Cagney & Lacey - General Discussion

[DXD526]

I remember at the time how they decided to keep Sidney Clute in the credits after his death, as a tribute. Nice that LaGuardia got to retire to a life of leisure with his girlfriend.

I had forgotten all about Newman, but as soon as he showed up, I suddenly remembered everything about his character. I felt so bad for him in that Santa Claus episode, where he and Chris went undercover. Poor kid, pining away for the sergeant who barely knows he's alive. Chris can be quite selfish and clueless, when she puts her mind to it. 

So, when is Marybeth going to drop that medicine ball of a baby? It seems like she's been pregnant for a couple of years. She's on maternity leave and out of action much longer than I remembered. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Getting ready to watch the episodes that aired last night...and FINALLY! Mary Beth gives birth in the final and third episode!

I really liked "Acts of Conscience" and I won't lie, I think I squeed when I saw who was playing Detective Lowell--My very own ADA Ben Stone! Michael Moriarty! A good 8 years before he went cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs and five years before I'd see him in the original Law & Order.

I'm wondering if the cops still feel and act the way they do when another cop breaks the "blue wall."  This show wasn't that too far in the future for cops, New York cops, to not know or hear about Serpico. So I was incensed on Lowell's behalf at the way he was being treated, and sort of surprised at Christine, actually. Considering how upset she got when she learned Charlie was sort of on the take during his beat cop days. I'm glad that Mary Beth, at least, didn't see him as some Benedict Arnold or Judas. 

So I did love when Lowell finally let Christine have it, about how he was glad he spilled his guts to the press, considering her behavior and attitude was no different than the cops at his precinct.

Going back to the previous episode, "The Rapist," I'm wondering why it was a "Part I" since there was no follow up to it in "Acts of Conscience," which was the very next episode.  I wonder if the rapist she killed, Brown, actually was the same guy that had raped her?

Ahhh, puberty. It's turning Harvey, Junior into an annoying brat, who I want to slap upside the head.

Edited June 28, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[DXD526]

I love the opening of this show. The theme music is classic, and some of the shots are great: the beefcake shot of Isbecki putting on his shirt, Chris jogging up to a vendor for a couple of those oh-so-healthy street hot dogs. My favorite is the closing shot, with Chris and Marybeth heading out for what they think is the end of shift, only to be waylaid by Lt. Samuels. They're so confused and unhappy! Marybeth is wearing a cheesy bowling shirt, so she obviously has the lanes on her mind, but I wonder where Chris was headed in that big honkin' fur? That thing sure is over the top. Did we ever see her in that monstrosity anytime other than the credits?

It took a couple of seasons, but once this show hit its stride, it was steadily solid and reliable, week after week. So glad ThisTV is letting me get reacquainted after all this time. It's currently my favorite show, and it's thirty years old.

Edited July 4, 2016 by DXD526

[GHScorpiosRule]

First. I hate that they recast Muriel Lacey. I really liked the original actress who played her. Nothing against Penny Santon, but she's just not Muriel. So, I see that the episode after Mary Beth gives birth, they decided to do a post partum episode for her?

I'm only half way done, but putting aside what Mary Beth is going through with the post partum, if she doesn't want anything to do wtih the father that left her when she was a kid, I resent Harvey and Christine telling her she should give the man a chance or the time of day. I just don't get it. Maybe it's part and parcel of the decade/era? I don't know.

That said, and maybe I'm just a wee bit biased, but Tyne Daly looks FANTASTIC.

Was post partum depression still dismissed as "baby blues" in the mid 80s? 

[Crs97]

We know Christine had a difficult relationship with her mother (did we ever get details?), and her mother died before they could reconcile.  I remember her urging the sergeant to reconcile with his son and telling him she would give anything to be able to fix things with her mom; I am not surprised she wants the same for Mary Beth.

[Bastet]

I liken it to Mary Beth getting all excited any time Chris had a serious boyfriend, encouraging her to marry him and have a kid -- she knew that wasn't what Chris wanted, so she'd eventually return to her senses, but because marriage and motherhood made her happy, her first reaction was always to push Christine towards it.  She saw it through her own eyes, and had to be told (usually more than once) to step back and see it through Christine's. 

[Jaded]

Sharon Gless had a small role on Rizzoli & Isles last night as a criminal in jail.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Jaded

[GHScorpiosRule]

I just have to post this here, because I'm just squeeing like a tween, and not the adult I am:

Just saw Cagney Sharon and Lacey Tyne at the DNC Convention, as part of a slew of celebrities singing!

Okay, I think I'm back to normal now.

