All Episodes Talk: What Brand Would You Smoke If Your Husband Turned Out To Be Gay?

[Bastet]

Having just finished season two, I am making my way back through the series from the beginning, and I figured we needed a thread for discussion that spans episodes rather than being specific to any one of them - story arcs, character development, etc.

Here be potential spoilers for anything aired as of present day.

A random observation: In the first episode, Frankie is chowing down on the seafood platter along with everyone else, but in subsequent episodes she is vegetarian -- in the third episode the retirement home director says they offer vegetarian meals and she asks if it's that obvious ("it was the shoes"), she asks for a veggie burrito from Del Taco, Jacob made something like seven vegetable dishes when he cooked dinner for her, etc. On network TV, I'd chalk this up to one of the many inconsistencies between pilot and series, but Netflix ordered the show on spec, so you'd think the characterization would have been more established up front (and, really, could the Frankie as presented from minute one have been anything other than a vegetarian?).  But there's also a season two episode where Grace tells Frankie to hand her the leftover chicken salad from the fridge, and since Grace barely eats - let alone something with mayonnaise - it seems unlikely she'd have prepared it.

A more substantive one (perhaps): I looked it up, and Brooklyn Decker had a child in 2015, so I'm assuming Mallory's reduced role in season two was because of that -- I guess that's why the character is so much less developed in season two as in season one?  Because early on, there's really something made of the differences between Mallory and Brianna in terms of their parents, especially Grace, there's the storyline with Coyote, etc. and then in season two she's just gestating off-screen for the most part.  I can't say I'm particularly intrigued by her, but it's rather glaring and I hope she's further developed in season three.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Bastet

[Clanstarling]

I'm doing the same thing, and I've also been noticing some of the differences in characterization. I breezed by the whole vegetarian thing, but now that you mention it, Frankie also goes for fish in the season 1 episode when Guy brings home a bag of clams. I have known some vegetarians who make exceptions for fish, and don't always call themselves pescatarians. Now that you've brought it up, it seems strange to have her go for fish, be called a vegetarian, and not have at least a throw-a-way line to explain it.

I don't remember the chicken salad scene - did they show the salad? There are some recipes that don't use mayo, but it still seems like an odd choice for Grace.

I was struck by how different Mallory was in season 2. She had quite an edge to her in season 1 she didn't seem to have in season 2. Her character has always been underwhelming for me - when it comes to the sisters Brianna always steals the show.

Edited May 28, 2016 by clanstarling

[zxy556575]

I'm curious about the demographics for the show -- do younger people enjoy it?

IMDB breaks down their ratings by age. The sample size is small for viewers under 18, but viewers who rated the show highest are females under 18 (8.7) and females 45+ (8.6). Which duh, I guess. Nobody's pushing this as anything other than a female-centric show.

It is interesting that younger males enjoy it more than older ones. See themselves negatively reflected, perhaps?  ;)

An overall rating of 8.2 puts it in the top 10% of TV series.

Edited May 28, 2016 by lordonia

[Clanstarling]

Perhaps the young males are less uncomfortable about homosexuality? Although, the mister (an older male) also doesn't care for the show, and he's definitely not uncomfortable with homosexuality. I think he's mostly uncomfortable with the emotional content. One other contributing factor for older males is that for the Vietnam generation, Jane Fonda was not looked on with much fondness and the grudge probably persists.

[zxy556575]

On 5/28/2016 at 1:39 PM, clanstarling said:

One other contributing factor for older males is that for the Vietnam generation, Jane Fonda was not looked on with much fondness and the grudge probably persists.

OMG, that's true! The 3 Vietnam vets I'm friends with hate Jane to this day, nevermind her apologies or any amends she's tried to make.

Edited May 30, 2016 by lordonia

[Bastet]

Quote

Why is Mallory angry and huffy most of the time?  Did I miss a reason for this?

She seems to be the least-developed of the four kids (I guess spending season two on bed rest will do that), but in season one she was kind of positioned as the Bud of her family.  She's the one they rely on, and isn't really afforded her turn as the designated basket case.

Plus, she's got a husband and two young kids at home (plus two more on the way), which would be reason enough for me, but I think narratively it's that she's chafing under the expectations of being the normal one in a family that's spiraling into the unusual.

