S03.E02: The Weddings

[Snarklepuss]

Yes, I have read the baby board plus many other sources on Cilona - Most of his defense of how they choose the couples is based on psychological and personality self-reporting inventories which he acts like are the pinnacle of scientific accuracy, when most of them are just NOT.  Several of those tests are not even accepted by much of the psychological community because they are just not all that accurate nor "scientific".  What he is saying about them is just a lot of bull crap and mumbo jumbo if you ask me, and yes, I know something about those inventories because they were my specialty in graduate school.  As much as I'd like to put a lot of stock in them, they often get things wrong or miss big issues.  We went over this quite a bit last season on this board about how those tests are very flawed especially because they rely on the subject's self-knowledge/perception and correct interpretation of test questions, which can be very skewed an inaccurate.  And all the "validity testing" in the world won't prevent a person from being consistently deluded about their personality or their ethics or even lying about them.  If someone's convinced they're "outgoing" who is to argue with them?  They may actually be wrong!  Plus it's Cilona's opinion based on what he thinks makes the people suitable for matching and suitable for matching with a particular person based on those test results.  So it's extremely shaky at best, IMHO.  Even if the tests were 100% accurate, the results are only as good as his interpretation of them and how he thinks they make two people compatible.  That's extremely subjective and that's a HUGE part of it.  So him going on about how "scientific" the tests are is just a cover for his own inability to make a match, IMHO.

 

He may be doing the best he can, but if he is then why did they miss some big honking issues and incompatibilities last season that even the audience could see coming a mile away?  Is he that bad at it?  If the experts really did that much in depth research into the candidates they should have found those things.  He defended Sean up the wazoo but the guy was obviously a jerk.  Plus they matched him with someone very obviously all wrong for him.  Then he defended it by saying they were matched because they both had similar issues.  Similar issues don't necessarily make for a good relationship nor do opposite issues that supposedly "heal" each other - Especially when there were so many red flag incompatibilities right off the bat that would be deal breakers based on what the candidates asked for.  How blind could he be?  I think his and the other experts' explanations have been naive and simplistic at best, and show a lack of real understanding about what makes relationships work.  Can an outgoing person bring out a quiet personality?  Sure it happens, but a lot of the time it actually makes a quiet person shut down and want to be left alone.

 

To me it looks like they might be making some of the same mistakes this season.  Maybe not, but it's too soon to tell.  We'll see.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[qtpye]

Wouldn't it be cool if Dr. C just said, "Hey, we found three sets of the best looking people in the bunch (after actively recruiting the men, since the guys who applied were supposedly not attractive enough and too few) and hoped for the best.  It's the same way they get people for The Bachelor...our bad.

 

Some of the things he says are so ridiculous and I am not an expert like Snarklepuss.  Jessica, is a receptionist and just does modeling and acting on the side.  Uh, no...Jessica is an aspiring model/actress who works as a receptionist until she gets her big break (which is how she looked upon this show).

 

Also, the men had no interest in the experiment or the women, beyond one night stands.  All the men (season 2) were fame whores looking for a paycheck.  Heck, Sean did not even want to touch Davina after the wedding, because he realized she was very serious and he was not (though in all fairness Davina could be annoying).

 

The biggest disappointment was basement Ryan who seemed like such a nice guy.  The experts force poor Jacklyn at the reunion to accept a dinner date with him and then give no apologies when Ryan stands her up in real life, unnecessarily making poor Jacklyn endure even more humiliation.

 

We find out basement Ryan is a player with many girlfriends and he was just stringing Jacklyn along, with the help of these so called experts.

 

The sad thing is the experts have never held the men accountable for their actions and blame most of the failure on the women just not listening to their sage advice.

 

I can't help but think that surely this year will go better, but I am probably delusional.

Edited December 15, 2015 by qtpye

[Neurochick]

I think the experts do the best they can with what they are given.  I thought in season two the issue was they could not find enough men who wanted to participate.  

 

First they need to find people in a certain age group who wouldn't mind being filmed for TV.  Then of those people, they need to find "camera ready" looking people who aren't completely insane and who the network and/or producers approve of.  

 

I wonder how any matchmaker would fare given those restrictions.  

[Momof2boyz]

First they need to find people in a certain age group who wouldn't mind being filmed for TV.  Then of those people, they need to find "camera ready" looking people who aren't completely insane and who the network and/or producers approve of.  

Ha!  Not completely insane?  Sam?

[Snarklepuss]

I think the experts do the best they can with what they are given.  I thought in season two the issue was they could not find enough men who wanted to participate. 

