Morning Joe: All Episodes Talk

[tres bien]

50 minutes ago, oakville said:

The top story today was that the Red Sox could miss the playoffs. Joe is upset & says the season is over. They are doing better than expected but other teams are winning more games.

Mika is happy with the CNN poll. Harris is ahead in all the swing states except Arizona. She is tied in Pennsylvania.

Spending the opening 5 minutes on baseball is nuts. Am I the only one who doesn't give a rat's ass and Joe's fanboy love of the Red Sox is annoying 

 

[oakville]

Joe is mad that people watch cable news channels other than MSNBC.

Joe said people are richer now with Biden because the stock market is at record levels.

Joe said Trump added more debt in 4 years than other Presidents.

Joe is happy that John McCain's son is voting for Harris.

[Kemper]

3 hours ago, oakville said:

Joe is mad that people watch cable news channels other than MSNBC.

Joe said people are richer now with Biden because the stock market is at record levels.

Joe said Trump added more debt in 4 years than other Presidents.

Joe is happy that John McCain's son is voting for Harris.

Well, Joe.  People are tired of cable pundits like you...who regurgitate the same conversations over and over. Click. People are richer now? For those who own stocks/mutual funds...yes, they are.   But a huge chunk of this country .... some middle class, a lot of the lower middle class, etc. - maybe not so much.  A large swath of the population, sadly, does not know that John McCain has a son. Nor do they care who he votes for. (Only Megan has a media profile)

Could Joe BE anymore entitled and/or out-of-touch?

 

 

[oakville]

1 hour ago, Kemper said:

Well, Joe.  People are tired of cable pundits like you...who regurgitate the same conversations over and over. Click. People are richer now? For those who own stocks/mutual funds...yes, they are.   But a huge chunk of this country .... some middle class, a lot of the lower middle class, etc. - maybe not so much.  A large swath of the population, sadly, does not know that John McCain has a son. Nor do they care who he votes for. (Only Megan has a media profile)

Could Joe BE anymore entitled and/or out-of-touch?

 

 

It's tiring to watch Joe repeat the same talking points over & over again. I am surprised that he isn't bored repeating his comments.

 

[aghst]

7 hours ago, Kemper said:

Well, Joe.  People are tired of cable pundits like you...who regurgitate the same conversations over and over. Click. People are richer now? For those who own stocks/mutual funds...yes, they are.   But a huge chunk of this country .... some middle class, a lot of the lower middle class, etc. - maybe not so much.  A large swath of the population, sadly, does not know that John McCain has a son. Nor do they care who he votes for. (Only Megan has a media profile)

Could Joe BE anymore entitled and/or out-of-touch?

 

 

But the thing is, the stock market has always been a gauge of how people were doing or felling about their finances.  They called it the wealth effect, people feeling better about money and spending more.

A majority of Americans own stock:

Quote

Gallup finds 61% of Americans reporting that they own stock, based on its April Economy and Personal Finance survey. This is up from the 56% measured in 2021 and 55% measured in 2020, and is the highest it has been since 2008.

Stock ownership averaged 62% between 2001 and 2008 -- but it fell after the 2007-2009 recession and remained at a reduced level until this year.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-owns-stock.aspx

A lot of this ownership is through 401k accounts which most people can't access freely until they're 59 or older.

By the metrics historically used to measure the state of the economy, this is a strong economy, with low unemployment, good wage growth, GPD growth -- was higher than expected 3% in the second quarter -- stock market and other measures.

It's just that inflation is the thing most people notice in day to day life and one that people complain most about.

But the inflation was due to supply chain crunch following the pandemic.  Republicans want to blame it on Biden, all the money given out during the pandemic but a lot of it was given out under Trump -- with all the fraud too.

Inflation in the last 2-3 years has been a global problem.  US fiscal spending didn't cause inflation to be high double digits in places like Turkey or certain South American countries.

In fact the US has brought down inflation faster while still having the best economic growth of the G7 countries.

While the polls in this election year show the economy is the #1 issue, with people saying the economy is on the wrong track, several polls also have a majority of people saying that their personal finances are in very good shape, but the country as a whole is doing poorly.

That is why people label it "vibe cession" because it's feelings that the economy is bad, when all the objective measures show the opposite.

