HalcyonDays November 9, 2014 Share November 9, 2014 If anyone still cares... Sleepy Hollow - Heartless - Advance Preview Posted by Romain Ossust at Sunday, November 09, 2014 http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/11/sleepy-hollow-heartless-advance-preview.html I'm not a fan of that guy and his reviews at all. They are terrible, IMO. First, they are very pro-Katrina reviews (which is one reason I hate them - I may be biased *grin*). He gushes over her like crazy, and in doing so, is not very objective in his reviews. He absolutely drooled over last weeks episode and thought is was great, along with talking about how Katrina looked, of course! He makes major mistakes that are kind of inexcusable for a "reviewer". Spelling mistakes are one. Until this week, in every review before, he referred to Katrina as Katerina (??), and in this review, he says that: Abbie will use magic once again this week. She always seems to be very gifted in witchcraft. I'm really looking forward more magic from her. Awesome - Abbie is a witch! Where did that come from (BTW - I think at some point she and Jenny will display some powers, so this is actually good, but here in this review, it is a mistake.) I could be wrong... Katrina will prove to be very useful during the whole episode against the Succubus. She’s really at her place, helping the Witnesses IMO. When has she proven useful before? Never. However, this I am totally on board for: Abbie and Katrina will have a huge argument, over what to do with Henry, again. This argument is starting to escalate between the two of them and Ichabod is stuck in the middle with them. Please, Abbie, DO NOT BACK DOWN. God I hope she stands her ground and does NOT let herself be walked all over. I am so here for this. *gets pompoms and flags ready* Two Four Six Eight, Who do We Appreci-ate. ABBIE! 3 Link to comment
savinggrace November 9, 2014 Share November 9, 2014 If anyone still cares... Sleepy Hollow - Heartless - Advance Preview Posted by Romain Ossust at Sunday, November 09, 2014 http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/11/sleepy-hollow-heartless-advance-preview.html That synopsis actually sounds promising but I'm not going to get my hopes up too much. Link to comment
savinggrace November 9, 2014 Share November 9, 2014 Wait, so is Abbie now financially supporting Crane and Katrina? They seriously need to address the issue of Crane's employment. Now that he has some ID he should have some job options. It's getting ridiculous with poor Abbie supporting them on a cop's salary. Link to comment
Ann Mack November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 (edited) This right here from a writer of the show speaks volumes. So if your opinion isn't expressed in a form of his liking than he is automatically going to protest that you are a "hater" what is this damn man 12 years old or something?! Yet he has the audacity to comment that he likes all opinions how many different way can I shout HYPOCRITE!! These writers may potentially end up destroying this show, it seems they are hell bent on trying to incorporate Katrina into assisting the witnesses and she just DOESN'T work!! Twitter comment - I'm not good at copying the original format in tact but any way you can see what was stated. tin_nickel @tin_nickel0 2h2 hours ago .@mraven257 But silent on #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter & retweet us being dismissed as haters? We just want a return what we fell in love with.M. Raven Metzner@mraven257@tin_nickel0 I respect all opinions. I don't like haters. My apologies but there are some threads/discussions that Id rather not comment Edited November 10, 2014 by Ann Mack Link to comment
BigEasygirl November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 Hi. Delurking. I love the part about Abbie doing more magic. It didn't read like a mistake since Katrina's "contribution" is listed right under it. I don't have a lot of high hopes for this epi, so this is something at least. Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 tin_nickel @tin_nickel0 2h2 hours ago .@mraven257 But silent on #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter & retweet us being dismissed as haters? We just want a return what we fell in love with. M. Raven Metzner @mraven257 @tin_nickel0 I respect all opinions. I don't like haters. My apologies but there are some threads/discussions that Id rather not comment OH. MY. GAWD. Wow....just...wow. FOX needs to send their PR department to this guy and get him to shut the hell up. Just stop tweeting, dude. Stop. And his response about not commenting on some threads/discussion - guess that AbbieMills hashtag didn't go down really well...What a difference one year makes, in the writers room. Last year, they were toasting their own brilliance. Now?? After a long conversation with a couple of others - tweets that he made public - he tweeted this in response to being criticized: @strudelcuddy I can. But I don't enjoy being attacked. It's all about tone. Again, dude. Just stop. You supported the writing of something that was not well received by a large part of the fandom. Learn and move on. Is it wrong that I am getting such a kick out of this writing/episode trainwreck this week? It is utterly amusing. Too much schadenfreude, I think... Ann Mack - that promo you added: If that isn't telling of the Crane marriage and the lack of chemistry, I don't know what is. What IS it with those two - is this deliberate? I mean, is this a Mison acting choice? Is this a directorial choice? I mean, here is Ichabod sitting next to his wife, stiff as a board, she delicately holding his arm - no passion, no affection, nothing there. You would think he would have his arm around her, or something. But his body language is so cold and removed and reserved and stiff. I mean, yeah, they are an 18th century couple, but really.... On top of that, what a reflection of their marriage. Crane/Katrina: idly sitting on a bed just watching reality TV. Dull and boring. Abbie/Crane = crazy Nascar driving, breaking into cabins, drinking beer in bars, yoga, drinking coffee on dockside patios, etc....what a contrast. I want to be married to Abbie! So much more fun! 3 Link to comment
BigEasygirl November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 (edited) Sleepy Hollow: Beware the Succubus! - IGN This article and the comments from Tom make this epi seem a bit more interesting since it seems like it might set up fallout in a few different areas. Hmmm. Matt Barr's comment about Hawley having chemistry with Abbie...um...no. smdh It's as chemistry free as Tom/Ichabod and Katia/Katrina. Well, nothing has less chemistry than they do, but it's a close second. Edited November 10, 2014 by Reese Link to comment
