S03.E02: Cold Murdering Bastards

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Anna tries to save the ring after Abe's cover is blown; and Benedict Arnold seeks Washington's help against charges of treason. Meanwhile, Townsend sends a signal.

[ketose]

So everyone knows Abe is a spy now? I assume this means Hewlett is dead soon, because it wouldn't make any sense otherwise. Hewlett getting killed would certainly go a long way toward shutting Woodhull Sr. the hell up.

At this point, Rogers is a freaking genius compared to the rest of them. He's almost as smart as the average viewer of the show.

[LittleIggy]

Rogers is now my favorites character. He is so funny. 

I hate seeing Andre moping about Peggy. I'm surprised he doesn't have "John 'n Peggy" in a heart written in his little sketchbook. 

I wanted to grab that cat o' nine tails and lash Simcoe in the face.

[Yolapukka]

I'm mystified at this point as to how Abe constitutes any sort of asset to the Patriots. He should just disappear from British-held territory along with his wife, child and some cabbage seeds. Who doesn't know or strongly suspect him of espionage at this point? Fortunately most who have found out his secret have come on side one way or another.

 

So Andre doesn't want to go over old conversations, except with Peggy I guess. 

 

Rogers is even less believable than Abe as a spy. Maybe pop-eyed arrogant buffoon is a handy cover for stealth action. No one will notice the sneakiness  as he shouts and gesticulates.

[Hanahope]

So now Rogers is a patriot?  Or is he just acting the part because he still wants revenge?

Seriously, how is Abe going to be in any way effective as a spy if he has to bring along his 2-3 year old son everywhere?

Are Simcoe and his men really at odds with the British, or just Hewlett's men?

[blackwing]

4 hours ago, Hanahope said:

So now Rogers is a patriot?  Or is he just acting the part because he still wants revenge?

Seriously, how is Abe going to be in any way effective as a spy if he has to bring along his 2-3 year old son everywhere?

Are Simcoe and his men really at odds with the British, or just Hewlett's men?

Everyone seemingly knows that Abe is a spy.  I'm assuming this isn't really what happened in history, otherwise he would likely have been hung and his name wouldn't be remembered in history.

I am completely at a loss as to what is going on between Hewlett and Simcoe.  Hewlett's men still wear the red coats.  But Simcoe and his men wear blue coats.  Washington and Talmadge and the rest of the Americans wear blue coats.  Whose side is Simcoe on now?  Why was Simcoe whipping Hewlett's men, why would Hewlett ride up and then just allow it?

[HalcyonDays]

Quote

I am completely at a loss as to what is going on between Hewlett and Simcoe.  Hewlett's men still wear the red coats.  But Simcoe and his men wear blue coats.  Washington and Talmadge and the rest of the Americans wear blue coats.  Whose side is Simcoe on now?  Why was Simcoe whipping Hewlett's men, why would Hewlett ride up and then just allow it?

Kinda wished I watched a marathon of season 2, because I'm a bit fuzzy too. Simcoe's men wear green coats, not blue. I kinda see Hewlett's as the regular Army/Military units for the English, while Simcoe's smaller band is like a Seal Team 6 or Special Forces. Same side, but Hewlett's group does the day to day, whilst Simcoe's band gets sent on special covert missions. I could be wrong though. It's just how I see it.

They hate each other because of past power struggles, Hewlett kicking Simcoe out of his original position and Simcoe falsely accusing Hewlett and having him arrested for treason/murder. There is more, but I don't quite remember the details.

Rodgers playing the "Woe is me, innocent" was hilarious, but how easy would it have been to setup Townsend Sr and catch him in the act of Spy. People were way too trusting and naive back then (I know, it's a TV show, but there was a modicum of honour that people abided by that they do not do today). And I wish Woodhull would give Rodgers a beatdown too.

Oh Abe, always with the rash decisions that mess you up. What'd you think you were going to do with your kid? And Woodhull Sr. I just want to beat the crap out of him for betraying his son/family. What on earth did he think he was going to accomplish? Great actor, terrible character.

So does Anna actually have feelings for Hewett, or is she trying to distract him?

Simcoe, you evil man. TBH, I didn't mind him beating the crap out of that Red Coat. Because the Red Coats were the instigators and beat up and whipped that poor kid for no reason. Sorry, but on Simcoe's side with this one.

Shallow Comment of the Episode - Major Andre is so gorgeous. Stop that, sir. That is all.

They are very much departing from the actual historical fact, just for drama purposes. It's still entertaining though. And rereading this post, apparently I am wishing violence on a lot of people. I must be channeling some Simcoe somehow.... :')

[OakGoblinFly]

Yea for the return of Townsend.

I know the show needs to ramp up the drama - but really, NO ONE knew about the Culper ring members for decades - but to have everyone and their uncle know about Able and the spy ring is just stupid.  You could have created that tension by just letting daddy Woodhall and Rogers know the truth about Abe.

