S12.E09: The Sound Of Silence

[BaseOps]

Fair enough, but it goes well beyond Amelia. Meredith didn't blink when Derek told her his father was murdered, she ran from Derek's mother and had issues with 2 sisters other than Amelia (she did have a nice moment with Liz after Liz called her out).  She's never shown interest in his family at all, ever, even when he was alive. Its not about Amelia. 

 

Everyone can't get along and that's fine but she is 40 something and has 3 children who lost their father. She knows family was important to Derek and its been almost 2 years since Derek died. Its incredibly selfish to take away the children's grandmother, aunts, uncle and cousins. I'm sure she's able to suck it up for a couple of hours here and there if she chose to. 

 

I'm sure that was difficult but she sure has used that to her advantage.

 

Yes, terrible things have happened to Meredith but it doesn't give her a free pass to be awful to other people.

 

I don't totally disagree. She definitely has been increasingly cold and even rude, especially in the past two or so seasons (and especially towards Jo.) Like I said, I think I really noticed the shift somewhere after season 8. But I guess its the nature of the show that some of us just see these characters differently. I don't necessarily agree with Meredith's choices, but I understand a lot of her actions and think they make sense to me. The two big exceptions, for me, are:

 

1) Running away for an entire year after Derek died. I wish we had at least seen more of what was going on there. It had the potential to be really powerful - was she suicidal like Ellis? Was she having a breakdown? What did she do? Who did she talk to? As it stands, it was used only as a plot device and it really did a disservice to almost all of the characters.

 

 2) How she's treated Jo. I think it seems like even Ellen has struggled to understand why the writers have really ramped that up without ever giving motivation. It seemed like at one point she was softening up to Jo, and then it went right back to her either ignoring or disliking her. I'm hoping for some Meredith / Jo scenes where they discuss it a bit, but I won't hold my breath. If Alex / Jo are endgame to Shonda, she needs to stop pitting them against each other for no reason. 

 

To be objective, we never really saw any of Derek's family show up more than once when he was alive. They've never really been part of the narrative other than when Shonda could cast someone buzzy to come in for one episode. Derek and Amelia both treated each other terribly when she came to the hospital. That storyline went on for months, basically until right before he died. I guess if we heard about Derek's family more it would bug me more, but other than that initial first episode after Derek died I haven't really thought about it. Either way, I do hope to see a lighter side of Meredith as this season progresses. I liked this episode, and I'll like it more if it really leads to some change. I'd love to get some real focus on Jo / Alex for a while and have Meredith interact with other characters (also besides Amelia and Maggie.) I hope they follow through with the Callie / Jo mentoring, because they both have been lacking stories. The issue is I can't see Shonda sidelining either Amelia or Maggie for too long. So, we have April / Jackson story coming up and then a big Owen / Riggs story in episode 14. I'm struggling to see how they can give everyone anything major. 

[RedheadZombie]

Meredith's disinterest in Derek's family has never bothered me. First of all, isn't Derek at least equally responsible for his family not knowing his children? I've always felt that family was dysfunctional. Not only did Derek have little to nothing to do with his family, he never seemed to care that Meredith wanted nothing to do with them. And if Amelia and Derek's sisters were loving and supportive, why is Amelia so pathetic about needing Mer as a sister?

[kingshearte]

Yeah, there's definitely a disconnect between what we've been told (Derek was all about family and was really close to his) and what we've seen (only extremely occasional contact from any of them except Amelia — and we've never seen that last sister). So even though she was always more vocal about her lack of interest in spending time with his family, the distance and disconnect absolutely cannot be laid all at Meredith's feet. The writers seem to want to put it there, but it simply doesn't jive with what we've actually seen.

[windsprints]

Derek mentioned speaking with his family on occasion so there was a connection there. For example, when Amelia came to Seattle in season 10 Derek said he hadn't talked to her in a couple of months. When he returned from DC he told Amelia he went to see his mom. He didn't talk about them constantly but on a show where Meredith ignores the fact that she is the mother of 3 for months on end that isn't really a surprise. There were enough references for me to have the opinion that Derek would want his children to have some kind of relationship with his family; at the very least to meet them.