topanga November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 Ann Mack - that promo you added: If that isn't telling of the Crane marriage and the lack of chemistry, I don't know what is. What IS it with those two - is this deliberate? I mean, is this a Mison acting choice? Is this a directorial choice? I mean, here is Ichabod sitting next to his wife, stiff as a board, she delicately holding his arm - no passion, no affection, nothing there. You would think he would have his arm around her, or something. But his body language is so cold and removed and reserved and stiff. I mean, yeah, they are an 18th century couple, but really.... What was even more telling was their lack of eye contact. Ichabod's, anyway. I'm not pushing for Ichabbie, but Ichaod and Abbie always look at each other when they speak, whether it's discussing history, disagreeing on strategy, talking about yoga, or drinking beers together. The intimacy of their friendship is stronger than the intimacy I've witnessed so far between Ichabod and Katrina. 2 Link to comment
RiddleyWalker November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 (edited) Ann Mack - that promo you added: If that isn't telling of the Crane marriage and the lack of chemistry, I don't know what is. What IS it with those two - is this deliberate? I mean, is this a Mison acting choice? Is this a directorial choice? I mean, here is Ichabod sitting next to his wife, stiff as a board, she delicately holding his arm - no passion, no affection, nothing there. You would think he would have his arm around her, or something. But his body language is so cold and removed and reserved and stiff. I mean, yeah, they are an 18th century couple, but really.... On top of that, what a reflection of their marriage. Crane/Katrina: idly sitting on a bed just watching reality TV. Dull and boring. Abbie/Crane = crazy Nascar driving, breaking into cabins, drinking beer in bars, yoga, drinking coffee on dockside patios, etc....what a contrast. I want to be married to Abbie! So much more fun! Of course that's deliberate! (At least I have to think it is) And I think it's pretty obvious where this marriage is heading… Edited November 10, 2014 by RiddleyWalker Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 Of course that's deliberate! (At least I have to think it is) And I think it's pretty obvious where this marriage is heading… Don't get me all excited, RiddleyWalker. That kind of hopeful positive crazy talk is giving me hope....*grin* The intimacy of their friendship is stronger than the intimacy I've witnessed so far between Ichabod and Katrina. ^^ This. Which makes the marriage so much harder to accept and understand. Link to comment
nurse1 November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 Is it wrong that I am getting such a kick out of this writing/episode trainwreck this week? It is utterly amusing. Too much schadenfreude, I think... Hell No, let me join you on this kick ass ride....this is becoming almost funny if it wasn't so sad at the same time....I don't understand that as writers they are so sensitive to a not so "positive" response to an episode.....makes me wonder....I'm going to try to hang in there for a few more episodes mainly because I love Nicole and Tom and enjoy watching them together. (yeah, I'm a Hater and damn proud of it!!) :) Link to comment
Indi November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 After watching that clip, I'm so happy they shut down any chances for Ichabbie to become a thing. Katia is the worst actress I've ever seen, but Tom? What was that? So much second-hand embarrassment! I don't want him to ruin any intimate scenes with Nicole. What a cold fish! Link to comment
DeLurker November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 (edited) Granted, I'll cut them (the writers) some slack because of the short lagtime between writing and airing an ep. With a book or a movie, the writers get a chance to finish their project before it is put out for public and critical consumption. But at the same time, that is the nature of the tv beast your working in with so get some coping skills, let your PR people do their jobs and shut the hell up. Maybe they know where all this is going and me (and many others) will ultimately be thrilled at the misdirect when all is revealed, but I'm finding the response of the writers to be so off putting I want to walk away despite a great cast who I want to support and "potential" (getting thinner all the time though) in the story. Edited November 10, 2014 by DeLurker Link to comment
Ann Mack November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 (edited) True, are they still filming episodes of Sleepy Hollow? As someone said above this may be a misdirect as the show is known to do this, only problem is if they continue to misdirect with Katrina interfering with the witnesses and whining about saving her 60 year old man-child many viewers may not be around when they correct the course. I have tried to be patient and hope that they would find some useful purpose for Katrina but still they are trying to portray her as this powerful (but she's still weak) beautiful enchantress (only she's not) valuable asset to the witnesses (yet they spend more time saving her which takes away from their duties as witnesses) brilliant spy (yet she's provide very little if any useful intel). Then I see the scene above and just want to scream GET THIS BLAND ASS WOMAN OFF MY SHOW BEFORE YOU WRITERS AND SHE DESTROY IT!! Then I have to regroup and say remember Abbie, Jenny. Irving, Ichabod and yes even Hawley and they all deserve better than to be dragged down because of stupidity, so tune in and watch and just don't think about the nightmare or indigestion that Katrina's presence or acting is going to give you and just say I can get through this (like the little choo choo train I think I can, I think I can). Oh well. guess I'll see tonight. I stated before I am until at least episode 9 and I will make a determination after that if I will continue. Which is a thought I never dreamed I would have after watching season 1 with such excitement and even laughing out loud at the antics of Abbie and Ichabod. Unfortunately the laughter isn't with the characters any more but now I'm laughing at the audacity of these writers to think the fans will be fooled by the little snippets of Ichabbie interjected into all the cringe worthiness of Katrina. BTW at first I thought maybe if they gave her some material to work with (although I thought she was a weak actress and probably couldn't handle anything more than being a damsel in distress I might like her) so now it feels as though they are forcing her in to being more inclusive with the rest of the cast and it still isn't working. Unfortunately she just doesn't have chemistry with anyone that she has been involved with YET and although she may have good friendships with the cast it doesn't translate to the scenes she's a part of! Edited November 10, 2014 by Ann Mack 2 Link to comment
