All Episodes Talk: Breadstix

[jaytee1812]

But none of those people were portrayed as a 'good guy' we were meant to route for, except maybe Blaine or Brittany.

We were meant to feel sorry for Artie when Tina upgraded, we were meant to think what Puck and Quinn did was awful, we were meant to hate Jake for cheating on Marley.

We're meant to think Sam is a good guy.

[camussie]

I wouldn't say he is worse (except for his reaction to Ryder being molested.  That was heinous).  I would say he is on par with about everyone.  After all he was trying to convince Mercedes to cheat on him with Shane and in fact kissed her while she was with Shane.  But, I agree to say he is horrible is not accurate.  

 

we were meant to think what Puck and Quinn did was awful,

 

 

While they acknowledge what they did was bad I felt like they really downplayed it a lot.  Will never even confronted Quinn about her role is his baby lie and because Glee wanted to move on Finn was seen to be over what Quinn/Puck did once the back 9 picked up.  There should have been so much more fall-out from all of that but the Glee writers had plot point to write.  

Edited February 2, 2015 by camussie

[Craphole Island]

Right, I don't think he's perfect or anything but by Glee standards, I'd say he's one of the closest things we have to a good person, along with Mike, Mercedes and maybe Tina before they turned her into a raging psycho.

[jaytee1812]

Right, I don't think he's perfect or anything but by Glee standards, I'd say he's one of the closest things we have to a good person, along with Mike, Mercedes and maybe Tina before they turned her into a raging psycho.

I think he's one of the worst characters because he thinks he's a good guy.

The other characters who have done bad things don't think they're good people for it. Sam thought he was being a good guy chasing Mercedes in season 3, one, she told him not to, two, he thought he knew better than her what she wanted. That's not the mark of a good guy.

[Craphole Island]

But didn't she want it? She sang about it quite a few times. (I don't disagree with your point, though.)

[camussie]

Right, I don't think he's perfect or anything but by Glee standards, I'd say he's one of the closest things we have to a good person, along with Mike, Mercedes and maybe Tina before they turned her into a raging psycho.

 

 

I think he is about the same as the rest save Mike who is the best of the lot.  No better or worse.  Much like Finn convinced Quinn to cheat, Sam did the same with Mercedes in regards to Shane so I don't get how Sam is a better guy than Finn.   Puck would be towards the bottom.  He participated in cheating with a girlfriend of Finn's twice.  Sure he stopped it with Rachel but after the first time, which included a paternity lie,  I thought it was pretty heinous to go even close to that again yet there was no fallout for him from that.  Nor from banging Rachel's mom.  

 

That is why it perplexes me when I read that Finn was a terrible friend to Puck.  If anything, in my mind it was the other way around and Finn was way too forgiving of Puck.  I still think if Glee approached anything close to reality after the Rachel thing in s2 Finn should have been done with Puck for good.  

Edited February 3, 2015 by camussie

[jaytee1812]

But didn't she want it? She sang about it quite a few times. (I don't disagree with your point, though.)

 

I think she was into Sam but she told him not to pursue it and he ignored her, which is a dick move.

 

I think he is about the same as the rest save Mike who is the best of the lot.  No better or worse.  Much like Finn convinced Quinn to cheat, Sam did the same with Mercedes in regards to Shane.   Puck would be towards the bottom.  He participated in cheating with a girlfriend of Finn's twice.  Sure he stopped it with Rachel but after the first time, which included a paternity lie,  I thought it was pretty heinous to go even close to that again yet there was no fallout for him from that.  

 

That is why it perplexes me when I read that Finn was a terrible friend to Puck.  If anything, in my mind it was the other way around and Finn was way too forgiving of Puck.  I still think if Glee approached anything close to reality after the Rachel thing in s2 Finn should have been done with Puck for good.

To me Puck was always portrayed as a dick, a loveable one, but a dick nonetheless. Sam's suppose to be a good guy. I always thought Finn was portrayed somewhere in the middle.

Canon's a bit blurry on this but didn't Tina and Mike start dating before she dumped Artie?

