S10.E28: Recap: Live Final Performances / S10.E29: Live Finale, Part 2

[bluepiano]

3 hours ago, Nedsdag said:

On one hand, I should be ecstatic that a female coach won. On the other hand, I felt that the manipulation to get there was over the top.

Issues of a feminist breakthrough aside, it wdisappointing to me that for the third time in a row, the winner seemed to have been predetermined even before the blind auditions were finished. (or soon after). It felt like the fix was in for Alisan when even the coach of a different team was repeatedly declaring her the winner. (Thanks Adam. I wonder how that made members of your own team feel.)

Edited May 26, 2016 by bluepiano

[TheGreenKnight]

4 hours ago, anonymiss said:

I don't think the female coach "manipulation" made any difference because Christina has been saying that for years to no avail. Alisan was better vocally than anyone Christina has had and arguably than anyone else this season. This galvanized Christina and her normally scattered fanbase to organize and power vote for the first time. (I've seen it.) Christina also utilized influential celebrity contacts and Alisan has some minor celebrity from being Curly Sue and may've had some influential contacts pulling for her, too. (One of her best friends is Adam Lambert who has his own network of contacts and fans.)

I don't think that's true, but I definitely don't think the win was rigged in any sense. The manipulation is normal for this show. Jordan and Josh (and I think Sawyer, too) were similarly pimped.

[bluepiano]

8 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

The manipulation is normal for this show. Jordan and Josh (and I think Sawyer, too) were similarly pimped.

That's the point I was trying to make. For the third time in a row it seemed that the producers were pushing one particular contestant. "Rigged" is probably too strong a word, but producer manipulation does affect the outcome. I wish that TPTB would provide a level playing field and let the audience decide on their favorites without any "help."

Edited May 26, 2016 by bluepiano

[Jal]

Even if it was supposedly rigged, Alisan has, hands down, one of the most precise and captivating voices I've heard on the show in all its seasons. I'm completely fine with her winning.

[Dodginblue]

9 minutes ago, bluepiano said:

Issues of a feminist breakthrough aside, it wdisappointing to me that for the third time in a row, the winner seemed to have been predetermined even before the blind auditions were finished. (or soon after). It felt like the fix was in for Alisan when even the coach of a different team was repeatedly declaring her the winner. (Thanks Adam. I wonder how that made members of your own team feel.)

 

2 minutes ago, bluepiano said:

That's the point I was trying to make. For the third time in a row it seemed that the producers were pushing on specific contestant. "Rigged" is probably too strong a word, but producer manipulation does affect the outcome. I wish that TPTB would provide a level playing field and let the audience decide on their favorites without any "help."

I've only been watching this show since the Tessane Chin season and I think that everyone who's won since I've been watching has been talented and whether they were my own special favorite or not I wasn't surprised by the winner.  It's not as if someone who could barely carry a tune has won the show or something.  I think it's like any reality show, there's a narrative that develops around particular singers and that's what gets out there to get people interested and supportive of the show by watching and voting and buying the songs. 

But then I think this show is about making money for the network and what happens with any of the contestants is kind of beside the point for the people behind the scenes calling the shots.  

P.S. Kudos to Adam Wakefield for not singing a gospel song or hymn in the finale.  It's not that I mind that kind of music, it's just what comes to mind when I think of audience manipulation.

[Sammich]

11 hours ago, Dodginblue said:

 

I've only been watching this show since the Tessane Chin season and I think that everyone who's won since I've been watching has been talented and whether they were my own special favorite or not I wasn't surprised by the winner.  It's not as if someone who could barely carry a tune has won the show or something.  I think it's like any reality show, there's a narrative that develops around particular singers and that's what gets out there to get people interested and supportive of the show by watching and voting and buying the songs. 

But then I think this show is about making money for the network and what happens with any of the contestants is kind of beside the point for the people behind the scenes calling the shots.  

P.S. Kudos to Adam Wakefield for not singing a gospel song or hymn in the finale.  It's not that I mind that kind of music, it's just what comes to mind when I think of audience manipulation.

I want to especially comment on the part I bolded.  I mentioned to my hubby that Adam could have sung a gospel or hymn in the finale, but didn't.  Actually, none of the top four did it this season.  I have no problem with a gospel or hymn being sung on the show in moderation or one time, but these type of songs do tend to do extremely well in iTunes downloads. 

