Some People Are Indifferent To Raymond: Your Least Favorite Moments

[CherryAmes]

1 hour ago, Homily said:

It was pretty dumb though, they had it that Debra was driving kids to a field trip but she makes some comment like "I have to leave now I have ten kids waiting for me" - how big was their car???

I always wondered about that too.  I thought maybe I misunderstood and she was just meant to be on the bus with the kids but I saw this episode again recently and they very clearly have Debra say she is driving kids on a field trip so unless the Barone's have a mini-bus they never mention again the writers really slipped up there!

[readster]

8 hours ago, tribeca said:

The one where Ray had am important interview the owner of the Yankees.   I hate that one.  It was important for his job.   I cant remember now why Debra could not take one of the sons. 

I agree, I mean it as part of his job and it was a hard interview to get. However, Debra had to see it as: "Your job isn't that important and I don't want to help you. So screw you!" 

[CherryAmes]

Ray gets no sympathy from me there.  He was easily able to do the interview over the phone from home and the only reason it didn't work out is because he's an idiot.  He should have made sure Michael was settled doing something quiet in another room before he even made that call.  Michael wasn't 4 yrs old he was more than old enough to be parked in front of the TV with a bowl of cereal and told to stay out of the kitchen for ten minutes.  Of course there are no laughs when they show someone actually being sensible and planning ahead but in any case Ray could do his job from home if it didn't work it was no one's fault but his own.

[ByTor]

21 hours ago, tribeca said:

The one where Ray had am important interview the owner of the Yankees.   I hate that one.  It was important for his job.   I cant remember now why Debra could not take one of the sons. 

I thought this comment was talking about the one where the twins were sick & Ray ended up interviewing not Steinbrenner but Terry Bradshaw in the pediatrician's waiting room.  Debra, Frank, Marie, and Robert were all home, it made no sense why none of them could have taken the kids to the doctor.

[CherryAmes]

In that episode Debra was sick as well and I don't think it's up to grandparents to take children to the doctor when a parent is right there and able to do it.   For that matter at the end of the episode Bradshaw wants to meet Ray again and Ray has to be encouraged by Debra to go ahead and meet him.  All for another book we never hear about again.  Poor Ray lucky he has his column.

[BlossomCulp]

21 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

 All for another book we never hear about again.  Poor Ray lucky he has his column.

I'm glad someone else has noticed this!  How many books does Ray talk about writing in the course of the series that come to nothing?  At least 3 by my count.  I wonder if the writers were trying to tell us that Ray was not quite the success everyone thinks he is.

[ByTor]

51 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

In that episode Debra was sick as well and I don't think it's up to grandparents to take children to the doctor when a parent is right there and able to do it.   For that matter at the end of the episode Bradshaw wants to meet Ray again and Ray has to be encouraged by Debra to go ahead and meet him.  All for another book we never hear about again.  Poor Ray lucky he has his column.

I don't remember Debra being sick in that episode.  In this case, though, Ray did have something to do, a newspaper columnist having a scheduled interview is his/her job.  If Debra actually was sick, there's no reason for the grandparents to not take them to the doctor.  I know Terry Bradshaw being interviewed in that waiting room was "supposed to" be funny, but IMO it was too far out of the realm of reality for that to happen.  

[BlossomCulp]

Debra is sick first in that episode and Ray has to stay home and look after the kids.  Leaving aside taking kids to the doctor I did always wonder why Ray had to stay home when Marie was right there.  She was looking after Debra and the kids.  The only thing Ray seemed to do was to take the two sick kids to the doctor - and he managed to take the wrong twin.  I agree the episode was very contrived.

[CherryAmes]

Don't forget at the end of the episode he has also tried to give the kids their medicine as it's all over his shirt.  

 

9 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I know Terry Bradshaw being interviewed in that waiting room was "supposed to" be funny, but IMO it was too far out of the realm of reality for that to happen.  