[Hana Chan]

Yes, Tina and Artie were still a couple when she got involved with Mike at Asian Camp. She had been growing unhappy with Artie, but they were still officially together at the time.

[spiritof76]

 

I think she was into Sam but she told him not to pursue it and he ignored her, which is a dick move.

Oh yeah, Mercedes was into it. No doubt. And to be fair when Sam and Mercedes did finally kiss after the end of "Human Nature" Mercedes felt awful about it. She eventually told Shane. And when she told Sam, she told him she couldn't be with him, because even though she loved him, cheating wasn't who she was, and she needed to get herself together first. With all of the cheating that went on, on this show is was refreshing to see someone so torn up about it (even if that kiss she and Sam had, was the most chaste "cheating kiss" ever). Mercedes felt like she had violated whatever her own moral code was and even though it hurt her (and hurt Sam) and we got that lovely "I Will Always Love You" out of it, she walked away from him at the time. 

[KatWay]

 

But didn't she want it? She sang about it quite a few times.

 

I just had to say this made me laugh, because it's so accurate and yet so hilarious if you picture it coming up in a normal conversation. Oh, Glee.

[SNeaker]

.  

 

That is why it perplexes me when I read that Finn was a terrible friend to Puck. 

 

Who the heck says that? Finn had many (frustratingly unacknowledged) flaws, but not being a good friend to Puck wasn't one of them.

[camussie]

Over the years I have read by some people on a few message boards and it always brought me up short because I always felt that Finn went above and beyond with Puck by just forgiving him for the baby lie and then forgiving him again after the Rachel thing (or rather not even getting mad at him over the Rachel thing which should have been a huge deal between them given what had come before).  

Edited February 3, 2015 by camussie

[jaytee1812]

Who one finds enjoyable as a singer is subjective.  I happen to like all of the current newbies' voices with perhaps the exception of gay jock (so far he's just meh, but he hasn't sung much.) Your preference for voices is different from mine, and that is fine, as I said it is subjective.

 

As to carbon copies, I don't see a Finn-lite, a Puck-lite, a Kurt-lite, a new Rachel, etc. etc.every time one of the newbies appears on screen like I did with Jake, Ryder, Marley etc.  Kitty perhaps is a combo of Quinn & Santana (and she was from the first set of copy cat newbies), but aside from that I'm not constantly thinking about the originals when the newbies are on screen and comparing them. For me that is a good thing, They don't have enough screen time (and won't due to the shortness of the season) so it's unlikely I'll get bored with them like I did the first lot of newbies.

 

I understand that you want more racial representation, but just be thankful there isn't.  Glee manages to be so disrespectful towards anyone who isn't a "masculine gay male" that you should count it as a blessing.

 

I think it's not a matter of characterisation, but timing. Had this lot been cast in season 4 we would've had some of the same complaint. Straight Blaine, gay Sam, or gay Sam (what is his name?) would've been compared to Finn. The incest twin female cheerleader wouldn't have been compared to anyone obviously because she has no identifying characteristics and Jane would've been called a thin Mercedes* and I'm blanking on the other guys name, the one who's suppose to sound like Otis Redding, would've been called a fat Kurt. 

 

If you brought in the season 4 newbies now they wouldn't get the same criticism because they wouldn't be the reason most people are getting to see their favourites, because the new Rachel, Puck, Finn, and whoever Unique was suppose to be, never held up to scrutiny. Show me one characteristics Marley and Rachel have in common, Jake and Puck share a surname, nothing else, Finn and Ryder were both football players, what else? Kitty was suppose to be like Quinn, deliberately, she idolised her. But the people they were replacing have been gone for mostly two seasons now, their fans are over it. And the Kurt/Rachel fans who complained about newbie screen time over them don't have that complaint anymore. 

 

I might object to the way Glee writes race but that's still better than the complete whitewash of the male cast. And the fact it only took getting rid of two actors to do it!

 

*I am well aware these two women have nothing in common except being black. but she would've still been compared to Mercedes. 