[Joana]

The show is generally terrible with families. It seems that in GA's universe, families only exist to make your life miserable. Yeah, a lot of people have unresolved family issues but this show is taking it too far. Arizona is like the only major character without some over the top family drama going on, but even she lost a brother. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by Joana

[BaseOps]

Derek mentioned speaking with his family on occasion so there was a connection there. For example, when Amelia came to Seattle in season 10 Derek said he hadn't talked to her in a couple of months. When he returned from DC he told Amelia he went to see his mom. He didn't talk about them constantly but on a show where Meredith ignores the fact that she is the mother of 3 for months on end that isn't really a surprise. There were enough references for me to have the opinion that Derek would want his children to have some kind of relationship with his family; at the very least to meet them.

 

I don't doubt that Derek would have wanted the kids to have a relationship with his family, I actually agree. They do live with Amelia, his sister. But like you said, the writers have often ignored the fact that Meredith even has children in her home. There are so many characters around that I can't expect the writers to be accounting for how often Meredith's children see Derek's relatives that we don't even see. I do think Shonda will try to get Tyne Daly back at some point, but otherwise I wouldn't count on them referencing Derek's family much. 

 

 

The show is generally terrible with families. It seems that in GA's universe, families only exist to make your life miserable. Yeah, a lot of people have unresolved family issues but this show is taking it too far. Arizona is like the only major character without some over the top family drama going on, but even she lost a brother. 

 

This. A lot of these characters talk about the importance of family, but realistically that stuff just isn't shown unless it's for medical reasons or a very specific storyline. Have we even seen Sofia at all this season? I'll never forget the scene where Callie was drinking at Meredith's house last year and then Arizona showed up to crash there - where was their baby!? Derek's mother hasn't been shown since S5, and his first sister was last seen in S3. So, I can't fault Meredith for stuff that the writers just don't care to reference. 

[Joana]

This. A lot of these characters talk about the importance of family, but realistically that stuff just isn't shown unless it's for medical reasons or a very specific storyline. 

 

And whenever family members do appear, they're usually overbearing or annoying or they simply suck at life, like Callie's mother. 

 

Maybe it's better to go all Sex and the City style and pretend these people were just dropped on the face of Earth at some point with no history or background. 

[wineaux]

Meredith gets attacked by a patient. The patient has to live with the guilt of that. Mere's kids are terrified of their mother but let's all remember who the real victim is...

 

Amelia.

 

The moment she started with "Do you know how hard it was for me to see you in that trauma room?" I though, "No, she probably doesn't because she was too busy getting her broken jaw pried open and a tracheotomy!" Amelia you are cordially invited to sit. your. ass. down.

 

But yes, excellent direction by Denzel. That man has a real talent for building suspense. Every time Mere turned from treating Lou to typing on her tablet I expected him to be standing over her when she turned back around like in a horror movie. In fact the way Lou rose up from the gurney was very reminiscent of "The Walking Dead."

 

HA!  YES!!  :-)

 

Amelia can have all sorts of seats. 

 

Please....including some of the seats in the next room. 

 

 

I'll just say I thought the episode would have worked so much better without all the hype. Meredith was not in mortal danger at any point, it was soon made clear she'd be just fine physically and we barely saw any of the attack. All of it would have been alright for a regular episode (ignoring the fact she's experienced every tragedy known to a man, of course), there really was no need for the over the top hype like that. They really only did it so people would come back to the show after such a long break.

 

Yes, "it was soon made clear she'd be just fine physically and we barely saw any of the attack", however, I'm assuming that those exam/treatment rooms have all kinds of items that could be used as weapons, and the patient was bigger and much stronger than her.  Anything could have happened, and they didn't know the extent until they examined her.

 

Not seeing much of the attack, IMO, made sense to me. And, it worked...at least for me.  It added to the drama.  Did we really need to see everything?  

 

Also, the comparison to ER may be getting lost of some who frequent the forum.  The show lasted from 1994 - 2009.  Grey's started in 2005 so there was a little bit of overlap.  But some may not have watched ER *or* St. Elsewhere (remember that one?  Circa 1982....the first TV series that Denzel Washington starred in.)  My point is that eyes may be glazing over when ER episodes are mentioned or compared to.  I was a huge fan of both but I watch Grey's (and Chicago Med, and Code Black) for the entertainment and dramatic value these shows can bring to me.  