 

If that's the case, then

 

a) Why don't they admit that instead of forcing down our throats how "carefully" they match these people and how "scientific" the methods are that they supposedly use to match them? and

 

b) Why don't they do the professional thing and decline to match them if they're compromising on the quality of the matches due to the small pool of candidates?  I think the paycheck is more important to them than whether they can make any really good matches.  If they can just "make do" and make such spectacularly bad matches that most people would have seen coming a mile away then what does that say about their professional ethics?  I'm sorry but just "making do" when you're marrying people is not good enough for people who are supposedly bound by such stringent codes of ethics.  They're full of shit about their stringent ethics, IMHO.

[crazychicken]

Dr C has stated more than once though that if the experts do not find matches that they believe will work than the show won't go ahead, do I believe that the producers stack the pool of participants presented to the experts and push them to rush the matches for sure. Originally season 2 was set to film in Feb/March but the production company pushed it up to Dec when the first season was a sucess.

From just random comments made by the experts while they had 20 thousand apply for this season they get presented with about 50 people and look in depth (test, interview etc) about 25. So really the chances of finding a better match for the participants could have been excluded by the producers for not being the right look for tv early on in the process.

Also editing makes a huge difference in the sneak peeks A&E seem to edit for doom and gloom while FIA has a more lighthearted feel, I much prefer the less dramatic edit.

[Neurochick]

b) Why don't they do the professional thing and decline to match them if they're compromising on the quality of the matches due to the small pool of candidates?  I think the paycheck is more important to them than whether they can make any really good matches.  If they can just "make do" and make such spectacularly bad matches that most people would have seen coming a mile away then what does that say about their professional ethics?  I'm sorry but just "making do" when you're marrying people is not good enough for people who are supposedly bound by such stringent codes of ethics.  They're full of shit about their stringent ethics, IMHO.

 

 

Then there would be no show.

 

The truth is, this is NOT a serious documentary, yes it's about marriage but it's a reality SHOW.  The key word is show.  If there's no drama, no conflict, no pretty people, the ratings will be in the toilet.

 

Now if this were a serious documentary, then that would be a different story.  There probably would be all types of people, with all types of weights and all types of looks.  To me, that would be more interesting but to a network, not so much.

[qtpye]

Then there would be no show.

 

The truth is, this is NOT a serious documentary, yes it's about marriage but it's a reality SHOW.  The key word is show.  If there's no drama, no conflict, no pretty people, the ratings will be in the toilet.

 

Now if this were a serious documentary, then that would be a different story.  There probably would be all types of people, with all types of weights and all types of looks.  To me, that would be more interesting but to a network, not so much.

 

 

And this is why when Dr. C proclaims from the roof tops that this is a serious scientific experiment, he opens himself up to scorn and ridicule.  It is a silly reality show, but their gimmick is awesome experts and an iron clad marriage that can only end with divorce.

 

I think one of the reasons Sean did not want to consummate the marriage with Davina, is that he was hoping for an annulment due to lack of consummation, when he realized he did not want to stay married to her, which was probably the first night after their wedding.  I have no idea if this would work, but Sean probably is someone who thinks he can easily out game the system.

 

Anyway, do not feel to badly for Dr. C...he can always go back to being a male model.

[Snarklepuss]

And this is why when Dr. C proclaims from the roof tops that this is a serious scientific experiment, he opens himself up to scorn and ridicule.  It is a silly reality show, but their gimmick is awesome experts and an iron clad marriage that can only end with divorce.

 

qtype, I think you're right on the money here - Dr. C. is trying to protect his professional reputation by pushing how "serious" and "scientific" this whole thing is.  If he did admit it was less than that he would also be admitting that he has compromised his professional ethics.  He doesn't want to admit that he is involved in some kind of low-class reality show gimmick, which is really what this show is. 

Dr C has stated more than once though that if the experts do not find matches that they believe will work than the show won't go ahead, do I believe that the producers stack the pool of participants presented to the experts and push them to rush the matches for sure. Originally season 2 was set to film in Feb/March but the production company pushed it up to Dec when the first season was a sucess.

 

I believe that like I believe there's a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.  He has to stick to the "we believed they were good matches" line to make that story consistent.  And who can argue with a belief?  Too bad I think it's total BS, just like his professional "ethics".

[crazychicken]

qtype, I think you're right on the money here - Dr. C. is trying to protect his professional reputation by pushing how "serious" and "scientific" this whole thing is.  If he did admit it was less than that he would also be admitting that he has compromised his professional ethics.  He doesn't want to admit that he is involved in some kind of low-class reality show gimmick, which is really what this show is. 

 

I believe that like I believe there's a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.  He has to stick to the "we believed they were good matches" line to make that story consistent.  And who can argue with a belief?  Too bad I think it's total BS, just like his professional "ethics".