In fact there was a poll in June where people said that the economy was in recession (it was not), that unemployment is high (it wasn't and by historical comparison, it's very low, at under 5% still and under 4% back in June) and that the stock market was down -- when it was in fact hitting record highs.

Newt Gingrich said in an interview that things were bad.  This was some years ago, looks like the 2016 RNC convention.  But the interviewer cited FBI stats which showed crime was down but Gingrich insisted that people feel bad.

Quote

It is worth noting that since President Obama took office, crime rates, the flow of illegal immigrants over our borders, and claims for unemployment benefits have all declined. And yet, frighteningly, when reporters started pointing that out, it didn't seem to matter. Just watch as Newt Gingrich brushed any effort to fact-check Trump's claims about the U.S. crime rate.

[BEGIN VIDEO]

ALISYN CAMEROTA: Violent crime is down. The economy is ticking up.

NEWT GINGRICH: It is not down in the biggest cities.

CAMEROTA: Violent crime, murder rate is down. It is down.

GINGRICH: Then how come it's up in Chicago and up in Baltimore and up in Washington?

CAMEROTA: There are pockets where certainly we are not tackling murder.

GINGRICH: Your national capital, your third biggest city --

CAMEROTA: But violent crime across the country is down. 

GINGRICH: The average American, I will bet you this morning, does not think crime is down, does not think they are safer.

CAMEROTA: But it is. We are safer and it is down.

GINGRICH: No, that's just your view.

CAMEROTA: It's a fact. These are the national FBI facts.

GINGRICH: But what I said is also a fact.

[END VIDEO]

OLIVER: No it isn't, no it isn't. It's only a fact that that's a feeling people have. This is a graph of the violent crime rate, it's not a fucking Rorschach test. You can't infer anything you like from it. And sure, you can cherry-pick recent upticks in some cities, but the overall trend across the country during the Obama presidency and, indeed, for the last 25 years is down. But, Newt wasn't done.

[BEGIN VIDEO]

GINGRICH: The current view is that liberals have a whole set of statistics that theoretically may be right, but it's not where human beings are.

CAMEROTA: But what you're saying is, but hold on Mr. Speaker because you're saying liberals use these numbers, they use this sort of magic math. These are the FBI statistics. They're not a liberal organization. They're a crime-fighting organization.

GINGRICH: No, but what I said is equally true. People feel more threatened.

CAMEROTA: Feel it, yes. They feel it, but the facts don't support it.

GINGRICH: As a political candidate, I'll go with how people feel and I'll let you go with the theoriticians.

[END VIDEO]

OLIVER: He just brought a feeling to a fucking fact fight. And it is worth taking just a moment to seriously consider what Gingrich was saying there, because think about it. I think we can all agree that candidates can create feelings in people. But what Gingrich is saying is that feelings are as valid as facts. So then, by the transitive property, candidates can create facts, which is terrifying, because that means someone like Donald Trump can essentially create his own reality.

 

https://www.mediamatters.org/donald-trump/john-oliver-theme-republican-convention-was-emphasizing-feelings-over-facts

So unfortunately, it's not just KellyAnne Conway trying to gaslight the public about alternative facts -- that Trump had the largest inaugural crowd.

The GOP gaslighting has worked on a broader swath of the public and we have people thinking that the economy was better under Trump.  It was NOT.

Vibe cession is about feelings and social media disinformation over facts.  It starts with lack of evidence of WMDs in the Iraq war but the Republicans blew right past looking for evidence, like they deny climate change despite the mountains of data.

Unfortunately this virus has grown.

[SeanBug]

4 hours ago, aghst said:

But the thing is, the stock market has always been a gauge of how people were doing or felling about their finances.  They called it the wealth effect, people feeling better about money and spending more.

A majority of Americans own stock:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-owns-stock.aspx

A lot of this ownership is through 401k accounts which most people can't access freely until they're 59 or older.

By the metrics historically used to measure the state of the economy, this is a strong economy, with low unemployment, good wage growth, GPD growth -- was higher than expected 3% in the second quarter -- stock market and other measures.

It's just that inflation is the thing most people notice in day to day life and one that people complain most about.

But the inflation was due to supply chain crunch following the pandemic.  Republicans want to blame it on Biden, all the money given out during the pandemic but a lot of it was given out under Trump -- with all the fraud too.