[Bastet]

I know, right?  They also hosted a fundraiser for Clinton's campaign this spring, that was really intimate (in some producer's home with only a small group of people) and made me wish I was there. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I know, right?  They also hosted a fundraiser for Clinton's campaign this spring, that was really intimate (in some producer's home with only a small group of people) and made me wish I was there. 

That's awesome. I've been trying to find any and all interviews with them post-Cagney and Lacey, and it just warms my heart that they're still friends and working together, so to speak. It was just a beautiful thing to see. I can't explain it. 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who loved seeing them together.

[Bastet]

I just love that they sat down and explicitly talked early on about how studios love to play "divide and conquer" between women and vowed they would always be a united front when it came to the show.  And that such a close friendship developed and continues to this day just makes one of my favorite shows all the more enjoyable for reasons I'd need time to properly sort and articulate.  But seeing them together makes me stupid happy every time.  (Sharon went to the opening of Tyne's Broadway play last year, too.)

Edited July 28, 2016 by Bastet

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh, that's a perfect description: I always get "stupid happy" whenever I see them together!  And my respect for them just shot up at reading this. Especially when there is so much cattiness in the world, especially among women and girls.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay, I found it online! You can see Tyne and Sharon at the 1:17 mark!

 

 

[

[GHScorpiosRule]

It's a well know fact I suck at witty titles, so feel free to change it. I won't be offended.

we can talk about the movies here.

I searched on IMDb and noticed that Christine did eventually get married, and not to David! James Naughton, who will always be the guy who played Angela's ex-husband on Who's The Boss? played her husband.

Yet, by the third movie, she's back to being Christine Cagney, and Naughton is not featured. So, split?

Also? Did they recast Michael? And I didn't see any credit for Harvey, Junior.

Just wondering.

[Bastet]

Yes, they split up.  I think it's in the first movie that she catches him cheating, and then in a later one that they finalize the divorce, but I can't remember the timeline for sure. 

Sharon and Barney fought tooth and nail over Christine being married (obviously, he won) and she still vehemently insists he should have never written her that way.  I agree.  (I'm not sure if he's ever outright conceded it was a characterization mistake or just hinted that yeah, maybe she was right.) 

Yes, they recast Michael.  I don't think we see the "kids" again after the first movie, but again I'm not sure.

I hate the last one for Christine's story with Michael Moriarty's character, but like it otherwise, and wish we'd gotten TV movies right after the series went off the air, as we were supposed to, rather than having to wait so long for them.  But head office changes at the network put the kibosh on that.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Bastet

[GHScorpiosRule]

I agree. That marrying Christine off was a bad idea and it strikes me as out of character if that makes sense.

I know I should watch to find out for myself, and I will, but did Moriarty reprise his role from the series as the cop who was ostracized for breaking the blue wall or a new character?

[Bastet]

No, he's the father of a dead girl (I can't remember if it was an OD, suicide, or murder) in Christine's building; the wife goes back wherever they live, he stays in town to clean out the daughter's apartment, and Chris has an affair with him.  Even though she's always been firm that she does not get involved with married men.  I'm all about the world being shades of grey rather than black and white, but we all do draw bright line rules on certain things, and Christine drew one on sleeping with married men.  (As should everyone, IMO, unless the married person is in an open relationship, of course, but that wasn't the case here.)  I didn't find it interesting to see her chuck that aside, I found it disappointing.  And I just didn't like his character, period, so that didn't help.

I'd forgotten Moriarty had appeared before.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well hell. Why does it seem the movies had Christine doing all sorts of things that are out of character for her? I'm glad I'm forewarned; it'll save me from going on a rant here in the threads. So, I'll do my ranting "off-screen" if you will. Or, try to. You know I can't help myself when it comes to characters* I love who act out of character and who get bullshit and ridiculous storylines.

*Amanda King, Scarecrow & Mrs. King.

Edited August 11, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[GHScorpiosRule]

Weird. My response above I thought I'd posted last week! But it was sitting in "draft" mode when I clicked on reply.

Anyway, I watched all the reunion movies, and here are a couple of takeaways:

Sharon Gless's infectious laughter when she and Tyne are finally in the first scenes together. It gave me the feeling it was Sharon just so happy to see and be with Tyne again, and less of Chris seeing Mary Beth.

What Martin Cove did to his hair was a...tragedy. On the same level as Kate Jackson's Annie Hair do in the last half of Scarecrow & Mrs. King back in the day. It looked like a very bad toupée.

So Harvey, Junior is a Marine, so that explains why he wasn't there; Michael was a spoiled brat and with the magic of SORAS, unless he's 18 and living on his own, which is possible, but he looked older than 18. I really expected Mary Beth to lay into him for the disrespect when he sassed back to her when she told him she needed him to stay longer to babysit Alice.