[SNeaker]

If you brought in the season 4 newbies now they wouldn't get the same criticism because they wouldn't be the reason most people are getting to see their favourites, because the new Rachel, Puck, Finn, and whoever Unique was suppose to be, never held up to scrutiny. Show me one characteristics Marley and Rachel have in common, Jake and Puck share a surname, nothing else, Finn and Ryder were both football players, what else? Kitty was suppose to be like Quinn, deliberately, she idolised her. But the people they were replacing have been gone for mostly two seasons now, their fans are over it. And the Kurt/Rachel fans who complained about newbie screen time over them don't have that complaint anymore.

 

Marley and Rachel were both doe eyed brunettes who were bullied in part because of their "embarassing" parents. They had no friends but big dreams and were treated as the show's romantic leads. Granted, Marley had all of the personality of a wet dishrag and could not be compared to Rachel, but the archetype was the same. She was introduced and shown off in an episodes literally called "The New Rachel."

 

Jake and Puck -- let's see, both guitar playing, womanizing bad boys with chips on their shoulders and abandonment/daddy issues who had to be convinced to join Glee Club and were all about sex. One got his best friend's girlfriend pregnant while the other one cheated on his girlfriend for not putting out (and I believe had a brief pregnancy scare as well?) And they literally have the same last name.

 

Unique/Mercedes -- sassy black divas. Brittany couldn't tell them apart.

 

Ryder -- all American jock boy who's bad at school. Taken under Finn's wing.

 

Ryan Murphy admitted it, so I'm not really sure what there is to deny here.

Edited February 4, 2015 by SNeaker

[jaytee1812]

Marley and Rachel were both doe eyed brunettes who were bullied in part because of their "embarassing" parents. They had no friends but big dreams and who were treated as the show's romantic leads. Granted, Marley had all of the personality of a wet dishrag and could not be compared to Rachel, but the archetype was the same. She was introduced and shown off in an episodes literally called "The New Rachel."

 

Jake and Puck -- let's see, both guitar playing, womanizing bad boys with chips on their shoulders and abandonment/daddy issues who had to be convinced to join Glee Club and were all about sex. One got his best friend's girlfriend pregnant while the other one cheated on his girlfriend for not putting out (and I believe had a brief pregnancy scare as well?) And they literally have the same last name.

 

Unique/Mercedes -- sassy black divas. Brittany couldn't tell them apart.

 

Ryder -- all American jock boy who's bad at school. Taken under Finn's wing.

 

Brittany couldn't tell Unique and Mercedes apart because she's a racist piece of shit. 

 

Ryder wasn't bad at school, he was dyslexic. and he had two conversation with Finn. 

 

Jake played the guitar once, he was never a bully, actually he's shown being bullied Puck never had Daddy issues. And neither was all about sex. As far as we know Jake never has sex til season 5, in the show's most racist storyline so far. I'm not sure how the getting Quinn pregnant thing connects to Jake. 

 

Marley and Rachel have nothing in common. Rachel has never been doe-eyed in her life, Marley never had big dreams. The female incest twin looks more like a Rachel than Marley. 

[dizzyizzy01]

Who is even supposed to be Straight Blaine or Gay Sam?

Edited February 3, 2015 by dizzyizzy01

[fakeempress]

 

Ryder wasn't bad at school, he was dyslexic. and he had two conversation with Finn.

Details that were forgotten as soon as the story was done.

 

However, there is a trend. Sam, Ryder, gay Spencer are all variations of the Finn archetype, with diminishing returns. That's why (and also he's a mediocre singer) the only newbie I don't have an interest to get more about is Spencer. 

 

Quinn, Santana, Kitty, Brie - the archetype of the bitchy cheerleader who joins the GC as a fifth column but ends up liking it. The Cheerio Twins aren't in this archetype so I like them, and their voices are better, with the exception of Santana.

 

Jane - ? I see something of Rachel in her determination and talent, but also something different (eta: of Kurt) as she's a team player. So far isn't developed. Also a good voice.

