The Godfather Epic

[revbfc]

7 hours and 10 minutes of the Godfather with all scenes edited in chronological order (with lots of additional scenes).

Anybody else watch this on HBO tonight? Thoughts?

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Watching right now.

[benteen]

I wish they would put in on Blu-ray.  There was a version on VHS I remember seeing in the stores many years ago.

[GHScorpiosRule]

AAACK!! I have HBO. Why didn't I see promos for this??!! I dvr'd it for next week. Weird thing is, in the synopsis guide, it says the duration is one hour, so I checked-nope, running time is 7 hours.

I remember that the USA network years ago had the deleted scenes from them all, back before DVDs and dvrs, but included commercials. I remember one of the scenes I never saw/was deleted was in Part II, where one of Sonny's daughters is asking Michael permission to get married to her boyfriend or something. It was a sweet scene.

There was another one in the first movie between Sonny and his mother, after Vito had been shot.

But yeah, when it came out on bluray, it should have included EVERYTHING!

I know mob is bad, the mafia is heinous and a bunch of murderers, but I just love the first and second movies! The third was a disgrace. Except for that one line that always gets quoted by Michael! Y'all know which one I'm referring to!

[benteen]

Yeah, I liked the scene with Michael and Sonny's daughter.  It shows the warm side of Michael that is largely gone by then.

 

Here's the link to an earlier version of the Godfather 2 script.  It's got a lot of scenes that weren't in the film and it has the original version of the Godfather 2 flashback scene with the Don. 

 

http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/godfather2.html

[VCRTracking]

I love Michael's line to his niece's suitor who says he's embarrassed to admit he gets money from his family's company:

"Oh you shouldn't be ashamed of your wealth. This contempt for money is another trick of the rich to keep the poor without it."

 

There's a lot of great deleted scenes in the first movie like Sonny telling his mother that Vito has been shot, and later how he finds out Paulie was the traitor who set him up.

[revbfc]

I enjoyed this a lot. It's not the DEFINITIVE version, but it works as sloppy, wet kiss to Godfather enthusiasts. It reminds me of the fan edits of the Star Wars prequels. Not that anything was improved upon here, more that the story was changed in certain places to lead viewers to other conclusions.

The added scenes were really cool, but I can totally understand why they weren't included in the original versions.

[millennium]

I don't get HBO but I did see a version some years ago on USA or some channel and it included many scenes not in the original movies.   One I vividly remember was younger Vito (DeNiro) in Sicily, out in a rowboat, beating someone to death with an oar.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

HBO replays this at 9pm tonight.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm not sue what is going on with HBO. I had set to record this last night, but only the first hour recorded!

Fortunately, all 7+ hours are available to view, which I'm doing right now. Only three more hours to go.

Not sure what it is about this movie (the first one especially) that I can watch it repeatedly. I just love it. Love Brando's Vito, as well as DeNiro's young Vito (ROWR).

So many quotable lines!

[GHScorpiosRule]

And I noticed two extra scenes that were in the USA version, but weren't in this version-I'm almost positive we had a scene with Connie and her latest hubby Merle, with him whining about something or other, and the scene where Michael located Fabrizio and we saw him run and get killed. I could have also sworn when Michael was told of Kay's "miscarriage," that the next scene was of her in bed, and Michael went to see her. That was in the original, I believe.

For some reason, I thought Part III was part of this epic, but it's not, and I am so glad for that.

And I'm going to copy the phrase from the Oscar snub thread and reiterate that Al Pacino wuz robbed! By not getting the supporting Oscar for Part I and best actor for Part II. Instead they give him that pity Oscar for a movie that wasn't that great, nor was his performance on the same level in Scent of a Woman.

Or for Dog Day Afternoon, Injustice For All, or Serpico.

Edited January 25, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[benteen]

Pacino should have been nominated for Lead Actor in the first Godfather.

 

In a deleted scene from Godfather II, Fabrizio gets killed in a car explosion coming out of the pizza parlor he owns in Buffalo, NY.  The same way Michael's first wife died.  In the novel, Michael sends a gunman to kill him and let him know that Michael Corleone sends his regards.  An earlier version of The Godfather has Neri driving Michael to where Fabrizio is.  Neri says he could do it for him but Michael tells him he's got it.  This scene MIGHT have been filmed because I've seen a still around this time of Al Pacino with a shotgun.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Pacino should have been nominated for Lead Actor in the first Godfather.

