Reinos brings us a few more details from yesterday’s filming, which involved Tyrion, Davos and Gendry escaping two Gold Cloaks. Apparently, Davos does not attempt to bribe them with gold but with crabs that the smuggler promises are “aphrodisiac”. Of course he does. And of course it does not work, so Gendry has to whack them with his new warhammer, which we now know is marked by the House Baratheon stag sigil. If there was any doubt that Gendry had forged it himself, there is not anymore. Furthermore, Los Siete Reinos has learnt this episode is the fifth of the season, a few before the finale, and it is directed by Matt Shakman.

http://watchersonthewall.com/jon-snow-spotted-filming-major-characters/#comment-729587

Not sure if this pushes back the episode in which Jon goes south...

Also Gendry seems to be taking up the Baratheon sigil bringing house Baratheon back into play.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

http://watchersonthewall.com/jon-snow-spotted-filming-major-characters/#comment-729587

Not sure if this pushes back the episode in which Jon goes south...

7x05 is the Tyrion/Gendry/Davos stuff. The Jon/Davos scenes could be from another episode.

Director count is as follows:

7x01: Jeremy Podeswa

7x02: Jeremy Podeswa

7x03: ?

7x04: ?

7x05: Matt Shakman

7x06: ?

7x07: ?

I'm not sure whether the "lone" episode will be 7x03 or 7x07, so I'm not sure whether Matt Shakman's other episode is 7x04 or 7x06. It's also possible, of course, that Matt Shakman, the sole GOT directing newbie of the bunch, has the"lone" episode, with Alan Taylor and Mark Mylod getting two-episode chunks for 7x03/7x04 and 7x06/7x07.

El Correo updated their batch of photos and now there are pictures of Missandei's costume. It's a sort of long-sleeved black coat cut away at the waist over a black leather shirt and black leather pants, as well as the black shoulderpad armour that crisscrosses over her chest. No more crop tops.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Eyes High

[anamika]

http://www.elcorreo.com/fotos/bizkaia/201610/21/juego-tronos-rueda-juan-203712237175-mm.html?edition=bizkaia

Woah!! Missandei has got some new attire! All black. Now I am even more curious to see how Dany is dressed.

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

I'm not sure whether the "lone" episode will be 7x03 or 7x07, so I'm not sure whether Matt Shakman's other episode is 7x04 or 7x06. It's also possible, of course, that Matt Shakman, the sole GOT directing newbie of the bunch, has the"lone" episode, with Alan Taylor and Mark Mylod getting two-episode chunks for 7x03/7x04 and 7x06/7x07.

I wish they had let us know which director was directing which episode like last time. Would help us put a timeline on what is happening when. If I had to guess, I would say that veteran Alan Taylor will get the finale.

Edited October 21, 2016 by anamika

[Eyes High]

5 minutes ago, anamika said:

http://www.elcorreo.com/fotos/bizkaia/201610/21/juego-tronos-rueda-juan-203712237175-mm.html?edition=bizkaia

Woah!! Missandei has got some new attire! All black. Now I am even more curious to see how Dany is dressed.

I wish they had let us know which director was directing which episode like last time. Would help us put a timeline on what is happening when. If I had to guess, I would say that veteran Alan Taylor will get the finale.

Missandei looks boss. Tyrion's costume was all black, too. Judging from her dresses towards the end of Season 6, I'm guessing Dany will be wearing black (or at least a dark grey) as well. Not quite sure why they're keeping red out of Team Dany's colour scheme, unless it's to avoid visual confusion with the Lannister crew. 

I'm guessing they concealed the director:episode correspondence to confuse fans. Not a bad idea, given the explosion of very spoilery photos that seems to be going on right now with the Spain filming.

I'm seeing rumours pop up that Sophie will show up in Spain for filming within a month, although I don't know if they're based on anything other than an assumption that if Brienne is at the dragonpit, Sansa must be there as well.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Not sure if this pushes back the episode in which Jon goes south...

As already noted above, this is just Tyrion/Davos.  In fact, I think we can make some rough assumptions based on this information.

I would say this put Jon's arrival at Dragonstone at 704 at the latest, since Jon meeting Dany will be a huge deal, and an episode unto itself, not something that immediately leads into Davos and Tyrion going on a secret mission.

So I'd say Jon departs Winterfell in 703 at the latest.