Edited February 3, 2015 by fakeempress

[tom87]

Rachel v Marley.

 

It wasn't really about looks, dreams or personality but they were suppose to the brunette girl so automatically not the popular blond.  The 2.0  comparison was that Marley was tapped to be the female lead of that narrative ergo the New Rachel.

 

It was never about being 2.0 literally but figuratively

 

Personally I think Rachel some times was pretty naive or doe eyed. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by tom87

[jaytee1812]

However, there is a trend. Sam, Ryder, gay Spencer are all variations of the Finn archetype, with diminishing returns. That's why (and also he's a mediocre singer) the only newbie I don't have an interest to get more about is Spencer. 

 

I love Finn and of that archetype my favourite is Ryder. Mostly because I could watch Blake Jenner in that choir room for hours and never get bored. His reactions are the stuff of gold. 

[Myrna123]

I think also there's a degree of fatigue--no storylines on this show ever have a satisfying, earned conclusion, nothing matters one scene to the next, traits you like about a character are completely obliterated one episode to the next then back again. By the time the first newbs were introduced, most of us knew better than to invest because whatever you might like about the character in one scene may never be witnessed again. And then it became clear they were all just lower-salaried actors playing characters we already knew, so we didn't have to invest at all. The limited shelf life of the new newbs may make them easier to tolerate as well.

[fakeempress]

I love Finn and of that archetype my favourite is Ryder. Mostly because I could watch Blake Jenner in that choir room for hours and never get bored. His reactions are the stuff of gold. 

And that's a personal preference. Some will have it, some won't. I don't, I think both Finn and Cory were miles better. But I wanted to say that he falls into the archetype, hence the 2.0 designation. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by fakeempress

[camussie]

I agree that whether the characters were the same the show pushed them as 2.0's.  That said it was Blaine who won the contest in "The New Rachel."  Then again I would say in s4, at least when it came to the choir room, Blaine was the one written to be the successor to both Finn & Rachel.  He was both of them rolled up into one - the lead singer and the guy whose found a way for everyone to work together.   Them combining the two lead roles at McKinley into one, that Blaine inhabited, is why Glee seemed to become the Blee/Blam show in s4.

 

I love Finn and of that archetype my favourite is Ryder. Mostly because I could watch Blake Jenner in that choir room for hours and never get bored. His reactions are the stuff of gold.

 

 

I personally both Blake and Cory were awesome at the background character stuff.  Same with Dianna which is somewhat surprising because I find her to be a limited actress in many ways.  Still those three never seemed to break character when they were merely background in a scene and I appreciated that.  

Edited February 3, 2015 by camussie

[jaytee1812]

And that's a personal preference. Some will have it, some won't. I don't, I think both Finn and Cory were miles better. But I wanted to say that he falls into the archetype. 

 

I think I worded that wrong, I love Finn, and of the others I love Ryder, mostly because I could watch Blake Jenner for hours. 

[SNeaker]

Puck never had Daddy issues.

 

I'm sorry, what?

 

As far as we know Jake never has sex til season 5

 

I'm sorry, what?

 

And neither was all about sex.

 

I'm sorry, what?!?

 

You don't think there's anything to connect about the fact that Jake cheated on his girlfriend (whom he couldn't deal with not putting out) and almost got the girl he cheated with pregnant and Puck cheating with his best friend's girlfriend and actually getting her pregnant? Nothing? No parallel?

 

So they made slight tweaks to the characters so they weren't exactly the same. Marley wanted to be a recording artist while Rachel wanted Broadway and Puck was a bully while Jake was a dancer. So I guess they were nothing alike and in no way fulfilled the same archetype despite the dozens of other things they had in common and blatant parallels on the show.

 

Brittany couldn't tell Unique and Mercedes apart because she's a racist piece of shit.

 

Brittany also thinks Kitty is Quinn. Do you think she's racist against hot blonde cheerleaders? Oy va voy, a self-hating hot blonde cheerleader...