I remember reading somewhere that Ray Romano and Phil Rosenthal were not happy with the way a sports celebrity was shoehorned into almost every episode in the first season.  Usually it was in the opening and not really related to the rest of the show but even with this one where the celebrity gets more than a few lines you can tell the writers didn't have their heart in it!

Edited August 14, 2016 by CherryAmes

[ByTor]

Interesting.  I didn't like the use of the athletes either...we know Ray is a sportswriter, we didn't need reminders!

[Guest]

On August 13, 2016 at 1:55 PM, CherryAmes said:

I always wondered about that too.  I thought maybe I misunderstood and she was just meant to be on the bus with the kids but I saw this episode again recently and they very clearly have Debra say she is driving kids on a field trip so unless the Barone's have a mini-bus they never mention again the writers really slipped up there!

Debra was always prone to exaggerating to make her life sound harder than it was, so I took this to mean 2-3 kids. Maybe only Allie. 

[Homily]

18 hours ago, ByTor said:

Interesting.  I didn't like the use of the athletes either...we know Ray is a sportswriter, we didn't need reminders!

The worst example of that was when they had (I think) Tommy Lasorda at Ray's house sampling Ray's spaghetti sauce.  It was just silly - and of course it's the first and last time we ever see Ray cooking anything - well there was the time he tried to make a tuna sandwich "oh my GOD tuna juice"!

[ByTor]

8 minutes ago, Homily said:

there was the time he tried to make a tuna sandwich "oh my GOD tuna juice"!

HUGE tuna salad fan here & I can't open a tuna can without thinking of this line :)

[schnauzergirl]

Has anybody else every wondered what Ray's salary might have been?  I have no idea what sports columnists for a NY paper might make.  Other than the one episode where Ray messed up the checkbook and one or two references about saving for college tuition, money didn't seem to be an issue.  In fact, every time I see the episode where they write a $1000 check to help out Robert, I wonder how many people could do that without seeming to bat an eye.  

[Inquisitionist]

From what I recall, Romano and Rosenthal made Ray Barone a sports writer because they didn't want to make him a stand-up comic.  But I doubt they were ever shooting for realism on the career front.  Everything was more or less an excuse for the dynamic of being an adult with intrusive parents.

[Homily]

I remember on the old TWOP board the discussion of Ray's salary came up and someone linked to an article that listed average salaries for certain professions.  IIRC Ray's salary as a columnist was assumed to be decent but by no means a salary that would make him wealthy.  What always bothered me was the assumption on the part of the writers that Ray was rich and Robert was poor.  As a lieutenant in the NYPD Robert was not making peanuts and then when he married someone who had to be earning a fairly good salary herself it seemed to me that between Robert and Amy they were making more than Ray who was the sole breadwinner in his family.  It was like though the writers assumed Ray the newspaper columnist was making the same kind of money as Ray the big time TV star!

[ByTor]

I found this http://work.chron.com/much-money-sportswriters-make-year-24715.html, which says (for what it's worth)

 "According to SimplyHired.com, the average annual salary for a sportswriter in 2013 is $49,000. Some of the factors that affect salary in the field of sports writing include location, industry, popularity and experience."

[Homily]

According to several sites I just checked the average salary of an NYPD police lieutentant is $102k per annum.  Even assuming Robert makes less than that he has 20 years experience so it's close.  Ray may have been making more than the average sportswriter but we're never given any reason to believe he's making a lot more.  It's not like he was a syndicated columnist and as we've touched on he never did write or publish any of those books he worked on.  At best he's making what Robert is making.  No way is he making so much more that Robert is a pauper by comparison!  Which is what it always seemed like whenever talk about their relative financial situations might be.

[Inquisitionist]

Good thing this series wasn't a documentary.  ;-)

Edited August 22, 2016 by Inquisitionist

[Homily]

Oh sure I agree it's a sitcom and we all need to accept that but it was a sitcom based on the real life of its star and it was s sitcom where one of the main characters had a very visible kind of job where most people would know that a senior member of the NY police department would never be reduced to eating baloney pie "like an animal"!

Edited August 18, 2016 by Homily

[ByTor]

I always gag at the thought of him dipping the baloney in his orange juice...blech!