And LaGuardia still lives! He's in Italy now! I love that this show continues to pay homage to Klute this way.

And I'll be honest, I was left scratching my head finding out that Mary Beth and Harvey sold the house and moved back to city because the boys were gone and it was just the three of them. By my calculations, they only lived in that house that they wanted so badly for a little over five years. Didn't they know the boys would be gone soon? Though the apartment looked fancier and bigger than their original apartment. Why bother moving and buying a house in the first place? Plot point?

I blew through the movies, so I'm all over the place, but I will say I didn't buy Chris as married. She didn't look or act...natural or comfortable. And James Naughton, who played her husband, didn't act like he loved her, either. The whole thing was a failure.  Barney should have listened to his wife about not doing that, even if Chris and Jim ended up divorced.

And I was very disappointed to learn she leaked the information about Lynne Thigpen's Captain who was a lesbian, just so she would get the LEO award; and then gets all pissy when it turns out her own past was used against her, and she didn't get it; but that she was used to "remove" the captain from the list so that they wouldn't look bad. And that whole affair storyline just left a very bad taste in my mouth. That Chris would shirk her duty just for this guy she just met; a married guy, instead of trying to get the evidence she needed to get for the murder case. A case she decided to lapse because the defense attorney gave the DA office's phone numbers including Chris and Mary Beth's, where people could call in their opinions about it.  THAT is NOT Christine Cagney.

I'll take my other thoughts to the media thread, as they're related to the discs and interviews on them.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, I don't like it that the 30th edition of the series boxed set doesn't allow for close captioning, because the sound, in places, isn't the greatest, and I can't understand what some of the people are saying.

I watch, as this is one of my favorite things of the shows I have, the interviews, and there aren't enough words to describe how much I love Tyne Daly. Both she and Sharon told the story of how when Sharon was cast and wasn't sure if she wanted to play Chris, called her up and went to her place with balloons and champagne to convince her. Except Tyne added that she got Sharon drunk until she agreed to play Christine Cagney. It made me snicker.

Interesting that Sharon doesn't think that Christine and Mary Beth are friends. Partners, yes. Have each others' back in a cop-perp situation yes; but that Chris would throw Mary Beth under the bus, if you will, when it came to Chris' ambition for promotions.  I don't think she watched the pilot movie. Or maybe it's a case of you can't believe everything in a pilot, because in the pilot, Mary Beth tells Harvey that Christine is her best friend. And why they cast that particular actor to play Harvey in the pilot is beyond me. I've only seen in him in two other shows/movies: as a slimy DA in Sidney Sheldon's Rage of Angels movies and a mob mouth piece in the first season of Law & Order "Torrents of Greed."

I like Meg Foster. But I didn't realize that CBS only aired two of the six episodes that featured her as Chris Cagney. She didn't really make an impression on me; I was, even back then, all about Tyne Daly. And most of my memories of this show are of Sharon Gless as Christine Cagney, and honestly? She is Chris Cagney.

Also, another bit of trivia, Sharon had her breasts wrapped so that she wouldn't look as busty as she really is.

And I don't know what it is, but Tyne and Sharon are just magic together. Whether it was during the run of this show, But even in the reunion movies.  Not to mention the guest stints each did on the other's show (Tyne on Burn Notice, even though hers was only five minutes, and Sharon on Judging Amy). And I love seeing them together in interviews.

[Bastet]

I think Sharon is spot on in her analysis of their relationship, and that tension in the dynamic - that Christine would die for Mary Beth to save her life, but she'd jeopardize her in other ways - is one of the things that made their partnership so interesting to me.  Their contrasting motivations for doing the job - Mary Beth to have a steady gig with good benefits, Christine to pursue a passion, continue a family tradition, break glass ceilings, and advance her career - set the stage for it, and then their differences in what they could justify to themselves, made it inevitable. 

[Bastet]

Quote

And I was very disappointed to learn she leaked the information about Lynne Thigpen's Captain who was a lesbian, just so she would get the LEO award; and then gets all pissy when it turns out her own past was used against her, and she didn't get it; but that she was used to "remove" the captain from the list so that they wouldn't look bad. And that whole affair storyline just left a very bad taste in my mouth. That Chris would shirk her duty just for this guy she just met; a married guy, instead of trying to get the evidence she needed to get for the murder case.

The affair directly contradicts what we'd seen of Christine previously, but the award maneuver was textbook Chris.  The ongoing tension between her and Mary Beth over what Chris was willing to do to get ahead was one of my favorite threads of the series.