 

I do not believe it either just to be clear, I fall firmly in the this is a trashy reality show not a documentary category like the experts proudly proclaim. I also do not get that it would go against the basis of the experiment to provide help for the couples and would ruin the whole premise of the show, there is a reason that these people are not married or in a serious relationship yet. If they were taught some marriage/communication/coping skills I think that the marriages would be more likely to survive. In an already stressful situation if the participants knew how to communicate effectively with their new spouses and had support of the other participants going through the process with them then I would imagine it would take some of the stress out of the situation. For me since it is a marriage I would like to see them get all the support they need to succeed or know that they did everything possible before filing for divorce because even though it is a reality show experiment it still has to suck to get a divorce especially with it being so public.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

Part of the problem is that what people think they want in a partner is not what they need.

 

Absolutely! How many of your female friends complain that they can never find a nice guy -- but they go looking for men in bars, etc, and accept dates from the wild ones (not the nice ones)! 

And, any time someone sets them up on a blind date with a really nice, financially stable, marriage-oriented man, they find him "boring" or say that they "just didn't have any chemistry"...

[Vinyasa]

I think one of the reasons Sean did not want to consummate the marriage with Davina, is that he was hoping for an annulment due to lack of consummation, when he realized he did not want to stay married to her, which was probably the first night after their wedding.  I have no idea if this would work, but Sean probably is someone who thinks he can easily out game the system.

 

Then he didn't read the contract that he signed very well. Divorce was the only way out.

 

As weird as he was, I just can't get into these Season 3 people.

[JenE4]

Tres leaving Vanessa at the alter...to get a corsage to propose to her...was all kinds of adorable! I just hope they don't end up like Davina and what's-his-name, the nurse, who also were instantly attracted to each other and couldn't stop kissing throughout the wedding and then quickly realized there wasn't any connection beyond the physical. So far, both Tres and Vanessa are sweet and seem like they have good heads on their shoulders and good intentions. And I don't mean this as an insult to single people, but I don't see why either of these two would "have" to resort to this show. I'm sure they each have suitors lining up around the block. But I guess being generally attractive doesn't mean you'll be dating the best mates, especially if superficial people are only interested in their looks.

Sam. Good lord. I get that some people joke around when nervous or as a defense mechanism, but that crossed the realm into wondering whether she's having some type of manic break. She was channeling Fozzy the Bear with her nonstop schtick--wocka wocka wocka! Neil was being good natured and playing along a bit, but he had to have been wondering whether she was mentally ill or having some type of aneurysm or something.

Ashley couldn't have been any more the opposite of Sam. Hello? Hello? Did she fall asleep? Just mentally checked out. She wouldn't even answer David at all! Poor guy was trying! She was just staring at him blankly, and he was like, "Blink twice if I should call 911."

I think they should have switched and paired Sam with David and Neil with Ashley. But, really, if they had SO many women applying, I really don't understand why they ended up choosing either one of these women. I think Ashley has some potential to just loosen up a bit. Yet, her "bachelorette party" leads me to think unlikely--especially interspersed with David's bachelor party. But I don't see Sam capable of wratcheting it down. At least Neil can "joke up" to her level a bit, but I think he has a project on his hands to bring her back down. David seems kind enough that I think he'll eventually break through Ashley's walls.

[Vinyasa]

Just watched the weddings again.

 

Vanessa is wearing the corsage on her left wrist  when they first held hands and she takes the vows  "before" Tres stops and walks away to get it. When he comes back there is nothing on her left wrist and he puts it on. Anyone else see this?

 

Don't  these production people check anything?

[coconutcookie]

Vanessa reminded me of Muriel in Muriel' s Wedding--the round face, hair on top of her head and a huge smile with her nose wrinkled up.

[ketose]

I look at MAFS as a show that's not about the effect of a scientifically arraigned marriage. I think it's about the effect of creating manufactured intimacy between two people who are thrown together on a reality show. There have been experiments where a man and a woman put together who share a secret will be more attracted to each other than two subjects who are just paired together.

 

So, take two people who don't outright offend each other. Add the social pressure of a wedding. Then immediately isolate them in a honeymoon. Make them co-habitate and integrate them into each other's social group. The accuracy of the matching probably has little to do with the effectiveness.

[ketose]

I think cognitive dissonance is what keeps these couples (esp. season 1) together.

I think The Bachelor does a good job of this ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misattribution_of_arousal with all the extreme sports they do while on the dates. The experts should include some of that on this show. But, I imagine that the filming of the show itself induces psychological stress, and there is probably a lot of misattribution of arousal on this show as well.

Thanks. I figured there was a term for it. I've heard it described once (TV show, I think) as a man and a woman on a blind date. No sparks, but as they walk home, they are mugged. The intensity of the incident creates this misattributed arousal.