Some People Are Indifferent To Raymond: Your Least Favorite Moments

[Holden308]

On 11/16/2017 at 0:52 PM, msani19 said:

Just saw the one where Debra was choking and Ray was useless (as usual) and Robert had to perform the Heimlich. The scene in at the pizza place where they were talking about who "gets" Debra if Ray was out of the picture nauseates and infuriates me at the same time. Seriously, Robert, you "get" her because you are the brother and it's in the bible? Okkkkk. I can't even begin to express the fury at the dismissive and breezy way they had quickly reduced Debra to Ray's property that they were deciding how to divide up. So funny, haha. I want to slug every one of those guys! I know the show itself was never on the progressive side of gender roles, but that episode as in 2001! 

Ok, I just gotta shake it off, lol. Everything related to topics like that is setting me off this year!

I don't know about anyone else.....but while I think Patricia Heaton is a wonderful actress, that coughing/choking was the worst piece of put on acting I have seen in such a successful show. I mean.....it wasn't even close to believable. The coughs were so forced it wasn't funny.

I put on better fake coughs in my teens when trying to get out of school.

As for the rest.....Robert saying he got Debra if Ray was dead was just another in the LONG line of examples hinting that Robert had a major thing for his sister-in-law and was always jealous that Ray managed to land her while his own love life generally sucked. The sad part was that they even had Robert act like this AFTER he and Amy got married and even managed to show it in front of Amy a few times.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Holden308

[Holden308]

IIRC there was even one episode where Ray, Debra and Robert were in Ray and Deb's kitchen. They were talking about relationships (mostly his failed ones) and Robert said that Debra was perfect and quickly had to backtrack to say he meant that she was perfect for Ray when they questioned him on it.

Obviously Robert having a thing for Debra was an in-joke throughout the series as it came up often enough for the audience to know (but of course, those on the show were supposed to be oblivious).....but damn it was creepy.

With regard to Robert and Amy.....while I do think that Amy's character really did love Robert, I got the feeling that she was one of those desperate 35+ year old women who had never been married, no kids and rarely ever had a romantic relationship who more just wanted to be married than anything else. I mean, she married the first (and only) guy she slept with. But while Robert does love Amy, you get the distinct impression he would have dropped her like a bad habit if Debra had shown any sort of romantic or sexual interest in him.

[ByTor]

6 hours ago, Holden308 said:

The sad part was that they even had Robert act like this AFTER he and Amy got married and even managed to show it in front of Amy a few times.

Amy should have climbed on the sofa and smacked Robert more often! :)

2 hours ago, Holden308 said:

With regard to Robert and Amy.....while I do think that Amy's character really did love Robert, I got the feeling that she was one of those desperate 35+ year old women who had never been married, no kids and rarely ever had a romantic relationship who more just wanted to be married than anything else.

IMO it was especially apparent when Amy's parents wouldn't give Robert their blessing to marry Amy.  When Robert said her parents said no & maybe getting married wasn't such a great idea, Amy said "But I'm getting married," as opposed to saying "But I want to marry you."  Come to think of it, even when she 1st got engaged she kept saying "I'm getting married", not "I'm marrying you."

Edited January 5, 2018 by ByTor

[Holden308]

10 hours ago, ByTor said:

Amy should have climbed on the sofa and smacked Robert more often! :)

Agreed lol

Robert and/or Amy would have been good as callers to the Tom Leykis show.....Robert because of his underlying love for his sister-in-law and Leykis would have gone to town on Amy being over 30 and marrying the first guy she slept with hehehe

[ShadowSixx]

On 1/5/2018 at 1:56 AM, Holden308 said:

I don't know about anyone else.....but while I think Patricia Heaton is a wonderful actress, that coughing/choking was the worst piece of put on acting I have seen in such a successful show. I mean.....it wasn't even close to believable. The coughs were so forced it wasn't funny.

I put on better fake coughs in my teens when trying to get out of school.

As for the rest.....Robert saying he got Debra if Ray was dead was just another in the LONG line of examples hinting that Robert had a major thing for his sister-in-law and was always jealous that Ray managed to land her while his own love life generally sucked. The sad part was that they even had Robert act like this AFTER he and Amy got married and even managed to show it in front of Amy a few times.

 

Pierce Brosnan did a better job of choking in Mrs. Doubtfire. He wasn't coughing either and with the way Debra was "choking" it's hard to tell. Sounded like coughing more than anything or when the food goes down the wrong pipe and you cough it up. 

[ByTor]

6 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

the way Debra was "choking" it's hard to tell. Sounded like coughing more than anything or when the food goes down the wrong pipe and you cough it up. 

Which made the scene the opposite of what they intended...she was forcefully coughing, Ray was right to do nothing. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

Which made the scene the opposite of what they intended...she was forcefully coughing, Ray was right to do nothing. 