In a deleted scene from Godfather II, Fabrizio gets killed in a car explosion coming out of the pizza parlor he owns in Buffalo, NY. The same way Michael's first wife died. In the novel, Michael sends a gunman to kill him and let him know that Michael Corleone sends his regards. An earlier version of The Godfather has Neri driving Michael to where Fabrizio is. Neri says he could do it for him but Michael tells him he's got it. This scene MIGHT have been filmed because I've seen a still around this time of Al Pacino with a shotgun.

I figured Supporting, since we hardly saw him until toward the middle end. Brando got it, though he didn't appear to accept it (and I don't want to get into the reasons here), but since I love Brando, I was happy to learn he'd gotten the Oscar for it. Truth to tell, this was the first Brando movie I saw and I fell in love with him here, and then proceeded to watch as many of his movies as I could. I've always wondered whose cat that was, that he was playing with, and who was playing with him in return, in the opening scene of Godfather.

But boy did Pacino's Michael scare the bejesus out of me in Godfather II. How he could turn so cold, so fast and that look in his eyes. He was most scariest when he was quiet. So controlled, that his bursts of temper, somehow weren't as scary. Does that make sense?

And like I said upthread, I know I'm not supposed to sympathize, let alone like this mafia family, because, you know, mafia, but I always want to kick Bonesara's ass. Especially in the deleted scene that we saw in this epic, where he's bitching about hating the day his wife became friends with Comare Corleone...assuming he was called in to make a body disappear, only to learn that Vito was asking him to use his skills, because he didn't want Sonny's mother to see him like this. And the line "Look how they massacred my boy" always gets to me, even though it was clear to me that Michael was his favorite/apple of his eye.

Yes, I remember that about how Fabrizio died, and I didn't know about that still that might be out there about Michael shooting him. I think him exploding to bits and pieces was...dammit, I can't think of the word, in the same manner that he killed Michael's wife, Apollonia. Who really, irked me with her whining up until she died. Then I was sad. I'm so mean.

I really did appreciate seeing that scene in the first part, where Michael tells Tom he's out as consigliere, because we see Tom ask those questions of Michael, with Vito telling Michael, he (Vito) knew that Tom would have caught whatever that was. Basically saying, Tom was too smart to just accept the reasons Michael was giving for Tom being out. It doesn't make Michael look so cold. But then again, maybe that was the reason they did cut it in the original: to make Michael look cold.

And I always cover my eyes when Sunny gets killed. I just can't watch it.

And of course now, I'm going to watch my copy of Godfather II just to see Fabrizio get his.

ETA: because spelling is IMPORTANT!

Edited January 25, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[benteen]

There's poetic justice in Fabrizio dying the way Appollonia died.  Though I always thought Michael was like his father in that he'd want someone who hurt him that personally to know who it was that had killed him

 

I always thought Michael, while trusting Tom, soured on him when he returned from Italy.

[GHScorpiosRule]

There's poetic justice in Fabrizio dying the way Appollonia died.  Though I always thought Michael was like his father in that he'd want someone who hurt him that personally to know who it was that had killed him

 

I always thought Michael, while trusting Tom, soured on him when he returned from Italy.

 

That's the phrase I was looking for! "poetic justice." And I totally agree.  And also agree that I always thought Michael was like Vito in that sense as well--that he would personally kill those that had hurt him or his family personally.

 

Michael's attitude toward Tom after returning from Italy made no sense, but then we have that scene in Godfather II, after Roth has tried to kill Michael, Kay and the children, where he pulls Tom aside and tells him that he's the only person he trusts, and explains why he kept Tom out of everything.

 

Still, though I found the second movie to drag in places, and the first one remains my favorite, both movies are so very, very good.

Edited January 25, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[benteen]

Agreed.  You see the way Vito killed the old Don and the deleted scenes where he killed the Old Don's men.  He was the kind of man who sought personal revenge on the men who killed those he loved.  I see Michael as the same way.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Yeah. I loved Young Vito going back to Sicily and wreaking his vengeance on that Don and his men.