Edited August 18, 2016 by ByTor

[CherryAmes]

On 8/18/2016 at 9:04 AM, Inquisitionist said:

 

Gee, good thing this series wasn't a documentary.  ;-)

 

If it were Ray and Debra would have been California bound years ago!  I get your point and I agree with you but the relative incomes of Ray and Robert have long been a sore point for me and I guess for a few other people too :).  It just never made sense that they always acted like Robert was struggling to get by on an inadequate income (well except in the episode where Ray needs to borrow $3000).  I could accept Ray making more money than the average sports writer and that was ok but making it seem like he was Richie Rich and Robert was, hmmm, Poorie Mcpoorerson?  just grates.

Edited August 19, 2016 by CherryAmes

[ShadowSixx]

I didn't like the "Sex Talk" episode. I just found it weird that Ray/Debra & Frank/Marie would care about each other's sex lives. Well Ray was creeped out by it. What really bothered me the most is when Ray was watching t.v. in the bedroom and Debra started kissing Ray and rubbing his chest and Ray is unresponsive to it. Since he wasn't in the mood to have sex Debra automatically says that Ray's sex drive is diminishing. WTF?? Really Debra?? As many times as Ray tries to have sex only to be rejected for the most part. For me Debra didn't want to have sex with Ray cause she wanted to be intimate with him, she only did it because of her talk with Marie about Marie & Frank's sex life.

The "Counseling" episode, Debra only wanted to go to counseling because Bernie & Linda went to counseling. It's not like she sat with Ray and said to him that she feels they need counseling because they're going through major hurdles and obstacles in their marriage. Their marriage has always been the same Ray goofs up, Debra gets upset, they bicker, Ray has to fix it, the end. 

[Guest]

I just watched The Surprise Party and Robert's behavior just ruins it. There was no reason for him to announce that Debra knew about the party other than to be petty.

[CherryAmes]

I can't watch that episode!  Robert's behavior there is just like the time he had to tell Debra he was the one who suggested To Kill a Mockingbird as a gift idea and the time he overheard Amy telling Ray that Debra was upset that he had forgotten to mention her in the speech he gave.  He couldn't wait to tell everyone even though the person he was hurting the most was Debra.  Anything to get Ray in trouble.  And as far as I can remember he never gets called out on this behavior of his.

[Maharincess]

I hate any Marie scene. I HATED that character so much that I can't watch most episodes. I know she's fictional but I wish somebody had told her the hell off once and for all.   I liked Doris Roberts but Marie made the show hard to watch for me. The emotional blackmail was just too much.  

I can't watch the episode with Robert and Amy's wedding because I want to climb through the TV and slap the shit out of Marie.  

I didn't care for Amy either.  Her dopey facial expressions were awful. 

[Pippin]

I'm watching the 3 part episode where Debra and Marie have the spat because, well, Marie is her usual obnoxious self -- she interrupts Debra while Debra is trying to get the twins upstairs for their bath in order to show off their "knock knock" joke and be super grandma (and my god don't those kids need a good swift kick in the ass; what lousy disciplinarians both Debra and Ray are and it's not funny, not one damned bit) -- and they're not speaking, and no one is particularly appealing, but Ray comes off as spectacularly unappealing.  What a wimpy, whiny, spineless, chickensh*t mama's boy!  He can't support his wife and he literally whines and moans like a two-year old when she says she's had enough.  I would have banned Marie from my house a long time ago but that's another story.

Another thing that bothers me is the misogyny, overt or otherwise, that is displayed in this and several other episodes.  Robert is berated for showing emotional maturity and called a "girl" (being a girl is an excellent thing, I know as I am one) and "the broads" are often insulted and their point of view belittled.  

Maybe I'm just too old and cranky but it seems to me the show doesn't age well.  Then again, a lot of so-called sitcom writers derive their "humour" from women-bashing (Chuck Lorre, I'm lookin' at you) so maybe I shouldn't be so hard on ELR.