Still, so far this season seems loades better than the ending of season two (which was good for the first half).

[ChipBach]

What happened to this weeks recap??  I look forward to reading the awesome snark..

[Kabota]

On May 5, 2016 at 8:03 AM, OakGoblinFly said:

I know the show needs to ramp up the drama - but really, NO ONE knew about the Culper ring members for decades - but to have everyone and their uncle know about Able and the spy ring is just stupid.  You could have created that tension by just letting daddy Woodhall and Rogers know the truth about Abe.

 

I'm having the hardest time suspending disbelief here -- it's just ridiculous how "not secret" the ring is.  

I know that a lot of fans are really into the Hewlett/Anna romance, but to me it just seems so extraneous and contrived. On a positive note, I've really enjoyed what we see in NYC with Townshend and Rivington, am very interested in where Philomena will fit into all this, and am happy that they're developing Arnold's defection with a certain degree of historical accuracy. On the other hand, while the show's pace is quicker and has been praised by some, I'm hoping that the disparate stories will come together quickly because for me, these first two episodes have been a hot mess.

eta: In the interest of fairness, both episodes improved a good bit upon being watched consecutively without commercials.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Kabota
update

[Arkay]

        I enjoy this show and was happy it was renewed this season. I think most of the acting is great, I love the period details, and I am especially eager to see the Benedict Arnold story play out. I hope they are historically accurate, because I want to see the scene where Peggy wigs out when Washington is having breakfast at their home as the betrayal is discovered. 

        The one part I truly dislike is the Anna Strong storyline. I can't see anything about her that would compel three men to so adore her (four, I suppose, counting her husband). However, the Hewlett & Strong romance just feels so off. Personally I see zero chemistry between them and it is hard to imagine a colonial spy falling for an English officer under any circumstances.

[ganesh]

I don't know much of the details of Arnold, but I like how he essentially seems to be going traitor over furniture. It's just so petty. Yeah, dude, they're totally just refusing to pay you. Not that the shoestring government is basically worthless.

I don't like Abe's floppy hipster hat.

Quote

Hewlett getting killed would certainly go a long way toward shutting Woodhull Sr. the hell up.

I'd switch that happily. Hewlett has too much honor to turn a blind eye to Abe, but on the other hand, I think he could have persuaded otherwise like before. I don't get why they don't have some go-to cover stories. 

Quote

Whose side is Simcoe on now?

I thought Simcoe was the new head of the Queen's Ranger. It seems from the show, that the operate outside of the normal command structure, but Simcoe still is an officer of recognized rank. 

I like Hewlett just because I've always liked the actor. But I think it's a good choice for the show overall. You kind of want at least one likeable ish redcoat. I liked his backstory and how he's just kind of there. I think Anna kind of likes him, but America is always going to come first.

Edited May 6, 2016 by ganesh

[HalcyonDays]

On 2016-05-05 at 2:07 PM, ChipBach said:

What happened to this weeks recap??  I look forward to reading the awesome snark..

Not sure, but I think with the upgrade and all of little issues with said upgrade, it may have gotten lost in the shuffle.

Quote

I like Hewlett just because I've always liked the actor. But I think it's a good choice for the show overall. You kind of want at least one likeable ish redcoat. I liked his backstory and how he's just kind of there. I think Anna kind of likes him, but America is always going to come first.

I like Hewett too as a character, and like Burn Gorman himself. You do need a few "good" Redcoats to balance out the rest. Even Woodhull Sr, though I want to smack him upside the head, is a good character to have, because there were citizens who did benefit richly from doing business with England, or who didn't want to rock the boat, so stayed on the "Red" side. But I hate that he sold out his son. Terrible father.

Quote

The one part I truly dislike is the Anna Strong storyline.

I don't like that they are not doing anything with Anna. I mean, at this point, she just stands around looking scared or weepy or whatever. She needs to "Spy'.

[SharonH58]

Good episode.  I am confused about Robert Rodgers's plan but he is hysterical.  I think him and Abe make a good pair, and Abe sure needs some help, even with cabbages!  I hate Simcoe but am not ready for him to die yet,  he is a good evil character.  I don't know where the Abe/Hewlett story is going.  I like Hewlett and Anna's relationship but I cannot see him being too forgiving if he finds out about her spying.  Cannot wait for Monday!

[pasdetrois]

Great fun to see Colonial Williamsburg VA in some of the scenes.

Benedict and Peggy going at it on an uncomfortable little settee - really? Peggy's voluminous skirts in the way and that heavy wig jammed up against the settee. Why weren't they in bed? If she's such a distinguished lady, wouldn't they be afraid of someone walking into the room?

I can't get into Rodgers because of the actor's hammy acting. I'm fast forwarding through his scenes.