DeLurker November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 True, are they still filming episodes of Sleepy Hollow? I wasn't sure so with the help of Google I found a list of filming locations for today and it includes one for Sleepy Hollow. Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 True, are they still filming episodes of Sleepy Hollow? Yeah, I think they are filming around episode 13 now? Last year they literally were maybe about a week ahead of filming. Like, episode 10 would air, but they had only finished principle filming 7-8 days before. That's why they aired the last two episodes together - they ran out of time to finish Bad Blood and had to delay it a week. Sad that this week - and year - they had lots of planning time to figure out the story arc and breakdowns for a lot of the episodes, and they ended up being worse off. Oh well. guess I'll see tonight. I stated before I am until at least episode 9 and I will make a determination after that if I will continue. I used to be excited about the show - had to watch live. It was a must. But last week was the first time I wanted to DVR it. Monday night is a heavy TV night for me. NFL Football, Sleepy Hollow and Forever are all on the same TIME for me. SH was the priority. Now Forever will be. I'll DVR SH. Unless tonight is better. Link to comment
Ann Mack November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 (edited) I too use to be excited about Sleepy Hollow as well. It usually takes more than the 2nd season (except Twisted one was enough) for a show to start losing its flavor with me. I still enjoy some parts of the show but some just make me RME and continuously ask the screen why? I hope that the writers (and one in particular) will not be too sensitive, arrogant, and prideful to listen to fans concerns and not dismiss them as "haters" if they aren't agreeing with what's been written and shown. The quickest way to lose your viewers is to NOT be appreciative of them to begin with. Edited November 10, 2014 by Ann Mack 1 Link to comment
phoenics November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 (edited) Honestly I think this is the direction. There is that clip which shows Ichabod and Katrina having a "moment" that usually would be reserved for Ichabbie. They played it exactly like the yoga scene - teasing fans with the idea that Ichatrina might break up, only to show them having a "moment" over reality tv. The show literally is trying to replace Ichabbie (Abbie hilariously reacting to Crane's "man out of time and place" scenarios) with Ichabod and Katrina reacting to the 21st century moments. Like some kind of demented I dream of Jeannie nonsense. Show chemistry? Ruined. This is very, very bad you guys. Plus - the writers are FAR too sensitive for this to be a giant misdirection. It's not. This is how they want it to go. Apparently they wanted to keep Abbie in Purgatory for eons - WHY?!?! So they could try to push Ichatrina, that's why. And instead FOX (the network) forced them to pump their brakes. FOX right now is probably the only reason the show hasn't fully gone and sidelined Abbie. If the writers knew it was a misdirection - they wouldn't be calling dissenting fans "haters". Instead, they would simply ONLY respond to the tweets that were asking/begging for better representation, better stories for Abbie, etc.. They would be telling those fans to stick it out and that they had something amazing coming up - or that they agreed, which is why episode #x would be great for us, etc.. But they didn't. Instead, the writer called us HATERS. They don't get it. This show is so done. Edited November 10, 2014 by phoenics 4 Link to comment
Ann Mack November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 (edited) That may be why they felt the need to reiterate that the story will always be about Abbie and Ichabod. For some reason and I'm hoping its not a chauvinistic one by the writers but they tend to give Ichabod more importance than Abbie. I get that he may be lead in the story itself but the story has been so drastically interpreted to make it ready for prime time TV that he does not have to be the center to all things happening in Sleepy Hollow. I truly find myself at a crossroads of whether to hang on after episode 9 in hopes that they get better or just say I'm done completely if they keep trying to sideline Abbie, Jenny and Irving for the "Crane's Family Hour". Truly none of them not even Ichabod is holding my interest right now and that's unfortunate but they have written him as such a feeble, weak minded hypocrite of an imbecile when it comes to Katrina even after all her deceit to the point he has turned his back on Abbie and risked her life on numerous occasions for the sake of his "true (vomiting a bit) love" Katrina. Hoping these episode are part of the darkness and Abbie and Jenny are going to bring us back into the light! Edited November 10, 2014 by Ann Mack Link to comment
DeLurker November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 About the promo clip - if they keep up that styling on Ich, I'll be calling him Jesus Crane. And is Katrina prohibited from blinking? Link to comment