On an unrelated note, one little thing I love in the first movie is that they don't ignore the reality of Mary Beth getting re-certified.  She hasn't fired a gun in years; she can't just pop off six rounds into the little paper target and be handed a service weapon, she has to practice. 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Bastet

[GHScorpiosRule]

37 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I think Sharon is spot on in her analysis of their relationship, and that tension in the dynamic - that Christine would die for Mary Beth to save her life, but she'd jeopardize her in other ways - is one of the things that made their partnership so interesting to me.  Their contrasting motivations for doing the job - Mary Beth to have a steady gig with good benefits, Christine to pursue a passion, continue a family tradition, break glass ceilings, and advance her career - set the stage for it, and then their differences in what they could justify to themselves, made it inevitable. 

Oh I agree about the tension and different motivations for joining the force; even Tyne pointed it out--that for Mary Beth, it wasn't what she had to do because it was a calling. And there were times when Christine would do whatever she had to, to advance her career--but I also saw them as friends as well. I guess I'm right in the middle of what Tyne and Sharon say about the relationship and what I saw on screen, if that makes sense. 

And I do so love their real life friendship, and I thought of you, @Bastet when Tyne said she and Sharon got together and decided to present a united front and weren't going to fall in with the "divide and conquer" that the brass/network, etc. so clearly wanted them to do. And Tyne also spoke on how nasty the rumors got about how Mary Beth and Foster's Christine couldn't just be partners without also being lesbians, because GASP! women cops? Partners and friends? And I didn't think that Foster's Chris and Mary Beth were "too much alike" which facilitated getting rid of her. 

I was hoping for a gag reel or interviews with the other actors, even Klute, in the specific season dvds, but no such luck.  And it bugged that in the bonus dvd, they didn't identify, who I assume were some of the writers, and other women advocates. I mean, I only recognized Gloria Steinem. I don't know who the first two women were in the "Making of the law" interviews. One had short, dirty blonde hair; the other could have been Black or Latin, but I just don't know who they were. I'm assuming that one white guy was a tv critic; and then there was another woman with white blonde hair, past her shoulders, with bright red lipstick; I think she may have been a writer or maybe producer, or both. I only know who Barney and Barbara Corday were from the individual interviews they did in the reunion movies--and at least with those, we got the CG of letting the viewer know who they were.  I expected better for a 30th anniversary boxed set. You know?

[GHScorpiosRule]

41 minutes ago, Bastet said:

The affair directly contradicts what we'd seen of Christine previously, but the award maneuver was textbook Chris.  The ongoing tension between her and Mary Beth over what Chris was willing to do to get ahead was one of my favorite threads of the series.

On an unrelated note, one little thing I love in the first movie is that they don't ignore the reality of Mary Beth getting re-certified.  She hasn't fired a gun in years; she can't just pop off six rounds into the little paper target and be handed a service weapon, she has to practice. 

At least Chris came clean with the Captain by the movie's end. And I'm glad they managed to repair the friendship.

Yes, I also appreciated how realistic they were with how Mary Beth had to recertify, and I loved how Chris helped her in the end the having to run whatever miles. So very realistic.  The movies did really well, yet they stopped at four, whereas, Perry Mason got over 30 movies over eight years I think? Just goes to prove Tyne's point about how men can get fat (though Raymond Burr's weight gain had to do with his back issues, I think, and he purposely gained weight in the original series because he didn't like being compared to Hollywood Handsome or something like that), while women had to still look the same as they did when they were in their 20s and 30s. Though Della also gained weight, but since she was supporting, I guess she didn't count. And this is coming from someone who LOVED Perry Mason and the movies but preferred the original series. I'm sure if Raymond Burr hadn't died when he did, we would have gotten more of his Ironside movies as well.

I found myself hating that weaselly ADA, and wishing we could have gotten more of Samuels, Petrie, and Isbeckie. Despite the TRAGIC hair, Martin Cove still looks good, as does Carl Lumbly.

[DXD526]

I haven't watched any of the interviews yet, but one thing I did find disappointing about the box set is the total lack of individual episode information. Just titles, no plot synopsis or list of guest actors, not even original air dates. I was looking forward to some inside or extra info I didn't know, like I've gotten from other box sets. It's so bare bones, I'm having to write down where I leave off, since I can't always remember the title of the last episode I watched.

Still enjoying the heck out of it, though. Can't wait to see the movies again, only saw each of them once, back when they originally aired. 

In that photo of Tyne and Sharon on the back of the booklet, Sharon looks like Elaine Stritch in those big glasses!

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, DXD526 said:

I haven't watched any of the interviews yet, but one thing I did find disappointing about the box set is the total lack of individual episode information. Just titles, no plot synopsis or list of guest actors, not even original air dates. I was looking forward to some inside or extra info I didn't know, like I've gotten from other box sets. It's so bare bones, I'm having to write down where I leave off, since I can't always remember the title of the last episode I watched.