[JBC344]

Yeah I think Brooklyn Decker's real life pregnancy may have sidelined her this season.  Then when they finally got around to giving her anything it just seemed rushed and kind of sandwiched in.

[Wings]

Mallory will have a juicy story line next season.  They set up the notion that her husband may be cheating. 

I hope they are able to make Robert and Sol a believable couple.  We need to see something lovable with Robert. 

[Clanstarling]

I may be in the minority, but Sol's the one I have trouble with, not Robert (at least in their relationship). Unlike Frankie's (mostly) endearing flower child attitudes, Sol's just leaves me cold and embarrassed for him. It's hard to imagine him as a successful lawyer. Of course, I hate mischigas, as Sol put it, and Frankie's least endearing moments for me are when she's publicly making an embarrassment of herself. 

But I do agree that Robert and Sol don't seem to mesh particularly well as a couple. Grace and Frankie make a better couple than they do.

[Wings]

I agree with you clanstarling.  I have a problem with Sol too, for the same reasons.  

He shakes his head so much that I thought the actor may be in the early stages of Parkinson's.  It is an affect he has adopted for the character and it makes him appear feeble. 

I do love this show and it is only 2 seasons in.  If they are reading any feedback maybe they will work to make these men more compelling.  Or perhaps they want to keep them unlikable for what they did to the leads.   

[Wings]

On 5/27/2016 at 10:33 PM, Bastet said:

But there's also a season two episode where Grace tells Frankie to hand her the leftover chicken salad from the fridge, and since Grace barely eats - let alone something with mayonnaise - it seems unlikely she'd have prepared it.

We have to believe it was put there by someone else.  It was a good vehicle for her to cheat and emotionally eat with something so beguine as chicken salad.  I chuckled.   

On 5/27/2016 at 10:33 PM, Bastet said:

A random observation: In the first episode, Frankie is chowing down on the seafood platter along with everyone else, but in subsequent episodes she is vegetarian -

I think it is safe to say Frankie goes all over the map with her nutrition trip.  She enjoys her junk food, certainly. 

Edited May 30, 2016 by wings707

[Bastet]

There was discussion in an episode thread about Bud's need to put the brakes on everyone's level of dependence on him, and I find Bud very interesting in that regard - exploding with his fantastic "what's my deal?" rant to Coyote, but then saying he likes being the one on which the whole family relies when Coyote tells him he doesn't always have to be That Guy - and hope the writers will build on that as things progress.  I think we've seen more and more as the series goes on the load he's bearing, and figure the issue pretty much has to be raised again even though he's a secondary character.  I look forward to it, as by the end of season two he's edging in on Brianna as my favorite character other than Grace and Frankie.

[Wings]

On 5/27/2016 at 10:33 PM, Bastet said:

But there's also a season two episode where Grace tells Frankie to hand her the leftover chicken salad from the fridge, and since Grace barely eats - let alone something with mayonnaise - it seems unlikely she'd have prepared it.

I am watching this series again and have a different take on the chicken salad.  Grace is doing a very low carb diet; chicken salad is allowed.  You are allowed oil, mayo and butter included.  No carbs and fat is necessary for our bodies.  No shocker there that she eats it.   I go on low carb to lose weight so I am very familiar.  

[JBC344]

Or maybe chicken salad is just her weakness and it is something that she allows herself to indulge in.  I don't take the whole "Grace never eats" so literally.  I'm sure she is controlled about what she eats but I wouldn't read so much into her eating chicken salad. 

[Bastet]

I wasn't reading anything into Grace eating chicken salad (back when I first brought this up), I was wondering whether the presence of chicken salad in the fridge was another instance where Frankie the vegetarian was eating meat.  The easy answer is no, it's Grace's, not Frankie's, so it's probably not, it's just that chicken salad didn't strike me as a particularly Grace thing to eat, plus it looked homemade rather than from a deli, so it gave me that moment of pause that maybe Frankie had made it.

I think that leaves us only with Frankie eating seafood in the first episode, so I can just guess that the writers hadn't yet decided to make her a vegetarian, and I think the original point of my observation was that it strikes me as funny because Frankie as written from jump is SO going to be a vegetarian.

[Wings]

On 6/22/2016 at 0:04 PM, JBC344 said:

Or maybe chicken salad is just her weakness and it is something that she allows herself to indulge in.  I don't take the whole "Grace never eats" so literally.  I'm sure she is controlled about what she eats but I wouldn't read so much into her eating chicken salad. 