Inflation in the last 2-3 years has been a global problem.  US fiscal spending didn't cause inflation to be high double digits in places like Turkey or certain South American countries.

In fact the US has brought down inflation faster while still having the best economic growth of the G7 countries.

While the polls in this election year show the economy is the #1 issue, with people saying the economy is on the wrong track, several polls also have a majority of people saying that their personal finances are in very good shape, but the country as a whole is doing poorly.

That is why people label it "vibe cession" because it's feelings that the economy is bad, when all the objective measures show the opposite.

In fact there was a poll in June where people said that the economy was in recession (it was not), that unemployment is high (it wasn't and by historical comparison, it's very low, at under 5% still and under 4% back in June) and that the stock market was down -- when it was in fact hitting record highs.

Newt Gingrich said in an interview that things were bad.  This was some years ago, looks like the 2016 RNC convention.  But the interviewer cited FBI stats which showed crime was down but Gingrich insisted that people feel bad.

https://www.mediamatters.org/donald-trump/john-oliver-theme-republican-convention-was-emphasizing-feelings-over-facts

So unfortunately, it's not just KellyAnne Conway trying to gaslight the public about alternative facts -- that Trump had the largest inaugural crowd.

The GOP gaslighting has worked on a broader swath of the public and we have people thinking that the economy was better under Trump.  It was NOT.

Vibe cession is about feelings and social media disinformation over facts.  It starts with lack of evidence of WMDs in the Iraq war but the Republicans blew right past looking for evidence, like they deny climate change despite the mountains of data.

Unfortunately this virus has grown.

Thank you!   This was perfect. 

 

[oakville]

Mark Cuban is having a heated discussion with Andrew Ross Sorkin & Becky Quick about Harris's tax plans. She will support small businesses & increase the corporate tax rate to 33% from 28. Harris is open-minded and not an ideologue.

The hosts are asking her to conduct more interviews with the press.

Will Mika & Joe ask her to come on Morning Joe?

[SeanBug]

16 minutes ago, oakville said:

Mark Cuban is having a heated discussion with Andrew Ross Sorkin & Becky Quick about Harris's tax plans. She will support small businesses & increase the corporate tax rate to 33% from 28. Harris is open-minded and not an ideologue.

The hosts are asking her to conduct more interviews with the press.

Will Mika & Joe ask her to come on Morning Joe?

I always find it interesting that it's the press who wants her to talk to the press. 

While she's travelling around the country, giving speeches and meeting people, they whine that she isn't "sitting down" with the press so they can ask her stupid questions that we already know the answer to.

I don't hear voters asking her to sit down with the press. 

 

 

 

Edited September 5 by SeanBug

[tres bien]

Yes. And why did VP chose CNN to do any interview? How in the hell could Dana Bash ask her to answer to Trump's racist comments (good for Kamala for slapping her down). And Dana a Jewish woman. Particularly insulting 

I hope she does an interview with Rolling Stone 

Edited September 5 by tres bien

[SeanBug]

Any doubt how big an asshole Joe is?

Mika is trying to ask Matthews a question, and Joe interrupts and explains her question. 

Between shit like this, and it's been ongoing since Day 1 of their relationship, and his abortion comments yesterday that Dobbs wouldn't have been that bad if states actually listened to voters, (try living in a red state) if he was my husband he would be finding his belongings on the front lawn when he got home. 

Chris Matthews just called Reagan a liar.  Joe must not have been paying attention.  

Edited September 5 by SeanBug

[Kemper]

I wonder if Mark Cuban would come on MJ.  Has he ever been on?

[oakville]

47 minutes ago, SeanBug said:

I always find it interesting that it's the press who wants her to talk to the press. 

While she's travelling around the country, giving speeches and meeting people, they whine that she isn't "sitting down" with the press so they can ask her stupid questions that we already know the answer to.

I don't hear voters asking her to sit down with the press. 

 

 

 

I think a good journalist can ask questions to get a better understanding of her policies.

 

3 minutes ago, Kemper said:

I wonder if Mark Cuban would come on MJ.  Has he ever been on?