Still enjoying the heck out of it, though. 

I agree. You would think for an anniversary set, that TPTB would put more effort into putting this set together. And the interviews we do have aren't ones made for the set, either, but excerpts from interviews given during the Emmys. That is, they're from Emmy.org or something. Very disappointing. And the audio from that one interview in England, with Barney, Tyne, and Sharon was awful. It was difficult to make out some of what they said. And the fact that this set didn't provide subtitles is even more frustrating. The clip they showed if Chris drunk after Charlie died, as powerful as it is, I can't understand because Chris is slurring her words-subtitles would have come in handy! At this point, I'm going to keep the series recording if only to have my Closed Captioning!?

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, I'm down to the end of the sixth season and "To Sir, With Love" had me in stitches. Specifically, the scene where Christine and Mary Beth are making cannoli. I'm double bummed because I would have loved a commentary for this episode to hear if Tyne and Sharon had as much fun doing that scene as much as I enjoyed it. It was silly, but lord, I couldn't stop laughing.

And Troy Slaten, who played Michael Lacey, must have been a late bloomer, because he looked exactly the same at 9 as he did at 12. Tony La Torre, who played Harvey, Jr., did grow up nicely. And his Harvey also grew up by the sixth season.  I really liked the scene where Mary Beth told him about when she got pregnant at 19 and had an abortion.

And it seems that Harvey, Senior can be the asshole he was in the pilot when things aren't working out for him.  He clearly doesn't believe in what's good for the goose, is good for the gander; in that, he wants and expects Mary Beth to talk to him about her feelings, whatever they may be--if a certain case has her shutting down or what have you, but he didn't reciprocate and was a downright jerk when the bad weather wasn't letting up in Saratoga Springs, where that big project would allow them to finally buy a house.

And I really wanted to hear both Tyne and Sharon sing and dance at the end of "To Sir, With Love" but they ended the episode just when they went out. Bummer.

[Bastet]

Quote

So, I'm down to the end of the sixth season and "To Sir, With Love" had me in stitches. Specifically, the scene where Christine and Mary Beth are making cannoli. I'm double bummed because I would have loved a commentary for this episode to hear if Tyne and Sharon had as much fun doing that scene as much as I enjoyed it.

Go ahead and get your giddy on; they've talked about it, and they indeed had a blast. 

[DXD526]

Quote

And it seems that Harvey, Senior can be the asshole he was in the pilot when things aren't working out for him. 

Harv really gets on my nerves sometimes. Two of the episodes shown this week, for example. In one, Harvey Jr. was going to a formal dance with his girlfriend where everyone stays out all night. Marybeth wanted to have a talk with him first, but Harv blew her off like she was being over-protective. He seemed to have a boys-will-be-boys attitude about the whole thing and was content to let Harvey do whatever he wanted. But in the other episode, when Michael discovered their neighbors had weed in the house, Harv was so angry he was practically bouncing off the walls, screaming at Marybeth to do something. She wasn't so anxious to be playing cop around their new neighborhood and was more cautious, and Harv just couldn't understand that. And he was quite obstinate and vocal about it. So, sex good, weed bad. Got it, Harv.

I like Samuels' ongoing fascination with his microwave! It's funny when he's having a meeting with the detectives in his office and is distracted by something he's cooking. 

I have a vague recollection of that food fight scene. Can't wait to see it again!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Exactly @DXD526! For the most part, I do like Harvey, but his double standards, if you will, just grate. Or how sometimes Mary Beth, doesn't necessarily kow-tow to him precisely, but lets him berate her before her own temper lets loose. Though I don't know if it was meant to be funny, or maybe it was, I did snort, when Harvey was spending money as if it was growing on trees, and he bought that snow blower that was sitting in their living room. And when Mary Beth asks what's next?! And he says something about a new car, maybe a mistress? And Mary Beth slams her hand against Harvey's chest. I'm sure if was the mistress crack. And then telling Mary Beth she has to spend $900 on herself. Her initial protest then how she pauses, as if she likes the idea; the way Tyne played it, made me laugh, I won't lie.

That food fight scene is PRICELESS. I'm surprised Mary Beth wasn't angrier at Christine's huffiness, since it was Christine who volunteered Mary Beth to make the 200 odd cannolis! Just make sure you're not drinking or eating anything during that scene!

8 hours ago, Bastet said:

Go ahead and get your giddy on; they've talked about it, and they indeed had a blast. 

Now if only I could find the interview where they do talk about it! Can you give me any hints, @Bastet?