He was right to not intervene, but he was wrong to turn up the tv to cover the coughing. ;)

[CherryAmes]

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

Which made the scene the opposite of what they intended...she was forcefully coughing, Ray was right to do nothing. 

They do acknowledge this though almost right away when Debra says (paraphrased) "alright then what would you have done if I had been choking?"  Ray was right to do nothing but he still wouldn't have done anything if she had been choking - well except, as Deaja points out to turn up the TV!  Aside from his callousness though I can sympathize somewhat with Ray, not everyone knows the Heimlich and we'd be helpless in a situation where someone was really choking too,

Edited January 12, 2018 by CherryAmes

[Mrs. Hanson]

On 5/30/2017 at 8:40 PM, tribeca said:

My least favorite episode is the one where Robert and Ray argue about who their mom will live with after dad dies.    I hate everything about that conversation in the car.   

I always skip that one if it comes on.  Thought I erased it from my memory until I started reading all episodes thread.  It seems like if there was a reunion it would have to be Marie and Frank funeral.  I am not sure how the writers could make that funny.     

Me too and I have no issues with death or dying, and I encourage all to have such conversations while we are all six feet up!  But something about that one just grates.  Like who the hell would WANT Marie to move in with them?  Ray, your wife would move out - but maybe that is what he wants all along.

Per the hubby siding with Mommy issue we saw A LOT on this show - if my hubby continually sided with his mom....ick.  There was one episode (I think it was a Christmas one) where Ray sided with Marie and she hugged him like they were lovers and her face had this mushy look on it and I was like......gross.  I am close with my two sons but hey man....draw a line.

[bigskygirl]

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 0:56 AM, Holden308 said:

I don't know about anyone else.....but while I think Patricia Heaton is a wonderful actress, that coughing/choking was the worst piece of put on acting I have seen in such a successful show. I mean.....it wasn't even close to believable. The coughs were so forced it wasn't funny.

I put on better fake coughs in my teens when trying to get out of school.

As for the rest.....Robert saying he got Debra if Ray was dead was just another in the LONG line of examples hinting that Robert had a major thing for his sister-in-law and was always jealous that Ray managed to land her while his own love life generally sucked. The sad part was that they even had Robert act like this AFTER he and Amy got married and even managed to show it in front of Amy a few times.

I was always gross out when it came to this. The one scene with the PTA meeting at Ray and Debra's house with her wearing the one revealing outfit, and the way Robert and Frank were acting and looking at her was disgusting with a capital D.

[Holden308]

11 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

I was always gross out when it came to this. The one scene with the PTA meeting at Ray and Debra's house with her wearing the one revealing outfit, and the way Robert and Frank were acting and looking at her was disgusting with a capital D.

And then in the episode where Debra is helping out at Frank's lodge....he gets all bent out of shape because his old age lodge buddies were ogling her and making comments about her "caboose" behind her back. He even said the reason he "broke the code" was because she was like a daughter to him.

A daughter he didn't mind openly perving or commenting on during the PTA episode.....

At least Ray got disgusted and tried to flee whenever Marie tried to jump in bed with him whatever the circumstance lol

Edited January 21, 2018 by Holden308

[Guest]

I’m going to respond to the Robert stuff in The All Episodes thread.

[ByTor]

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 9:41 PM, BogoGog24 said:

One episode that I've never liked is "Angry Sex." While it was a known fact throughout the series how much Ray liked sex, I thought this kind of went overboard and painted his character in a really bad light, to the point it might even be out of character for him. To make your wife angry on purpose for sexual pleasure is just far too dark and twisted for a comedy.

The bolded part reminds me why that one where Marie tells Debra she & Frank have sex something like once a year is annoying.  Debra wanted to prove that she & Ray "still had it", but Ray rejected her advances because he was more interested in what was on TV.  No way in hell horndog Ray would have turned down sex!

[BlossomCulp]

What bothered me about the angry sex episode was that they set it up that Debra got angry about Marie a lot - and pretty angry at Ray a lot too.  It took him that long to figure out that when she was angry he could get hot sex?

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, BlossomCulp said:

What bothered me about the angry sex episode was that they set it up that Debra got angry about Marie a lot - and pretty angry at Ray a lot too.  It took him that long to figure out that when she was angry he could get hot sex?

LOL good point!

[msani19]

3 hours ago, BlossomCulp said:

What bothered me about the angry sex episode was that they set it up that Debra got angry about Marie a lot - and pretty angry at Ray a lot too.  It took him that long to figure out that when she was angry he could get hot sex?

Shows how much of an idiot he really was to not put 2 and 2 together on how to get something he wanted from Debra all the time.

I will add that even if he figured it out, it's a manipulative and creepy thing to do, which is why I think he would have done it. But he would have overplayed his hand and she would have figured it out. 