[CherryAmes]

What bothered me most about that whole storyline was the way they made it seem like Debra and Marie were equally at fault.  And how later in the series Ray throws that fight up in Debra's face as a way of showing how unreasonable she could be.  So not true!  Debra maybe could have been a little nicer given that Marie had friends standing there and honestly do kids that age really take baths in the afternoon anyway???? but totally aside from that the fight was completely and totally Marie's fault.  Not just the fight of course but the nasty way she treated Debra before they stopped speaking.  Debra drew a line in the sand and only Ray would think that was unreasonable behavior!

[readster]

The twins needing a bath in the afternoon, no one aware that Michael called his teacher "mommy" or how a set of 4 year olds magically found a cookie container at the bottom of a trash can and then decided to kick it around like a toy. I mean there were so many times when the twins were part of a main story plot, they made it ridiculous. I mean I can get the teacher situation, but how no one knew what was going on or how Michael all of a sudden didn't want to go to school one day to the point he is grasping at his bed. It was like they wanted to paint both Debrah, Ray and Marie's parenting skills like they were drug addicts on government aide looping the system. 

[ByTor]

10 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

the fight was completely and totally Marie's fault.  Not just the fight of course but the nasty way she treated Debra before they stopped speaking.  Debra drew a line in the sand and only Ray would think that was unreasonable behavior!

Debra even tried to be the bigger person in that flashback episode (loved Father Hubley coming over for the lasagna!), but then Marie went into a snit over the fact that Ray & Debra had sex the night the nosy Barones tried to stop them.

[qtpye]

On 12/31/2016 at 11:19 PM, Maharincess said:

I hate any Marie scene. I HATED that character so much that I can't watch most episodes. I know she's fictional but I wish somebody had told her the hell off once and for all.   I liked Doris Roberts but Marie made the show hard to watch for me. The emotional blackmail was just too much.  

I can't watch the episode with Robert and Amy's wedding because I want to climb through the TV and slap the shit out of Marie.  

I didn't care for Amy either.  Her dopey facial expressions were awful. 

 

On 1/5/2017 at 9:55 PM, Pippin said:

Another thing that bothers me is the misogyny, overt or otherwise, that is displayed in this and several other episodes.  Robert is berated for showing emotional maturity and called a "girl" (being a girl is an excellent thing, I know as I am one) and "the broads" are often insulted and their point of view belittled.  

Good Lord, this show was not very progressive in it's humor.  It can be summed up as "bitches be crazy" and men get into all sorts of funny situations trying to work around that.

Marie was bearable in the early seasons, but by the end of the show, she was horrible and her behavior made no sense.

Also, sometimes the show made it seem like we do do not have eyes.  I remember in the episode where Ray's finds out Robert is considered handsome.  Marie said the Robert looks like her and Ray looks like Frank...on what planet?  The show was well cast, but none of the ensemble really looked like family, with the exception of Ray and Robert having similar coloring (before Ray Romano turned orange).  It really was stupid line to put into the episode and not needed.  Heck, there are plenty of jokes about the twins and Ally not looking like anyone else (and it goes beyond them being blond).

[BlossomCulp]

On 1/6/2017 at 10:01 AM, ByTor said:

Debra even tried to be the bigger person in that flashback episode (loved Father Hubley coming over for the lasagna!), but then Marie went into a snit over the fact that Ray & Debra had sex the night the nosy Barones tried to stop them.

This is on my list of episodes I won't rewatch.  I mean I'll put up with a lot for Father Hubley (I was told there would be lasagna) but the whole premise of this episode makes my skin crawl and then the way Marie treats Debra at the end just gets me furious.  I don't watch sitcoms for my skin to crawl and to get furious!!!

[ByTor]

53 minutes ago, BlossomCulp said:

I don't watch sitcoms for my skin to crawl and to get furious!!!

When I get furious at this show, I tell myself this is pretend, there's a laugh track for heaven's sake, but I can't help it!  I ONLY rewatch this episode for Father Hubley :)  W

While I'm complaining, I hate when they do a flashback & Robert always has to have a stupid pornstache.