Edited February 3, 2015 by SNeaker

[jaytee1812]

Brittany also thinks Kitty is Quinn. Do you think she's racist against hot blonde cheerleaders? Oy va voy, a self-hating hot blonde cheerleader...

 

I'd forgotten they'd put that in after they were accused of being racist. 

 

Didn't Amber complain about the Unique being called Mercedes thing?

[Ceeg]

I don't think anyone is saying that Marley is literally another Rachel, or that Jake is literally another Noah Puckerman. But, they are both playing similar archetypes to Rachel and Puck.

 

Contrast that with the new crop of noobs, and you can't really say any of them are archetypes of 1.0 characters. 

 

Also, re: Brittany, she's ALWAYS mistaken who is who. In the Prom episode, she called that random girl on the committee Rachel, because she was a mousy brunette. And she thought Joe was a girl. And she didn't recognize Puck when he shaved his head.

[camussie]

I would agree they were the same archetypes but out of all of them i felt Marley being Rachel 2.0 was the biggest stretch.  Their personalities didn't seem to be the same at all which is why the show pushing that always seemed off to me.  

 

As for Brittany I agree it wasn't meant to be seen as racist.  I just loathe that she did so many heinous things (including outing Santana twice before Santana/Finn argued in that hallway) and it was all blow off because  she is just poor dumb Brittany.  For most of her time of the show, especially seasons 2 and 3,  she was written as a less abrasive Becky i.e. a character who could say or do the most awful things and no one would blink.

Edited February 3, 2015 by camussie

[jaytee1812]

I don't think anyone is saying that Marley is literally another Rachel, or that Jake is literally another Noah Puckerman. But, they are both playing similar archetypes to Rachel and Puck.

 

Contrast that with the new crop of noobs, and you can't really say any of them are archetypes of 1.0 characters. 

 

Also, re: Brittany, she's ALWAYS mistaken who is who. In the Prom episode, she called that random girl on the committee Rachel, because she was a mousy brunette. And she thought Joe was a girl. And she didn't recognize Puck when he shaved his head.

 

I guess they got round that with the new newbies by not giving them personalities or storylines. 

 

I take your point about Brittany, what's Rachel's excuse?

[tom87]

I would agree they were the same archetypes but out of all of them i felt Marley being Rachel 2.0 was the biggest stretch.  Their personalities didn't seem to be the same at all which is why the show pushing that always seemed off to me.  

 The show was pushing her as the female lead.  Which meant Rachel 2.0.

[spiritof76]

 

Didn't Amber complain about the Unique being called Mercedes thing?

She most certainly did. That whole Unique/Mercedes thing was so problematic, in so many ways.

 

 

As for Brittany I agree it wasn't meant to be seen as racist.

Oh I agree it wasn't meant to be seen as racist. Nothing Glee does is meant to been seen as racist/homophobic/transphobic/sexist, etc. But despite them not meaning it that way, it was received that way by some.

Edited February 3, 2015 by spiritof76

[jaytee1812]

 The show was pushing her as the female lead.  Which meant Rachel 2.0.

 

That's like saying Rebecca was Diane 2.0 in Cheers when they were nothing alike. 

[SNeaker]

I take your point about Brittany, what's Rachel's excuse?

 

That the newbies were carbon copies (aka inferior versions) of the originals and she, like most of us, couldn't see them as anything else.

Edited February 3, 2015 by SNeaker

[dizzyizzy01]

When S4 started, Marley was clearly the underdog unpopular girl being picked on by the mean cheerleaders.  She even had her own brand of a love quadrangle with Jake/Ryder/Brie/Marley similar to Rachel/Finn/Puck/Santana.  It wasn't exactly the same but there were definitely similarities.

[shoregirl]

Rachel was only in the same room a handfull of times. That's including when she went to see Grease and only talked to Finn. The wedding where she only talked to Finn . Finns memorial which she understandably wasn't making small talk with people she never really met. And the episodes where they were trying to save glee club sort of.

Edited February 3, 2015 by shoregirl

[tom87]

 

I take your point about Brittany, what's Rachel's excuse?