 

One of the more amusing things about the first movie, considering the genre, was watching Brando's Vito, look on in confusion and smiling as Luca is trying and mucking up, his gratitude and thanks for being invited to his daughter's wedding, on the day of her wedding.

 

Or how he mocks Johnny, telling him "You can act like a man!" slaps him, does an impersonation of Johnny's whining and crying. Or how he says a man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man, and looks at Sonny. Who we know had been banging one of the Bridesmaids.

Edited January 26, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh! And I forgot to mention this yesterday:

 

But, just how stupid was Carlo, anyway? Did he not know what family he was marrying into? That he thought he could get away with abusing Connie? That Sonny at least, would do nothing? Or tell her to shut up in front of her family? Even if Comare and even Vito in this Epic, told him not to interfere. Which, at least on Vito's part, was such a disconnect for me, since he loves his family. That both could watch their baby, their daughter, be abused verbally and physically. It made me recall how he said "Never" in response to Sonny's idea of bringing him into the family business. Vito said "Give him a living" but he was never to be brought in. Which meant, there was no trust there.  And at the end of Part II, we see Sonny bring Carlo, and introduce him to Connie and the family, which meant he was his friend? I know, I know, it's nitpicking, but I tend to catch on to the small stuff, heh.

 

I just finished watching last night, the nearly 3 hours of the special features in the bluray of Godfather, Godfather II, Godfather III, and I found it very interesting how the suits, who hated Brando, didn't want him in the picture; didn't like Pacino, and wanted Redford or Ryan O'Neal to play Michael! I read the book, and to be honest, I don't remember Michael being described as a tall, blond, Northern Sicilian! And I'm really anal when it comes to physical descriptions in books. Then again, I'd just seen Godfather for the fourth or fifth time, and just imagined Brando, Pacino, Keaton, Caan, etc., while reading the book. I do remember how the book described Vito as homely and not attractive at all. But ugh. The movie would have failed spectacularly if Redford or O'Neal had played Michael.  They even had Caan test for Michael's role; and DeNiro even tested for Sonny! But it didn't work, and they knew they'd use DeNiro to play a young Vito.  And it wasn't until they saw the scene where Michael kills Sollozo and McKluskey, that the suits were convinced that Pacino should remain as Michael.  And I guess Paramount had problems with Brando, which is why they didn't want him. The movie almost wasn't made. Coppola had to fight for everything, poor guy. And I love how they tried to say that the last movie was the coup de grace to the whole saga; that it wasn't as bad as folks made it out to be. And the selected scenes they showed? If I hadn't already seen it, I would probably want to see it, heh. The worst of that last movie was I couldn't get past the incesty storyline, that of Vincent (Andy Garcia), Sonny's son from that bridesmaid Sonny was banging in the first movie, and Mary, Michael's daughter, who were first cousins! blech.

 

Oh, and I did some searching and found out that Puzo's The Sicilian takes place while Michael was there in exile, and his changed personality, had to do with him meeting and getting to know that character. The practicality, the coldness, between Apollonia's murder and his return to the States.

 

So naturally, I now want to go read it!  After I read The Godfather again, of course.

[Inquisitionist]

But, just how stupid was Carlo, anyway? Did he not know what family he was marrying into? That he thought he could get away with abusing Connie? That Sonny at least, would do nothing?

 

I'm not exactly sure what you're questioning here.  Carlo's abuse of Connie was a ploy to draw Sonny into a venue where one of the other families could kill him -- which eventually did happen.  Michael figured this out and confronted Carlo about it at the end of The Godfather, then had Carlo killed.  Are you questioning how Carlo could have thought the family would not eventually uncover his role in Sonny's death?  It was the same gamble that Tessio took.

[ZaldamoWilder]

7 hours and 10 minutes of the Godfather with all scenes edited in chronological order (with lots of additional scenes).

Anybody else watch this on HBO tonight? Thoughts?

 

I get mad when my sister clutters up dvr space with nonsense.  But for this, for all glorious 7 hours and 10 minutes of this.  I love her very much this week.   Like you Scorpios, I had no idea this was about to enter my life.   Imagine the glee when, while trying to find something to watch during snowmaggedon, I came across this thing in our folders.  squeee!