phoenics November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 (edited) And now there is this from the actress playing the Succubus in tonight's episode:"I get to play with lots of different characters within it and lots of the different established characters. I get to meet with and mess with them. So that’s been really fun because I love the show. I get to mimic Abbie and Katrina and all these different roles that are in it already and I get to just play them."From here.Clearly the Nick stuff will be about Abbie - but why would the succubus mimic Katrina unless the writers are using this as YET ANOTHER WAY to keep The Cranes as the focus and to convince us of their EPIC LOVE and CRUSH any Ichabbie shipping to the fullest extent?Because why would the Succubus even focus on Ichabod and Katrina? You'd HOPE that his desire for his wife wouldn't be hidden (even if it appears to be on the show due to the lack of chemistry between them). The writers are only including that in order to send yet ANOTHER message to Ichabbie fans that the show doesn't want them.I would love to be proven wrong - but I already know I am not. And even if I am wrong, it can't erase the Cranewreck from last week's stinker of an episode (Deliverance). Edited November 10, 2014 by phoenics 1 Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 I get to mimic Abbie and Katrina and all these different roles that are in it already and I get to just play them. They show is trying to play it like the woman is going to appear to Crane as Abbie. Doubt it. The Succubus isn't going to be a shapeshifter - she mimics things. So Abbie for Hawley, and my guess is that Crane desires HONESTY from a woman. Not hiding the truth, which is all Katrina does. Nothing else would makes sense. Oh, and probably a lot of babies *sigh*. Of course the stupid show is going to push the Ichabbie portion, but....I think we've learned our lesson now. Hmmm...now it's possible that the Succubus could mimic some traits of Katrina towards Abraham.....Hmm.... Admonishes self = stop getting hopes up! Link to comment
phoenics November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 Yeah - but Abraham's desires aren't hidden either. Neither are Ichabod's - we know how both men feel about Katrina. There is nothing in there that would be cool or surprising, etc.. at all. It would only be interesting if it was about Ichabbie - which it will NOT be. Don't get your hopes up - seriously. Just don't do it. 1 Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 Yeah - but Abraham's desires aren't hidden either. Neither are Ichabod's - we know how both men feel about Katrina. There is nothing in there that would be cool or surprising, etc.. at all. It would only be interesting if it was about Ichabbie - which it will NOT be. Well...Abraham's desire could be that Katrina willingly becomes his bride. Crane's is obviously honesty. And if I am 100% correct, I demand a job as a writer, so I can correct their mistakes. Don't get your hopes up - seriously. Just don't do it. Which is why my desire tonight will be lots and lots of wine. *grin* because phoenics, you are so are dead on. I'm sad about that, but you are totally correct. *sigh* Oh, and that tweeting writer: still tweeting and slamming the fans as of 20 minutes ago. I guess FOX's PR department didn't get to him this morning after all. What a mess. 1 Link to comment
Ann Mack November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 Well...Abraham's desire could be that Katrina willingly becomes his bride. Crane's is obviously honesty. And if I am 100% correct, I demand a job as a writer, so I can correct their mistakes. Which is why my desire tonight will be lots and lots of wine. *grin* because phoenics, you are so are dead on. I'm sad about that, but you are totally correct. *sigh* Oh, and that tweeting writer: still tweeting and slamming the fans as of 20 minutes ago. I guess FOX's PR department didn't get to him this morning after all. What a mess. He needs to really let it go. I understand how he could begin to take it personal (as he is feeling attacked) but what good does it do him or the show for him to be showing such a lack of professionalism and continuously sticking his foot in his mouth? Do a generic response/reply now because obviously its not going to be sincere and let it go. I think anyone that has been tweeting with him or reading his replies know he is a lost cause when it comes to legitimately hearing and processing concerns about the path the show seems to be on now. Link to comment
Ann Mack November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 It's really hard to take an interview too seriously when they don't even bother to get the characters name correct. Oh TVFanatic I'm talking about you, first Katerina and now Holly it's called proofreading SMH! http://www.tvfanatic.com/2014/11/sleepy-hollow-set-scoop-the-cast-slash-producers-tease-tonights/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter The episode tonight is written by Albert Kim, I actually loved his writing when he was with "Nikita" (if you haven't watched this show you really should). Hopefully he won't disappoint tonight, but to be fair I'm already not feeling that oh lets replace Abbie and Ichabod's cute banter and try and make it work with Katrina unfortunately the soap opera TV watching scene is just as bland as she is and failed with me at least miserably. I'm trying honestly I am, but she makes it so damn hard! Link to comment
phoenics November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 He needs to really let it go. I understand how he could begin to take it personal (as he is feeling attacked) but what good does it do him or the show for him to be showing such a lack of professionalism and continuously sticking his foot in his mouth? Do a generic response/reply now because obviously its not going to be sincere and let it go. I think anyone that has been tweeting with him or reading his replies know he is a lost cause when it comes to legitimately hearing and processing concerns about the path the show seems to be on now. He needs to just stop talking. He's only making it worse. Link to comment
RiddleyWalker November 15, 2014 Share November 15, 2014 (edited) Interesting casting call for SH I came across today... FOX’s hit TV series Sleepy Hollow is looking for people of all ethnicities, 18 years and older to work as paid extras in a “Bazaar” scene that will be filmed sometime between Wednesday, Nov 12th and Friday, Nov 14th. This is a scene that will feature an exceptionally diverse group, and we have a specific need for people of Asian, African American, Middle Eastern, Pacific Islander, Latino, and Indian descent. Are the witnesses going to be going out into the hinterlands-- actually leave sleepy hollow? Hope it's a scene from a mission to gather intelligence or a critical weapon and not just a flashback scene. Edited November 15, 2014 by RiddleyWalker Link to comment
Miss Dee November 15, 2014 Share November 15, 2014 Let's hope it's not for an ending scene where they all gather around Katrina reverently crying "Mother!".... 4 Link to comment