[GHScorpiosRule]

ETA: Dear Lord.  What did Tyne do to her hair in the last season?! Looks more like a poodle here than in the one episode after Mary Beth's mastectomy "perm." It's right up there with Kate Jackson's Little Orphan Annie look in season two of Scarecrow & Mrs. King. I much preferred her short, feathery look she had rockin' in the first season and season six, even.

Why yes, I can be shallow.

The finale in season six was very powerful. Did Sharon win an Emmy for that? I know she said in one of the interviews that one Emmy she got was for one of the more humorous episodes.

[Bastet]

Quote

Now if only I could find the interview where they do talk about it! Can you give me any hints, @Bastet?

Ha, no - I have 35 years' worth of their comments (and Barney's) floating around in my head.  Another fun tidbit: the scene where they go get completely bombed with the rape victim they were trying to hand-hold through testifying?  They were drinking for real.

Quote

The finale in season six was very powerful. Did Sharon win an Emmy for that?

I'd have to look up who won each season, as they took turns, but for the whole time the show was on the air with Sharon as Cagney, one of them won each year.

[Jaded]

I'm way behind because of the backed up episodes I lost when I had to have my DVR replaced by AT&T/U-verse. Having said that I wanted to share some of my thoughts on the Season 5 Finale. I knew what was coming in the terms of it being Dan Shor's last episode but that didn't make me any less sad in seeing Newman get shot. The face the actor made while falling to the ground was really weird though and I still can't figure out if it was intentional or not. I really liked the character though and wondered if it was his choice to leave, if it was the EP/Writers intent the whole time or something else. I was surprised to see on IMDB that Dan Shor's career so far didn't have more permanent gigs on TV shows or movies. Apparently he is/was a stage actor too and has a full service video production company.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Jaded

[GHScorpiosRule]

Funny you should say that @Jaded; I was thinking it was hilariously bad acting on Schorr's part, what with the eye rolling to the back of his head and the way he fell after he was shot. I don't know if he was only supposed to be on for the season, since Sidney Klute had passed away or what.

Speaking of which, Klute looked really ill in his last few episodes.

I just finished watching the complete set, and it was only in the few episodes of the last season where the warning about "technical anomalies" on the discs were due to "historical footage." There were a few episodes when the scene faded to black for a commercial, there was the tag of "PLACE COMMERCIAL HERE" along with two instances of Sharon or Tyne saying that "Cagney and Lacey will be right back!" Weird all around.

And I love Tyne to death; And I fully admit I have a mega mega girl crush on her, but my GOD, was her hair and make-up horrible in the last season. I know the show didn't hate her, but if I didn't know the show didn't hate her, I would think the show hated her. Especially that weird style she had for the last three episodes.

I don't recall the series finale from when it initially aired, but boy was I left disappointed, because I wanted to know what happened! I never liked Marquette, and I didn't quite believe him when he said he was following orders.  I'll have to rewatch the first reunion movie to see if I missed Christine saying something about it. I'm going to assume that they didn't get to Major Squad, because I do recall Mary Beth saying she retired after putting in her 20 years, and by the end of the show, she had put in 19. I can't imagine her retiring after only one year at major squad.

And I hope it was Carl Lumbly's choice to leave the show. It came as a shock to me that he was gone after three or four episodes.

I hated Nick. Though I did laugh when it turned out he was the obnoxious asshole that caused Mary Beth to break her heel and her "YOU!" and the look on her face was priceless.

I will also admit that for a show that had basically good kids, that weren't intolerable brats, I was disappointed in how obnoxious and bratty Michael ended up being (yeah, yeah, jealous over Harvey, Junior), and how Harvey Junior seemed to regress between the sixth and last season. Where did the sudden rebellion come from? 

And then there was Harvey Senior, with his government conspiracy theories permeating it seems, every conversation he and Mary Beth had; and his hatred for the military. I suppose it was showing the "other" side: that not all parents want their sons enlisting, even though we weren't engaged in any active wars at the time.

And since these dvds don't have the subtitle option, I'm going to keep the recordings on my dvr, because I couldn't make out what Michael asked Mary Beth in "Friendly Fire" when they were told Harvey Junior was missing. Something like, when he was found, could he ask Harvey Junior if he could have his bed? And Mary Beth slapped him for it?

And it seems that Mary Beth couldn't let Martin be her father, after all since, again, in the reunion movies, she said something how she hadn't spoken with him in eight years.

And now the theme song for this show is playing in an unending loop in my head! But at least none of the discs are defective!

[GHScorpiosRule]

So there are a few things that bothered me about this series, that I wished had been done differently. 

One, that it seemed our detectives lost more cases than they won; or sometimes I wasn't sure just what the case/homicide was. 