 

And I noticed two extra scenes that were in the USA version, but weren't in this version-I'm almost positive we had a scene with Connie and her latest hubby Merle, with him whining about something or other, and the scene where Michael located Fabrizio and we saw him run and get killed. I could have also sworn when Michael was told of Kay's "miscarriage," that the next scene was of her in bed, and Michael went to see her. That was in the original, I believe.

For some reason, I thought Part III was part of this epic, but it's not, and I am so glad for that.

And I'm going to copy the phrase from the Oscar snub thread and reiterate that Al Pacino wuz robbed! By not getting the supporting Oscar for Part I and best actor for Part II. Instead they give him that pity Oscar for a movie that wasn't that great, nor was his performance on the same level in Scent of a Woman.

Or for Dog Day Afternoon, Injustice For All, or Serpico.

 

Nodding.   All of it.  This is how you know the academy has always been on some bullshit.  Pacino, the whole cast of Color Purple, they've been asleep at the wheel for years.   Anyway back to the Corleones.  I can never keep I and II straight and I want to say it's because they were made out of order?  Is that right?  Is the prequel actually II? 

 

I KNEW there had to be a find me Fabrizio moment, are you kidding?  do you know how many times I've watched this movie and thought, really? this guy doesn't make it his mission to hunt his wife's killer down like a dog?   By the way, he never tells Kay he was married before right?  That always bothered me for some reason.

 

I've still got about 3 hours to get through.  I'm gonna spend the rest of the week Zapruder'ing stuff I never saw before.  It's awesome.    I know it was you Fredo, you broke my heart.  I could eat this movie. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm not exactly sure what you're questioning here.  Carlo's abuse of Connie was a ploy to draw Sonny into a venue where one of the other families could kill him -- which eventually did happen.  Michael figured this out and confronted Carlo about it at the end of The Godfather, then had Carlo killed.  Are you questioning how Carlo could have thought the family would not eventually uncover his role in Sonny's death?  It was the same gamble that Tessio took.

 

No, I understand that Carlo was approached by Barzini, so that they could kill Sonny. And one of my favorite scenes is when Michael comes in and catches Carlo trying to call someone and tells him, that he, Michael, has settled all debts and that he has to answer for Sonny.

 

But Carlo's abuse of Connie started way before then. My thinking was, even before Carlo used Connie to draw out Sonny, that just putting his hands on Connie, or berating her, was very, very stupid of him, considering the power of the Corleones.  This was before Vito was shot and before he retired.  Unless it was his plan to marry Connie, so they could kill Vito and then later, Sonny? Which, I don't think so. 

 

 

I can never keep I and II straight and I want to say it's because they were made out of order?  Is that right?  Is the prequel actually II?

This Epic can be confusing to those who have never watched the originals. The scenes with DeNiro, were flashbacks in Godfather II, interspersed with things that were happing with Michael. To show how Vito rose to power.  But with this epic, they decided to show it as how Vito came to the United States, met Clemenz and Tessio, became the Don, then segued into the original movie, and then finished with the second movie, without the DeNiro flashbacks.  

 

Does that make sense?

Edited January 26, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[Inquisitionist]

I can never keep I and II straight and I want to say it's because they were made out of order?  Is that right?  Is the prequel actually II?

 

The Godfather is told linearly from the time of Connie's wedding shortly after then end of World War II until Michael moves the family to Nevada in the 1950s.

 

Godfather II picks up a few years later, but intersperses the "current story" about Michael Corleone with flashbacks to how Vito Andolini from Corleone became the Godfather.

[ZaldamoWilder]

I just finished watching last night, the nearly 3 hours of the special features in the bluray of Godfather, Godfather II, Godfather III, and I found it very interesting how the suits, who hated Brando, didn't want him in the picture; didn't like Pacino, and wanted Redford or Ryan O'Neal to play Michael! I read the book, and to be honest, I don't remember Michael being described as a tall, blond, Northern Sicilian! And I'm really anal when it comes to physical descriptions in books. Then again, I'd just seen Godfather for the fourth or fifth time, and just imagined Brando, Pacino, Keaton, Caan, etc., while reading the book. I do remember how the book described Vito as homely and not attractive at all. But ugh. The movie would have failed spectacularly if Redford or O'Neal had played Michael.  They even had Caan test for Michael's role; and DeNiro even tested for Sonny! But it didn't work, and they knew they'd use DeNiro to play a young Vito.  And it wasn't until they saw the scene where Michael kills Sollozo and McKluskey, that the suits were convinced that Pacino should remain as Michael.  And I guess Paramount had problems with Brando, which is why they didn't want him. The movie almost wasn't made. Coppola had to fight for everything, poor guy. And I love how they tried to say that the last movie was the coup de grace to the whole saga; that it wasn't as bad as folks made it out to be. And the selected scenes they showed? If I hadn't already seen it, I would probably want to see it, heh. The worst of that last movie was I couldn't get past the incesty storyline, that of Vincent (Andy Garcia), Sonny's son from that bridesmaid Sonny was banging in the first movie, and Mary, Michael's daughter, who were first cousins! blech.