phoenics November 16, 2014 Share November 16, 2014 Interesting casting call for SH I came across today... Are the witnesses going to be going out into the hinterlands-- actually leave sleepy hollow? Hope it's a scene from a mission to gather intelligence or a critical weapon and not just a flashback scene. I missed that "bazaar" reference before - I wonder what that's about... hmmm... Link to comment
savinggrace November 16, 2014 Share November 16, 2014 (edited) SpoilertV has their episode preview for "Mama". It's (obviously) spoiler-heavy and sounds promising http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/11/sleepy-hollow-mama-advance-preview.html some of the more interesting occurences: There will be more witchcraft from the Mills ! Abbie has proven herself very capable with spells and magic over the season. In “Mama”, we will see she’s not the only one capable of that in her family. Are the Mills special or anyone has the ability recite a spell ? Ichabod won’t be helping much during the episode, but there is a good explanation for it. And it’s hilarious as usual. Poor Ichabod... Abbie will interact more with Irvin in "Mama", I’ve missed their scenes together since the start of the season. Their relationship is strong, I’m always very fond of their talks. I’m always amused that Abbie still refers to him as Captain. As Ichabod isn’t much available, Abbie will call Hawley to help her. Ichabod is still jealous of Hawley coming up to help Abbie instead of him, it’s cute. And also, Hawley coming to help will mean more scenes between the Mills sisters and him… Love that. Abbie and Jenny will get very emotional and they will (finally !) discuss their feelings, about their childhood, how their mother was with them. They didn’t have the same relationship with her, so it was time to set things straight. They both also discuss Abbie being a witness and its consequences. Hawley will bring something special to Ichabod; something he will very much appreciate. Remember Grace Dixon, Abbie and Jenny’s ancestor ? Well, we will see her again, and she will be mentioned. Something that belonged to her will provide very useful for the Mills sisters. Edited November 16, 2014 by savinggrace Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 16, 2014 Share November 16, 2014 I missed that "bazaar" reference before - I wonder what that's about... hmmm... Apparently there are some "internatonal" and "Hindu" influences coming up, which out of everything they could write, this is kinda odd. SpoilertV has their episode preview for "Mama". It's (obviously) spoiler-heavy and sounds promising I really don't like this reviewer at all. He can't get the names spelled correctly (in this one, he spells Irving - Irvin) and moons over Katrina (yeah, yeah I'm reversed biased). Also, I don't like him because he writes things like this: I get that the Cranes family is way more complicated than the Mills, so it’s understandable they got more episodes focused on them. Ichabod and Katrina’ son is the Horseman of War after all. It creates great drama. And Ichabod and Katrina’s past is set in another century, it give more material to the story (and they're hot in costume). Dude, no it doesn't, as 90% of the fandom and 90% of the media has already complained about for the last two - three weeks. He is completely apologetic to the Crane drama, thinks Katrina is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and thought that demon babies were an awesome idea. And of course he thinks it's great that Hawley is with the Mills sisters. I really resent that, actually, because here was an episode where Ichabod could bond with Abbie and Jenny, learn about their past, and all work together to find out their past, but now he is the one pushed to the side. Not happy about that. I really like that trio working together. Hawley will bring something special to Ichabod; something he will very much appreciate. A bottle of 200-year old Scotch? 1 Link to comment
savinggrace November 16, 2014 Share November 16, 2014 He is completely apologetic to the Crane drama, thinks Katrina is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and thought that demon babies were an awesome idea. And of course he thinks it's great that Hawley is with the Mills sisters. I really resent that, actually, because here was an episode where Ichabod could bond with Abbie and Jenny, learn about their past, and all work together to find out their past, but now he is the one pushed to the side. Not happy about that. I really like that trio working together. I sorta see what you're saying but Crane has already bonded with Abbie and "Miss Jenny". We've seen them work together to learn things many times. If one thing Hawley's presence made me realize is that the Witnesses' world is really small and Abbie and Crane need to hang out with other people sometimes especially people who bring out different sides of their personalities. Also having Hawley work with the Mills sisters will give us an idea of where they are going with his character. People were outraged by the prospect of a triangle but for some reason I don't think they'll go there. A bottle of 200-year old Scotch? My first thought was weed. Don't know why. 1 Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 16, 2014 Share November 16, 2014 I sorta see what you're saying but Crane has already bonded with Abbie and "Miss Jenny". We've seen them work together to learn things many times. If one thing Hawley's presence made me realize is that the Witnesses' world is really small and Abbie and Crane need to hang out with other people sometimes especially people who bring out different sides of their personalities. Also having Hawley work with the Mills sisters will give us an idea of where they are going with his character. People were outraged by the prospect of a triangle but for some reason I don't think they'll go there. The thoughts in my mind totally didn't translate into written text, dammit! I think what I was trying to say was that Abbie has had to be by Ichabod's side, and has had to deal with the Crane family drama over and over again. I wanted Ichabod to now be the one to be by Abbie's side, and help her deal with the Mills family drama and be supportive for once. AND I wanted more Jenny and Ichabod scenes. But these writers... You are right though - we will see how Hawley interacts with the sisters - hopefully no triangles to be seen! *grin* My first thought was weed. Don't know why. I love the way you think. I will say this - I want a scene with Hawley and Ichabod getting totally plastered in a bar. Pretty please! Those two could do some good comedy! 1 Link to comment