Specifically, I really wish they had shown the viewers just how David questioned that wife-abusing asshole in the Civilian Board hearing instead of having Mary Beth role play how David impeached him. Even though I did love how Mary Beth/Tyne did it since Christine couldn't make it.

The same for Christine's rape trial. I really wanted to see Potter's face when the jury came back with a guilty verdict. I had to again, remind myself, that this was still the 80s, where women who were single and not in a monogamous relationship, but had an active sex life, were seen as whores and promiscuous. That it would still take another 10 years (I think) before their sexual history couldn't be used against them. Still happens though. And I was glad I didn't have to see her being raped. Though two years earlier, Hunter had done a two-parter, where Stephanie Kramer's character, DeeDee McCall had been raped by a diplomat, and he did beat her before she stopped fighting (She was shown punching him to stop him, but ultimately, he was the stronger one).

But I'm glad it wasn't ambiguous, like the one date rape episode on Law & Order: SVU, where you didn't know who to believe, and the ending was left ambiguous, and we, the viewers never got to see what the jury's verdict was.

But ultimately, I loved how real the relationship/friendship between Mary Beth and Christine was.

[Bastet]

I remember how unusual - and thus how very effective - it was then to see the exam being done (when Mary Beth took Chris to the hospital after the rape).  Now we have L&O: SVU showing the rape kit process in full detail, and it's still powerful, but this one remains clear in my memory.  With that doctor who kept telling her to relax. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I remember how unusual - and thus how very effective - it was then to see the exam being done (when Mary Beth took Chris to the hospital after the rape).  Now we have L&O: SVU showing the rape kit process in full detail, and it's still powerful, but this one remains clear in my memory.  With that doctor who kept telling her to relax. 

Yes it was. And if you look real carefully, you can see the tears slowly going down the side of Christine's face. I found that even more powerful, and I found myself crossing my legs and cringing, when the doctor told her to relax and drop her knees when he was using the speculum. No matter how many times I've had my exams, I can never relax, I can only imagine how rape victims feel.

And how Mary Beth wanted to be there for Christine; wanted to spend the night at her place since Christine didn't want to go to Queens. Tyne was amazing with how she expressed Mary Beth's helplessness.

[DXD526]

I was in college when this show first came on, so even though I was plenty old enough to enjoy it, having little life experience, there was a lot I couldn't really relate to. Watching again now, all these years later, I'm seeing things that went right by me 30 years ago. I remembered Chris and Charlie being close, but not how incredibly complicated their relationship was. It was awkward, her being so upset about his drinking when she had her own problems with the bottle, problems she only acknowledged when it got out of control. By S5, they're at odds with each other more than they're getting along, I had forgotten that.

One thing I hadn't forgotten was how badly Chris treated Charlie's girlfriend, Donna. She seemed to have her heart in the right place and really care about Charlie, and all Chris did was abuse her. Was it because she resented anyone whom she perceived as coming between her and Charlie? The scene where Chris walks in on the aftermath of Charlie proposing...wow, what a powerful scene. We didn't see what happened, but it's easy to guess: Charlie proposed, Donna said she couldn't even consider marriage until he got his drinking under control, and that pissed him off and he started knocking 'em back (thereby proving she was right to be cautious, of course). After she leaves, Chris tries to deal with her drunk, belligerent dad, with little success. 

It's a hard scene to watch, but so incredibly well done. The show was pretty much doing everything right by this point. The sheer high quality, episode after episode, is a pleasure to watch. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, "To Sir, With Love" aired last weekend I think? and the timing was fortuitous. I so needed to forget about life and just laugh, and I just watched it and it didn't fail to deliver. I wonder if in that one scene, after Mary Beth threw the flour in Christine's face, that smile she had on her face, it looked like Tyne broke character, trying not to laugh.

Just me, then?

[DXD526]

To Sir With Love is such a good episode. Pure silliness from start to finish, even the case they worked on was silly, but so well done. It was a needed break after the heaviness of the previous few episodes, which dealt in large part with the downward spiral of Charlie. The show wasn't hesitant in showing Charlie, who was supposed to be a likable character, at his worst. 

Regarding his last episode, I always wondered why Charlie was so drunk the night he died. Chris called him earlier in the day to confirm their date to go to the movies that night, so with that on the agenda, why would he get so hammered? He loved going out with his sergeant daughter, so his starting to drink in the afternoon knowing she was coming over that night always seemed a bit strange to me. Did he just never get her message? I guess we'll never know...