 

 

It wasn't as bad, it was much much worse.   That whole kissing cousins storyline was ridiculous.  Sure I could go for gangsters having a very small circle of people whom they can trust, but c'mon.

[Inquisitionist]

But Carlo's abuse of Connie started way before then. My thinking was, even before Carlo used Connie to draw out Sonny, that just putting his hands on Connie, or berating her, was very, very stupid of him, considering the power of the Corleones.  This was before Vito was shot and before he retired.  Unless it was his plan to marry Connie, so they could kill Vito and then later, Sonny? Which, I don't think so.

 

I don't believe we saw Carlo with Connie before their wedding as The Godfather begins with that event.  So it seems plausible to me that all the abuse we saw came after Barzini approached him (which could have occurred even before the wedding).  Am I forgetting an abuse scene that occurred before Connie and Carlo were married?

[ZaldamoWilder]

 

No, I understand that Carlo was approached by Barzini, so that they could kill Sonny. And one of my favorite scenes is when Michael comes in and catches Carlo trying to call someone and tells him, that he, Michael, has settled all debts and that he has to answer for Sonny.

 

But Carlo's abuse of Connie started way before then. My thinking was, even before Carlo used Connie to draw out Sonny, that just putting his hands on Connie, or berating her, was very, very stupid of him, considering the power of the Corleones.  This was before Vito was shot and before he retired.  Unless it was his plan to marry Connie, so they could kill Vito and then later, Sonny? Which, I don't think so. 

 

 

This Epic can be confusing to those who have never watched the originals. The scenes with DeNiro, were flashbacks in Godfather II, interspersed with things that were happing with Michael. To show how Vito rose to power.  But with this epic, they decided to show it as how Vito came to the United States, met Clemenz and Tessio, became the Don, then segued into the original movie, and then finished with the second movie, without the DeNiro flashbacks.  

 

Does that make sense?

 

perfect sense.  I saw the originals.  Still messy to me. 

 

The Godfather is told linearly from the time of Connie's wedding shortly after then end of World War II until Michael moves the family to Nevada in the 1950s.

 

Godfather II picks up a few years later, but intersperses the "current story" about Michael Corleone with flashbacks to how Vito Andolini from Corleone became the Godfather.

 

You guys are trying so hard to explain this, bless your hearts.  Lemme show you how it looks in my head.

 

Godfather II was actually filmed first, then the movie that was titled Godfather I and is probably considered the prequel (the one in flashbacks) was made second.  Am I closer?

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't believe we saw Carlo with Connie before their wedding as The Godfather begins with that event.  So it seems plausible to me that all the abuse we saw came after Barzini approached him (which could have occurred even before the wedding).  Am I forgetting an abuse scene that occurred before Connie and Carlo were married?

 

Well, in this Epic, they showed a scene, where they were all eating or something, and Vito was there (this was before he was shot), and Carlo told Connie to shut up or something.  Vito told Sonny not to interfere.   Carlo said it again, after Vito was shot, and this time, Comare told Sonny not to interfere. Which made me think that Carlo started the verbal abuse at least, after they got married.

 

perfect sense.  I saw the originals.  Still messy to me. 

 

 

You guys are trying so hard to explain this, bless your hearts.  Lemme show you how it looks in my head.

 

Godfather II was actually filmed first, then the movie that was titled Godfather I and is probably considered the prequel (the one in flashbacks) was made second.  Am I closer?

 

Nope. Godfather I was written and made first. After DeNiro tested for Sonny and it didn't work out, they knew they wanted to use him to play a young Vito for the next movie, which I think, they knew they wanted to do. Everything was up in the air, because Coppola thought he'd be fired any day, and that the first movie would never be made.