I don't at all.  Someone mentioned that and since I just watched this series now,  I am discussing every crumb that is mentioned!  Season 3 is a long way off, sigh.    The gist is that she is a very controlled eater and watches her weight very carefully. I get it. 

Edited June 24, 2016 by wings707

[Clanstarling]

3 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I don't at all.  Someone mentioned that and since I just watched this series now,  I am discussing every crumb that is mentioned!  Season 3 is a long way off, sigh.    The gist is that she is a very controlled eater and watches her weight very carefully. I get it. 

I know, right? I'm looking forward to the next season.

[Wings]

I don't think they are even taping it yet.  If they were someone would mention that in entertainment news.  

I just found out that Martin Sheen believes OJ is innocent!  Another reason to hate him.  I am glad he plays such an unappealing character.  

I anticipate Sol and Robert will split at the end season 3.  They will buy a new house together before that happens. I hate that stuffy, prim house so looking forward to a new set.  That may be the reason for me thinking they will move.  

Mallory (?) will find out that her husband has been cheating.  Any other ideas?

The entire show is about the women's relationship so I don't see anyone moving out to be with a man. 

[Wings]

29 minutes ago, clanstarling said:

I know, right? I'm looking forward to the next season.

[JBC344]

They are actually filming season 3 as I type this.  Jane and Lily have mentioned it while doing press for season 2.

[Wings]

Excellent!

[chitowngirl]

I just rewatched the whole thing. "The Coup" really was a thing of beauty, especially with Brianna going through the jewelry throughout.

[Clanstarling]

22 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

I just rewatched the whole thing. "The Coup" really was a thing of beauty, especially with Brianna going through the jewelry throughout.

I did too. Choked up quite a bit at the one before, and loved "The Coup" as much as I did last time, maybe even more. Looking forward to tomorrow.

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, chitowngirl said:

I just rewatched the whole thing. "The Coup" really was a thing of beauty, especially with Brianna going through the jewelry throughout.

I did a re-watch over the past couple of months, too, and loved it -- in fact, in the case of The Party and The Coup, I loved them even more than I did the first time around.  I always found both episodes great, but this time around I was particularly moved by how nuanced The Party is.  Everyone has conflicting feelings, even Babe (she's firm in her choice and at peace with her life, but she's also sad that it has come to this).  And, oh my goddess, the penultimate scene in The Coup, when Grace and Frankie tell everyone off got me even more fired up this time; the cat was looking at me with that tilted head, as if to ask, "What are we fist pumping about?"  I love every word of those final minutes.

[chitowngirl]

I appreciated the fact that there was a hiccup in Robert and Sol's relationship in Season 2, that it wasn't just: we'll separate from our marriages of over 40 years and live happily ever after together. Life is never that black and white, but a lot of shades of grey.

[Wings]

This is a good interview with Jane and Frankie.  They are very much like the roles they play!  Cute.  Loved Jane taking over from Savannah when she stumbled trying to mention their business.  Grown up Savannah.

[alphacat]

Note: potential spoilers.

 

Over the past few weeks, I watched all three seasons and have mixed feelings about this show. I really like the relationship between Grace and Frankie and the idea of the show. Frankie is unevenly written, IMO and alternates between being warm/quirky/fun and childish/irritating/difficult - this latter just seems out of character. I know it's supposed to be comedic, but at times it crosses the line for me. Grace seems more believable as a character, as I think her choices, etc. seem to fit her personality.  I'm so glad to see her trying to loosen up a bit and am sad that all of her efforts to keep things on track (business, home, marriage and kids) seem to be devalued by her family - though maybe they (especially Robert) are starting to realize how challenging it has been for her. It's great to see Grace and Frankie help each other deal with the changes in their lives and become true friends.

Robert and Sol are problematic, as they have no chemistry and their storyline is all over the place - the play, really? Robert is certainly not my favorite "person" but I can at least understand most of his decisions and reactions. Sol drives me crazy, though, and some of my criticisms are the same as I have about Frankie. I really think they need to get a writer who can better bridge the more laid back, free spirit aspects of Sol and Frankie with their approach to challenging situations. These are all terrific actors and have enjoyed them in other things.  Robert and Sol as a couple need some work.