RiddleyWalker November 17, 2014 Share November 17, 2014 "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." Henry VI, Part 2 OK, a bit of a change of pace here for those who are into spoilers and trying to figure out where the writers are going in the first half of the season. I've been reading the synopses of upcoming episodes, thinking about episodes we've seen, saw an interview at NY Comicon with Mark Goffman, and I've been trying to figure out what the big mid-season finale will be. Goffman says that there are "Easter eggs" throughout the season leading up to the finale and I think I may have figured out part of it. Looking ahead, it appears Irving is going to be back in the thick of things and asked to wield the Sword of Methuselah. We know that Irving has to kill someone in order to regain control of his soul but hasn't been willing to despite having the chance to kill the unrepentant man who crippled his daughter. I think Irving WILL kill someone and it will be……HENRY! Nice way out of his fix and the end of the CFD! Goffman, in his interview, said John Noble is in all of the first eleven episodes, and the mid-season finale is episode 2:11. Now what happens after Henry is killed? There has to be a new Horseman of War. Who might that be? I suppose Irving could be, but I don't see them going that way…. I'm betting on Katrina. She'll feel distraught and betrayed after her son is killed and is in tight with the Horseman of Death. Katrina and Abraham, The Horsemen of War and Death---the new power couple! Thoughts? 5 Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 17, 2014 Share November 17, 2014 Looking ahead, it appears Irving is going to be back in the thick of things and asked to wield the Sword of Methuselah. We know that Irving has to kill someone in order to regain control of his soul but hasn't been willing to despite having the chance to kill the unrepentant man who crippled his daughter. I think Irving WILL kill someone and it will be……HENRY! Nice way out of his fix and the end of the CFD! Goffman, in his interview, said John Noble is in all of the first eleven episodes, and the mid-season finale is episode 2:11. Now what happens after Henry is killed? There has to be a new Horseman of War. Who might that be? I suppose Irving could be, but I don't see them going that way…. I'm betting on Katrina. She'll feel distraught and betrayed after her son is killed and is in tight with the Horseman of Death. Katrina and Abraham, The Horsemen of War and Death---the new power couple! I can totally see that scenario and makes total sense. I like it except for one thing. If Katrina becomes Horseperson of War, then we are going to have to deal with Crane now focusing on saving Katrina from being a Horseperson, and all of that drama that comes with it, just like speculating that Abraham could be redeemed also. I just need her to sacrifice herself and go away so that there is no chance of coming back and Crane can finally move his focus from her. But good theory! 3 Link to comment
phoenics November 18, 2014 Share November 18, 2014 (edited) I can totally see that scenario and makes total sense. I like it except for one thing. If Katrina becomes Horseperson of War, then we are going to have to deal with Crane now focusing on saving Katrina from being a Horseperson, and all of that drama that comes with it, just like speculating that Abraham could be redeemed also. I just need her to sacrifice herself and go away so that there is no chance of coming back and Crane can finally move his focus from her. But good theory! Agreed. Riddley - can we switch your story so Katrina is killed instead? Then it neatly wraps up the CFD folly of "save our son" and it COSTS Ichabod something huge - his wife (and all of the idealization that goes with her). Bonus points if it sets Headless off and he loses his humanity (what's left of it) - maybe somehow her death can be partially blamed on Ichabod. So Headless is back to being a BAMF and Henry is as irredeemable as ever. Abbie ends up being proven right - with Ichabod finally accepting his role as a witness - though now he has to contend with others being held above him (Hawley, Jenny, Irving) due to his own actions in destroying Abbie's trust by constantly siding with Katrina. Plus - a new Horseman emerges. There has to be a MAJOR stakes here. No one will really feel it if Henry dies. No one cares about Henry except Katrina and Ichabod - and his death won't matter in the long run - especially since Katrina is still so boring - it would simply push Ichabod to try to save HER - not finally accept being a Witness. No - the only way out and the ONLY way to bring the show back to badassery is to have Henry kill Katrina - but somehow it can be partially blamed on Ichabod (from Headless' perspective). Headless is back to being on a rampage. Jeremy breaks with Henry right before or after Katrina is killed, but Headless kills Jeremy - leaving only evil Henry behind. So now we finally drop all of the CFD and Ichabod PAYS for his decision to put the world at risk for his son. He learns a hard lesson and finally accepts that his role is as a Witness. Edited November 18, 2014 by phoenics 5 Link to comment
HalcyonDays November 18, 2014 Share November 18, 2014 ^^ THIS - All of this phoenics. Crane needs to experiences some consequences of his actions, and losing Katrina at the hand of his son - whom he should have killed in the first place - would be an excellent way to boost up the story, close off CFD, get rid of Henry and Katrina and finally teach Ichabod a much-needed long overdue lesson. And I like how it would affect Abraham too...damn, I hope your theory is what happens, phoenics! 2 Link to comment