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Mark+Cuban+interview+on+Morning+Joe+#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:010eb13a,vid:6YtpnSrp2NI,st:0

[SeanBug]

10 minutes ago, oakville said:

I think a good journalist can ask questions to get a better understanding of her policies

A good journalist doesn't exist on Morning Joe.  Remember when Pence interrupted Harris in the debate in 2020, and she glared at him and said "Excuse me I'm speaking".  That would be the interview on Morning Joe. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXFqTGBty1w

Rachel Maddow would be the place for an in depth interview,  because she would have Harris on for a full hour.  And she would spend time preparing meaningful questions. 

And it would infuriate Joe, who thinks he's the most powerful on air personality on MSNBC. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.    His lack of intellect is no more apparent than when he isn't smart enough to realize it's time to stfu and let the guest speak.  I think most people who watch MJ just want some background noise in the morning while getting up and ready for the day. 

Do you notice Rachel is never pre-empted because tptb are terrified she's going to run her mouth and say something offensive.  Or told to take the week off as punishment for being such a horse's ass?   

 

[oakville]

Mika could conduct a Know Your Value interview with Kamala Harris.

[SeanBug]

9 minutes ago, oakville said:

Mika could conduct a Know Your Value interview with Kamala Harris.

Ten dollars says she uses Shania Twain's "Feel Like A Woman" as the intro. 

If Rachel Maddow is the Washington Post, Morning Joe is InTouch Weekly. Something you might look at but feel kinda gross afterward. 

[oakville]

Mika was happy that Liz Cheney endorsed Kamala Harris. Joe said ideology isn't important. She wore a nicely fitted navy blue dress. It's early for scarves season.

Cheney might become a contributor to MSNBC after the election. There is always room for ex-GOP's on MSNBC.

Joe started rattling off reasons not to vote for Trump.

Joe supports Madisoniam Democracy.

 

Joe is opposed to Trump assassinating political rivals with Seal Team Six.

Cheney & Joe both had 95% CLU ratings. They are true Conservatives!

[oakville]

Joe is fed up with people using Fox News talking points. They should use MSNBC talking points.

[SeanBug]

2 hours ago, oakville said:

Joe supports Madisoniam Democracy.

 

Another brave stance by Joe Scarborough.   You're a real American hero. 

What's next, Joe?  You believe Black people should be allowed to vote?  Women should be allowed to own cars and have a bank account?  

2 hours ago, oakville said:

Cheney might become a contributor to MSNBC after the election. There is always room for ex-GOP's on MSNBC.

I think Liz  Cheney is going to take Thatcher's place in Joe's heart.  She's probably #1 on his hall pass list.   She's blonde, she has connections in Washington DC, and speaks at the Reagan Library on the reg.

  

 

 

[Kemper]

I love it when Joe says "Conservative"....always in a hushed whisper.  It is sacred to him. Joe...no one cares.

[SeanBug]

I swear if we did a drinking game where we do a shot every time Joe says Reagan or conservative we'd be drunk by 7 am. 

Joe and his "happy warrior" bullshit about Reagan and the line "there you go again"  at the debate makes me want to throw something at the tv. 

The Reagan campaign "somehow" got its hands on the Carter campaign briefing book and altho one of the consultants said it should be returned immediately, the campaign did not return the papers and used them to prep Reagan. That it was investigated by the Justice Department is just one of the many facts about Reagan that Joe conveniently forgets.

When Carter brought up Reagan planning to make significant changes to Medicare and Medicaid, and these changes would hurt Americans, is when Reagan used his "there you go again" line.  Sure it came off as a great line, but in fact Reagan did cut HHS budget by 25%, which gutted a lot of programs that helped lower income people. 

Wouldn't it be nice if someone on the show pointed out Reagan's bullshit, and Joe's psychotic obsession with him?  

 

[oakville]

Joe is happy that KC won the football game.

Joe is happy that Harris raised 300M in August. They can use the money to fund a strong ground game. Joe said the ground game is important in close races.

Trump doesn't understand anything about child care.

[oakville]

Joe is outraged that a dad bought his 13-year-old an AR 15 for Christmas. This was bought after the boy made online threats. This is unbelievable.

[SeanBug]

6 minutes ago, oakville said:

Joe is outraged that a dad bought his 13-year-old an AR 15 for Christmas. This was bought after the boy made online threats. This is unbelievable.