I really hated that episode. Rewatching so much of this show and many other sitcoms, I find so many aspects unsettling and disturbing given the benefit of time and the way we've all changed as a society. The idea of the poor desperate beat down husband who never gets sex is nauseating (it was then too to be honest). Cause, of course, the man is entitled to have sex whenever he wants, after all, he got married and a woman isn't an actual human person who deserves respect or anything, no she's there for his needs. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by msani19

[TGinKY]

I just recently started watching this show on TV Land, and thing I cannot stand is how they never lock their doors and Ray's family is constantly barging through them. Especially irritating was the episode where Ray and Debra lied and said they were going away so they could get some alone time. Of course the Barones came bursting in the door to drop something off and caught them. Sure the Barones probably have a key, but using it could have given them enough time to run upstairs.

[BlossomCulp]

What I find funny is how many episode I note where they go upstairs for the night without locking their doors or turning off the lights.  I get that they don't want to slow down the flow of a scene by having the actors do unnecessary things but it's still a little weird!  And of course this isn't unique to ELR.  At least they do close their door!

[CherryAmes]

On 6/2/2018 at 4:01 AM, TGinKY said:

Especially irritating was the episode where Ray and Debra lied and said they were going away so they could get some alone time. Of course the Barones came bursting in the door to drop something off and caught them.

The most irritating one for this that I saw was the episode where Ray brings home the "naughty" board game.  Ray and Debra were not home at the time yet Marie and Frank (and I think Robert as well) were IN their house when he walked through the door.  I forget now if they even had a reason why they happened to be there but honestly it's bad enough that they are always coming over but that they treat Ray and Debra's house as an extension of theirs was maddening!

[msani19]

I get that the point was that his family was intrusive, but as @cherry ames said, it's maddening! Why did they feel entitled to go through their mail? When Marie was all judgy Debra buying things from Victoria's Secret, I wanted to scream! The level of their meddling, presumptuousness, and interfering mean I have to take long breaks between watching the show for fear that I will lose my mind!

[ByTor]

10 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

The most irritating one for this that I saw was the episode where Ray brings home the "naughty" board game.  Ray and Debra were not home at the time yet Marie and Frank (and I think Robert as well) were IN their house when he walked through the door.  I forget now if they even had a reason why they happened to be there but honestly it's bad enough that they are always coming over but that they treat Ray and Debra's house as an extension of theirs was maddening!

When that happens I always assume Marie is over to watch the kids and the intrusive others just happen to migrate over.  The thing that annoyed me was how they hounded Raymond with questions about what was in the bag, after which one of them (I think it was Robert) just opened the bag and pulled the game out.  VERY irritating!

[BlossomCulp]

On 6/12/2018 at 5:38 AM, ByTor said:

The thing that annoyed me was how they hounded Raymond with questions about what was in the bag, after which one of them (I think it was Robert) just opened the bag and pulled the game out. 

It was Robert and I agree that this episode shows the other Barones at their intrusive worst!  

[cpcathy]

I watched the sexy game episode again, and it really gets me that Debra is trying to insinuate to Raymond that he can't please her properly, then says, "I shouldn't have to tell you what I want." WHAT??? That's exactly what she should have done! Makes me so mad! He's not a mindreader!

I also get a little skeeved out by any episode that involves Ray and Debra kissing or making out, I don't see any chemistry between them and I don't understand why even stay together. Debra HATES Ray.

[Inquisitionist]

15 hours ago, cpcathy said:

I watched the sexy game episode again, and it really gets me that Debra is trying to insinuate to Raymond that he can't please her properly, then says, "I shouldn't have to tell you what I want." WHAT??? That's exactly what she should have done! Makes me so mad! He's not a mindreader!

Debra was a "good Catholic girl" who likely was raised not to talk about sex.  Look at her own parents, who seem not to talk about anything meaningful.  Plus a lot of women have this notion that the man should be able to "pick up her signals" or adjust based on how she's responding in the moment.  So this episode involved Debra coming to understand that this is not enough -- men actually need (and sometimes like) more explicit direction.  And not just about sex.  ;-)

[CherryAmes]

What I liked about that episode was it was a good example of both Ray and Debra being both right and wrong.   When Debra finally admitted that to Ray he was upset at first but then he rightly pointed out that after all the years they'd been together she should have known he wasn't getting her signals years ago.  They'd gotten into a rut and they'd also gotten tired not from all the sex but from all the kids and intrusive neighbours and life in general.  I thought it was  a nice touch that both of them, even after years of marriage, still had some lessons to learn about each other.