[Noreaster]

I never really agreed with the gospel/hymn as a vote manipulation thing.  Those contestants who performed gospels/hymns had church as a heavy influence, with many of these contestants younger and less experienced so they have less in their life to draw upon other than church. Definitely in at least some of the cases (based on various interviews), the contestants pushed for the songs themselves and/or had them on the list that they submit to the coaches/producers. If these performances get a lot of votes, that speaks more to the demographics that vote (people who can relate to these songs) than anything else.  

Regarding Christina's win as a female coach, I'm just happy that she got recognized.  She is a good coach who has truly invested in and cared about her teams over the seasons.  Her coaching style is not my favorite, but she "deserved" a win just as much as anyone else and I'm happy that she finally got one.  Whether the show was really pushing for it or not, I don't know.  It just seemed to me like one of the narratives they wanted to tell this season.  I would say, optics-wise, it can only be a good thing to have some diversity whether that's the coaches or contestants or whoever.  

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Voice Drags Itself Across The Finish Line

Just look at the excited faces of the finalists! Two of the four of them can't wait to crawl back into their hotel beds and forget this ever happened.

[saber5055]

Owen? ... Owen? ... Bueller? *crickets*

[viajero]

All season long I've had this feeling that Hannah Huston reminded me of somebody.  I finally figured out who.  She looks quite a bit like actress Hannah New.  They even have a few similar mannerisms.  New is probably best known to US viewers for playing Eleanor Guthrie on the Starz TV series Black Sails (though I was already familiar with her previous work on Spanish TV).   

[ae2]

If singing a gospel song is going to help me get more votes, you better believe I'm going there. It's a competition, not a charity. I expect the competitors to do everything they can within the rules in order to win.

[Kendall]

More than a ban on country, rock, R&B or pop, if The Voice banned the "pandering of America" through gospel/inspirational music, their ratings would fall through the floor. Immediately.

If The Voice even intimated that people who have a religious background or wanted to sing a song that meant something to a family member that inferred religion, wouldn't be allowed to do so. But, at the same time, every tyke that comes through and always wanted to be like Dolly, Whitney or Celine could do so freely, the show cease to exist by the end of the season.

The Voice knows that they have an audience, and a significant part of their audience, that likes gospel/inspirational music and trust, if they could find one "Amy Grant" they wouldn't encourage her to sing anything but gospel music. And, after she filled their coffers throughout her season, they'd find a few more for the subsequent seasons.

Prior to Carrie Underwood, country wasn't a major player on American Idol, but once that audience was recognized as viable and profitable, they couldn't find enough country singers to put on the show.

It's not pandering, it's business.

It's the same reason why they never have legitimate R&B singers on these shows anymore. They don't believe they will make enough money off of them.

Now, this is purely anecdotal from what I've read or heard from black/R&B viewers, but the reason why they don't invest a lot in these shows through voting or even consistent viewership is because they don't believe that potentially viable R&B singers are ever allowed on these shows. The people placed in those slots are either way too old, way too young/green, not really that great of a singer and simply people that have no chance of winning, so why even hope?

But, you better believe if these types of shows thought that they could make a lot of money off an "urban" audience, they'd have legit R&B singers six and seven deep. Singers that couldn't knock each other out and pretty much what The Voice does with country singers. There is never a shortage of viable country or pop singers.

It's business. Gospel music is legit business and makes money for The Voice.

[viajero]

I agree with Kendall that the show caters to its audience, both in the types of singers and the songs that are covered.  But its not just a business decision by the show runners.  The coaches and contestants also take cues from what has been successful in getting votes during previous seasons and try to replicate that success.  It becomes a self-reinforcing pattern as potential contestants who see that they don't fit in with what has worked on the show don't even bother trying out, which in turn means that the potential audience that might prefer those types of contestants don't bother tuning in.

There was an article about a year or so ago that delved in to the details of the ratings of each season since The Voice first came on the air.  I can't find a link to the article now, but from what I remember, the author pointed to a very significant shift in the demographics and geographical location of viewers between Season 1 and more recent seasons. The average age of Voice viewers increased from 30-something in Season 1 to over 50 (and has continued to increase since then).  Furthermore, the ratings became much stronger in middle America, while not so much on the coasts or in major urban areas. 

Can you imagine a final 4 in any recent season that consists of two lesbians and two people of color, which is what we ended up with in Season 1?  A season with only one country singer in the live rounds?  Or that the show would be won by black R&B singers two seasons in succession?

Personally I blame Blake's huge popularity for a lot of this.  He brought in much of this new audience, but in doing so, changed the nature of the show in such a way that it alienated some of the original audience.  I would also argue that it made The Voice even less relevant to the current music scene, outside of country anyway.  But Burnett and company are hardly going to complain since they continue raking in the money.