Hopefully charging parents with murder/attempted murder in these cases will stop the insanity of buying a kid a gun. 

WTF is wrong with people. 

[oakville]

Joe read from his cell phone.

[tres bien]

Panel says the NY Economic Club is made up of smart people. Bullshit

[tres bien]

VP don't take any debate advice from Word Salad Joe

If VP plays the happy warrior they'll attack her for being unserious

[SeanBug]

17 minutes ago, tres bien said:

Panel says the NY Economic Club is made up of smart people. Bullshit

It's just some bs club made up of finance people, CEO's etc. that hosts speakers at their luncheons and dinners.  That's the entire point of the group.  

Mika's father spoke to them once but the list of speakers is just a bunch of former presidents, and other CEOs.     They actually think Trump has something of importance to say?  How smart can they be? 

 

[tres bien]

Oh and BTW Joe. Ronald Reagan wasn't running against a batshit crazy man child.

Which makes his Happy Warrior schtick even more egregious 

[SeanBug]

3 minutes ago, tres bien said:

VP don't take any debate advice from Word Salad Joe

If VP plays the happy warrior they'll attack her for being unserious

I'm pretty sure Kamala Harris will be just fine without Doucheborough's advice. And we don't need Barnicle telling her not to be too aggressive. 

She was the AG of California, Joe. And on the Senate Judiciary committee. Have you seen her grill SCOTUS nominees?  I'm pretty sure Brett Kavanaugh had to change his pants when she got done with him. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsm1GPnlqmU

Of course the debate is a different format but if they think she can't handle herself without these two morons coaching her, they've got another thing coming. 

 

[oakville]

2 minutes ago, SeanBug said:

I'm pretty sure Kamala Harris will be just fine without Doucheborough's advice. And we don't need Barnicle telling her not to be too aggressive. 

She was the AG of California, Joe. And on the Senate Judiciary committee. Have you seen her grill SCOTUS nominees?  I'm pretty sure Brett Kavanaugh had to change his pants when she got done with him. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsm1GPnlqmU

Of course the debate is a different format but if they think she can't handle herself without these two morons coaching her, they've got another thing coming. 

 

On past shows, Joe said he won all his debates against his opponents when he was running for Congress. Joe is an expert in debating. Joe's strategy is to not allow any guests with any opposing opinions on any subject.

[Lowcountry snark]

Reagan repealed federal funding for community mental health centers.  There's a direct line from that to today's school shootings, drug abuse, suicide, homelessness, etc...

Mika at the opening was terrible.  She interrupted the flow of TrumpMocking to tell the world's worst anecdote about her not having read a book before a class where she had to do a presentation on the book.  Joe looked at her and just blinked.  She killed the mood.  Bless her heart.

 

[Kemper]

Joe has always been weepy and embarrassing about Reagan; but lately he has become a cross between maudlin and insufferable. I cannot stand it. At this point maybe he does it on purpose because he knows we will pick up on it and comment. Getting "comments" is a win, I guess. 

He would probably benefit from spending a couple of days by himself, watching sports 24/7, eating ice cream, etc. He just seems ready to combust.  Meeka could have a few days of pumping KYV to her heart's content and cry reading. And looking down her nose at Sam Stein. (just me who thinks this?) 

****** I should probably have put this post in the "Hosts" section. But just now thought of it and don't know how to move it over there. Sorry. *******

Edited September 6 by Kemper

[SeanBug]

2 hours ago, Kemper said:

I should probably have put this post in the "Hosts" section. But just now thought of it and don't know how to move it over there. Sorry. ***

Hey it's about Joe's obsession with Ronald Reagan which he discusses on the show. You're fine! Host thread (IMO) is about stuff they do off air, Mika's KYV cult meetings, her IG posts, etc.  

I just saw Dick Cheney is also voting for Harris. Joe is going to be peeing his pants in excitement on Monday. First his girlfriend Liz and now her Dad. 

Can't wait to see how he spins Dick Cheney into a "true patriot",  who only lied to get us into a war and shot some guy in the face. 

USA!!  Happy Warriors! 🤮

Edited September 6 by SeanBug

[oakville]

Joe said the Democratic coalition runs from AOC to Dick Cheney.

People that worked for Trump are not endorsing him.

Mika wants George W Bush to endorse Kamala Harris.