[Haleth]

There was one scene where Hewlett and Anna were talking in the drawing room, surrounded by numerous candles and a roaring fire.  The setting was lovely, the lighting gorgeous.

[OakGoblinFly]

On 5/6/2016 at 9:46 PM, ganesh said:

I don't know much of the details of Arnold, but I like how he essentially seems to be going traitor over furniture. It's just so petty. Yeah, dude, they're totally just refusing to pay you. Not that the shoestring government is basically worthless.

For the most part, the characterization of Benedict Arnold is the one thing the show gets right; he was bitter about not being paid or having his contributions to the war effort acknowledged; he felt “entitled” to the biggest house and the best war contraband as is “due;” he was entirely smitten with Peggy Shippen and was motivated to “provide” for her; and he had a huge ego.  I only hope that the show indicates that Peggy was an active participant in Arnold turning traitor; stoking his bitterness and setting up the meetings with André.

 

I do NOT like how the show makes it seem like Peggy is turning on Arnold because of her tu wuv for André (while it was true that she had a relationship with him, it is also true that she tossed him over once the Colonial Forces re-captured Philadelphia).

14 hours ago, Haleth said:

There was one scene where Hewlett and Anna were talking in the drawing room, surrounded by numerous candles and a roaring fire.  The setting was lovely, the lighting gorgeous.

 

For all its faults, the show does a beautiful job with costumes, set design, and cinematography.

[SharonH58]

Went to Shirley plantation and I asked the tour guide about Turn being filmed there.  She said they did some filming inside the house (they provided their own props due to the first floor being full of antiques) and on the grounds.  Said they were all very nice.  She is going to add Turn to her talk!  It's a beautiful place and descents still live there.

[EyewatchTV211]

On 5/9/2016 at 8:42 AM, OakGoblinFly said:

I do NOT like how the show makes it seem like Peggy is turning on Arnold because of her tu wuv for André (while it was true that she had a relationship with him, it is also true that she tossed him over once the Colonial Forces re-captured Philadelphia).

 

For all its faults, the show does a beautiful job with costumes, set design, and cinematography.

Agree with this part. I've actually read that some feel historians have made a leap in assuming that Peggy and Andre even had a romantic relationship vs. a friendly/flirtatious one. Apparently there is some evidence that he was actually more interested in another Peggy, Peggy Chew I think was her name. I haven't seen that information in many sources, so who knows. But I could see historians pushing for the Peggy Shippen thing because it makes the whole Arnold thing a little more "spicy" I guess. 

[Kabota]

1 hour ago, VMepicgrl said:

Agree with this part. I've actually read that some feel historians have made a leap in assuming that Peggy and Andre even had a romantic relationship vs. a friendly/flirtatious one. Apparently there is some evidence that he was actually more interested in another Peggy, Peggy Chew I think was her name. I haven't seen that information in many sources, so who knows. But I could see historians pushing for the Peggy Shippen thing because it makes the whole Arnold thing a little more "spicy" I guess. 

I agree with you both. I wish they would have her seem more conflicted, at the very least, but they've made Arnold into such a pushing brute, it's a hard place to go at this point, I guess. I would've preferred a Peggy motivated a bit more by political and mercenary reasons, too, rather than solely working her way back to Andre.  

[KaleyFirefly]

On 5/5/2016 at 10:42 PM, HalcyonDays said:

Shallow Comment of the Episode - Major Andre is so gorgeous. Stop that, sir. That is all.

I think John Andre and Ben Tallmadge are both hot.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 5/6/2016 at 9:15 PM, Arkay said:

  The one part I truly dislike is the Anna Strong storyline. I can't see anything about her that would compel three men to so adore her (four, I suppose, counting her husband). However, the Hewlett & Strong romance just feels so off. Personally I see zero chemistry between them and it is hard to imagine a colonial spy falling for an English officer under any circumstances.

I agree with this. I can see how Anna would recognize (and in some way respect) that Hewlett is different and less brutal than Simcoe, but I can't see her falling in love with Hewlett at all. Is she forgetting what side she's on? Is she forgetting that Hewlett would hang them all as spies if they were caught, and she would hang too? I just don't believe it. I dislike this storyline because I think the historical Anna Strong, who was a part of the Culper Ring, did not act this way.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 5/8/2016 at 8:56 AM, pasdetrois said:

I can't get into Rodgers because of the actor's hammy acting. I'm fast forwarding through his scenes.

Actually, Roger Roberts is one of my favorite characters on the show because of his hilarious dialogue, hammy acting and he is so clearly enjoying the hell out of this role.

[HalcyonDays]

17 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

I think John Andre and Ben Tallmadge are both hot.

Agreed. Why I didn't include Tallmadge in this, I have no clue. Both are very nice to look at!