Edited January 12, 2017 by ByTor

[BlossomCulp]

Speaking of flashbacks and skin crawling, the other flashback I really don't like is the one where Debra is pregnant with Allie.  It just creeps me out that Robert is in the backseat with Debra when she thinks she's about to give birth.  Ick factor is ratcheted because we know he's always had a bit of unrequited lust/love for Debra.

[ByTor]

The one thing I do like about that episode is when they cut to the traffic on the bridge.  The way Debra flung her legs up getting ready to give birth in the car made it look like she skipped underwear that day.

[BlossomCulp]

On 6/28/2014 at 9:14 PM, CherryAmes said:

 

Just watched the hackido episode.  Overall an episode I like (especially the scene with Paul Reubens) but I really hate the idea that Ray was in the wrong for undoing the original trade that Allie made.  Allie was actually taking advantage of Parker's little boy even if the reason she was doing it had nothing to do with the monetary value of the card.  Debra expecting Ray to go back to Parker and get the original trade reinstated was just dumb.  I get they needed to set things up to introduce the whole scene with Amy's brother and have Ray do something fatherly for Allie but sheesh.  Would any parent actually go to another parent and intervene like that - and the two men getting into a "no givesies backsies " argument?  I mean c'mon!

 

This episode was on last night and I felt the same way.  I never really thought about it before, just enjoyed the comedy - it's one of the favourite episodes - but honestly Allie may have only wanted that card because she loved scramisaur but what parent is going to let their child trade away a card worth that kind of money?  Parker wasn't in the wrong here even if they twist it later to make him look bad.  And don't get me started on Debra expecting Ray to go back and undo the undo!  Good grief I know how I'd react if some parent showed up at my door thinking that was at all appropriate behavior.

[readster]

I completely agree. Also, when Paul Rubens originally played Amy's brother. His set up and everything was a concerned brother who hated how Robert saw everything with Amy. When they recasted him with Chris Elliot, they turned him into this man child who didn't know how to act or be a grown up. Not to mention run a business. Ray and Debra came out looking like idiots because any parents who did this would have had the door slammed on their faces or the police called. Taking a personal experience, I was a regular player of YuGiOh in the day and I got a super rare card, and was worth money. But they banned the card from US play and it went from $2,500 to be barely worth $10. So I traded the card during a tournament and the guy didn't know it was banned. He got it for free, but was upset later he could only play it at home and not main game tournaments. I got a good card from him, but he had it extra and the limit was only so many of that card. Yet, did he come tracking me down and wanting it back? No, we were adults and acted like it. 

[tribeca]

When I was a nanny one of the kids traded his iPod for a card.   Girls mom called right away to do that trade LOL. 

    Really do love raymond.  All the characters made my laugh.   The episode I really didn't like was Amy's shower.  Did not find Debra and Marie arguing funny.  Cringed when they all showed up at the court.  Do like Roberts reaction of seeing Debra behind bars.  

[readster]

On 1/24/2017 at 8:30 PM, tribeca said:

When I was a nanny one of the kids traded his iPod for a card.   Girls mom called right away to do that trade LOL. 

    Really do love raymond.  All the characters made my laugh.   The episode I really didn't like was Amy's shower.  Did not find Debra and Marie arguing funny.  Cringed when they all showed up at the court.  Do like Roberts reaction of seeing Debra behind bars.  

The problem also was when the officer found Debra in the car the way she was. I don't know about taking them off to jail, but I think my next question would have been: "Can I call someone like your husband or sister?" Least then it would have made more sense, because the scene in the courtroom, especially with the judge asking why she didn't let Marie drive her home and then see why. It was just too much. 

[BlossomCulp]

My nephew was charged with DUI in a situation similar to Deb's.  He'd pulled over when he realized he really shouldn't be driving and fell asleep while waiting for a friend to come.  The officer rightly pointed out that even though he wasn't driving right now he had been.  I don't know if a good lawyer could have got him off on a technicality but he didn't pursue it.  As far as I remember he was allowed to call whoever he wanted (just as Debra did try to call Ray) but he was still charged.  I don't think he spent any time in a cell though.  But that may have been because his friends arrived and he got released to them.