RiddleyWalker November 18, 2014 Share November 18, 2014 (edited) Agreed. Riddley - can we switch your story so Katrina is killed instead? Then it neatly wraps up the CFD folly of "save our son" and it COSTS Ichabod something huge - his wife (and all of the idealization that goes with her). Bonus points if it sets Headless off and he loses his humanity (what's left of it) - maybe somehow her death can be partially blamed on Ichabod. So Headless is back to being a BAMF and Henry is as irredeemable as ever. Abbie ends up being proven right - with Ichabod finally accepting his role as a witness - though now he has to contend with others being held above him (Hawley, Jenny, Irving) due to his own actions in destroying Abbie's trust by constantly siding with Katrina. Plus - a new Horseman emerges. There has to be a MAJOR stakes here. No one will really feel it if Henry dies. No one cares about Henry except Katrina and Ichabod - and his death won't matter in the long run - especially since Katrina is still so boring - it would simply push Ichabod to try to save HER - not finally accept being a Witness. No - the only way out and the ONLY way to bring the show back to badassery is to have Henry kill Katrina - but somehow it can be partially blamed on Ichabod (from Headless' perspective). Headless is back to being on a rampage. Jeremy breaks with Henry right before or after Katrina is killed, but Headless kills Jeremy - leaving only evil Henry behind. So now we finally drop all of the CFD and Ichabod PAYS for his decision to put the world at risk for his son. He learns a hard lesson and finally accepts that his role is as a Witness. I like that very much! ;) That has been my hope all along and preferred scenario but I think the Irving saving his soul scenario is what the writers will be going with and he needs to kill SOMEONE to get his soul back. Hmmmm…..Now thinking more about it, Irving killing Henry may be a bit TOO obvious and Henry killing Katrina (after we're anticipating Irving killing Henry) would be more dramatic and solve so many problems…. My hope has been for Katrina to be killed and go somewhere with no way out (i.e. NOT purgatory). I do continue to hold out hope that Henry could kill Katrina (perhaps as "collateral damage" to an act of his), feel, or at least ACT contrite, and be "redeemed" and serve in a Walter Bishop/Sin-Eater role with the Witnesses--until he reveals he's really "Walternate"! (Or he's still an evil minion of Moloch) Oh, and we're left with Irving as the new Horseman of War. (Which would be AWESOME and might also explain why they brought in Sheriff Reyes). Edited November 18, 2014 by RiddleyWalker Link to comment
BigEasygirl November 18, 2014 Share November 18, 2014 (edited) Bravo, phoenics, I need your entire scenario to happen. If this is what's in store--even though I will still have disliked a lot of this season--I can somewhat support it, and get through to the other side and season 3. Please, please let this be what's going to happen. Oh, and in season 3, Imma need to see less Henry along with him and Headless back on equal Horseman status. Oh, and we're left with Irving as the new Horseman of War. (Which would be AWESOME and might also explain why they brought in Sheriff Reyes). Riddley, I think Orlando Jones' talents would be wasted as a Horseman. I want him back on the force working with TeamWitness. If the show wants a bromance with Crane, they should use Irving. I just really enjoy what Orlando brings to that role. I love HalcyonDays' scenario where Irving is re-instated amid controversy and the distrust of his fellow officers. Maybe he retracts his confession, or it's thrown out due to some violation of his rights and the case is closed due to lack of hard evidence. I think Reyes should be bumped up to police commissioner (or Mayor) who represents the departments distrust of Irving, but has a soft spot for Abbie. She's softened up to her recently, so lets keep that. Edited November 18, 2014 by Reese 1 Link to comment
phoenics November 18, 2014 Share November 18, 2014 About Irving - someone else speculated that perhaps in the end, it will be Irving who is sitting down writing everything down - that won't work if he's a Horseman. I love the scenario of him being the one left at the end (Abbie and Ichabod get sucked up to heaven like in Being Human) - writing the story down and titling it "Sleepy Hollow". Plus, to me, it just makes him more collateral damage to Ichabod's poor decisions. And that's not fair. Irving doesn't deserve to end up a Horseman because Ichabod couldn't take out Henry - or wouldn't. Nope. Ichabod's bad decisions need to come down on him AND Katrina (who apparently thinks only her opinion matters). Since Katrina thinks that her thoughts about Henry are all that matters - she deserves to deal with the reality of that... and let Henry kill her. Give her and Ichabod a tiny bit of hope that Jeremy can be separated from Henry - maybe Henry fools them into thinking they can get Jeremy out of him and lures them into a trap and kills Katrina. Then Ichabod has to deal with the fact that his actions caused her death and finally deal with how their actions created 2 horsemen. Abraham blames Ichabod for Katrina's death - angry that his decision to try to "save his son" cost them Katrina. But the new horseman is somehow related to Abbie - perhaps someone she couldn't save? And that enthralls all of them in season 3... need to think more on that part... I need to write some fan fiction, lol. 2 Link to comment
RiddleyWalker November 18, 2014 Share November 18, 2014 About Irving - someone else speculated that perhaps in the end, it will be Irving who is sitting down writing everything down - that won't work if he's a Horseman. I love the scenario of him being the one left at the end (Abbie and Ichabod get sucked up to heaven like in Being Human) - writing the story down and titling it "Sleepy Hollow". Plus, to me, it just makes him more collateral damage to Ichabod's poor decisions. And that's not fair. Irving doesn't deserve to end up a Horseman because Ichabod couldn't take out Henry - or wouldn't. Nope. Ichabod's bad decisions need to come down on him AND Katrina (who apparently thinks only her opinion matters). Since Katrina thinks that her thoughts about Henry are all that matters - she deserves to deal with the reality of that... and let Henry kill her. Give her and Ichabod a tiny bit of hope that Jeremy can be separated from Henry - maybe Henry fools them into thinking they can get Jeremy out of him and lures them into a trap and kills Katrina. Then Ichabod has to deal with the fact that his actions caused her death and finally deal with how their actions created 2 horsemen. Abraham blames Ichabod for Katrina's death - angry that his decision to try to "save his son" cost them Katrina. But the new horseman is somehow related to Abbie - perhaps someone she couldn't save? And that enthralls all of them in season 3... need to think more on that part... I need to write some fan fiction, lol. Hmmmmm…. Interesting thoughts. One thing to consider if Irving becomes the Horseman of War (or Katrina) is that if either scenario comes to pass, it shows the "Horseman" is a title, a rank that can be given to someone else. So, even if Irving become the Horseman of War, he could be redeemed somehow. Getting back to my original scenario, I think Irving's decision to kill or not to kill will be a key point. And, (IF he decides to kill) WHO he wants to kill will be the question. This is where I think the writers have led us. This may be a smokescreen as I've pointed out--but maybe not. Who does Irving blame? Maybe enough will come out that Katrina is the root of this evil, but currently, Henry seems most culpable and the most likely target. "There's many a slip twixt cup and lip" as the old-saying goes, so who knows how it will turn out? 2 Link to comment