[Noreaster]

Here are some interviews with Alisan Porter and Adam Wakefield:

http://build.aol.com/video/5747415ee4b0e4c041da297e/

http://parade.com/480054/paulettecohn/the-voice-winner-team-christinas-alisan-porter-on-her-amazing-win/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

http://parade.com/480262/paulettecohn/the-voice-season-10-runner-up-adam-wakefields-final-interview/

[Dodginblue]

20 minutes ago, viajero said:

I agree with Kendall that the show caters to its audience, both in the types of singers and the songs that are covered.  But its not just a business decision by the show runners.  The coaches and contestants also take cues from what has been successful in getting votes during previous seasons and try to replicate that success.  It becomes a self-reinforcing pattern as potential contestants who see that they don't fit in with what has worked on the show don't even bother trying out, which in turn means that the potential audience that might prefer those types of contestants don't bother tuning in.

There was an article about a year or so ago that delved in to the details of the ratings of each season since The Voice first came on the air.  I can't find a link to the article now, but from what I remember, the author pointed to a very significant shift in the demographics and geographical location of viewers between Season 1 and more recent seasons. The average age of Voice viewers increased from 30-something in Season 1 to over 50 (and has continued to increase since then).  Furthermore, the ratings became much stronger in middle America, while not so much on the coasts or in major urban areas. 

Can you imagine a final 4 in any recent season that consists of two lesbians and two people of color, which is what we ended up with in Season 1?  A season with only one country singer in the live rounds?  Or that the show would be won by black R&B singers two seasons in succession?

Personally I blame Blake's huge popularity for a lot of this.  He brought in much of this new audience, but in doing so, changed the nature of the show in such a way that it alienated some of the original audience.  I would also argue that it made The Voice even less relevant to the current music scene, outside of country anyway.  But Burnett and company are hardly going to complain since they continue raking in the money.

Interesting post.  I am not surprised that the audience skews older and more "traditional" in its tastes.  But I don't necessarily put that on Blake.  I think there are plenty of people, young and old and in-between, living in urban / coastal areas who like country music.  I put the demographics down to how younger people consume entertainment product these days and also how anything that's too mainstream isn't going to hold their attention for all that long.  The Voice was a novelty at first, not being able to see the contestants, etc., but after that wears off it's just another talent competition.   And it requires a commitment of time, several weeks where you have to tune in to keep up with what's going on.  I just think that format fits an older, maybe more rural / small town type of person than a younger person or someone living in a bigger city where there's lots of entertainment choices outside the living room.  

I remember being (much) younger and the equivalent on TV at the time was a show called Star Search, which I remember watching maybe the first season or parts of the first one or two seasons and then I had other stuff to do, school and friends and whatever crappy job i had at the time.   I sampled enough of it to get what it was about and then I moved on to whatever else I thought was interesting at the time.

[anonymiss]

21 hours ago, bluepiano said:

That's the point I was trying to make. For the third time in a row it seemed that the producers were pushing one particular contestant. "Rigged" is probably too strong a word, but producer manipulation does affect the outcome. I wish that TPTB would provide a level playing field and let the audience decide on their favorites without any "help."

I would add they did that every season starting with Javier in Season 1. I didn't love him and never thought his voice was anything amazing yet that's all I ever heard about him each episode.

What you said is certainly the way it should be but that's never the way it is for voting competitions, not just on this show.

[TheGreenKnight]

I loved Javier, but yeah, he was the frontrunner from the beginning. And Cassadee had a huge advantage coming into the show.

[Kendall]

Well, I had Javier's first record sitting on my shelf when I saw him walk out on the stage for the blind audition and I made no effort to really pay attention to the comings and goings afterwards. I thought the show would get pulled off the air once enough people recognized him.

Which season was Frenchie and Tarralyn Ramsey, both famous participants and one a winner of another show? The first or the second? I couldn't believe that they weren't a little more discreet with their ringers.

[ToxicUnicorn]

In the end, I'm very happy for Alisan and Christina.  Alisan has the pipes and is a deserving winner.  Her Blue Bayou audition easily makes my short list of favorite auditions, and she herself might be my favorite winner of all seasons.  Let me think - wait a minute, I can hardly remember any of them, so yes, yes she is.

It was really nice to see Alisan and Christina screaming in joy at each other and jumping up and down.  It was so spontaneous and real.  I think Christina was genuinely surprised, and genuinely happy for Alisan.  It was not all about Christina.  That kind of selflessness is all I really want out of a coach at that moment.  