Mika is wearing a blue scarf ! Scarf season returns to the show.

Joe said Democrats have to work harder to win the election.

 

Mika complained about the mainstream media not doing enough to expose Trump's weaknesses.

Joe is worried about Trump arresting Democrats.

Mika said she wanted to be a moderator of one of the Presidential debates. She would ask Trump tough questions.

[oakville]

Joe said Republican officials said the election was fair in 2020.

[oakville]

Mark Leibovich interviewed Liz Cheney.  She called Trump & Vance misogynistic pigs.

Joe is outraged that Trump wants to pardon the Jan 6th rioters.

[tres bien]

I love when people like Ret Admiral Steve Abbott are on

Shines a glaring light on all of Trump's generals. Cowards 

[oakville]

Joe is outraged at the mainstream media for not focusing on January 6th. The moderators should ask Trump about pardoning rioters.

[Kemper]

31 minutes ago, oakville said:

Joe said Republican officials said the election was fair in 2020.

Which ones? 🤓

[oakville]

18 minutes ago, Kemper said:

Which ones? 🤓

The SOS in Georgia & Pennsylvania.

Joe said the NY Times poll that shows Trump leading by 1 point is good for Democrats. It freaks them out and makes them work harder. Joe complained that the poll is an outlier because they interviewed too many Republicans.

Joe mocked podcasters & news bloggers who say that Trump has an inside track to win. I think he is referring to Nate Silver.

[SeanBug]

I cannot believe Mika showed that clip illustrating how at the 1980 debate, Carter pointed out what Reagan would do to HHS and public health programs. 

No wonder Joe wasn't around during this segment. 

It's right there on the tape, Joe. And you know Reagan's line was nothing but gaslighting Americans into voting against their best interests. 

Reagan's playbook was to pit white people against everyone else.  Haitians eating cats is today's version of welfare queens eating steak and driving Cadillacs. 

[SeanBug]

I love how Joe tells Harris not to listen to people on Twitter about how to behave in the debate, but then he goes on for five minutes telling her how she should behave.

So no to Twitter, yes to cable news hack. 

[tres bien]

I wish a reporter would interview Joe's opponents when he was debating them and give their side of his phenomenal debating skills 

On the other hand it really was only Joe that pushed back on Lawler's Republican abortion lies

[SeanBug]

I turned it off when Mika started reading Joe's Atlantic article about Paul McCartney. I'm not wasting my laptop battery on that clap trap. 

[Kemper]

Why on earth does Meeka always lovingly read Joe's columns. Remember The Washington Post days?

The shilling is strong with this one; full of herself, she is. What would Reagan say. 

 

Edited September 10 by Kemper

[oakville]

27 minutes ago, Kemper said:

Why on earth does Meeka always lovingly read Joe's columns. Remember The Washington Post days?

The shilling is strong with this one; full of herself, she is. What would Reagan say. 

 

There are reports that Mika used to feed him grapes while reading him Joe's columns while they were relaxing at home.

[SeanBug]

1 hour ago, oakville said:

There are reports that Mika used to feed him grapes while reading him Joe's columns while they were relaxing at home.

She feeds him grapes, she feeds us bullshit. 

I think this morning was a trade off. Mika got to interview David Rubenstein and show the Carter Reagan debate clip, aka Reagan lies his ass off while heinously smiling; but she had to agree to read that idiotic article in a lame attempt to show how cool Joe is (not). 

[millennium]

12 hours ago, SeanBug said:

I love how Joe tells Harris not to listen to people on Twitter about how to behave in the debate, but then he goes on for five minutes telling her how she should behave.

I love how every talking head on MSNBC and CNN is advising Kamala Harris on how she should debate.   Whole segments -- oh hell, whole days! -- devoted to "Kamala Harris should ..."

Do any of them actually believe she's out there in TV land taking time out of her day to get pointers from them?  Saying to her team, "Hold on, hold on ... that woman with the multicolored hair on MSNBC just said I should stay focused on the future ..."

[mispickel]

I thought it was interesting that Scarborough was not there during the Mary Trump segment.

[millennium]

I don't normally find John Hieleman very funny, but he gave me a good laugh this morning when he said of Matt Gaetz and Stephen Miller entering the spin room after the debate:  They looked like someone had just eaten their dog ...