I feel like all of these characters need something to do - the play was at least Robert trying something new and, while I thought the protest was ridiculous, it made sense that he would try something he enjoyed and I could see him being involved with the theater as an ongoing thing. Sol and gardening didn't make sense since he didn't seem to enjoy it - having him volunteer legal services might be better. I wish that Grace and Frankie would each find something that didn't involve lube, vibrators and relationships with men! I understand that they want to say that older women can enjoy sex, but it would also be great to see them branch out a little more. Frankie initially had the convicts and painting classes; then she had the exhibit and was focused on that. Grace and the mentoring was a potentially good story and I enjoyed seeing her get excited about running a business. It was fun when they went out to the bar - not everything has to be a big story arc - or they could do a book club or try some new hobbies or take a class or volunteer, even if these things sometimes happen off-screen. These characters are smart, capable, curious people - it would be nice if they were also well-rounded. When everything turns to focusing so much on romantic relationships (Robert and Sol; Mallory and Mitch; Bud and Allison; Brianna and Barry; Frankie and Jacob), I usually check out of a show. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by alphacat

[tribeca]

I made the mistake of watching all of season three in a weekend.    I loved this show in the past then kind of forgot about it.  

Its funny that I don’t find Sol believable as a lawyer since that is probably thr actors most famous role.  Sometimes he seems just so childlike.  

Glad Robert was able to retire when he wanted to.  Sad Sol was kind of forced into.  I totally understand their friend saying he dreamed of being retired.  Not just because I hate my job or that I don’t think it will ever happen.  Watching my dad aunts and uncles finally retire and not getting to do things the dreamed of makes me sad.  It’s like they worked all their lives and now they have time to do things it’s not things they enjoy. 

    Frankie and Grace friendship is my favorite part of the show followed by the four adult children.    Mallory needs something more to her character though. 

[Sesquipedalia]

After watching Season 3, I rewatched the whole series again from the beginning but fast forwarded through any scene that didn't have Grace or Frankie in it. It was great!

[Wings]

I only have 4 more episodes in season 4!  shit  I will finish them today because I have to.  Hopefully more will have done this by tomorrow.  There aren't even enough episode threads to talk about them so I will do that here.  

This is a fabulous season.

[Bastet]

4 minutes ago, Wings said:

There aren't even enough episode threads to talk about them so I will do that here.  

Just create threads for the ones you've watched and want to discuss, as I did.

[Wings]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Just create threads for the ones you've watched and want to discuss, as I did.

Yeah, I know I can do  that, I guess I am lazy.  

Edited January 21, 2018 by Wings

[Wings]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Just create threads for the ones you've watched and want to discuss, as I did.

I know, just don;t want to put out the effort.  <big asshole grin>

[Kanena]

Not sure I like the fact that season 4 ended with  Bud and Coyote moving on with lives (they both deserve it but I have a feeling it means seeing less of them in season 5) while Mallory and Brianna are becoming closer. The girls never seemed as interesting to me and never seemed like sisters while Bud and Coyote have always been a side story that is fun to watch. They play close brothers really well and their quirks and mannerisms match like real siblings tend to do. I hate to see less of them when Coyote moves away and Bud's story will be boring baby and wedding stuff. 

[Sesquipedalia]

Jane Fonda spoiled the ending of Season 4 in an interview. So Grace and Frankie lose their beautiful beach house and get put in a home? That's so depressing I don't even want to finish the season now.

[Delphi]

17 hours ago, Sesquipedalia said:

Jane Fonda spoiled the ending of Season 4 in an interview. So Grace and Frankie lose their beautiful beach house and get put in a home? That's so depressing I don't even want to finish the season now.

It is very depressing, and in fact it ends depressing,  but you should soldier through.   While sad its a very empowering ending,  and I'm relatively sure it will all work out next season. 

[ahisma]

On 1/20/2018 at 7:23 PM, Kanena said:

They play close brothers really well and their quirks and mannerisms match like real siblings tend to do.

Two of my favorite scenes this season were when they were like their mom: both Frankie and Coyote naming all the orangutans in the San Diego Zoo when one was escaped, and both Frankie and Bud singing to themselves when they were nervous, when she was out lost with the baby. 

(I will miss Coyote and Coyote&Bud time so much, too.)