Edited January 26, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[Inquisitionist]

Godfather II was actually filmed first, then the movie that was titled Godfather I and is probably considered the prequel (the one in flashbacks) was made second.  Am I closer?

 

 

There was no movie called Godfather I, it was simply The Godfather, same as the pulp novel on which it was based.  That movie began with Vito Corleone at the height of his powers and unfolded to show how Michael, the son he wanted to keep out of the family business, ended up succeeding him.

 

A few years later, Godfather II was filmed, including the "flashback" scenes that showed Robert De Niro as the "young" Vito Corleone.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Inquisitionist

[ZaldamoWilder]

There was no movie called Godfather I, it was simply The Godfather, same as the pulp novel on which it was based.  That movie began with Vito Corleone at the height of his powers and unfolded to show how Michael, the son he wanted to keep out of the family business, ended up succeeding him.

 

A few years later, Godfather II was filmed, including the "flashback" scenes that showed Robert De Niro as the "young" Vito Corleone.

 

Lol!  Better.  This I can grasp.

[Inquisitionist]

 

Well, in this Epic, they showed a scene, where they were all eating or something, and Vito was there (this was before he was shot), and Carlo told Connie to shut up or something.  Vito told Sonny not to interfere.   Carlo said it again, after Vito was shot, and this time, Comare told Sonny not to interfere. Which made me think that Carlo started the verbal abuse at least, after they got married.

 

 

OK, you're questioning why Carlo would foolishly (in your opinion) berate Connie in front of her father when he was still in power, is that right?  It could have been a long game in that Barzini figured Vito wouldn't be around forever or that an opportunity to take Sonny out even while Vito was in power was a good move.   If Carlo was just acting on his own at this point, I agree that it seems a bit reckless. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

OK, you're questioning why Carlo would foolishly (in your opinion) berate Connie in front of her father when he was still in power, is that right?  It could have been a long game in that Barzini figured Vito wouldn't be around forever or that an opportunity to take Sonny out even while Vito was in power was a good move.   If Carlo was just acting on his own at this point, I agree that it seems a bit reckless. 

 

Yes! Exactly.  Not that I dwell on this part, because the rest of the movie is so engaging, but it did strike me, how, in my opinion, Carlo could be so stupid. Assuming it wasn't a long game, which I don't think he was smart enough to think of.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh no!  Tessio has finally passed. I'll miss you, Sally!

[Inquisitionist]

Oh no!  Tessio has finally passed. I'll miss you, Sally!

 

Abe Vigoda lived to be 94 -- that's quite a run!  I love the scene in The Godfather where he explains how they can hide a gun for Michael at the restaurant to take out Capt. McCloskey and "the Turk."  RIP, Abe/Tessio/Fish.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay, doesn't anyone do research anymore? Tessio was killed at the end of the first movie!

 

In the above article, it states:

 

Earlier, Coppola had hired Vigoda during an open call audition (for actors without an agent). The Godfather (1972) was Vigoda’s first movie. For betraying Don Corleone (Marlon Brando), his character is sent to “sleep with the fishes” in a Godfather: Part II flashback scene.

[benteen]

RIP, Abe Vigoda.  He lived a good, long life.

[benteen]

On the subject of Carlo and Connie, in the book Carlo was beating her up starting on the night they got married.  The Don knew about it but inexplicably didn't do anything about it because he felt he couldn't interfere with what was going on between a man and his wife.  That never made any sense to me.  In the book, Connie told her parents what Carlo did but the Don's answer was pretty much listen to your husband.  Mama Corleone did privately ask the Don about doing something but he wouldn't.  Again, it didn't make any sense to me and I think would just make him look weak.  Not doing anything about Carlo is what led to Sonny being killed in the first place.

[VCRTracking]

Tessio's final scene is so great. "Tom can you get me off the hook? For old times sake?"  Hagen: "Can't do it Sally."