Rachel drew the short straw and the writers wanted to use the damn line again.  Yes even though just a few episodes ago Rachel got on Spencer for calling some guy gay.   So no it doesn't make sense and no one is  arguing that the line isn't dumb and offensive.  

 

So no Amber doesn't like it nor do some of the other cast who have voiced their concerns of some of the "jokes".

Edited February 3, 2015 by tom87

[dizzyizzy01]

That the newbies were carbon copies (aka inferior versions) of the originals and she, like most of us, couldn't see them as anything else.

 

I still don't even understand why Rachel should even know them.  Why would a graduate know the names of kids that happened to join a club they used to be in, particularly since she never actually interacted with them...

[jaytee1812]

When S4 started, Marley was clearly the underdog unpopular girl being picked on by the mean cheerleaders.  She even had her own brand of a love quadrangle with Jake/Ryder/Brie/Marley similar to Rachel/Finn/Puck/Santana.  It wasn't exactly the same but there were definitely similarities.

 

You cannot compare the two long quadrangles The one is season 4/5 was quite clearly trying to say one thing: white good, black bad. They even had the black guy sing about being nasty, and the white guy sing about being innocent. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by jtrattray

[camussie]

Brie wasn't in Season 4 and Ryder didn't show up until 405.  I agree there was some shades of a quad between Marley/Jake/Kitty/Ryder but it was much more subdued.  For example I don't think Ryder/Kitty ever dated once.

 

I still don't even understand why Rachel should even know them.  Why would a graduate know the names of kids that happened to join a club they used to be in, particularly since she never actually interacted with them

 

 

I don't think she should know the name of them except Unique's given that she competed against Unique at Nationals and Unique won the MVP that year.  To me that was just OOC that Rachel didn't know her name.  

Edited February 3, 2015 by camussie

[jaytee1812]

I still don't even understand why Rachel should even know them.  Why would a graduate know the names of kids that happened to join a club they used to be in, particularly since she never actually interacted with them...

 

Weird thing is if you listen to the speech she did. Not well, but as much as you would expect for someone who's friends knew these people. 

[SNeaker]

Right. Slight tweaks, so therefore not the same at all. Ok. And not meant at all to be a parallel or variation of the same thing.

 

"Oh, this time the Rachel type really loves the Puck type and chooses him over the Finn type (who is the Puck type's best friend!) Revolutionary!"

Edited February 3, 2015 by SNeaker

[dizzyizzy01]

Brie wasn't in Season 4 and Ryder didn't show up until 405.  I agree there was some shades of a quad between Marley/Jake/Kitty/Ryder but it was much more subdued.  For example I don't think Ryder/Kitty ever dated once.  

 

 

I don't think she should know the name of them except Unique's given that she competed against Unique at Nationals and Unique won the MVP that year.  To me that was just OOC that Rachel didn't know her name.  

S4 or S5 doesn't matter.  It's still very very similar storylines and very similar character types:  unpopular girl/popular cheerleader/bad boy/popular jock boy.

 

It's also more weird, because I 'm pretty sure Rachel knew who Unique was during nationals, but oh well.  It was written for the cheap laugh, even if it wasn't very funny.

[camussie]

I agree that is the story they were pushing but I still say Marley/Rachel weren't that close to the same type which is why the show acting like they were seemed very off to me.  They really were as different to me as Rebecca and Diane were on Cheers.  Now Puck/Jake and Finn/Ryder were closer comparisons.

[spiritof76]

Rachel not knowing the newbies didn't bother me. They had already established back during the 100th episode. That's what led Santana off on her umpteenth rant against Rachel. So her not knowing exactly who they were wasn't a huge issue to me. I wasn't crazy about the way the writers had her describe them, in lieu of their names. Honestly I kind of didn't think a lot of it sounded like the type of thing Rachel would say. 

[fakeempress]

I take the 2.0 designation to mean "a version of", not literally the same. 