[movingtargetgal]

My alcoholic father died at the age of 48.  He had heart disease, cirrhosis of the liver and emphysema.  He had numerous health scares and been repeatedly warned that he would die if he continued to smoke and drink.  My father's response was he was like Frank Sinatra and was going to live his life "My Way".  He literally dropped dead alone with a beer in his hand.  His heart (aorta) burst.  

Charlie Cagney was an alcoholic who wanted to live his life "My Way".  His mind and body were broken because of his addiction.  He did not have the strength or will to put down the alcohol and it killed him, like it killed my father.  It did not matter to Charlie or my father that they had children who loved them.  They were on a self destructive path that their loved ones were helpless to prevent...and it killed them.  There are no logical reasons to explain the how's and why's in their deaths.  The only answer is that they were alcoholics, it is a fatal disease.

[shksabelle]

Watching on Hulu and watching the Burn Out episode from season 2.

Strauss waltz playing and Mary Beth asks what it is.  The other woman answers "Haydn's 73rd in D".  WHAT THE WHAT????????????????????????

[craziness]

I just learned that a reboot of C&L is in the works. Sarah Drew (formerly of Grey's Anatomy) is Cagney and (I think) Michelle Hurd is Lacey. Ving Rhiens (sp?) Is also in it.

Edited March 20, 2018 by craziness
Added info

[Bastet]

Yeah, the reboot was announced in January, the casting of the two leads last week, and then Ving Rhames, as a new character - maybe replacing Samuels in the chain of command, or maybe higher up the food chain, as a captain - today.

I liked Michelle Hurd a lot on L&O: SVU, missed her after she was gone, and hated the way her character was written out, and I like Rhames, but damn if I will watch this show.  Create a NEW police drama focused on a partnership between two women, told from a feminist point of view (I don't even know if they aim to replicate this), and exploring they myriad issues underlying crime in America, specifically NYC (again, no clue if they're keeping this aspect, or just capitalizing on the name), and I'd happily check it out.  But call those characters Christine Cagney and Mary Beth Lacey, and you can miss me.  Like Sharon Gless said: Just call them something else.

I don't like to wish ill of a project, since I can just not watch, but if this dies after the pilot, I will do a modified happy dance.

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 3/20/2018 at 1:12 AM, Bastet said:

I don't like to wish ill of a project, since I can just not watch, but if this dies after the pilot, I will do a modified happy dance.

Get ready to do your happy dance, because CBS passed. I, myself, am doing a jumping up and down happy dance.

[Bastet]

Once I realized it was time for the upfronts, I meant to check on the C&L reboot, but got too lazy; thanks for posting.

I don't know that I would have watched, because the number of cop shows I've ever truly liked can be counted on one hand (this one, Cold Case, Major Crimes ... there may be one or two more, but they aren't coming to me right now), but had an original show centered around two women as partners, one of whom was played by Michelle Hurd, been announced, I may have tuned in.  I'd definitely have checked out the pilot had it been conceived as a feminist show like C&L was, and continued watching if it also realistically explored issues of class and race as well as gender.  But to hijack Christine Cagney and Mary Beth Lacey to do it -- I just couldn't get on board.  Some things are too special in my memories to be messed with.

Moving from reboot to revival, for anyone who doesn't already know, Tyne Daly has been cast in the upcoming Murphy Brown revival (airing on CBS starting in September; Thursdays, I think).  She'll be the new barkeep at Phil's, playing the late Phil's sister Phyllis, a character quite similar to Phil.  I think casting someone of Tyne's ability will keep it from feeling false and forced, like they just tried to slide someone into the Phil role and it didn't work.

[Was-MArsenault]

It's coming to Start TV on October 14.

[Glendenning]

Judith Barsi guested in C & L as Shauna, an abused child. While obviously no one involved could see into the future, that episode is much more difficult to watch now.

[catlover79]

On 8/11/2016 at 12:52 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Not to mention the guest stints each did on the other's show (Tyne on Burn Notice, even though hers was only five minutes, and Sharon on Judging Amy).

Tyne was also in an episode of Rosie O'Neill, and I have no doubt that if Christy had lasted longer, Sharon would have returned the favor (especially since Sharon's husband co-exec produced that show as well as being showrunner on C&L). It would have been fun to see Sharon and Tyne together in 1912 era clothing.

Mary Beth and Harvey would be so proud of their son, Michael. Actually, Troy Slaten grew up to become a lawyer who is currently running to be a judge:

https://troyslatenforjudge.com/

[Crs97]

53 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

I have no doubt that if Christy had lasted longer, Sharon would have returned the favor (especially since Sharon's husband co-exec produced that show as well as being showrunner on C&L).

IIRC, in an interview Tyne said she needed money after her divorce and called Sharon to ask her husband for a job.  That is how she got Christy.