Edited June 19, 2018 by CherryAmes

[BlossomCulp]

On 5/3/2018 at 9:34 AM, BlossomCulp said:

What bothered me about the angry sex episode was that they set it up that Debra got angry about Marie a lot - and pretty angry at Ray a lot too.  It took him that long to figure out that when she was angry he could get hot sex?

 

17 hours ago, cpcathy said:

I watched the sexy game episode again, and it really gets me that Debra is trying to insinuate to Raymond that he can't please her properly, then says, "I shouldn't have to tell you what I want." WHAT??? That's exactly what she should have done! Makes me so mad! He's not a mindreader!

 

Too funny.  Clearly Ray has a history of not reading Debra's signals!  

[ByTor]

19 hours ago, cpcathy said:

I watched the sexy game episode again, and it really gets me that Debra is trying to insinuate to Raymond that he can't please her properly, then says, "I shouldn't have to tell you what I want." WHAT??? That's exactly what she should have done! Makes me so mad! He's not a mindreader!

This happens a lot in real life, though, so I didn't really mind it.  And at least Ray defended himself by saying Debra should have noticed he wasn't getting it (as @CherryAmes said).  I liked how she said she was afraid that would upset Ray, and he said something about it being more upsetting to find out he's been doing it wrong all these years LOL.

3 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

Debra was a "good Catholic girl" who likely was raised not to talk about sex.

Although there was that time she asked Marie how often she & Frank have sex :)

3 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

They'd gotten into a rut

Exactly, and again, like real life.

[CherryAmes]

On 6/19/2018 at 1:27 PM, ByTor said:

Although there was that time she asked Marie how often she & Frank have sex :)

That always creeped me out!  I mean I do understand why she wanted to know since Marie and Frank were giving very different versions of their sex life but honestly!  Is this something you would ever really ask your in-laws?

[ByTor]

22 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

That always creeped me out!  I mean I do understand why she wanted to know since Marie and Frank were giving very different versions of their sex life but honestly!  Is this something you would ever really ask your in-laws?

This isn't something I'd ask anyone...especially in my family :)

[KLovestoShop]

I don't like any episode where Frank's homophobia is front and center.  And especially bad is when he says Jeffrey has homosexual tendencies.  I find that very off putting and I bet that kind of dialogue wouldn't happen today. 

[ByTor]

6 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

I don't like any episode where Frank's homophobia is front and center.  And especially bad is when he says Jeffrey has homosexual tendencies.  I find that very off putting and I bet that kind of dialogue wouldn't happen today. 

I actually think it would.  IMO Frank talks like that because he's supposed to be boorish & unaccepting.

[CherryAmes]

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

I actually think it would.  IMO Frank talks like that because he's supposed to be boorish & unaccepting.

Absolutely.  I think it's wonderful that so many of my parents generation (which would include Marie and Frank) have become so accepting of "the gays" as Marie would say but this is by no means a universal thing!  For that matter there is still a lot of intolerance among younger generations.  I would really dislike it if every character on every show was portrayed as enlightened and without prejudice.  It's just not real.  As long as their attitudes are questioned I'm good with it.

Edited July 10, 2018 by CherryAmes

[ByTor]

53 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

As long as their attitudes are questioned I'm good with it.

Right.  And it's not like Frank's intolerance was played in a way that it was supposed to be admired by the audience.  One of my favorite episodes, in fact, was the one where they were questioning if Robert is gay, it was nice to see Marie saying she'd accept him no matter what (and yeah, I love Marie saying she doesn't have a problem with "the gay people").  I also liked the "lovely" knick knacks in his apartment :)

[KLovestoShop]

18 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Right.  And it's not like Frank's intolerance was played in a way that it was supposed to be admired by the audience.  One of my favorite episodes, in fact, was the one where they were questioning if Robert is gay, it was nice to see Marie saying she'd accept him no matter what (and yeah, I love Marie saying she doesn't have a problem with "the gay people").  I also liked the "lovely" knick knacks in his apartment :)

I agree with what you say, but the attitude still makes me uncomfortable especially when it came to his comments about Jeffery's homosexual tendencies.  Frank started saying those things when Jeffrey was a toddler.  I don't mind so much when Frank was being his buffoon self and referring to adults, but I think the writing crossed the line with a young child.  Like in the episode shown last night when Ray and Debra were talking about Jeffery being left behind in pre-school, Ray ridiculously brought up the whole "My dad thinks he has homosexual tendencies" to the teacher.  That brought nothing to the storyline.  

[ByTor]

7 minutes ago, KLovestoShop said:

I agree with what you say, but the attitude still makes me uncomfortable especially when it came to his comments about Jeffery's homosexual tendencies.

I agree, what is funny to some can be awkward for others. For example, I am uncomfortable with Debra shoving Ray into a bookcase because she's having her "ladies days", yet most people have no issue with it.

[Guest]

I think we were supposed to see Frank as wrong but it was also played for laughs.