[camussie]

Oh I agree.  It means a version of but my point is while I saw that Jake, Kitty, and Ryder were clearly meant to be versions of Puck, Quinn, and Finn respectively I think if that is what they were going for in regards to Marley/Rachel (and it seems it was with how they pushed it) they missed the boat because, to me, their personalities and life circumstances were not that similar at all.  

Edited February 3, 2015 by camussie

[dizzyizzy01]

Oh I agree.  It means a version of but my point is while I saw that Jake, Kitty, and Ryder were clearly meant to be versions of Puck, Quinn, and Finn respectively I think if that is what they were going for in regards to Marley/Rachel (and it seems it was with how they pushed it) they missed the boat because, to me, their personalities and even life circumstances were not that similar at all.  

Well Ryder/KItty didn't have the same life circumstances as Finn/Santana/Quinn as far as we knew either.  I think Marley was Rachel without the social tone deafness and drive that made Rachel an interesting character.  She was the underdog/awkward/unpopular girl but had no bite to her personality.  

[Craphole Island]

To be honest, I think this crop of newbies was always going to have an easier time being accepted by fans than the original crop for a few reasons, but mainly because unlike the original newbs, this crop wasn't tasked with building a show around them and carrying on the Glee legacy for the next few years. People were already upset that their favorite characters were mostly written out of the show, and then these (seemingly carbon copy) new characters came to take the spotlight from already established, beloved characters. Not only that, but they weren't even interacting with the MAIN leads (ie. Rachel and Kurt, because at the time the rest of McKinley aside from Blaine were supporting. Well, they did have Finn as well, I forgot.), so that didn't help things either. These new characters now are just glorified extras who get to sing a little bit and actually interact with the main players and aren't expected to carry on this show for many years to come, because it's ending in 8 episodes.

 

I just think the original newbies had an uphill battle no matter what. And it didn't help that their general personas paralleled that of many of the original characters (some that were still on the show, even interacting with them). 

 

For what it's worth, I actually liked the original newbies for the most part, so I'm not saying this as some hater. I just think even if these new newbs were another set of carbon copies, they'd have an easier time because we aren't expected to invest in them the way we were the original newbies.

 

Hopefully that makes sense.

[camussie]

McKinley, especially after the holiday break, was Blaine and Blaine/Sam overload.  Sam wasn't quite the lead Blaine was but I feel he also wasn't supporting either.  I still am perplexed that Blam! became the most focused on relationship in the entire dang show for 2/3 of season 4.  What makes that all the more strange is they knew Blaine, at least, had a shelf life at McKinley (with the extended school year that was going to be the middle of S5 ) so it seemed to work against their purpose of trying to keep McKinley viable for years to come to revolve that narrative around a character that was leaving sooner rather than later.  

[Craphole Island]

McKinley, especially after the holiday break, was Blaine and Blaine/Sam overload.  Sam wasn't quite the lead Blaine was but I feel he also wasn't supporting either.  I still am perplexed that Blam! became the most focused on relationship in the entire dang show for 2/3 of season 4.  What makes that all the more strange is they knew Blaine, at least, had a shelf life at McKinley (with the extended school year that was going to be the middle of S5 ) so it seemed to work against their purpose of trying to keep McKinley viable for years to come to revolve that narrative around a character that was leaving sooner rather than later.  

Sorry, to clarify, I meant when the original season 4 newbies were introduced, Sam was considered a supporting character up until that point. Throughout the season, he moved into "lead" status. I guess basically I meant they weren't interacting so much with Kurt, Rachel, and Santana specifically (arguably 3 of the most popular characters, along with Blaine and Finn).

Edited February 3, 2015 by Craphole Island

[Glorfindel]

I take the 2.0 designation to mean "a version of", not literally the same. 

This. There were some variations and differences, but also many similarites, which imo made the season 4 kids all slightly altered versions (as to not be too obvious) of the original kids. Even the showrunners acknowledged it several times with meta on the show.

 

And to take it a step beyond just the new kids of season 4: I always thought Marley's mom was Burt 2.0, as in being a supportive parent of a bullied kid.