General Discussion: You Exist Here

[legaleagle53]

On 8/22/2018 at 12:40 PM, Charlesman said:

Wow, that ending would have been worse than the one for Enterprise.

And then some.  Thank God Rick Berman shot that idea down -- it was the smartest decision he ever made.  He'd have had a fan mutiny on his hands that would have made the reaction to "These Are the Voyages" look like a fan love-fest.  It's why today so many people still hate that episode and are somewhat cool regarding Discovery -- you just don't fuck with the fandom that way by insisting that what they'd spent seven years (more than 30 years, actually, since it would have called the validity of The Original Series, Next Generation, and Voyager into question as well, as Rick correctly pointed out to Ira) living right along with the characters was all in someone's head.  That's the same illogical, insulting-to-my-intelligence cop-out that St. Elsewhere took in ITS series finale (and that Dallas took during the infamous "Bobby's in the shower" episode), and I absolutely hated it for that very reason.

Edited August 24, 2018 by legaleagle53

[blueray]

On 8/22/2018 at 12:57 PM, VCRTracking said:

Ira Steven Behr Reveals How He Really Wanted ‘Star Trek: Deep Space Nine’ To End + More DS9 At STLV 2018

That ending would have been terrible! The fans would have definitely rioted if that was the ending.

 

I'm so glad that they went the way that they did. DS9 is on my list of shows with the best finale.

Edited August 23, 2018 by blueray

[VCRTracking]

[HerkyJerky]

https://variety.com/2018/tv/features/star-trek-ds9-25th-anniversary-interview-1202648047/amp/

[blueray]

Thanks for posting that. I never really thought about how different Kira is then the female characters before her.  Uhrora unfortunately is a product of the the time, she really is just a supporting character at best and doesn't usually have much to do. Crusher has episodes that she is a strong character and many where she is just the medical officer (not that there's anything wrong with that), but she is in a healing role as the article says.  Diana Tori is useless (I never disliked her, however she really serves no purpose).  Kira is the first female character in star trek that is a badass and  relatable at the same time. You get that she is broken about her past as a freedom fighter and has a dark past. You get to really care about what she believes in and see her develop as a character.

[legaleagle53]

Don't forget about Dax (especially Jadzia Dax).  That woman could hold her own with the best of them, and it's no wonder that she and Kira became best friends -- they GOT each other.

Edited November 4, 2018 by legaleagle53

[Lugal]

Kira's worldview was completely different than any previous character.  They had all grown up in the Federation, where day to day survival was guaranteed and (most) cultural differences were accepted.  Of course we had Spock, Data and to a lesser extent extent, Worf who were the outside observers of humanity, most fascinated by our ticks and quirks.  Odo and to a lesser extant Quark served that role on DS9 but they were more jaded about it.  Odo was usually annoyed at humanity and Quark was looking for ways to exploit it.

Kira was part of a terrorist cell and she was pretty unrepentant about it despite regrets over certain acts she committed, (good luck getting a character like that on the air now) because she had to fight for her survival and for her culture.  It felt real, not in the forced grimdark way that characters now do.

[friendperidot]

I really, really dislike Winn. She's a zealot, but just exactly what is she a zealot about? I think first for personal power and then very distantly second, her religion, but I just don't think she's a true believer. An early episode is on H&I right now, S1/E19, In The Hands of the Profit, when Vedek Bareil is assassinated, and I really just think she's power hungry. There may be some level of belief, but I think belief and faith are 2 different things and I never feel she has true faith. But that's just my feeling.

[readster]

8 hours ago, friendperidot said:

I really, really dislike Winn. She's a zealot, but just exactly what is she a zealot about? I think first for personal power and then very distantly second, her religion, but I just don't think she's a true believer. An early episode is on H&I right now, S1/E19, In The Hands of the Profit, when Vedek Bareil is assassinated, and I really just think she's power hungry. There may be some level of belief, but I think belief and faith are 2 different things and I never feel she has true faith. But that's just my feeling.

Oh she was power hungry and I believe that as the series went on, she just stopped trusting the Prophets. The Reckoning was the final straw when the possessed Kira completely brushed Winn off like she was nothing and focused on Sisko. At that point, I'm surprised she had any supporters left, because it wasn't like everyone from civilians to Star Fleet saw this happen. At that point I'm surprised there wasn't: "Get Rid of Winn!" movement. 

[Charlesman]

13 hours ago, readster said:

Oh she was power hungry and I believe that as the series went on, she just stopped trusting the Prophets. The Reckoning was the final straw when the possessed Kira completely brushed Winn off like she was nothing and focused on Sisko. At that point, I'm surprised she had any supporters left, because it wasn't like everyone from civilians to Star Fleet saw this happen. At that point I'm surprised there wasn't: "Get Rid of Winn!" movement. 

 

Winn never started trusting the Prophets. She was always bitter that she'd never, ever, had a vision from any of the Orbs. I think that's part of why her zealousness for power was so much greater than any love for her religion. The Prophets never made time for her--she had no time for them in return.

[friendperidot]

But, Louise Fletcher did an excellent job because I really hated Winn episodes!

[friendperidot]

I can't edit my remarks, so a new one, I still hate Kai Winn episodes and there's one tonight, but Louise Fletcher does "bitchy" so very well.

[Melgaypet]

Louise Fletcher did an excellent job, and I love Winn episodes. Kai Winn is a brilliant villain, right up there with Dukat.