 

Lastly, I don't really worry about where Mer's kids are.  She could very well have to go on shift before the daycare opens and she has someone else bring them, right?  We see them (the doctors/interns) eat in the cafeteria sometimes but we don't always see them eat...or shower....or take the trash out.  You get my point....like in life, there are lots of things happening around us, and to people we know, that we don't have to be witness to.  That's how it is on ALL TV shows and films.  We don't get to view every aspect of a character's life because, quite frankly, they don't have enough time to do that.

[RedheadZombie]

I don't need to see the kids (especially since Zola was recast), but a quick mention would be nice when one or more parents are partying, going out of town, etc.  Since they no longer show the hospital day care, I prefer to think that Meredith has a live-in nanny.  Anything's better than kids living in an apparent twenty-four hour daycare.

[BaseOps]

Again, the biggest issue to me is the cast size. When actors are made series regulars, it should mean that they're part of the main focus of the series and stories. It doesn't seem to mean anything on this show anymore. Bailey has been ridiculously underused for years now. Callie has been sidelined for two years, Arizona all season, and Ben and Steph have never even been given real arcs (not that I'm dying to see more of those two.) Alex and Jo have been stuck in a never-ending circle of nothing for several seasons. 

 

Fewer characters would mean more time to focus on each story - it means things can be told organically, without having to skip over important events and without sidelining some actors for entire seasons. If Maggie, Amelia, and Steph weren't around we could have instead focused on Meredith and characters that already exist, like Jo or Callie or Bailey. We could have more time to focus on Jo / Alex rather than Maggie / DeLuca and Amelia / Owen (another relationship which has been a never-ending circle of nothing.) Of course we need fresh blood every now and then, it keeps things fresh - but not every doctor that comes through the doors needs to be made a regular. As it stands, they're giving stories to Meredith, Amelia, Owen, Maggie, Riggs, April, Jackson and using other characters in supporting roles in each of those stories (Arizona as April's best friend, Alex as Meredith's). Every other character gets sporadic single-episode arcs or is inserted somehow into those main stories. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by BaseOps

[izabella]

Alex and Jo have been stuck in a never-ending circle of nothing for several seasons.

 

It has been several seasons, and with all the time jumps, that means Alex and Jo have been dating for years in show time.  Years.  They do not feel like a couple that has been dating for years, and even lived together.  To me, it feels like they've barely started dating and are just getting to know each other.  That could be why I'm having so much trouble believing that they are in love to the point of Alex proposing marriage.  It just does not compute for me.

[Gladrags]

In contrast, Bailey didn't seem to feel much at all. 

Maybe she's as bored with Meredith's never-ending series of crises as I am. 

[jabbi]

The cast size reminds me a lot of the SG/MW merger in S6. There's too many people and not enough screen time.

I don't think this show has much of a place for interns anymore. The early seasons revolved around the interns, but they all have grown up and grown on. I say cut the dead weight and stop with the pretend teaching BS.

I agree, it takes a lot to have bad and dramatic things happen to the same people for 12 years. It also doesn't help that Shonda is famous for her over-the-top tragedies, especially in GA. When something bad happens on Grey's, it's known to be next level trauma. There's only so much that can happen for so long.

I liked this episode. I think Karev and Mer have excellent on screen chemistry and I would love to see that evolve into a relationship. I think their chemistry is much more natural than Karev/Jo, MerDer, Crowen, or really any other relationship on the show. It doesn't seem forced to me. I don't, however, think their "my person"-ness makes any sense at all. I think the writers are trying to make it happen because they are the only originals left on the show but it really isn't happening for me. I'm actually sort of over the whole "I must have a person" thing, I hope this episode moves it more towards a village mindset.

Why is Amelia being shoved in our face so much? She's insufferable. Is something going to happen to her? Is that it? I can't figure out why she's such a big deal.

Side note: Meredith has been my very least favorite on the show until this season. I think EP is portraying lonely Mer better than the Mer who was always tangled in complicated relationships.

[Greysaddict]

The cast size reminds me a lot of the SG/MW merger in S6. There's too many people and not enough screen time.

I don't think this show has much of a place for interns anymore. The early seasons revolved around the interns, but they all have grown up and grown on. I say cut the dead weight and stop with the pretend teaching BS.

I agree with you that the cast size is very similar to S6 during the merger and the show is also in the same sort of transitional period as it was back then also. But back in S6, they were so much better at managing the cast size and giving full fledged story lines to every character.  It's not just about screen time but also meaningful story lines, of which there were plenty go around in S6*.  