I would have put Hannah second.  Of all of them, she was the most unique and has a lot of potential.  I genuinely think Pharrell did her a disservice with that original song.  (That song was awful.)

This is the first time I've agreed with the final outcome out of all 10 seasons, and one of the very few that had a final group where I liked them all.

[Noreaster]

1 hour ago, Kendall said:

Well, I had Javier's first record sitting on my shelf when I saw him walk out on the stage for the blind audition and I made no effort to really pay attention to the comings and goings afterwards. I thought the show would get pulled off the air once enough people recognized him.

Which season was Frenchie and Tarralyn Ramsey, both famous participants and one a winner of another show? The first or the second? I couldn't believe that they weren't a little more discreet with their ringers.

Those contestants were probably season 1 since I don't recognize their names and I've been watching since season 2.  

Early on, this show was mainly about professionals getting a second chance.  Season 2 definitely, and there were a lot of pros in seasons 3-5.  I followed the TWoP boards at the time, and the word "ringer" only started to get thrown around in season 4 with Judith Hill.  Judith who (if I remember correctly) actually had less success than the season 2-3 professionals since she never had a solo career or record deal (she was primarily a background singer and would have been Michael Jackson's duet partner on his tour if he didn't pass away). Coincidentally, season 4 was also when there were a lot more country contestants so maybe this had to do with newer viewers coming to the show who preferred amateurs over professionals. 

Edited May 27, 2016 by Noreaster

[Noreaster]

18 hours ago, Dodginblue said:

Interesting post.  I am not surprised that the audience skews older and more "traditional" in its tastes.  But I don't necessarily put that on Blake.  I think there are plenty of people, young and old and in-between, living in urban / coastal areas who like country music.  I put the demographics down to how younger people consume entertainment product these days and also how anything that's too mainstream isn't going to hold their attention for all that long.  The Voice was a novelty at first, not being able to see the contestants, etc., but after that wears off it's just another talent competition.   And it requires a commitment of time, several weeks where you have to tune in to keep up with what's going on.  I just think that format fits an older, maybe more rural / small town type of person than a younger person or someone living in a bigger city where there's lots of entertainment choices outside the living room.  

I remember being (much) younger and the equivalent on TV at the time was a show called Star Search, which I remember watching maybe the first season or parts of the first one or two seasons and then I had other stuff to do, school and friends and whatever crappy job i had at the time.   I sampled enough of it to get what it was about and then I moved on to whatever else I thought was interesting at the time.

Oh, I think there are definitely regional differences in music.  I live in a major metropolitan area in the Northeast and there is very little country music on the radio (I think only one station while we have multiple stations for pop, R&B, urban, latino, classic rock/oldies).  When I travel to other parts of the country (the South, the Midwest), I find a lot more country radio stations and a decent amount of pop and Christian music but much less in the other categories.  

I agree though that the demographic shift in viewership is probably not due to Blake.  Well, not entirely anyway.  The producers are the ones who decide on the direction of the show, how they cast each season, what narratives to push. They're also heavily involved in song selection (despite the show making it seem like the contestants and coaches are making all the decisions).  But I think, along the lines of what you're saying, people's lifestyles impact the way they watch TV.  The people more likely to stick with live competition shows are those who are older and/or living in areas with fewer entertainment options.  And then you have the hard-core fans who are just aging along with the show.  

Edited May 27, 2016 by Noreaster

[Kromm]

Glad Alisan won.  Can't believe Adam came in second - Hannah and Laith were so far superior and more interesting than yet another WGWG.

I loved the Sia song.  Maybe a very obvious answer, but did Sia wear the black/blonde hair and giant bow as some sort of throwback to Melanie Martinez (S3)?  Or was that Sia's thing, and Melanie appropriated it?  

Sia wears that stuff constantly. The Bowtie might have been a rarer thing, but the half and half wig has been her standard for a while (it used to be all blonde but she changed it up last year I think).

[Kromm]

Who cares about Blake's opinion. The two worst winners of this show were from his team (Craig, that guy in season 2). Maybe his separation from Miranda lessened his fanbase? If so, good.

And, let's be honest, what coach wins has been the only thing that's ever mattered on this show. None of these contestants (past, present, or future) will go on to do anything that's notable to anyone, no matter which one wins.

Hmm. It's not Blake's opinion that's the issue I think. It's that getting caught on camera rolling his eyes at the result either suggests shenanigans, or that he's a bad sport. Neither possibility is something the show really wants to explore, since Blake is kind of their King.