[ByTor]

I was on a jury for something similar.  I don't think the defendant was asleep behind the wheel, but he was intoxicated and in the drivers seat.  He swore he didn't drive, but did admit to being in the drivers seat.  According to Pennsylvania law, the act of being behind the wheel of a vehicle while intoxicated constitutes a DUI.  So, even though, like Debra, there was no "D", we did have to find him guilty.

Edited January 26, 2017 by ByTor

[Gemma Violet]

On 12/31/2016 at 10:19 PM, Maharincess said:

I didn't care for Amy either.  Her dopey facial expressions were awful. 

I didn't like her either.  Or maybe I just didn't like the actress.  I had always wondered why they hired her to play the part since she didn't seem to fit in.  It all made sense when I found out she was married to the show's Executive Producer.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Gemma Violet

[BlossomCulp]

I feel quite differently!  I loved Amy and thought she made a great addition to the cast.  It was also interesting to see how she slowly began to realize what being part of the Barone family actually meant!  She went from thinking Marie was the greatest woman ever to asking where Deb hid the after Marie liquer!

[readster]

1 minute ago, BlossomCulp said:

I feel quite differently!  I loved Amy and thought she made a great addition to the cast.  It was also interesting to see how she slowly began to realize what being part of the Barone family actually meant!  She went from thinking Marie was the greatest woman ever to asking where Deb hid the after Marie liquer!

I know, enjoyed that. Similar to when they met an old employee who worked with Frank during his old accounting days who saw Frank as a mentor and a great man because he told him to get off his ass and work. Which made everyone including Marie go: "Really?" 

[tribeca]

Watching Raymond right now.   The episode on is the one that Ray goes to a party to find out why some guy doesn't like him.  Don't enjoy that one to much. 

   I grew to love amy but did not think she fit in right away.   I did however want them to have a child.  The last show was hoping they would decide to adopt.  

[BlossomCulp]

I always found it funny that Amy and Robert talked about having kids but didn't seem to be in any hurry to actually have any given that Amy had to be 40ish and Robert was pushing 50 by the time the series came to an end.  Even Marie didn't push them to have a baby because time was running out yet in an early episode when Debra must have been only in her early 30s she kept harping on how "we aren't getting any younger, dear" when she was urging Debra to have another baby.

[ByTor]

Well, there was that episode where Marie was supplying Robert & Amy with wine & Barry White, so I do think she pushed it a little bit :)

[BlossomCulp]

I love that episode!  But if Marie harped on having a baby because of Amy and Robert's age I don't remember it!  I wonder if that was intentional on the writers parts or if they just didn't think about it.  But honestly Robert was almost 50 if they weren't going to have a baby then, when were they?  When all the ducks were in a row I guess :).

[ByTor]

58 minutes ago, BlossomCulp said:

I love that episode!  But if Marie harped on having a baby because of Amy and Robert's age I don't remember it!  I wonder if that was intentional on the writers parts or if they just didn't think about it.  But honestly Robert was almost 50 if they weren't going to have a baby then, when were they?  When all the ducks were in a row I guess :).

To my recollection Marie didn't harp on it because of their age, I think she just likes being a grandma!  I always assumed that Amy was closer to Debra's age than Robert's since Debra and Amy were friends.  Not that they couldn't have been friends if Amy were older, but it was just an assumption I always made.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BlossomCulp said:

I love that episode!  But if Marie harped on having a baby because of Amy and Robert's age I don't remember it!  I wonder if that was intentional on the writers parts or if they just didn't think about it.  But honestly Robert was almost 50 if they weren't going to have a baby then, when were they?  When all the ducks were in a row I guess :).

That always bugged me about that episode.  I can understand wanting to wait til the time is right, but at some point, you have to make a decision.  If they had at least included a couple lines about their age, it would have felt more natural, I think.