phoenics November 18, 2014 Share November 18, 2014 I do agree with you about Irving still having the option to kill someone so they can take his place ... I do wonder how that is going to play out... We will see, I guess... Link to comment
BigEasygirl November 18, 2014 Share November 18, 2014 ^Isn't Irving supposed to be the one to wield the sword that can get rid of Moloch? What if in killing the child Moloch or the adult demon, Katrina is somehow linked to him and dies as well? Or what if she tries to save him, and she's killed which then sends him back to the underworld? What is Irving runs them both through when she jumped in front of him out of guilt over not protecting Jeremy? All I know is I need the show to get rid of Katrina and somehow exercise Jeremy from Henry so he can go be at peace with his mother in permanent death. If not, Ichabod will never be free to focus on the Apocalypse, and I just can't sit through another season of CFD and folks trying to redeem all the doomsday Horsemen. Let them be unapologetically evil so we can be genuinely scared and fearful that the end of days is at hand. These two wimps, the petulant little boy and the jilted ex lover, are hardly scary. They're not even interesting. 1 Link to comment
DearEvette November 18, 2014 Share November 18, 2014 Well given that Katrina has now hosted a demon in her body and he is giving her demon scabies, maybe she is turning into Pestilence. And instead of redeeming Henry, Moloch and Abraham succeed in turning her. To me that seems to have more story potential. That or just killing her off outright. Or if they are attempting to stick to story canon, having her turn on Ichabod and falling in love with Abraham for real. I just can't believe that her whole purpose is to solely be Ichabod's wife who is btw a witch they can call upon when they need witchy stuff and to generally hang around getting in the way of our Witnesses. If they are truly as committed to making her character be an integral part of the show, then she needs to have more immediacy than that. I also can't believe that they are pointedly showing that both Abbie and Jenny can do incantations for no reason either. That has to mean something. I know that there has been speculation that the other two Horsemen would be somehow Abbie related, but what if ALL the Horsemen are Crane related? What if the Mills sisters (and the family) were always supposed to be the demon fighters? And the only reason Jenny isn't the other Witness in this time is because Crane is here supernaturally and he usurped her place. The demon did try to kill Jenny in that car, not Abbie. 2 Link to comment
phoenics November 18, 2014 Share November 18, 2014 Oooh! I like how you think! Gonna come back and say more but I gotta run! Link to comment
maraleia November 18, 2014 Share November 18, 2014 What about the Horseman of Famine and Conquest? It's interesting that no one has talked about them in the context of this story. Maybe Katrina will end up as one of them. 1 Link to comment
tv echo November 18, 2014 Share November 18, 2014 (edited) I did some research because I'm not as up on my Biblical knowledge as I should be, so here goes... The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are mentioned in the Holy Bible in Chapter 6 of the Book of Revelations, which tells of a “‘book’ or ‘scroll’ in God’s right hand that is sealed with seven seals. The Lamb of God (Jesus Christ) opens the first four of the seven seals, which summons four riders on white, red, black, and pale horses. Athough the Bible only names one rider (Death), the four Horsemen are commonly known as Conquest, War, Famine, and Death, respectively. The White HorseI watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come and see!” I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest. (Revelation 6:1-2) The Red HorseWhen the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come and see!” Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword. ( Revelation 6:3-4) The Black HorseWhen the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a day’s wages, and three quarts of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!” (Revelation 6:5-6) The Pale HorseWhen the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come and see!” I looked and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine, and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. (Revelation 6:7-8) http://publicdomainreview.org/collections/the-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/ The Horseman of Conquest (white horse) refers to an Antichrist who will be a false imitator of the true Christ. He will lead many astray and will be a ruler who will conquer, perhaps in the name of peace and/or religion. The Horseman of War (red horse) will bring terrible wars. The Horseman of Famine (black horse) refers to a great famine that will take place, likely as the result of the wars and earthquakes all over the world. The Horseman of Death (pale horse) symbolizes death and destruction, and is the culmination of everything else brought by the other Horsemen.http://www.gotquestions.org/four-horsemen-apocalypse.htmlhttp://www.patheos.com/blogs/christiancrier/2014/05/17/who-are-the-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse-a-bible-study/ On Sleepy Hollow, we've seen the Horseman of War (Henry Parrish/Jeremy) (no red horse so far) and the Horseman of Death (Headless Horseman/Abraham) (pale horse). So the producers could be saving the Horseman of Conquest (white horse) and the Horseman of Famine (black horse) for future seasons - assuming the show lasts that long. Edited November 18, 2014 by tv echo Link to comment
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