 

I've said this before, but I definitely think the recent lack of focus (going back to mid S11) is not actually due to the cast size but something behind the scenes in the writers room.  Whether it is intentional or they are just in over their heads isn't totally clear.  

 

Maybe it was easier when our "core" cast were interns/residents because they could frequently be working together and with other attendings while still having it make sense, but it still seems to me like a writers problem not a cast size problem.    

 

Also, IMO, the interns are not even the problem here.  Aside from maybe DeLuca/Maggie getting a lot of focus, they seem to have the perfect balance of neccessity/screen time.  

 

*in fact, some of my most favorite episodes are from S6

Edited February 18, 2016 by Greysaddict

[windsprints]

I've said this before, but I definitely think the recent lack of focus (going back to mid S11) is not actually due to the cast size but something behind the scenes in the writers room.

 

Tony Phelan and Joan Rater were in charge and left after S10,maybe that is it.

[Greysaddict]

Tony Phelan and Joan Rater were in charge and left after S10,maybe that is it.

YEP, this is what I think the main issue is.  Add on Patrick leaving mid-contract and major contract negotiations coming up in S12 and I think this is why we are seeing such a mess of show currently. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Greysaddict

[CED9]

I have a hard time with this argument strictly because Shonda is still there and still gets the final say on everything. It isn't like she handed it over to them and is completely ignoring it or left all together like some creators/show runners/producers occasionally do.

[Greysaddict]

Well she definitely hasn't left, but she isn't as hands-on as she used to be for sure.  The impression I get (mainly from Twitter) is that she lets the writers have free reign and only steps in to "oversee" whats happening, or you know write big episodes like Derek's death.  Veering more into the "bts drama" I remember reading a lot of people thinking that Shonda herself didn't even write 11x21 but shouldered the blame because she knew any other writer would be heavy criticized.  I'll admit this is tin-foil hat-ish, but it does seem plausible.  

[Gladrags]

The cast size reminds me a lot of the SG/MW merger in S6. There's too many people and not enough screen time.

Sounds like it's time for a big tragedy to trim the cast! Not ... 

[lamadeleine]

Long time Grey's Anatomy watcher here, but since I rarely get to watch it in real time, I missed the hype surrounding this episode. However, since I have been watching this show since the beginning, I knew to expect something cray-cray for their "midseason premiere"...runaway locomotives crashing through the pit, tornadoes, serial killers...something was going down. I just got a chance to watch this episode so forgive my being late to the party. My random thoughts:

 

Geez Shonda. Can't a character come to a realization about their life without having it accompanied by some violent, traumatic act against their person? I'm no shrinking violet, but this is the gazillionth time Meredith Grey has had to endure some personal tragedy just in order to move to the next step. It has become a frustrating and very tired plot device, IMHO.

 

BUT....the episode was well done, I gotta say. The writing, directing, and most of the acting was very compelling.

 

What wasn't so compelling, you ask? A"ME"LIA. Just when I think that character can't get any more annoying, she steps up the plate and hits a grand slam. I couldn't even deal with her dramatic slow-mo slide down the wall as she watched her colleagues try to save Meredith's life. She then shows up in the hospital room and some of the first words out of her mouth.."you don't know what it was like for MEEEE watching you there..". Boo hoo, lady. No interest in her journey whatsoever.

 

edited for typos:)

Edited February 21, 2016 by lamadeleine

[Chas411]

I actually liked this episode aside from the usual Perfect Penny and A'ME'LIA overload. I thought Ellen gave a really solid and wonderful performance. I could really feel Meredith's frustration and fear. I'm still torn on the direction they're going with Meredith/Alex. I think the reason the relationship works is because they don't go there but with all the hype that seems to be building up around them I wouldn't be surprised to see them go there. I for one could see it being a huge mistake and just a more awkward version of Gizzie.

 

I hope Jo and Alex make it I really do. The departures of Yang and Sheperd seem to have steamrolled their relationship and I'd love to see them finally become more prominent again with an actual storyline.

[Essy]

I was so excited when I saw that Denzel Washington directed this. I think he is absolutely amazing!! The scene with the kids was pretty heart wrenching. I agree with the posters that say Meredith has suffered enough. What else could happen to her??

[moongirl1985]

Why did Meredith have to stay in the hospital for 6 weeks after her attack? Couldn't she have recovered at home?