 

Carlo probably married Connie just to get involved with the family business and was frustrated immediately because on the day of his wedding when Tom suggested to the Don "You're new son-in-law. We give him something important?" and he responds "Never. Give him a living, but never discuss the family business with him." So I think Carlo got angry that he didn't get what he wanted and taking it out on Connie. The novel has more about it. Wikipedia:

Described in the novel as "a punk sore at the world", he is resentful of the Corleones' treatment of him. He regularly beats up and cheats on Connie as a means of exerting his own power over the Corleone family. When Connie eventually complains to her parents, Vito coldly refuses to intervene, presumably to punish her for her poor choice in a husband. In truth, Vito is enraged by Rizzi's behavior, but he feels powerless to act because Italian tradition forbids a father from interfering with a daughter's marriage. However, Connie's brothers Sonny, Fredo and Michael grow to despise Rizzi for how he treats her; Vito has to forcibly restrain Sonny from intervening.

 

Another thing the novel has is they show Clemenza's men dealing with the two guys who disfigured and tried to rape Bonasera's daughter. It's very satisfying in a revenge way as these too rich white assholes get the shit beat out of them.

Edited January 26, 2016 by VCRTracking

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh! And I totally didn't recognize Troy Donahue as Merle, Connie's husband number...?

[ulkis]

re: Carlo, Connie, and Vito, in the book, wasn't there something about Vito was kinda thinking about doing something about Carlo but then Connie became pregnant and after that that pretty much decided it for Vito that the kid had to have a father, so he couldn't do anything. He loved Connie, but he was still an old-fashioned man. A very old-fashioned, violent man. And Connie was pretty high spirited, Vito probably thought Connie was provoking Carlo at first.

[VCRTracking]

Well also Connie still loved Carlo despite everything and was hysterical and yelling at Michael after he had him killed. Then in the beginning of Part II we see she's become a cheap floozy taking up with and marrying men like Merle as a way of getting back at Michael.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, I just got done watching Godfather II on my bluray and boo! No scene of Connie regretting marrying Merle. And no scene of Fabrizio getting his just deserts! So it would seem this HBO special neglected to add in two or three scenes that I know I saw in the USA Godfather Saga that aired years ago. Bad HBO! Boo! Hiss!

 

And now, I must pull out my copy of The Godfather and commence reading.

[ulkis]

Well also Connie still loved Carlo despite everything and was hysterical and yelling at Michael after he had him killed. Then in the beginning of Part II we see she's become a cheap floozy taking up with and marrying men like Merle as a way of getting back at Michael.

True, but by the time he gets killed he had been acted like a decent husband towards Connie.

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 2016-01-27 at 0:49 AM, ulkis said:

True, but by the time he gets killed he had been acted like a decent husband towards Connie.

Probably because to keep suspicion off of him for Sonny's murder, and Barzini probably gave him the order to be the perfect husband.

But I don't think too much about it, because really, I found Michael so much more fascinating as well as his journey of becoming the next Don. Pacino was just amazing.

On a purely shallow note, I find Caan sexy, but maaan, the hair I could see peeking out on his back just grossed me out. And Pacino really looked younger than his age when he made the first movie. I thought he was in his 20's, but he was 30. Not sure why he started aging not so well. Was it the smoking? Because his teeth went from pearly white to this yellowish tinge. But it still love him.

I told you I was being shallow!!!!

[ulkis]

Probably because to keep suspicion off of him for Sinny's murder, and Barzini probably gave him the order to be the perfect husband.

Same reason, different people. Michael and Tom told him to shape up in the book.

[benteen]

True, but by the time he gets killed he had been acted like a decent husband towards Connie.

 

According to the book, he still had a mistress on the side but seemed like he was hiding it pretty well.  After Sonny's death, Tom called him up and pretty much told him he needed to get his shit together.

 

One of the most interesting chapters in the Godfather book tells exactly how Michael was able to end his Sicilian exile.

[revbfc]

Does anybody think that things would have worked out better for Fredo if he had confided in Michael when he got to Havana, or right after the assassination attempt in Tahoe?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Does anybody think that things would have worked out better for Fredo if he had confided in Michael when he got to Havana, or right after the assassination attempt in Tahoe?

 

I don't think so. I mean, I'm not even sure when he started resenting Michael to the point where he was "so mad" at him, like he told him, and agreed to...whatever it was he agreed to. I believed Fredo when he said he didn't know it was going to be a hit put out on Michael.  But I wonder if the resentment/anger started after Mo Green was killed.  We saw how he brown-nosed up to Mo, and Mo "slapped him around" even if it was because Fredo was "banging the waitresses" or whatever.  Maybe if he went to Michael when he was first approached?