[InfiniteMystery]

There are lots of hints at shenanigans, but I'll take them to the grassy knoll thread if there is one.

[Dots And Stripes]

I'm glad Christina won. I've said it before but her craziness makes for great tv. For that reason I'm keeping an open mind about Miley, although she may just be fun to root against.

I'm not quite sure why the producers think telegraphing the outcome for weeks is a good idea. That said, I did think Adam provided some strong competition at the end. Number 1 on itunes and the power of Team Blake, I definitely could have seen the ending going either way. 

It would be really sad to think a female coach could not win this show. I think it will help the show going forward to have broken that trend. If artists started to think they would have absolutely no chance of winning with a female coach that could effect how the choose in the blinds. Artists may still see strategic value in Blake or Adam but some parity feels like a good thing for the overall competition.

[Kendall]

But has it really been about a female coach not winning or a young, white male singer that did win? Hasn't The Voice had to endure the WGWG phenomenon also? If Christina or Gwen never kept or had those guys, then is it really on them? I mean Gwen did give up Craig Wayne Boyd, so that's on her, but other than that, I don't know.

[Noreaster]

19 hours ago, Kendall said:

But has it really been about a female coach not winning or a young, white male singer that did win? Hasn't The Voice had to endure the WGWG phenomenon also? If Christina or Gwen never kept or had those guys, then is it really on them? I mean Gwen did give up Craig Wayne Boyd, so that's on her, but other than that, I don't know.

No, Christina and Gwen have brought pretty diverse contestants to the live shows so it's not really about that.  And the WGWG phenomenon didn't really happen on The Voice. The string of white male winners (seasons 6-9) has been pretty diverse. Different ages (Josh and Craig were older, Sawyer and Jordan were young), different genres (soul, country, folk, pop/Christian).  Not all of them played guitar and even when they did, it wasn't a major focus.  Prior to season 6, none of the winners were white males. 

Though maybe to your point, Christina's teams have been heavy on a couple of groups that don't typically fare well on The Voice.  Young/inexperienced pop singers (professionals tend to do better) and black R&B singers (no black contestants, with the exception of biracial Tessanne, have finished better than 4th since the format shifted entirely to public voting).  

[Noreaster]

Interview with Laith Al-Saadi:

http://www.mlive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2016/06/the_voice_finalist_laith_al-sa_1.html

[viajero]

18 hours ago, Noreaster said:

Interview with Laith Al-Saadi:

http://www.mlive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2016/06/the_voice_finalist_laith_al-sa_1.html

Interesting that Laith says that he didn't want to win because he didn't want to be tied down by the record deal.

[Noreaster]

Yeah, I wonder if the contracts were always this onerous. If this is a more recent phenomenon, it could explain the general decline in quality over the seasons (as working musicians might find The Voice contract unappealing).  

Joshua Davis said similar things recently about not wanting to win:

http://localspins.com/joshua-davis-offers-advice-laith-al-saadi-performs-top-8-voice-week/

[Kendall]

It's going to be tough for anyone, show or not to get a deal with a major label that isn't a 360 deal. Record companies just don't have the ability to put out that kind of money upfront for an unknown artist like they used to. The previous types of deals weren't great, but there are a lot of artists that couldn't have made it without the structure of a record company around them. Yeah, they should've reaped more money than a lot of them did, but they still wouldn't have made any if they hadn't signed.

Laith doesn't want to be a star, he just wants steady work and income, so no, a 360 deal wouldn't work out for him. But, a Bryan probably wants to be famous, so he'd be more likely to sign one.

[Noreaster]

That makes sense.  I just googled 360 deals and boy, there is a ton of stuff out there. It seems like they've been around for the past decade and it's the industry's way of trying to make money in a challenging environment. And it can be good from the artists' perspective.  From the Adam Wakefield interview that I linked to earlier, he thinks it would be beneficial to have a record label handle the business side of things instead of doing everything himself.

Along the same lines, in another interview, Joshua Davis talked about the impact of The Voice on his career.  He has been able to hire a team to handle the business stuff and he's doing more shows in other regions.  

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/entertainment/2016/03/15/joshua-davis-the-voice-interview/81652654/ 

Edited June 8, 2016 by Noreaster

[Michel]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 7:37 AM, Sammich said:

I don't see where Blake is rolling his eyes.  He has had a contestant either win or be in the top 2 every season, so I don't think his divorce from Miranda, or his relationship with Gwen, is affecting his popularity.

Not season five.  That was Tessanne from Adam's team and Jacquie from Christina's team who were in the top two then.