 

As for the whole Carlo issue, I like the way the movie handled it, instead of Tom telling him to get his shit together, etc. It just made that final scene between Michael and Carlo all that more delicious...with Michael's "Oh, that farce you played with my sister..." or making Carlo think he would escape unscathed, when Michael told him calmly, did Carlo think Michael would make his own sister a widow? And I'm yelling, Yes! Yes!

 

I remember watching the first movie for the first time, with my Dad. Back when the movie first came out, he was an usher at the movie theatre (he'd recently immigrated to the States) and he watched this movie a LOT. So when we watched it together when I was a teen, he told me how Michael was going to clean the slate. From that time on, my dad and I always went to the movies together. And watching this epic made me think of him and I called him this morning to tell him about it, heh. 

Edited January 27, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[ZaldamoWilder]

Does anybody think that things would have worked out better for Fredo if he had confided in Michael when he got to Havana, or right after the assassination attempt in Tahoe?

 

Yeah, I doubt it.  I think Michael could've gotten past the betrayal, but Fredo was a combination of limited intelligence, no foresight and untrustworthiness.  He couldn't even get the gun out of his pocket good when Vito was attacked.  One of those was dangerous to a man in Michael's position, all three were fatal.   Another example of the brilliant layering of this story telling.  The climax of this relationship was unavoidable, but it went back further than Vegas.  We see how Vito's realizations about each of his sons influences his decision about who best to lead the family.  So by the time Fredo is mixed up in the mess we remember every slight he does and understand exactly how he got there.  It's just a beautifully told story.    What I want to know about that is why nobody ever wonders, cries, blames, carries on about what happened to Fredo?  Tom knows.  Kaye is being annoyingly naive, but Connie never brings it up?  Not so much as a shoulder shrug?  lol.  

 

 

I don't think so. I mean, I'm not even sure when he started resenting Michael to the point where he was "so mad" at him, like he told him, and agreed to...whatever it was he agreed to. I believed Fredo when he said he didn't know it was going to be a hit put out on Michael.  But I wonder if the resentment/anger started after Mo Green was killed.  We saw how he brown-nosed up to Mo, and Mo "slapped him around" even if it was because Fredo was "banging the waitresses" or whatever.  Maybe if he went to Michael when he was first approached?

 

As for the whole Carlo issue, I like the way the movie handled it, instead of Tom telling him to get his shit together, etc. It just made that final scene between Michael and Carol all that more delicious...with Michael's "Oh, that farce you played with my sister..." or making Carlo think he would escape unscathed, when Michael told him calmly, did Carlo think Michael would make his own sister a widow? And I'm yelling, Yes! Yes!

 

I remember watching the first movie for the first time, with my Dad. Back when the movie first came out, he was an usher at the movie theatre (he'd recently immigrated to the States) and he watched this movie a LOT. So when we watched it together when I was a teen, he told me how Michael was going to clean the slate. From that time on, my dad and I always went to the movies together. And watching this epic made me think of him and I called him this morning to tell him about it, heh. 

 

I hadn't noticed until my bf commented on it but the lighting in this scene is incredible.  Half of Michael's face is in shadow, half in light.  Almost like a cinematographic juxtaposition between "why would I hurt my sister like that" and "make no mistake, I am gonna kill you." 

 

That's a sweet memory Scorpios.

[revbfc]

And what about Anthony? "Hey, Dad? Remember when I was about to go fishing with Uncle Fredo, but you told me I had to go into town? Why wasn't Uncle Fredo home when we got back? Dad, be honest, there is no farm upstate where Fredos can run and play with other Fredos, is there?"

[ZaldamoWilder]

^^ LMAO!!! 

 

I'm embarrassed to admit that I thought Abe Vigoda died years ago.  May he rest in peace.

 

You know what I just found out from my sister?  Moe Green (Alex Rocco) was a real life lightweight gangster...?  I was like whaaaaat?  she said yeah look it up.   Sure enough, the guy set off some Boston Irish Mafia war in the 60s. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Not only that, but Rocco did an Audi commercial that was a spoof on the dead horse from the first movie! Instead of the horse, he screams when he finds the engine in his bed, and he's covered with engine oil/grease!